"I just want to keep the money I work for."

[RooseveltTruman]

I just saw an old friend of mine tonight for the first time in over 18 months--we'll call him Pat. Pat's a cop, been a cop since '08. Another mutual friend was with us, John, and we got to discussing politics--John spoke disdainfully of how the dockworkers he works with happen to be conservative Republicans, to which Pat replied:

"You know why they're like that? Because they work hard for their money and they want to keep it."

This phrase--or a variation thereof ("I just want to keep the money I work for")--has been uttered by a NUMBER of conservatives I've known throughout my life (some grew out of it, some haven't). I'm sure that many of you have known conservatives or Republicans who fall back on that too.

My question is this: How do you usually respond to this? For me, I don't have a set response for it. I have some sort of set response or facts to bring up with about 99% of the other standard BS conservative lines, but I can never decide on a line of response for this.

How do you guys respond? And if you've never been confronted with this "logic," how WOULD you respond?

[bettyellen]

1. Obama lowered their taxes. Republicans lowered millionaires taxes.

[hobbit709]

2. Do they not want to pay for rent, food or bills either.

That's where the vast majority of most people's money that they work hard for goes.

[BoWanZi]

4. Huh? I know the meme you are speaking of, they want to keep the money they earn and...

...not have it pay for "welfare queens" and stuff like that. I know of repubs who use those same memes and I understand what they mean.

However I don't have any school aged kids anymore (haven't had any since 2008 or so) yet I don't mind paying taxes that pay for the schools in my town even though I no longer get any benefit from them.

[lonestarnot]

10. What the fuck? You find no benefit in an educated population?

[ejpoeta]

28. I believe you misunderstood what bowanzi was saying.

I believe the meaning was that even though bowanzi no longer has children attending the schools, s/he is glad to pay taxes to support the schools.

[BoWanZi]

43. Exactly. I no longer have school aged kids but I don't mind paying my fair share of school taxes

Same for welfare or whatever "entitlement" program that is out there that might benefit others besides me or my direct family.

[Gabi Hayes]

3. does he not realize that they're going after his PENsion, and whatever SS he'll

be collecting, as well as the medicare he's been paying for all the years he's been working?

[wickerwoman]

5. The government works hard to provide you with

cops, firemen, parks, school teachers, libraries, safe traffic flows, clean air, clean water, public transportation, safe food and medicine, cars with brakes that work, etc. and would like your support to help provide those things both for you and for your community."

Alternately,

"Move to Somalia and you can keep 100% of your paycheck."

[notesdev]

17. Also

SWAT Teams, Predator drones, black ops in more countries than you're cleared to know about, bailouts for criminal bankers, bailouts for other countries, automatic weapons for Mexican cartels, imprisonment of 4x as many citizens per capita as openly-admitted-totalitarian China, bridges to nowhere...

[wickerwoman]

21. Don't like those things?

Vote for politicians with different priorities. Or run yourself.

Not liking what government spends its money on isn't an excuse not to pay taxes leading to defunding of infrastructure and the social safety net.

[notesdev]

23. LOL

"Vote for politicians with different priorities."

Yeh, like that works. I voted for Mr. Nobel Peace Prize Winner and now he's doing his damnedest to get World War III going, bombing somebody new every few months.


"Not liking what government spends its money on isn't an excuse not to pay taxes leading to defunding of infrastructure and the social safety net."

What leads to the defunding of infrastructure is the diversion of the funds that should be going there into things like bombing people in at least five countries simultaneously. "Oops we wasted it, now pay up again" does not make people happy.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SammyWinstonJack]

65. +1

:thumbsup:

[MedicalAdmin]

61. I like this one. Good rational response which also hits the emotions.

[OHdem10]

6. What does he think about having schools, hospitals, roads

superhighways, how are businesses going to get
products to market, medicare, SS . Our grandparents
great, great grandparents started these things
realizing one person or one business cannot do
everything for himself or herself. Communities
towns cities in order to thrive need each of us
to make a contribution to benefit us all as a group.

It is amazing what some people think taxes are used for.

It does not help when they hear how the rich do
not pay their fair share or what is perceived to
be their fair share.

[MrDiaz]

29. that's infrastructure

which to them IS one of the Governments jobs.

[spanone]

47. and where is the gov supposed to get money to do that?

[lapislzi]

52. Who pays for that?

Since the wealthy aren't paying their fair share, who pays for that?

[w8liftinglady]

57. i guess the government will have a bake sale to pay for it

[some guy]

7. All of Pat's money comes from

other people paying taxes. If he's not willing to pay taxes, why should anyone else? If no one pays taxes, how's he going to earn a living.


eta - I usually just tell people, "Part of my tax dollars go to pay for streets, if you don't want to pay taxes, then keep the fuck off my streets."

[ClassWarrior]

8. "So do you pay for things or do you steal them?"

"Taxes are the cost of safe roads, and clean water, and garbage removal, and police protection, and representative government, and a million other things that government provides to us - rather cost efficiently, I might add. So if you don't pay your taxes, you're stealing those services from your fellow citizens."

NGU.

[raccoon]

41. "Garbage removal"--some people DO steal that!

In the apartment complex where I live, there are signs on the dumpsters that the dumpsters are for residents only.

Apparently, some people have been dumping their trash in our dumpsters.

Also, I know a woman who was renting and dumped her trash in other people's dumpsters. Her landlord didn't want to pay for trash pickup.

[stevedeshazer]

9. I'll bet they drive to work on public roads.

Who will pay for those?

If BS Conservative's house catches on fire, does he want to support the local fire department?

Does he support police? The military? The public power company?

Walk out on any street in any city or town in America. You will see some combination of power lines, signage, road maintenance, fire hydrants, water and sewer works, gas lines, and more.

These dimwits were born with these conveniences, so they think they won't ever have to pay for their maintenance or expansion.

This is a bunch of Libertarian nonsense.

There's a price to pay to live in a civilized society. It's called taxes.

There's a paradise on this Earth for people who think like this; I suggest they move there.

Somalia. No taxes. No regulation. No government.

That's how I roll with these types.

[RooseveltTruman]

16. All of these...

...Are great, and I've used them in other instances with different people. But with him, he'll swear up and down he's not opposed to the income tax. He'll just say he doesn't want it going to "people who won't work." He's smart enough to recognize what the the income tax does, but dumb enough to think that there are legions of people who love being on welfare and make a fantastic "living" with it. To his way of thinking, to be a conservative is to want to keep your money, pay in taxes for services that are necessary, and keep as much as possible from being "given" to the lazy poor. To be a liberal is to want to give "handouts" to the poor via higher taxes.

[ejpoeta]

26. as a 'lazy poor' person, it is not easy. and this guy better hope he never loses his job

or need assistance. or need to figure out how to survive on assistance because trust me.... it aint easy... nor for the 'lazy'.

[surrealAmerican]

37. Just like the rest of us ...

... he is one catastrophe away from being one of those "people who won't work". If, through some injury or illness, he were to lose his eyesight, for instance, where would his income come from?

[guitar man]

42. I'll tell you how I handle that scenario

I had to address it with an in-law that wouldn't shut up a while back. I just told her "you know, I don't much like welfare fraud either, but you seem to be really, really unhinged about it so I"ll tell you what, I'm going to pay you back what welfare fraud cost you last year, right here and now"

And with that I reached into my pocket and pulled out a nickel and two pennies and handed it to her. The look on her face was priceless. :D

[spanone]

48. he's flat out wrong. if he wants a 'perfect' gov't. good luck with that

[lapislzi]

55. Shit, I'd be happy with a FUNCTIONING government.

Loooove to see the fruits of my labor spent on bread and circuses.

/sarcasm

[ejpoeta]

24. they're probably the first ones to bitch about potholes. when are they going to fix the roads!

or if the power is out. i've been saying that myself. if you don't like taxes or regulation.... somalia has that.

[w8liftinglady]

62. I didn't know you knew my neighbors... the "small government ,pro-life" ones!

[ejpoeta]

66. oh yeah.... i think they have relatives up here. lol.

[lonestarnot]

11. Well you won't be keeping much of anything voting for richie rich. They're stealing from you

apparently faster than you can think. Old friend? Yeah I'd keep at least 18 months between seeing that again, 18 years would be even better.

[Ramulux]

12. Its incredibly simple

If he doesn't want to pay taxes he doesn't get to drive on public roads, call the police, call the fire department, use the post office, get medicare, get social security, have his children go to free public school or any number of other public services that we all use on a daily basis.

All you have to do is explain what taxes are and what they are used for.

[leftstreet]

13. Deliberately misunderstand: "Yeah, rich people shouldn't profit from our labor"

"We should keep more of the value of our labor. Rich people and corporations shouldn't suck so much profit off our hard work."

[TheMadMonk]

14. Roads, hospitals, schools, parks, SS, welfare, etc. /nt

[Maru Kitteh]

15. Who knows how long you'll be here, so I'm going to be straight up w/you. Your "friend" is a moran

Does your friend support the military?
Does your friend eat food?
Does your friend drive on roads?
Does your friend send mail?
Does your friend enjoy weather reports?
Does your friend deposit money in a bank?
Does your friend expect police to come when called?
Does your friend expect the fire department to come if his house is on fire?
Does your friend expect his prescriptions to be safe?
Does your friend think kids should be able to read and write?
Does your friend ever visit national parks?
Does your friend have anybody he gives a shit about on Social Security?
Does your friend know anybody who's disabled?
Does your friend have a million dollars saved up in case he gets sick and can't "work hard for his money" any more?

[DeadEyeDyck]

22. good list

saving

[jmowreader]

18. I just want to keep the shock absorbers I paid for...

and if I don't pay taxes to keep the roads nice and to hire police so someone won't steal my car, I won't be able to.

[Cerridwen]

19. Easy. Ask "Pat" about crabs in a bucket.

Then, point out to "Pat", that the government needs to shrink down to bathtub or uterus size.

When "Pat" gets laid off, tell "Pat" to "bite me."

Then, when "Pat" complains about "his" money, ask "him" where he went to school and why "he" didn't pay for it? Then ask "him" why "he" thinks "he" should have retirement, tax-payer-funded health care, and then...as "your old good friend 'Pat'" why "he" gets a pass on tax-payer funded ANYTHING?..

[TheWraith]

20. Then tell them they immediately need to stop using the public roads.

Also the public airwaves that carry their TV, radio, and cell phone signals. The public police, fire, and military services. They need to start buying unsubsidized food which hasn't been inspected for safety, and cars which they don't know won't catch fire and kill them and their family. The government regulations that say their employer needs to pay them a living wage, that their work environment has to be safe, and that they can't be fired because they're Catholic, or Jewish, or left-handed.

I could go on like that for awhile.

[Sherman A1]

25. I do as well and I want to get paid a fair day's wage for

a fair's day work, however that really hasn't been the case over these last 30 odd years as wages have stagnated for the masses and the upper 1% has taken home all the cash. It's not the workers or the poor that are the problem here, it's the folks that have benefitted over and over from the system being skewed against the working class.

[quaker bill]

30. my guess is that they also think

that the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines who defend this country should be paid. Most of the folks I have run into who think they are conservative, also think the military should be very well funded. Generally, what they object to is their money being "taken" and spent on "those people" (definitions of "those people" vary).

Usually, when you point out the truth that the vast bulk "their tax dollars" goes to things like defense, their parent's medicare, the police and law enforcement system, firemen, roads and such, stuff they don't argue with, they don't believe you.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. With a handle like RooseveltTruman?

[TBF]

34. Sometimes they are not very creative ... nt

[SmileyRose]

32. He's a COP !!! He works for the gubmint. HE GETS PAID WITH TAXES.

Twit.

[RayOfHope]

33. This. People don't pay taxes, he doesn't have a job. Realistically, he's probably seeing the effects

of his attitude at work already with shortages and funding cuts.

[TBF]

35. Unrec for right-wing drivel. nt

[JoePhilly]

36. Three things ...

1) Obama lowered your taxes. Taxes rates are lower now then they have been in over 50 years.

2) As a COP, our taxes pay your salary. I suppose they could lower our taxes more, and then pay YOU less.

3) The GOP wants to take away your Social Security and Medicare. And they don't want the police, fire fighters, teachers, dock workers, or anyone else to be able to negotiate for better benefits.

[mdmc]

38. there are some things that are hard to buy

police protection, road construction..

Everyone wants to keep their hard earned cash. Everyone wants something for free. If you want to see what no tax society looks like, look at third world Africa.

Our quality of life is found in our communities, society.. Not in ones pocketbook..

[FLPanhandle]

39. My response...

"So do I! That's why I want the multi-millionaires to pay their fair share too, otherwise my taxes or the deficit will just go up"

[maxrandb]

40. I point out that

"if previous generations had that attitude, this country would not exist. Everything America stands for and has accomplished has required us to sacrifice a little bit of ourselves. It's what made this country great! If our forebearers took that attitude, then the Civil War would have been lost, so too would WWI and WWII. You seem to think America was built on "selfishness". If you truly believe that, then I want no part of the country or government you wish to create. With your attitude, returning heroes from WWII would not have been able to attend college, our great highway systems, electric power grid, dams and aqueduct systems would not have been built. Electricity and communication lines would have never been brought to rural areas. Your grandmother and grandfather would have worked until they dropped dead, or ended up in debtor's prisons."

"That's nice and easy little piece of crap "talking point" you have there, BUT IT'S A LIE. The taxes we pay are the required sacrifice that we make to live in the greatest country in the world. I love my country enough to support it...WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?"

[lumberjack_jeff]

44. "Pat, if they kept the money they worked for, you wouldn't have a job"

"Further, since there aren't any cops, they would soon be working for a mafia boss."

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

46. Please enlighten us as to what YOU think the right tax brackets should be.

[w8liftinglady]

49. I pay 30% in taxes. That's all I ask for the Top 2%...who pay 16%

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

http://www.tax.com/taxcom/features.nsf/Articles/0DEC0EAA7E4D7A2B852576CD00714692?OpenDocument

facts suck,huh?

[lapislzi]

50. Well, I like roads and clean drinking water.

Feel free to opt out of society, grow your own food, generate solar energy, home school your kids, etc. Just don't come crying to me when you need to avail yourself of the benefits of a civilized world. You're on your own, libertarian-boy.

[spanone]

51. tell him to keep it. then let the government, thru the IRS, tell him differently.

he doesn't really mind paying taxes, just the ones who go to the people he doesn't care for

[CrispyQ]

67. You nailed it:

"he doesn't really mind paying taxes, just the ones who go to the people he doesn't care for"

This is the crux of it for everyone who claims to not want to pay taxes.

[Avant Guardian]

53. They want to freely use government services...

...but pay no taxes. All of this costs money, there is no free ride.

Ask your friend why he expects a free ride.

[w8liftinglady]

54. exactly... true "Closet Welfare Queens"

[LiberalAndProud]

56. That isn't the Republican agenda, unless he is very wealthy.

If it isn't clear by now that the Republican agenda is to take money out of the average Joe's pocket to put it in the pocket of very large political donors and lobbyists, it never will be.

Sure, we all use government goods and services. Sure we all should support them. But when mega corporations like GE and Boeing get tax credits for years running, and still scream for more tax cuts, the agenda is clear. Multinational corporations don't want to produce goods and services any more, because that would require a labor force, which costs money. It's much more efficient to take the money directly from the tax coffers for producing NOTHING. I truly believe that's the overreaching agenda.

[LanternWaste]

58. Taxation is part and parcel of the price we collectively pay...

Taxation is part and parcel of the price we collectively pay to live in a country with infrastructure, law enforcement, an effective military, and much more freedom to do as we please than a host of other countries. If he would rather not pay taxes, I imagine countries such as Bahrain, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates, and Saudi Arabia may take him in...

[Spider Jerusalem]

59. Ask him if he likes having highways to drive on.

And if he thinks the US needs a military. And if there should be public schools and libraries. And any of the thousand other things taxes pay for. Ask him where he thinks the money for those things comes from and where it should come from if not taxes.

[guitar man]

60. You can start by sending "Pat" this cartoon

He's a public employee, see if it manages to stir any meaningful thought in his propaganda soaked mind.

What they don't understand is, all the right wing propaganda they slurp up is financed by and on the behalf of maybe a few hundred people in this country of over 300 million. The billions they have spent on their propaganda networks and puppets nationwide is showing them a good ROI and it's only going to get better for them as long as "joe sixpack" keeps buying it and turning against the fellow Americans that really have his best interests at heart. Like it or not, 'ol Pat and Joe have much of what they have because of the struggles of liberals and progressives in this country over the last century or so. The middle class was brought to us via the labor movement.

The thing that always seems to get left out of the discussion on tax brackets and the uber wealthy is, the fact that the fattest cats OWN damn near everything. If you have a mortgage they own your house, if you have a car loan they own your car....they just get fatter and fatter all the time and there's no indication that they're going on a diet anytime soon. Make no mistake, people like the Koch Bros. and The Waltons and select others in their class are hell bent on having EVERYTHING and leaving the other 99.9% of us with NOTHING. The more they can keep us at each others throats, the more they win. It's really as simple as that.

"Pat's" enemy isn't somebody on government assistance, it's the pigs on corporate welfare...the only difference between him and us is, we know the difference.

[DFab420]

63. Explain to them the concept of fucking taxes...

seriously.

Try this.

"Do you like your water drinkable, your lights to turn on, and your roads drivable? You pay taxes so you can take part in this democratic society. If you don't want to pay taxes, please stop using our utilities and other federally provides resources."


Then call them a leech.

[readmoreoften]

64. A reasonable assertion. They should strike their bosses, who actually profit from their labor and

buy yachts. That's the first tax levied on them. Then they tax their paychecks and buy more yachts. They should fight their bosses and fight to have taxes go to services to make society better. If they want to fight against the exploitation of their labor, start with the bosses and then stand in solidarity with the rest of the exploited working class.

[txlibdem]

68. The wealthy actually DON'T work for their money -- but they want to keep all of it anyway

Anybody who actually works for a living should be picketing outside all the penthouses and mansions in their area, demanding their money back from the people who actually stole it.