Message to the Young and Broke: There's always the Military

[sixmile]

Think about it.

-Someone who regrets being too old to serve

[dflprincess]

1. Didn't Jefferson say that he hoped we would never become a

country where the youth sold their "blood for treasure"?

I've heard Thom Hartmann quote something to that effect.

[Jumping John]

2. Their is always suicide also. 30% of the troops returning commit this act. n/t

[sixmile]

5. Link please

That's quite a large number...

[MineralMan]

6. 30%? Really? Do you have a link for that, please?

Seems just a tad bit high to me, you know....

[Jumping John]

24. Here is a link:

"In Iraq the situation is no better. More soldiers have committed suicide during the past two years than have been killed in combat. In 2008, 30 percent of soldiers who committed suicide were on deployment. Another 35 percent committed suicide after returning from a tour of duty. Others committed suicide when they had to return to duty, such as the case of a decorated marine pilot who hanged himself one month before he was scheduled to return to Iraq."


http://readersupportednews.org/pm-section/21-21/3597-fake-wars-real-corpses-few-heroes

[pinboy3niner]

26. That doesn't mean what you think it means

[fishwax]

28. that's very different from what you posted in #2

[Jumping John]

31. So.... The military is more a detriment than an advantage to the poor and the hungry:

Politicians lie to us all the time. Cut me some slack please.


"CBS News claimed that the figures represented the first attempt to conduct a nationwide count of veteran suicides. The tally was reached by collating suicide data from individual states for both veterans and the general population from 1995.

The suicide rate among Americans as a whole was 8.9 per 100,000, but the level among veterans was at least 18.7. That figure rose to a minimum of 22.9 among veterans aged 20 to 24 – almost four times the nonveteran average for people of the same age.

A separate study published last week shows that US military veterans make up one in four homeless people in America, even though they represent just 11 per cent of the general adult population, and younger soldiers are already trickling into shelters and soup kitchens after completing tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The National Alliance to End Homelessness, based the findings of its report on numbers from Veterans Affairs and the Census Bureau. Data from 2005 estimated that 194,254 homeless people on any given night were veterans."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2873622.ece

[Cid_B]

45. I don't know if that is really a "shock"

Those veterans have all in one form or another put their life on the line and even if you shuffled paper at Baghram it is likely you saw something nasty.

Your average 20-24 year old stress level, in contrast, is down at the bottom of the scale.

"Oh no! My phone is 3 months out of date"

They are tough to compare...

[sakabatou]

3. 'Cept they won't take me

And like hell I'd fight in wars. I'm not going to fight for corporations.

[sixmile]

7. Would you fight for your country?

If not, what would you fight for?

BTW, many in the Military are not fighting.

[sakabatou]

10. I don't know...

But they wouldn't take me (disability).

[sixmile]

12. You clearly know how to use a computer

Don't you know that future wars will all be fought with computers? sarcasm

[sakabatou]

14. Ha ha very funny

:eyes:

[Obamanaut]

11. Ain't no US military fighting for the country. That hasn't happened for

a very long time.

Fighting for "Mom's apple pie and the girl back home" went away several bad wars ago.

[Xithras]

23. +1

I'd fight to defend my country.

I wouldn't fight to defend someone elses. Or some fatcats profits. Or to satisfy the whims of the political elite.

In other words, there'd better be troops massing to invade us.

[Arugula Latte]

32. Yep. I'm always surprised when some on DU still spout that myth.

Fighting for freedom? When did that happen? Yes, WWII. After that ... Vietnam? Iraq? Not so much.

[jwirr]

38. You are assuming that "fighting for your country" means what it used

to mean. Today the wars are for oil and more money for the multinational corporations not for the rights of the citizens. Today we get lied into wars one right after the other so some profiteer can make a buck off of it. Today we fight to rule the world and not to protect ourselves. I am sorry but the powers that be are very happy about the poor economic conditions and may even be prolonging them because they can use them to manipulate the unemployed into the military. I respect our troops but I do not respect our leaders.

[alarimer]

51. It's bullshit that they are "fighting for the country"

They are fighting for corporations and whatever bullshit reason our government dreams up to go kill some people somewhere we do not like.

But not "for the country" whatever the hell that is supposed to be. They are also not fighting for my rights or anyone else's rights, to quote yet another cliche about military service. My rights do not need defending.

[Donnachaidh]

4. They've been trying to lure kids into the military since the beginnings in Iraq.

Watch the ads run ad nauseum on Spike or Comedy Central late night. They need all the cannon fodder they can get - short of instituting a draft and having the rich kids forced into serving.

NO young person in this country should have to join the military to EAT. NONE of them.

[JoePhilly]

8. The point of keeping an underclass is to make sure ...

the infantry has lots of bodies.

This goes back to feudal times.

If you are not born a Noble, you can live in poverty, or you can go fight for the crown.

The kids of Nobles often fight too, but usually from the back.

[sixmile]

9. It's not a class thing

It's an economic and esteem thing.

The Military is huge with many non-combat opportunities especially for recent unemployed or underemployed college grads.

[pinboy3niner]

13. Google "poverty draft" nt

[sixmile]

15. What is a 'Google'?

Does it express agreement or disagreement with the topic of the OP?

[Obamanaut]

17. "Poverty draft" will rebut your statement about not being a class thing.

Are you familiar with the 'tiers' education criteria for enlisting? Many, if not most, of the people enlisting in tier 2, the largest group, will be cannon fodder. If not right away, then soon, unless everyone is withdrawn from the -istan countries, Iraq, Libya, etc.

[JoePhilly]

16. Economics = class

Roughly speaking.

There is a reason that GW Bush jumps to the front of the line for the National Guard.

Economic class matters.

[TBF]

54. What are you - a military recruiter?

It's obviously Obama's main jobs program, but this advertisement in the middle of DU is depressing. Not even a pretense anymore ...

[lynne]

18. Uh, think again. That's not the case right now -

- the economy is so bad that the military is flooded. I know as my son has been trying to get into the Navy for about six months now. Used to be that you'd be tested and then they'd give you options of jobs that you qualify for and you'd have a bit of a choice. He was told up front that this is no longer the case as they have so many qualifying candidates. They test you and then assign you to what's available and you take it no matter if you're skilled in it or interested in it or not.

My son did well in school, he's skilled, and he's gainfully employed. His father, grandfather, uncle are all Navy men and he's always wanted to join.

NO, we do not live in a depressed area without other options for young men and women. We are about 40 minutes outside of Washington, DC.

[Cid_B]

35. That's because it's the Navy...

Same for Air Force and Coast Guard...

Many folks who want to serve but don't want to hump a ruck or think they will have less of a chance of getting shot at have been pushing towards those branches and they are over saturated.

Tell him to check with an Army or Marine recruiter.

PS. My family was all Navy but I chose the Army... Let me know if I can help if you have other questions.

[UTUSN]

56. "tested... options ... choice"?!1 Not for me, it was all "poverty draft"

I had two years of college, which might have been a leg up on a pay grade and a Navy school for a trade, but the recruiter put me in as a high school graduate, then straight to Vietnam. This was in '67, and I had a student deferment, and my guess would be that they had "so many qualifying candidates."

[hack89]

19. They will find it harder to enlist than in the past

between a lousy education system and too many overweight kids, the rejection rate for people trying to join is surprisingly high. The military uses hard times like this to improve the quality of the forces by raising standards - with more potential enlistees, it is actually harder to get into the military now. A lack of a HS diploma is a non-starter. Many with a diploma still lack the education to get qualifying scores on the ASVAB. And those with decent test scores can't meet weight standards.

[ileus]

20. The military were you can always proudly serve your country.

[Xithras]

21. The military is turning people way left and right.

Too many want in.

[Obamanaut]

22. Have you always been "...too old to serve...", and if not, why didn't you? nt

[w8liftinglady]

25. here's a few hours of reading.

http://co.mcc.org/us/co/stories/militaryrecruitment.html

Join to serve- not because there are no other options.
(A member of a loooonnnnggg line of veterans)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Yup. That's why I spent 4 years doing absolutely nothing beneficial to anyone but the MIC.

Eat the apple and fuck the corps.

[DevonRex]

29. For any young folks who want to join, STUDY for the ASFAB.

Some of us ace standardized tests with no effort. Others need a little preparation. The better you do the quicker you'll get in and the more choices you'll have as far as MOS. And the more leverage you'll have in your contract.

[Cid_B]

36. Talked to one of my old team leaders who is on recruiting duty...

He just watched some kid get a 15 on the ASVAB on the practice test..... Sigh...

[DevonRex]

39. Dear lord. Poor kid has a lot of work to do.

[Cid_B]

46. Yeah, not so much...

The next day the kid gave up an undisclosed felony so it's not an issue.

[Arugula Latte]

30. You, too, can die for Corporate Profit!

Who wouldn't want to give their life for KBR?! What a noble cause!

[Arctic Dave]

33. Fuck that. Go to a trade school.

The military has done nothing but become the violent arm for the corporations to do global theft from other countries.


Honor, Country, God. All bullshit fairy tales to get you to shill for the MIC.

[Obamanaut]

34. Did this turn out the way you expected? Many don't agree with you. nt

[BOG PERSON]

37. Who Bears the Burden? Demographic Characteristics of U.S. Military Recruits Before and After 9/11

The household income of recruits generally matches the income distribution of the American population. There are slightly higher proportions of recruits from the middle class and slightly lower proportions from low-income brackets. However, the proportion of high-income recruits rose to a disproportionately high level after the war on ter­rorism began, as did the proportion of highly edu­cated enlistees. All of the demographic evidence that we analyzed contradicts the pro-draft case.

We found that recruits tend to come from mid­dle-class areas, with disproportionately fewer from low-income areas. Overall, the income dis­tribution of military enlistees is more similar to than different from the income distribution of the general population.

Income was compared on a household basis, not an individual basis, meaning that recruits? income was defined by their household of origin. This approach was used because youth are rarely pri­mary income earners, and many earn no income at all until after high school graduation. However, the household income of their area of origin does serve as a basis for assessing whether the military recruits come from disproportion­ately poor backgrounds.

...

The plain fact is that the income distribution of recruits is nearly identical to the income distribu­tion of the general population ages 18?24. Because we lack individualized household income data, our approach does not indicate whether or not the recruits came from the poorer households in their neighborhoods. Nevertheless, Chart 3 shows that the difference between the 1999 recruit distribution of ZCTA income and the population distribution is below a single percentage point for 19 of the 20 income brackets. Yet even these slight differences show a sub­tle pattern: Proportionally, both poorer and richer areas provide slightly fewer recruits, and middle-income areas provide slightly more.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2005/11/Who-Bears-the-Burden-Demographic-Characteristics-of-US-Military-Recruits-Before-and-After-9-11

[jwirr]

40. Is this from the heritage foundation. The rethug foundation? Or is

this from some other group calling themselves that.

[BOG PERSON]

43. the heritage foundation, as in the famous conservative think-tank

[pinboy3niner]

44. It's the Heritage Foundation

And by the same guy who wrote, "A Higher Minimum Wage Equals Less Economic Freedom."

[BOG PERSON]

49. that's some fine fact-checking, pinboy3niner

[spanone]

41. i remember the recruiter coming to my house when my son was in high school

high school.....she was not welcomed here.

[WinkyDink]

42. This isn't a newsflash.

[girl gone mad]

47. The young and broke should fight to get their own needs met here at home..

not submit their bodies and minds as cannon fodder for the same imperial aggression and corporate greed that has steadily destroyed their generation's quality of life.

[alarimer]

48. Yes because there is always a bogus war to conduct somewhere.

Fuck the military and fuck the Presidents (all of them) who use the military to protect corporate interests.

I hope the potential cannon fodder stays they hell OUT of the military. Let's make it next to impossible for them to lie to impressionable young people about the military.

[Wind Dancer]

50. Are you a recruiter?

I hardly think joining the military should be the solution to poverty in this country. We need to cut our over inflated defense spending.

Are you being serious or is this a joke thread?

[mailman82]

52. Why argue about a number!

It doesn't matter what the percentage is. They served their country, came Home and no one helped!I am a vet that thank God was given help for PTSD. I could have been a no. I still struggle 41 years later!

[MadHound]

53. Ah yes, let us narrow down the options for young people to the point where their only choice

Is to be cannon fodder in eternal, immoral, illegal wars fought for the enrichment of the MIC. What a fine moral choice that is.

How about we cut our military budget in half, provide some of that savings to go towards things like job programs for the young, or better yet, get free or low cost higher education. Nah, that makes too much sense.

[Puregonzo1188]

55. And you think this is a good thing?

Quite frankly I think we've become a pretty pathetic nation if the only job we have to offer poor people is to go off and kill other poor people.