What should happen to someone who robs a convenience store and kills the clerk?

[Skip Intro]

Poll question: What should happen to someone who robs a convenience store and kills the clerk?

Yes, this post is inspired by a true event.

[aikoaiko]

1. It depends on the circumstances.

[Skip Intro]

2. Please elaborate.

[aikoaiko]

5. I would need to know manner of death and whether or not there were mitigating circumstances.

I support having the death penalty as an option, but I'll always need to know the details of a case before supporting its application.

[Skip Intro]

6. As long as we're sure there are no circumstances that would allow such an act.

[aikoaiko]

7. I can't imagine a situation where a robber killing a clerk would be allowable.

[Skip Intro]

18. .

I understand. I didn't read your first reply clearly.

[MrSlayer]

3. Felonious murder while committing another felony.

Execution.

[Carolina]

84. I agree with you

[JI7]

4. i oppose the death penalty so life in prison

[sharesunited]

8. Look over here at a felony homicide.

Instead of at the gun and ammo which were available to the assailant as the result of a willful misinterpretation of my and your constitutional "rights" of all things.

What should happen is that the robbery doesn't occur in the first place.

However, in RKBA America, this preferred option (i.e. no robbery) is somehow both unattainable and unacceptable.

That's because guns and ammo in the hands of the public is more important than anything else.

Guns and ammo equal "liberty."

Or some such horseshit.

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. You're saying that this crime wouldn't have happened if my Constitution didn't guarantee me the

right to bear arms?

Interesting. Silly, but interesting nonetheless.

Crooks without guns would use knives, crowbars, or any other thing they could find to use as a weapon to overpower those less physically intimidating than themselves. Point to ONE COUNTRY that doesn't allow its citizens to possess guns and has a ZERO crime rate and your argument might hold water. Otherwise? Not so much.

[sharesunited]

14. You're digging yourself deeper

in horseshit.

"Robs a convenience store" and "kills the clerk" follow inevitably from access to a gun and ammo.

I'm trying to remember EVER seeing a story where these elements were the result of anything else.

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. Gee. Google says there are over ELEVEN MILLION hits using the string "robbery +knife"

You're kidding, right? NO robbery has ever taken place without a gun, and no victim of a robbery has ever lost their life because of another weapon such as a knife or blunt force weapon?

Kidding, right? PLEASE tell me you're kidding.

Want me to search for robbery +baseball bat and tell you how many hits THAT gets?

You're hilarious.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

29. Are you positing that a knife is not a deadly weapon?

All of these were VERY easily googled. Guns aren't the end-all-be-all of crime, death, and destruction... I suggest you quit shaking in your boots to go outside and live a little. You might even learn something (such as crime come about due to the choices and actions of bad people and not because of the existence of any particular weapon).

http://crime.about.com/od/deathrow/ig/Texas-Death-Row-Inmates/Michael-Riley.htm
Riley was convicted of the February 1986 robbery-slaying of 23-year-old Wynona Harris, a clerk at the Shop-a-Minit convenience store in Quitman. Harris was stabbed 31 times during the course of a robbery that netted $1,110. The money was later recovered from a pair of overalls worn by Riley.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1990-02-06/news/9002063271_1_wright-ganem-meant-to-kill
... David Lamar Wright guilty of hacking a convenience store clerk to death a year ago.

http://www.topix.com/forum/state/tx/TKK4B22HQV21FIS0G
A man who fatally stabbed a convenience store clerk during a robbery 23 years ago apologized repeatedly to her relatives and to his mother before he was executed Tuesday.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/25549393/detail.html (could have very easily been fatal/murder)
Police said a man entered the store and attacked the clerk with a knife. The clerk, identified as Domingo Fernades, received multiple wounds to his hands and neck while fighting the robber, police said.

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-07-09/news/mn-14365_1
A clerk in a subway token booth was stabbed to death Tuesday by a robber who stole $121 and escaped by jumping onto the tracks and running through the tunnel to another station, authorities said.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

67. It is possible to approximate any acute angle with right triangles with integer sides.

[petronius]

82. "Follow inevitably"? I have access to guns and ammo - are you saying I'm unavoidably

doomed to rob a store and kill the clerk? :shrug:

But if there were no guns and ammo, then robberies would never happen?

[EstimatedProphet]

93. When I think of all those convenience stores I've robbed and clerks I've killed...

I've had handguns for most of my adult life I had to have killed dozens of people by now, right? Since it's inevitable that having access to a gun means someone will rob a convenience store and kill the clerk and everything. I must have done it thousands of times.

[TexasObserver]

94. And cars with gasoline in them cause DUIs.

Your argument is completely lacking in logic.

Here's logic.

Find the total number of guns.

Compare that number to the number of guns used in crimes.

Draw from that data a number that represents the probability a gun will be used in a crime.



Access to a gun and ammo does NOT lead inevitably to robbing a convenience store and killing a clerk.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

42. "Would happen far less often", not "would never happen". N.T.

Gun control doesn't eliminate murder by any stretch of the imagination, but it can help reduce the frequency with which it occurs.

[sendero]

81. Those who would trade ..

... precious liberty for security deserve neither.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

83. A slogan, not an attempt at actual thought.

I am quite willing to give up my liberty to steal in exchange for increased (although not perfect) security against being stolen from.

Similarly, I am quite willing to give up my liberty to own guns in exchange for increased (although not perfect) security against being shot.

Your slogan is fine-sounding and high-minded and right more often than it is wrong, but it can't be used as a substitute for actually thinking about the rights and wrongs of an issue, which is what you appear to be trying to do.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

71. The Golden Ratio is defined as (sqrt(5)+1)/2.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

27. Who said anything about guns?

A robbery can be committed with nearly any deadly weapon - like a knife or crowbar/club.
The OP said nothing about guns... it only polls the punishment for a person convicted of robbery & murder.

[NuclearDem]

9. Life imprisonment

Possibility of parole if they really do turn their life around.

I can't support the death penalty at all.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. So hard to give an informed opinion not knowing all the circumstances of the crime...

I believe that there are things humans do that should negate their right to exist. Killing another human being during the committance of a crime when that person has done everything the robber demanded is one of those things. To me, that's killing for thrill. Thrill killers negate their right to live in my opinion.

[Lucian]

11. Life in prison.

I oppose the death penalty under any circumstances.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

12. Death.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

37. Why do you hate Massachusetts so much?

[CitizenLeft]

15. torn on the death penalty

I'm afraid that any murder that follows torture and/or rape - especially of a child - would put me strongly in the "death" category. An armed robbery... that makes me lean towards life in prison, with no parole.

However, if it was my 17-year-old child who was working the counter and was gunned down, I doubt I'd be so thoughtful about it.

[Behind the Aegis]

16. It depends on the circumstances.

[Skip Intro]

19. Please elaborate.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. How did it happen?

Did the robber walk in and kill the clerk or after the job was completed? Was the clerk killed in a struggle? Was it accidental? Was the perpetrator mentally sound?

[quinnox]

20. it depends on the particulars

the penalty should be harsh but how severe depends on different factors.

[Warren DeMontague]

21. I'm generally philosophically opposed to the DP, but I don't see any reason why that person should

ever be let out of prison.

Period.

Prison should be for violent people who hurt other people. That should be the primary function.

Unfortunately, we now have a system where the rapists and murderers are let out to make space for recreational drug users.

[old mark]

22. Death. The "circumstances" are generally simple - some asshole who wants money for whatever reason

robs a store, gets maybe a few hundred dollars at most, and kills some kid or old person for no reason...after getting the money.

Why do people have more positive feelings for the person who commits the crime than for the person who is working a lousey, scarey job..because they ALSO want the money, and choose to work honestly for it rather than steal and kill for it?

The people who do these crimes are NOT Robin Hoods, they are nasty, evil people.

mark

[emilyg]

32. +10

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

39. Why do you hate Maine so much?

[KansasVoter]

43. You a GOP troll?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

38. Why do you hate Wisconsin so much?

[Carolina]

85. totally agree

people who victimize and kill should not get three squares and a cot PLUS healthcare for life.

My sympathy is to the victim and his/her family.

[Anakin Skywalker]

25. Chop chop!

[undeterred]

28. Well, first of all they should be arrested.

And its shocking how often people get away with robbery of convenience stores. Yes, there are cameras running all the time, but the video quality is poor.

[NoPasaran]

30. Death, or transportation to Australia

[KamaAina]

69. Why do you hate Hawai'i so much?

Or Australia, for that matter? :shrug:

[adamuu]

31. wait, you're not on a jury at the moment, are you? n/t

[Ezlivin]

33. Chained to the floor and made to work as a convenience store clerk

Until he has paid suitable renumeration to the clerk's family. That could take a good 40-50 years.

[superduperfarleft]

34. This exercise in binary thinking brought to you by....

[tkmorris]

49. I don't understand why people keep doing this...

Viewing virtually anything as a black or white issue is almost always going to be wrong, and yet they persist in doing it time after time. I suppose it frees them from uncertainty but at what cost?

[superduperfarleft]

35. Nothing. He should be set freeeeee!

We should hug him and cuddle him and kiss him more and then he'll be a good person.

Is that what you wanted to hear?

[Bucky]

52. Well, if not him, at least someone should punish me that way.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. This HAS to be about some other DU thread. It is, isn't it? Link please, anybody? -nt

[devilgrrl]

40. Life in Prison - no parole

There's already a death penalty in Texas. Many of the executed killed grocery clerks and slimy punks still do despite having the chair to think about as a consequence.

Let them rot behind bars... why do them a service by ending their miserable lives?

[KansasVoter]

41. If you voted "Death" you are as stupid as the GOP right wing idiots who think......

the death penalty is a deterrent. Unbelievable.

[Llewlladdwr]

44. Execution would certainly stop our hypothetical robber from killing again. NT

[tkmorris]

47. It would stop people from speeding too

[KansasVoter]

53. LOL....+1

[KansasVoter]

54. Wow, you are scary! And about one person a year is removed from Death Row for mistakes! Happy?

[spanone]

56. murder is murder is murder.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

63. Why do you hate North Dakota so much?

[Carolina]

87. it can certainly deter one person

because s/he won't be alive to repeat the crime. Ted Bundy, the escape artist, was able to kill the sorority girls in Florida because he had escaped from prison. His execution was likely no deterent to other sociopaths BUT he will never kill again!

Those who favor the death penalty are not necessarily thinking that the penalty deters others. Rather, it is punishment for the crime(s) committed.

[Upton]

91. Who cares if it's a deterent or not..

the way I see it....you intentionally take a life, you forfeit your own..

[Iggo]

45. Prison.

[Taverner]

46. Prison for Life

Even if we are 100% certain of someone's guilt - there should be no death penalty.

Besides, don't you think lethal injection for someone who does that as kind of the easy way out? They just go to sleep and never wake up. Whereas 50-75 years in solitary seems like a punishment that fits the crime.

[Vickers]

48. Make 'em work at a convenience store for the rest of their life.

Gawd, I hated working at one.

[Tx4obama]

50. Execution.

A bullet in the temple is much cheaper than taxpayers paying an average of $50,000 PER YEAR to house each inmate in prison for the rest of their life. Many lifers have access to an education, TV, computer, library books, health care, family visits, sex with other prisoners, etc.
If they have taken someone's life in the process of a robbery then their life should be taken also. They are the ones that should pay for their crime, not innocent taxpayers.

[KansasVoter]

55. Wow, have you read any stats on the cost of an execution? Read before posting!

[Tx4obama]

59. The cost of execution can be fixed with reform on the process.

The appeal process should be the first place to enact reform - appeals of death row inmates should be fast-tracked.
There is no reason folks found guilty and sentenced to death should be sitting on death row for decades.
And the option of a firing squad should reintroduced - that would NOT be an inhumane option when punishing murderers.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

68. Why do you hate New Jersey so much?

[ZombieHorde]

88. If the process is fast-tracked, more errors will be made.

People who are sentenced to death deserve chances to appeal. We make mistakes.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

64. Why do you hate Iowa so much?

[HEyHEY]

97. Money should have nothing to do with deciding a person's fate in such circumstanc. That's disgusting

[Bucky]

51. I totally support the death penalty (in theory). There are some crimes so horrible...

that killing the perpetrator is the appropriate punishment. The only problem is that just about every state in this country that has the death penalty option for juries has shown that their system of justice is going to get it wrong part of the time.

We, as a society, simply lack the maturity, judgment, and fairness required to impartially dispense justice. How many people have been freed from death row by being exonerated? How many on death row are still not being allowed to get DNA tests to verify their guilt? We, as Americans, get it wrong too often to be trusted as a pool of potential jurors. The case studies I've read about show that the race of the accused is commonly a factor in the awarding of death sentences.

If we could ensure perfect justice, I'd be all for killing the guilty. But as we, as a society, are so flippant about potentially killing the wrongly accused, we don't deserve the right to terminate the lives of those who deserve that particular punishment.

[lpbk2713]

58. This OP has already lasted longer than I expected.

OP's with anything DP related don't usually have a long life span.

[lumberjack_jeff]

60. Other: the comfy chair.

They could shout a lot, I suppose.

[bullwinkle428]

61. Damn, they're trying to hang anything they can on Assange!

Oh wait...this isn't an Assange thread!

[pitohui]

62. as long as we have a death penalty that is the appropriate penalty

i have no use for someone who kills a stranger who is trying to work and improve themselves at a shitty job just for a few dollars that will be smoked that very same day

of course it's inspired by a true event, we all know about people who have been victims of similar events

there are 7 billion people on this planet, we need to get serious abt removing some of the predators among us, there is such a thing as the greater good for the greater number

when a working person is victimized on the job, that's pretty much one of the lowest acts a murderer can commit -- and make no mistake, the minute you pick up a gun to enter a person's house or business for money, you ARE a murderer, you have decided where you stand and you have decided that a worker or a citizen's life is something you will blow away if you don't get the money for your crack

i'm tired of living in fear, there comes a time when we actually need to remove the evil from the planet

as for those who say "well they make mistake, so put them in prison for life," what kind of idiotic logic is that? say you are the innocent victim of a mistaken identity, you want to be put in prison for life and either subject to repeated rape and violence in a cage or the kind of isolation that guarantees that you lose your mind and you character? no i would rather be humanely killed than tortured ESPECIALLY if i'm innocent, christ people, why would you ever want to take a chance of torturing an innocent?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

65. Why do you hate Michigan so much?

[pitohui]

66. if you think convenience stores are only robbed in michigan think again

what i hate is cruelty and torture

we've had guys not able to prove their innocence for decades in louisiana by then their lives are ruined anyway

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

73. I admit that's a spin I never saw before.

We should use the DP instead of life in prison because it's more merciful with the wrongly convicted.

Wow. Just wow.

[LanternWaste]

70. I would want to know full context and full details

I would want to know full context and full details prior to making a judgment. Possibly hearing testimony from all relevant parties. And maybe some questions and cross-questions too.

[Mudoria]

72. execution

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

74. Why do you hate Vermont so much?

[Rochester]

75. Swift, clean, painless execution.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

77. Why do you hate Rhode Island so much?

[TheKentuckian]

76. Life with some possibility of parole if rehabilitated, not tied to time but development.

I believe that prisons are for protecting society and rehabilitation. Punishment isn't particularly an important piece of my thinking. The whole thing is a failure with thousands of years of documentation supporting the literal epic scope of the failure of our present system to attempt to make good on my goals despite the success of the containment portion because we create a professional criminal underclass, most of which return to no options but shady dealings and being surrounded by a bad element.

[fishwax]

78. other

I oppose the death penalty. As to life without parole--that sounds reasonable, but would depend on circumstances.

[noamnety]

79. Would need to know the circumstances. (nt)

[bigwillq]

80. Life in prison (nt)

[petronius]

86. He should be sewn into a dog costume and adopted by Michael Vick

[ZombieHorde]

89. I voted, "Prison with a chance of parole in 20 years."

People who kill bankers and wall street folk should get community service, time served.

[Upton]

90. Death..

and for all those suggesting the murderer should one day be eligible for parole, keep in mind the murder victim will never have a second chance.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

95. Why do you hate Hawaii so much?

[Art_from_Ark]

98. Why do you hate Arkansas so much?

"On April 13, 1999, Marion Albert Pruett,49, was executed in Arkansas for the 1981 slaying of a convenience store clerk. Pruett, who murdered five people after entering the federal witness-protection program, asked God and his victims for forgiveness, then closed his eyes as he was injected. "I would also like to ask all the people that I ever hurt, and their family members, to forgive me for all the pain," he said. "And I forgive everybody for what's about to happen to me."

Pruett was sent to death row for the October 1981 killing of an Arkansas convenience store clerk -- one of three people he killed that week. While serving time in Georgia for bank robbery, he testified against another inmate in the slaying of his cellmate and was released in 1979 and placed in the protection program. He later said he committed the murder. "

http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/P/PRUETT_marion_albert.php

As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Pruett got what he deserved.

[Rhythm]

92. Life -- no parole. I don't believe in capital punishment at all. n/t

[BlueIris]

96. I went with prison, chance of parole in less than twenty.

Wait, just hear me out.

The murderer will spend the rest of his life being penalized for his crime, whether he is taking up the space that could be used for child molesters and/or rapists and/or serial rapists and other criminals who will never reform or be less of a danger to others. I simply do not feel that in this day and age, letting a murderer who may reform take up fat piles of space and resources inside a prison that should be used for criminals who won't change is entirely justifiable.