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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-11 08:06 PM
Original message
So, so sad.
Edited on Mon May-30-11 08:12 PM by Richard D


Chief Raoni cries when he learns that Brazilian president, Dilma, released the beginning of construction of the hydroelectric plant of Belo Monte, even after tens of thousands of letters and emails addressed to her, which were ignored as were the more than 600,000 signatures.

The death sentence of the peoples of Great Bend of the Xingu river is enacted. Belo Monte will inundate at least 400,000 hectares of forest (1544 square miles); an area bigger than the Panama Canal, expelling 40,000 indigenous and local populations and destroying habitat valuable for many species - all to produce electricity at a high social, economic and environmental cost, which could easily be generated with greater investments in energy efficiency.

Edited a little for grammar and to add in the conversion to square miles.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-11 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. I admit I'm torn on this one.
We need our energy to be clean, and you just can't get much cleaner than hydroelectricity.

The real tragedy here is lack of a plan/resources/determination to reforest and to stop illegal logging.
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-11 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I guess it depends on the definition of clean . . .
. . . losing 1555 square miles of inhabited jungle is something I could never consider clean.
There has to be better ways to charge up iPhones, run TV's, etc. Just the loss of biodiversity, not to mention the cultural genocide, is horrific.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-11 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-11 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Three environmentalists
have been murdered over the past week.....for protecting the Amazon Forest.

I'm sure some Corporate son-of-a-short-dick is making out like a bandit on this.

Just wait until something happens Three Gorges in China....
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zinnisking Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
56. Could you fill me in on this?
"Three environmentalists have been murdered over the past week..."
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-11 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. "Homo sapiens deserves whatever we get." Amen. We certainly earned every bit of it. nt
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
26. Seriously?
Even man woman and child "deserves" what few that have the power have wrought? How about the 600,000 that tried to stop this? Your broad brush stinks and is a useless piece of judgment.
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. The problem with Hydroelectric energy
is that it destroys pieces of the environment and hurts a lot of people.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-11 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Look at the man in the picture. This is not clean.
--imm
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-11 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. what???

:wtf:
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. it's not clean energy
exactly what the poster said.

if you uproot indigenous cultures and kick them out of their lands, that's dirty energy.

where are these people going to go --Rio?
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
44. What energy source prevent this from ever happening?
What land was never owned by anyone?

I guess we could all be clambering to put windmills and solar panels in the antarctic. But that has limited utility.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. In the Pacific Northwest we have lots of hydropower, but it comes at a huge cost.
It's turned our rivers into tightly managed lakes and decimated anadromous fish runs. Yeah, hydropower is much cheaper than coal, nuclear, even natural gas. But it is limited and has drastically changed the ecology of the region.

Solar and wind...give me some more of that!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. Thanks for the info -- sad -- !!
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
43. Agreed.
I love hydro power for what it's given us, but in fish stocks, it has cost us dearly. Then again, so have several other human policies around habitat exploitation.

This project in the OP, seems unconscionable. Human cultural damage aside, the amount of habitat they are going to flood is just mind boggling. I doubt we even know what all is in there.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Yes you can: solar
and the fucking project isn't worth the existence of an entire peoples.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. don't kid yourself: it's dirty energy if it takes a form of genocide to create the energy
when an indigenous culture is moved, that's what it is.

don't sleep well at night thinking it's "clean" energy. it's dirty. truly.
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SusanaMontana41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. Yup. n/t
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. One thing more to know about hydro power ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Critics of the industry have claimed that in tropical areas of Brazil - which supplies more than 90% of its electricity from large dams - some reservoirs emit so much methane that their contribution to climate change is greater than an equivalent power station burning fossil fuels like coal or gas.

All the organic matter in the forest that is covered by that reservoir will begin to rot, producing methane -- a more potent GHG than CO2.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-11 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. And so many question the need for a true world court...
to protect the rights of the indigenous and unempowered. Damn.....So very sad.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. +1,000.nt
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
33. with all nations and the corporations who run them held accountable n/t
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MinneapolisMatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-11 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. What a heart-breaking photograph.
:cry:
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. He just witnessed . . .
. . . the beginning of the end of his people's existence.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-11 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. Horrifying!
:cry:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-30-11 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. here's another
:hi:
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:43 AM
Response to Original message
22. DAMN!
Dams are not necessarily CLEAN ENERGY!

They can screw up Nature royally!
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a kennedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
24. kicking
:cry:
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
25. The white man has been raping this hemisphere since
he first set foot here.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. Only a few hundred years since the "discoverers" landed here = total destruction!!
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
47. What does the white man...
have to do with this story? Certainly, all of humankind has been raping the land since forever. Native Americans included. Lots of animals hunted to extinction. Quite a few socities wiped out due to their own greed. And now a woman is doing the raping. But, always nice to dumb things down to "white man bad".
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. Not dumb at all. Dilma is white.
Brazil's ruling class is white. The Russians forced the Native Alaskans to hunt the otter almost to extinction. Do you know how they forced them?
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-01-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. So, you want to continue along this line?
Seriously? I suppose you'll include white women now too, right? The truth is, everyone has been raping the land since forever. Industrialization just makes the process happen at a much accelerated pace. And plenty of non-Europeans have been raping the land with industrialization as well. Europeans were among the first to actually try to protect the environment in the new industrialized, heavy populace age.

So what exactly is the point of demonizing white men from this OP?

The issue anymore is a global problem, seen in every nation, and your comment seems to be trying to place blame on "white men" rather than trying to fix the problem. Scapegoating by race and gender usually is frowned upon.
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geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
27. K and R
One more culture gone and hundred or thousands more species threatened or gone.

Disgusting.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
28. k&r
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. Just like here.
It doesn't matter what 'the people' want.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
30. The War against the People of the Earth continues
It is a war against the feminine (yin) spirit represented by the indigenous nations and peoples.

And it leads to fulfillment of the hate & death wish so sickly clung to by the whacko, out-of-balance right wing which has monumental craploads of fear in its soul that it has not the courage to face on honest terms.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
32. We should all be crying if we understand the damage we have done to nature and ourselves -- !!
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
36. damn dam, KnR
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
37. Tragic! Maybe we should learn how these people survive and
emulate THEIR way of life, instead of imposing our not-so-great culture on them.

What will happen to them now? :cry:
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
39. Kicked and recommended for our dying roots.
:(

Thanks for the thread, Richard D.
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wial Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
40. such crimes against the planet deserve the harshest punishments
anyone who would even consider wrecking the Amazon should at the least be sterilized, and all their relatives too. That's exactly the kind of behavior that will be examined if we ever get as far as finding the greater galactic community. If we don't improve, we'll be judged a cancer on the universe.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Please elaborate on what ''The BANANA type'' is. I'm curious.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Well no see, if you use energy bitching about this sort of thing on the internet
that means you don't have to examine where your own electricity is coming from (the wall socket, duh!).

:sarcasm:
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
46. I am humbled and grateful . . .
. . . to all of you who recommended this important article.

I wish I knew what to do about this.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
48. I wish there was something I could do.
If so many signatures did not move the ptb I don't know what I can personally do. It breaks my heart.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
49. Disappearing World: Kayapo Indians ... on Netflix
Payakan worked with Sting and others on this issue since before 2003. It's been a long battle.
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
50. We are quickly losing the lungs of the planet
These rain forests take up a lot of carbon dioxide, and produce a lot of oxygen. Without them, we might as well kiss our asses goodbye.

Yep folks, capitalism is killing us, the planet, and everything we know.
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. As long as we have our smoking bans, we're cool with this.
At any rate, you nailed it.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
51. PROGRESS?
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
53. Aw gee this is so sad, it's sad to see someone
who is obviously distressed and so sad that those who have the control don't give a damn about what the people want. It makes me sick. :-(
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