To what extent has the U.S. secretly fomented the 'Arab Spring'?

[sixmile]

Could this have all been a foreign policy plan implemented by the Obama administration to achieve full democracy and middle east peace while simultaneously winding down our conflicts?

Is the charisma of Obama spreading hope throughout the region? Or could it remotely be associated with Bush's vision of democracy spreading from a Saddam-free Iraq? Or is it Twitter?

[tabatha]

1. Rather like an earthquake, we could be pretty sure it was going to happen

THE POPULAR UPRISING that began in Tunisia last December came as a surprise in one sense, but in another sense it was no surprise at all. Rather like an earthquake, we could be pretty sure it was going to happen, though nobody could say exactly when.

It was obvious, or ought to have been, that at some point something would have to give – and the same can be said of all the Arab countries. If the regimes don't transform themselves radically over the next few years, eventually they are going to fall.

http://www.al-bab.com/arab/articles/text/arabs_and_the_long_revolution.htm

[Exultant Democracy]

2. If anything Bush's Wars probably delayed the Arab Spring and the Green Revolution.

If we had not occupied two countries surrounding Iran I have a strong inclination to believe that Iran's Green Revolution not only might have come sooner, but that it would have had a far greater chance of succeeding.

The irony of it is that Iran then would have been the democracy in the middle east that Bush said he wanted, while today we face an Iraq whose government looks more and more like just another fundamentalist Islamic state.

[TheDebbieDee]

3. Quite honestly, I don't think the revolutions are a result of US

tinkering as they are a result of internet, twitter and I-phones. The young people in these countries aren't dependent on state-run propaganda offices for their news of the outside world anymore.

I also think that the young people have noticed that if they are impoverished because of the "Great White Satans" of the west, why do a few of their people live in palaces?

[aquart]

4. Because brownish people are incapable of doing anything themselves.

I'm sure you don't believe that your OP is the epitome of racism, but it is.

And I wish to God you would examine why you believe other people are only puppets.

[Hannah Bell]

9. what tired crap. do you feel the same about, e.g., the kochs as the hidden power

behind the tea parties? of the cia's role in fomenting demonstrations & riots that led to the overthrow of a succession of duly-elected leaders in latin america, in the middle east, and in africa?

it's not that people can't "do anything for themselves". it's that when they do things the rulers don't like, they're typically suppressed. elite-sponsored rebellions have a much greater chance of being publicized/successful, and history is replete with examples of same.

sick of "racism" & "sexism" being used to suppress legitimate questioning.

[Forkboy]

13. Oh ffs.

[former9thward]

5. There are things that happen in the world without the interference of the U.S.

The U.S. had nothing to do with the 'Arab Spring'.

[Hannah Bell]

10. it's quite obvious just from published reports that the US had *something* to do with it.

as did their allies the british.

it's only the extent which is in question.

[AlabamaLibrul]

6. The best and most honest answer I can give is that I don't know, being secret and all. n/t

[robdogbucky]

7. To what extent

would the US want its sponsored dictatorships in so many countries threatened? Why when the US has been constantly beating the terrorism drum as the regional enemy would these movements emerge to oppose those US sponsored dictatorships? This notion of our intelligence agencies wanting this to happen, much less making any of it happen, smacks of Ameri-centric thinking.

No, I think this is the last way the US foreign policy planners wanted things to go. Our intelligence agencies excel at three things; destabilization, assassinations, rigging elections. In case you haven't noticed, they don't really do nation-building or democracy very well. Think dictatorships installed after a violent insurrection is put down. That is the modus operandi.

This destabilization and change in so many countries at once emanates from grassroots movements in almost all the locations, I don't see the US intelligence agencies being able to bring such change about in the fashion it is happening. No doubt, really no doubt, the advent of social networking and the internet in general, has helped bring these movements about. Virtually all the little dictators (Tunisia, Ivory Coast, Egypt, Yemen, Bahrain (royal family as dictators), etc.)are running for their lives leaving the US foreign policy wonks to negotiate with whomever emerges to deal with. As we have seen in the last couple of weeks this process is far from over and in some places like Yemen, Bahrain, Syria it is still very much up in the air.

Egypt's movement, April 6 Movement, arose out of a labor dispute back in 2008 at a textile factory when youthful workers struck and basically said they weren't going to stand for the way things had been under Mubarak for the last 35 years. Unfortunately there is now some friction between the army, who has been put in control, and the needed changes are hard to manage without having elected officials to manage the newly emerging government structure there. The sticking point this week was that some want a constitution in place before elections, others want to wait until after elections to draft a new constitution. At least this is progress from open rebellion in the streets and confrontations with the secret police. There is some play with the army but that situation could still go either way.

As our good friend Nadin aptly cited, there has been a run on Pepto-Bismol in Foggy Bottom these last few months.

I think the US is hoping for the best for it foreign policy needs, but I would hope things turn out best for the people of those beleaguered nations, suffering so long under US supported dictators.



Just my dos centavos

robdogbucky

[NashVegas]

8. No US-Sponsored Rebellion Was Ever Instigated to Achieve Full Democracy

Did you know, for example, that the former Yugoslavia had no interest in following all the Eastern Bloc in joining NATO?

How much Democracy do you think they're getting in Iraq?

[Hannah Bell]

11. how much democracy are they getting in the middle east?

how much democracy are they getting in egypt now that mubarak's gone?

[robdogbucky]

12. As our esteemed SOS Clinton said a couple of times

Things in the middle east currently are fluid and dynamic.

Nothing is over yet, not in Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Bahrain, Syria, etc., etc., etc.

They are in the process of putting the Mubaraks (entire family from reports) on trial. That is at least a start at democracy. Electing officials and forming a real constitution will be the next step.

I am not so cynical that I don't think there can just be too much happening at once in too many places for the US to have much of an impact either way. We spawned these client state dictatorships, and now we will reap what we sow.

The only places I have seen the dark hand of US in play has been in Bahrain and in Libya. For two very different reasons.

The views that are expressed and discussed constantly on trans-national news outlets like AlJazeeraEnglish are indispensible to keeping up with events over there on a day to day basis.

Fluid and dynamic.


Al Jazeera and the Arab awakening

Wadah Khanfar, Al Jazeera's director general, talks to Listening Post about the network's coverage of the revolutions.

Listening Post Last Modified: 28 May 2011 11:30


"The Arab revolutions, the emerging new media ecosystem and Al Jazeera in North America. On this week's show we feature an interview with Al Jazeera's director general, Wadah Khanfar.

Al Jazeera's coverage of the Arab revolutions has, at times, prompted embattled leaders in the region to accuse the network of fuelling the protests. The man who has to respond to this criticism is Wadah Khanfar, the director general who is in charge of both the Arabic and English channels. Listening Post sat down with Khanfar in Washington recently. We spoke about the network's coverage of the Arab revolutions, the new ecosystem developing between journalists and social media activists and the efforts to crack the American news market.

Quick hits from the world of Newsbytes: The Egyptian military reprimands journalists for reporting on the ousted leader Hosni Mubarak; Bahraini authorities continue their clampdown on journalists trying to cover the uprising there; Serbian state TV apologises for its role during the Kosovo war; Press TV is censured by Britain's broadcasting regulator Ofcom for airing an interview with journalist Maziar Bahari; and privacy laws come under scrutiny in the UK as Twitter users flout a court ruling to name people who have sought injunctions to gag the media.

Our video of the week features one of the show's favourites. Regulars to the show will recognise the fake news anchor Robert Foster, who produces satirical music videos. In this video, he takes on the battling narratives that emerged after Osama bin Laden's assassination. We hope you enjoy the show."

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/listeningpost/2011/05/201152810739137279.html


robdog sez "check it out" You won't be disappointed and might learn something.



Just my dos centavos

robdogbucky

[Posteritatis]

14. Or maybe people who aren't Americans have some agency of their own.

Just a thought, if maybe a really challenging one for a lot of people around here.