One of my cousins told me to stop "demonizing" Republicans

[Cyrano]

This came out of his mouth after a long argument we were having about politics.

My response that, "Republicans have spent decades demonizing anyone that doesn't fit their fascist mold," didn't convince him. I went on to specify that "We Democrats don't demonize Republicans. We just tell the truth about them."

Fortunately, we ended the conversation there, or one of us would have ended up on the front page of the local paper as having "Bludgeoned A Relative To Death."

So here's my current reality. The Republican Party, as a whole, is a danger to our freedoms, are opposed to what we call democracy, and are doing everything possible to destroy us. That may sound extreme, but I'd really like to hear someone here on DU tell me that I'm wrong about this and why.

[Deep13]

1. They're demonizing themselves.

There's no way to make fascism pretty.

[Rectangle]

51. Yeah, just stand back, get out of their way! n/t

[socialist_n_TN]

2. Your not wrong. They're the American version of

fascism. AND they and their supporters PROJECT what they think and do (demonizing) onto their political enemies.

[Zoeisright]

3. I am thoroughly sick and tired of racist assholes whining about being called on their bigotry.

Exposing repukes for the jerks that they are is not "demonizing". You're right - it's telling the truth. If your cousin can't handle that, then he deserves what he's going to get: a world of hurt, brought to him directly by repukes.

[BrklynLiberal]

4. Too late to demonize them They are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy past that already.

[EFerrari]

5. I think of them as the country's biggest hate group.

They hate women, minorities, gays, immigrants, the poor, workers, Muslims. And democracy.

[Scuba]

9. Bingo.

[Cyrano]

13. I think you're right on, EFerrari. Actually, I can't think of any "Other" they don't hate.

[arbusto_baboso]

6. If they don't want to be demonized, they should drop their demonic policies.

It really is that simple.

[slackmaster]

7. Demonization is not a trait of any particular viewpoint

[damntexdem]

8. Well, after all, that IS an insult ... to demons.

;-)

[JohnnyRingo]

10. Reminds me of a classic Big Time Wrestling move.

The bad guy would be pinned with a painful arm lock to the mat after he doled out a series of low blows and illegal moves. He would look up from his disadvantaged position and plead for compassion. When the good guy finally relented, the villian would produce a chain or brass knuckes and happily continue his assault.

Don't fall for it. If Obama, Pelosi, or any other Dem slips up next month, he'll use it like a folding chair to bash you over the head.

[hwmnbn]

19. LOL, it happens EVERY match...

I've always considered pro-wrestling the "opera" of the trailer park set.

Although we always know how the story ends, it's the quality of the performances (on the stage or in the ring) that make it compelling.

[TrogL]

37. That would make it ballet

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. I actually find mocking and sarcasm more effective and better accepted

[SoCalDem]

12. Maybe if they started acting like civilized people, they would not be "demonized"

:)

[Cyrano]

14. I agree. They're moving forward as fast as they can to the 12th century

[pipi_k]

16. Here's what civilized people do...

they spend time with their families doing fun family stuff.

They vote in town elections and hold town positions.

They help people who don't have as much as they do.

They care about their neighbors and watch out for them.

They raise decent children who don't get into trouble, who study and get good grades and follow in their parents' footsteps and help other people.


I have neighbors like that. They are Republicans.

In the 15 years we've been their neighbors they are the ONLY people who have given a shit.

So last night Mr P and I went out to see our newest grandchild. We're retired so we're not gone all that often. Our neighbors (the Republicans) called to ask if we had seen any strange cars yesterday. When there was no answer, they got all worried because they know we are mostly homebodies. When we got home there was a message on the machine. Apparently someone tried to break into their warehouse where lots of equipment and some nice motorcycles are stored. Their dog chased them away.

The other reason they called...we are a bit off the beaten path. These would-be thieves didn't succeed at their first mission, but there are other homes out here they could burglarize now that they know how to get here. Our neighbors wanted to give us a heads up so we're aware of that.

I don't agree with their politics, but I do appreciate the fact that they are decent, civilized people.

[socialist_n_TN]

24. So did they vote for candidates that supported

getting rid of Medicare, Social Security and all of the rest of the social safety net? Did they support candidates that supported keeping LGBT, AA, and Latino citizens in second class status? Did they support candidates who supported tax breaks for millionaires, billionaires and multinational corporations and shifting that burden to the working class? Did they support candidates who support taking away the rights of Americans? Did they support candidates who favored busting unions?

I could go on, but you get the picture (I hope). No matter HOW "nice" they seem, if they support candidates that are for killing the USA as we know it in favor of some libertarian paradise, i.e., Somolia, then ultimately they are NOT "nice" "decent" or "civilized" people. If they were, they wouldn't support these positions or support candidates who SUPPORT these positions.

As Jesus said, "By their works shall you know them." What kind of "works" do they support?

[pipi_k]

26. I wouldn't know, actually

I don't generally discuss politics with people. I don't care how someone else votes. They vote according to their beliefs, I vote according to mine.


You know, the really sad thing is that each side believes it's the righteous one. Each side thinks the other side is evil and full of shit. The only "good" side, naturally, is the one we're on. :eyes:


Someone's politics doesn't necessarily make him what he is.


By the same token as what you've asked me about my neighbors, I have a question...

What if you know a person who votes in a way you find acceptable...who seems to support everyone else's rights, blah blah blah. But that person is an asshole who cheats on his wife, abuses his kids, and does other unsavory things in his personal life...

Would he deserve to be called "decent" and "civilized"?

Just because he casts his vote in a manner you find acceptable?

I have a feeling that the answer to that would be, "Of course not. Not ALL Democrats are decent and civil. But ALL Republicans are assholes".

[socialist_n_TN]

28. Yep. That is my answer.........

But I will hold to my position in this matter.

You can't be "decent" and "civilized" when you support indecent and uncivilized postions. Just like the Dem that cheats on his wife, I wouldn't call him decent or civilized even though he votes in a correct manner. Although in reality, his personal choices affect only a small group. Voters who support Republicans and their positions affect ALL of us.

[pipi_k]

35. Well I'm not sure I'd lump all of "them" into one group.

I vote Democrat, but I wouldn't exactly call myself a "liberal".



I can see where both sides have good points.

Not all Republicans are bad. Not all Democrats are good.

and you know...there are some Democrats who scare me just as much as some Republicans do.

I know people think that a Society run on purely Democratic principles would be a dandy thing, but I'm not so sure of that. No more than I'd want to see a Society run on purely Republican principles.


In any event, how my neighbors vote doesn't affect my opinion of them any more than how I and Mr P vote affects their opinion of us.

I still think they're civilized people who want the best for others even though they may not share my opinion on how to go about it.

[treestar]

38. The thing with Republicans

They are nice to you because they know you personally.

There are Republicans who do a lot for their friends and family.

It's just the masses they don't know - they would let them starve or go without medical care (if they don't have someone who will help them.)

[socialist_n_TN]

41. And there you go. As I said

if you support policies that negatively affect the masses, to me that's demonic. I've heard that Hitler was kind to his dogs and Eva too. To the masses of Europe, not so much.

[nichomachus]

15. Answer: Then stop the demonic activity

Reminds me of the time the pest control guy came while I was working in my office. It was a new guy -- early 20s. He said "Do you mind if I spray in here." I said "Sure, just don't spray me." He said, "Sure, just don't be a pest."

I LOLed

[Cyrano]

18. In truth, trying to tell a wingnut anything is a total waste of time.

They have been so brainwashed for so long, that they really would believe the Earth was flat if they heard it on Fox "news," or from Limbaugh.

I find it hard to empathize with whatever it is that goes on it their heads. Actually, I find it impossible to empathize with whatever it is that goes on in their heads.

[nichomachus]

21. You don't need to tell me. I stupidly got into a conversation with my sister yesterday

That was a mistake. She lives on Fox, Limbaugh, and Teabagger literature.

[Lars39]

17. So your cousin thinks the Republicans are just too dumb to realize

the real-life outcomes of their policies?

[Cyrano]

20. No. My cousin is just too dumb to realize how the outcome of Republican polices will affect him

Fortunately, he doesn't know I post to DU, or my online name. Today's politics have ruined far too many families. I'm doing my best to limit the damage done to my large extended family. And I was a total idiot to get into a political conversation with him to begin with.

[Lars39]

22. Hard to reverse once it gets going.

Good luck on keeping it contained. :hug:

[pitohui]

23. of course you are right but demons are peeved when you tell the truth

if you were an evil selfish "i've got mine" piece of pond scum...wouldn't you resent it when a truth-teller spoke up?

[truebrit71]

25. Repukes are totally incapable of understanding the concept of turnabout being fair play..

...THEY get to demonize, smear, lie and threaten the Democrats, but as soon as a Democrat stands up and tells them to go pound sand they play the victim card...

They act like vicious, spiteful bullies, and just like in real life, the best way to deal with a bully is to smack them in the mouth a couple of times and then ask them if they want more...

[rucky]

27. classic conservative play: provoke, provoke, provoke

then act like a victim when you fire back.

[hifiguy]

29. Was it Harry Truman who said

"If the Republicans will stop lying about me, I will stop telling the truth about them."?

Sounds like Harry to me!

[Brother Buzz]

30. Close - Adlai Stevenson

[Fumesucker]

32. Truman said, I don't give them hell, I just tell the truth and they think it's hell..

[tekisui]

31. I say stop humanizing them.

[hfojvt]

33. yeah, you are wrong, but hardly anybody here will tell you

First, you said "Republicans have spent decades demonizing anyone ..."

Well, were they wrong to do so?

If I am gonna call bullshit when they do it to us, then wouldn't I be a huge hypocrite or intellectually dishonest if I didn't call bullshit when we do it to them?

Secondly, is demonizing major parts of the voting public really gonna help us win elections? If you tell a bunch of voters that you are evil, you are stupid, you are racists, you are bigots and you are hateful. First of all, you just spewed a bunch of hate yourself which is kinda ironic if you are scolding the other side for being hateful. Second, it's kinda hard to follow that with 'please vote for my candidate' or 'please support my issues'.

You may think you are only attacking people who can never be persuaded, but that isn't necessarily so. Often, there will be collateral damage when a hate bomb is thrown. If you cannot even talk to your own relatives without teetering towards physical violence, then how are you gonna relate to strangers?

[pipi_k]

36. Oho.....!!!! Very good points!

Unfortunately, they are probably too logical and close to the truth for many to take them to heart.

I think very few will actually "get it".

It's apparently way more satisfying for them to spew hatred, then wonder why they get hatred in return.

[Cyrano]

40. My bad. I guess I'll start all conversations by telling them that

Limbaugh is a living God, and Fox "news" is the source of all truth.

[hfojvt]

48. it really makes me wonder

Are you even reading what I write, and trying to understand what I have said?

Or do you just sorta skim over it and then take the assignment "What is the most sarcastic thing I could say to show my contempt for this person and everything he stands for?"

Actually I would say it is perfectly fine to demonize Rush Limbaugh. He makes millions of dollars to lie to people. The problem is that we rarely seem to be able to attack Limbaugh without also attacking his listeners - you know, all the moronic racists who listen to him. Or heck, even sometimes all white people. Before the election there was an article being praised to the skies. An article which attacked Limbaugh - for being a typical white person, scared to death that a black man might become President.

Oh, if only the targets of our self-righteous hatred were just Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, instead of the demons who listen and watch.

"That post by Digby was very important. We’ll only suggest that you review the comments by Digby’s readers to see the way one part of the “liberal” world reacted to what she described. (To access the comments, click here.) Many of us began to thunder about the dumbness of those three average voters. In this way, plutocrats divide and conquer, as they have done throughout time.

Ask yourself this as you scroll through those comments: How many of those self-impressed “liberals” could explain the logic of Social Security, in a way which would stand up to the skilled talking-points those voters have endlessly heard? As good pseudo-liberals, we’ve now been trained to reject the idea that the system is in serious trouble. But the thirty-year disinformation war includes a great many claims which are very slick—and the liberal world has rarely made the slightest attempt to challenge or deconstruct these claims in ways which make sense to voters.

In our culture, those voters exist for two major reasons: So we can say how dumb they are. So we can denounce them as bigots."

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh091710.shtml

[TheKentuckian]

43. Honestly, who gives a fuck. The idea is a majority not a consensus.

Also, you omit that telling the truth is not demonizing. The Dark Agers need to be sat in a corner and restrained from controlling influence whenever possible.

These folks have been coddled quite enough and doing so has ONLY encouraged anti-social insanity. You are wrong because reality stares back and says so.

Humanizing Dark Agers and neo-fuedalists against their best efforts is counter-productive and essentially goofy no matter how sensible and decent it seems.
There is no need to demonize when pointing out reality trumps any level of fiction.

[hfojvt]

46. "telling the truth is not demonizing"

Except that we, as a rule, do not tell the truth when we demonize. Not even close, because most people are not demons - they are just people. Sometimes much better people than we make them out to be when we are demonzing them.

Secondly, you do not reduce their influence when you demonize them, quite the opposite. Here's an example.

"Let’s assume there are roughly 200 million potential voters. Based on the New York Times/CBS survey, roughly 36 million of those people are (current) Tea Party supporters. Of that number, roughly 19 million think too much has been made of black problems in recent years.

When we say and imply that these people are racists, it makes us ratty white liberals feel good—but we’re playing with electoral fire. You see, based on that “19 percent” figure, about 30 million additional voters also think that too much has been made of black problems in recent years—30 million additional voters who don’t (currently) describe themselves as Tea Party supporters. When we keep assailing the motives of Tea Party supporters, we’re assailing these peoples’ motives as well. This means there are 30 million additional people we are inviting to vote against us, added to the 36 million Dionne says are already lost. At this point, even Dionne might see an electoral problem looming in November: Could 66 million voters possibly tip November’s election?

In 2006, only 81 million people voted in all."

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh042010.shtml

That's how demonizing works against us. We take a group of people and find a statement and say "aha, they said X, that proves they are a bunch of vile racists." And sure, maybe some of them are, but first of all, we attack the whole group for the sins of some. And then, since we attacked the group for "saying X" a whole bunch of other people who also believe X, or are unsure, are gonna be hit by our attack on the group.

If you really wanted to reduce the influence of the group, it would be better, to explain, without attacking anyone, exactly why believing X is wrong. What you want is for the reader to think "I am too good a person and too smart a person to believe X". Instead we lead with the basic argument that "you are a bad person and/or you are a stupid person for believing X", because our usual way is to just talk about how bad and stupid are the people who believe X, and so we never even bother to show why X is not true.

Do you see how our approach will not win hearts and minds. That it will, instead, make enemies?

At this point, though, I have to wonder. Because I devote some effort on this board into changing the minds of the hateful, and it seems to me that I have not changed a single mind. That I have, instead, made a number of enemies. It would be interesting to know why that is.

[TheKentuckian]

54. Because 30 or 40 years of coddling, assimilation, and acceptance has radicalized the anti-social

fucks and emboldened them.

"Too much made of black problems", yup sounds racist to me or at minimum real fucking stupid and fearful of losing privileged position and I might be "ratty" (whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean) but I'm no more white than the President.

No, the "high road" has been endlessly traveled and the dumpsterfires just see it as weakness and they redouble their efforts.

They have had every opportunity to be reasoned with and the Democratic party has adopted more and more of their failed ideology and it has pushed them to the extreme.

Decades of life and the results of the policies they support tells me your thinking is in error when the rubber meets the road.
They have been advised with the problems with many an "X" and they could care less and even if they are moved they keep trudging along with the vile racist terror organization that the TeaPubliKlans have devolved to and all our efforts have bought is more right wing extremist and more right wing Dinocraps.

The mission is to marginalize and reverse. They've had fucking decades of having their foul little asses wiped and their absurd nonsense and legitimized and treated as deserving inclusion.

IT DOES NOT WORK. It might seem like it should but it has made matters worse.

[TheKentuckian]

55. Also, I would add that "demonizing" works. The headway the Reich Wing has made over decades

of hammering away at liberals, socialists, and just plain old Democrats has be very effective. Effective to the point of making liberals an endangered species and have taken actual leftist off the board and without influence. Not by rationally making a point but by blasting with both barrels, cheating, and lying their monkey asses off with a big assist from wads of money and a press that is straight propaganda.



I'm still blown away and appalled by your example. 400 fucking years of hardcore institutionalized racism and structural poverty at best and this dingbats have the fucking nerve to cry and arguably worse some are quick to defend the wailers.

[Viking 1]

34. Your cousin sounds like my brother

Rec

[Fly by night]

39. Was his head twirling/spewing green vomit while a scratchy voice emanated from his butt at the time?

That's one way we can spot Rethugligans here in Tennessee (the Flying Monkey Kingdom) these days. That and the "Bought and Paid For" tattoos just above their frat-boy butt-cracks.

[MadMaddie]

42. Did you ask her if what the Republicans/Teabaggers have

done to President Obama and his family "demonizing"?

[Festivito]

44. Congratulations on having a long discussion with a Republican family member.

Mine usually interrupt after few syllables in order to repeat their point -- again -- for the umpteenth time. It's more a game to keep the facts from being reviewed from sources they, ahem, demonized, news sources are leftist and liberals, that is, demons. They have faith, as in the religious term, in Rush and FOX making the discussion a religious discussion.

I congratulate that.

When you demonize, are you not, rather, pointing to things that you and he hold in common. We'd both want freedoms, democracy and to be secure in freedom. And, doesn't he think the same demonizing things about our side destroying such as we think about him doing?

The difference I see is that they demonize words describing people, leftist, liberal; inherently denying such people could want the same things we all want, and thereby keeping the argument away from being real, away from facts that can be verified.

I applaud discussion. But, like any religious discussion make certain you care enough about each other not to harm your own or the other persons digestion. Keep it away from the dinner table in that case. But, again, if you both have cast-iron stomachs, go for it!

Remember where you agree.

Good luck.

[immoderate]

45. These are the days of our lives.

Was it not ever thus?

--imm

[proud patriot]

47. "I'm not Demonizing Republicans

I'm just Quoting their words to the people"
:patriot:

[tomp]

49. you're not telling the whole truth.

the whole truth is that the democratic party is in complete collaboration with the republican agenda to siphon money to the rich.

their role is to LOOK LIKE opposition.

[Duppers]

50. Sounds like most all of my ignorant relatives whom I've stopped speaking to

with the exception of my mother and she's giving me ulcers. I've days I want to swear at her. :(

[The Magistrate]

52. Hell, Sir, Nobody Demonizes Republicans: They Reveal Themselves As Demons Every Time They Vote

[lunatica]

53. What you need to do is ask your relative to tell you what Republicans have done

to actually help Americans. That'll stump your relative because the Republicans have done exactly zero to actually help normal citizens. Just turn the table on your relative. Make him/her defend their views. It's too easy to just accuse you of 'demonizing' Republicans.

[Kurovski]

56. True is true. "Demonizing" is just an opinion.

But your cousin can't argue (and win) that what Authoritarian repubs are doing is good for the counrty.

Your cousin can only divert the discussion from the facts.