Godwin's law, and the intellectual lazyness of invoking bombastic historical analogies.

[howard112211]

From my time on discussion boards I have come to realize one thing: Aside from actual Nazi comparisons for which Godwin's law was formulated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) there are many variants of the same underlying arguing tactic, which is "invoking bombastic historical analogies". And all of them are usually a sign of intellectual lazyness.

The goal of such arguments is always to win a debate by, in absence of actual detailed knowledge of the topic being discussed, casting it in a over-simplified frame in which the other party is forced into arguing against some grand historical consensus.

Examples are: People invoking "Abraham Lincoln", "The Founding Fathers", "The Spartans", "The Roman Empire", "The World War Two Veterans", "Jesus" or even "The Vietnam War".

Sure, one should learn lessons from the past, but I think analogies should be used with caution. To improve the quality of political discourse it probably would be good to avoid grand historical analogies whenever possible and try to discuss the current issues in their own right.

[WingDinger]

1. slippery slope, and appeal to authority, are classic.

[Taverner]

2. I think there are those who read posts looking for the word 'Nazi' only so they can squeal 'Godwin!'

[Journeyman]

3. Been advocating that same point for over 10 years on these boards. . .

realized, about a decade ago, that those who do this have no interest in broadening their discussion and not enough knowledge to deepen it.

[End Of The Road]

4. Spot on. nt

[MilesColtrane]

5. This OP is the greatest human achievement since the moon landing.

:thumbsup:

[MedicalAdmin]

14. Bwahahaha. That is worthy of a DUzy.

:rofl:

[pinboy3niner]

19. Your post is the greatest literary achievement since the Bible...or Mein Kampf

:rofl:

[Nye Bevan]

6. I'm always amused when DUers solemnly debate whether we are living under "fascism"

openly and freely, on a public Internet discussion site.

[Octafish]

7. Here's why I think Godwin's Law is a way of stopping important discussions...

Know your BFEE: Nazis couldn’t win WWII, so they backed Bushes.

BFEE means "Bush Family Evil Empire," shorthand for "War Party."

If Godwin doesn't think NAZIs have relevance today, look around you and ask: "Who is making off with the loot? Who is paying for wars without end?"

[SDuderstadt]

12. LOL!

You crack me up, dude.

[Octafish]

15. What do you find funny about the influence of NAZIs on US intelligence and Wall Street, sduderstadt?

The clear and direct connections help explain the nation's preoccupation with endless war and transferring wealth to the wealthy. Dude.

[SDuderstadt]

16. I was laughing at your claim that...

Godwin's law is a way of stopping important discussions, dude.

[Octafish]

17. I don't think there's anything funny about stopping important discussions, sduderstadt.

Please enlighten DU as to why you do.

[SDuderstadt]

18. Begging the question again, dude?

That's almost as funny as your strawman argument that I somehow think "stopping important discussions" is funny. I disagree that Godwin's law is "stopping important discussions", dude. Not that it would apply to any of your "discussions", anyways.

[Octafish]

20. No need to beg any question as you brought it up, sduderstadt.

I find nothing funny about my reply to the OP. I'd like to know why you wrote what you did.

[SDuderstadt]

21. Dude...

when you can prove that Godwin's law was formulated to "stop serious discussions", we might have something to talk about. If you're just going to mischaracterize what I say, then try to pick a fight over it, you can do that all by yourself.

Serious question: do you understand what "begging the question" actually means?

[Octafish]

24. Sidetrack much, sduderstadt? I'd like to know what you found funny in my reply to the OP.

My point was Godwin's Law stops discussion of important issues, specifically discussion of the NAZI influence on U.S. intelligence and Wall Street.

So, what do you find so funny about that?

[SDuderstadt]

26. I've told you twice now, dude...

Let me repeat it. I don't remotely believe that Godwin's law "stops important discussions". I think that your claiming that is does is simply a rationalization on your part. Get it now?

Serious question: why do I have to explain things to you over and over?

[Octafish]

28. LOL and repeat yourself all you want, you still have failed to address my point, sduderstadt.

As you may know, diversion is a rhetorical device. People who invoke Godwin's Law serve to dampen discussion of the record, which clearly shows how NAZIs have made a big impact on US intelligence and Wall Street. Perhaps it's old hat to you, but to most people -- especially young people who are just becoming politically aware, the NAZI influence is news and most worthy of discussion.

[SDuderstadt]

29. Dude...

do you even understand what Godwin's law is?

[Occulus]

25. He apparently knows nothing of the attempted coup.

This was in the early part of the last century, IIRC.

A regular historian, is our sduderstadt.

[SDuderstadt]

27. I know the "Business Plot"...

quite well, dude. I studied it in undergraduate school.

[Octafish]

30. From this century: the head of the NYSE hugs a rebel FARC commander.

It may be the old college tie, but more likely it's money that makes for strange bedfellows.



The Ultimate Cold Call -- Richard Grasso, NYSE, and Raul Reyes, FARC.

[Blue-Jay]

8. Nice post, Hitler.

[Javaman]

9. Nice post, Genghis. nt

[Vinnie From Indy]

10. You know HITLER tried to tell people what to do...

and he made them wear "flair"!

[sixmile]

11. Over-simplification is intellectually lazy

And a celebration of ignorance and mediocrity. Soon we will de-evolve into a series of grunts and squeals.

Was that less than 140 characters?1!1!?!

[truebrit71]

13. Yeah, sorry but I think that Godwin's "law" is over-simplistic bullshit..

There are plenty of times when Nazi/Fascist/Hitlerian references are not only relevant, but completely warranted.

[Exultant Democracy]

22. Sometimes the shoe fits. Is a comparison of Afghanistan to vietnam off base

cause last time I checked it was called Russia's Vietnam long before we decided to stick our finger in that dyke.

[jberryhill]

23. Because Goebbels believed you could control thought through culture and language?

[kentauros]

31. Godwin's law is important to perfectionists and nitpickers.

:P