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Does this mean that only 26% of parents in a Florida public school can get it changed to a charter?

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:17 AM
Original message
Does this mean that only 26% of parents in a Florida public school can get it changed to a charter?
Edited on Fri May-13-11 12:08 PM by madfloridian
I am still reeling from reading this article. I don't think I am misinterpreting the figures, but it seems unbelievable. This, if true, is worse than that California parent trigger law...at least that requires 51% of parents to approve a public school becoming a charter.

Charter School Classification for Scott Lake Elementary to Go to Vote

Parents of Scott Lake Elementary School students are receiving ballots today to vote on converting the school into a charter school. Janet Wizda, Scott Lake's principal, said ballots are going home with the school's 755 students. Parent meetings were held earlier in the week.

Each household represented will be given one vote, Wizda said, and of those ballots, at least 50 percent must be returned by 4 p.m. May 26. And of the 50 percent returned, more than half must be votes in favor of the conversion for the conversion to be approved.

In addition, any staff member who is a full-time employee or has a teaching contract there can vote. Fifty percent must say yes to becoming a charter in order to approve it.


So doesn't that sound like 26% could possibly cause the public school to become a charter?

And this is the part that is painful especially. It says that if it becomes a charter they can get better funding.

Michele Nunez, a board member of Scott Lake's Parent Teacher Organization, said she supports the change. "I think it will give the administration a little more freedom to appropriate funds," Nunez said."


I guess it's all falling into place now. Deprive the public schools of funds as Rick Scott and his legislator buddies have done, turn the school into a charter which is not as regulated, and more funds will appear.

26 percent?

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Isn't that pretty much how a quorum works?
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. If you've decided that your quorum will be simple majority, yes. n/t
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Your math is incorrect. Any percentage greater than 25% of households.
It's impossible to give a number, as opposed to a percentage needed, because although there are 755 students, we don't know how many households that represents.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I spoke of percentage that could possibly change a school...not a number.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Right--and your percentage is incorrect.
Edited on Fri May-13-11 11:30 AM by msanthrope
I added the aside about number of households needed because, obviously, you can't calculate that.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. It says 50% of households...
Edited on Fri May-13-11 11:40 AM by madfloridian
50% must return it, and of that 50% over a half must approve. So what figure would you use?
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I gave you the answer in post # 2. n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:51 AM
Original message
It sounds as though you are saying any % greater than 25%
It sounds like you are agreeing basically.

You said:

" Your math is incorrect. Any percentage greater than 25% of households.

It's impossible to give a number, as opposed to a percentage needed, because although there are 755 students, we don't know how many households that represents."


I did not give a number of parents. I asked about the half of 50%.

I am questioning the small percentage of parents who are able to bring about such drastic change.

In my mind just over half of 50% of households would mean 26% of households.

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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. No, I am not agreeing with you. I am stating that the correct
answer is any percentage above 25% of total households. Which is not 26%.

You are a retired teacher, correct?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Any percentage above 25%. So it only takes a minimum of 26 % to change a school.
It seems we are agreeing.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Are you being serious?
Edited on Fri May-13-11 12:20 PM by msanthrope
Because I cannot imagine that a retired school teacher doesn't know what a fraction is. Or, that percentages are seldom 'whole.' For example, if I told you that your COLA increase for 2012 was 5.7%, would you accept 5.0% on your check?

It cannot have escaped you that 25.0% or greater is not equal to 26%.


I love education threads.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. "It cannot have escaped you that 25.0% or greater is not equal to 26%."
Really? :shrug:

I have no idea what point you are making, but I am tired of the insults toward me as a retired teacher.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
8. Whatever the number is, it is still wrong to do this.
The parents whose children aren't there now but will be in the future don't get a vote.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. And apparently only half of half of the households can bring the change.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. It should work both ways...
A minimum of 26% of clients of a privately held institution should be able to vote to "commonize" it. :)

--imm
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. No. Don't handicap them with a higher percentage than they need. n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. "of the 50 percent returned, more than half must be votes in favor of the conversion"
Just quoting the article.

Just over half of half of the households can change a school from public to charter.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. It's so easy now to dismantle public schools.
Like taking candy from a baby who can't fight back.

And the worst thing is that so few care.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-11 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. Just for information in general...154 charter schools closed in FL since 2000.
And the list appears to be just up to 2010. It says if you want to know why, contact the closed school's district.

154, that's a lot. Now they are allowing around a fourth of a school's parents to decide to convert it. :shrug:

http://www.floridaschoolchoice.org/Information/Charter_...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
21. It seems the rules to convert say at least 50% of parents must approve.
I wonder if the article is wrong, and the reporter misread the rules? Or if that is a new thing, part of the drastic changes recently.

http://www.floridacharterschools.org/public/whatisachar...

"How are charter schools formed?

"According to the Florida statutes, charter schools can be formed by creating a new school or by converting an existing public school to a charter school. An individual, teachers, parents, a group of individuals, a municipality, or a legal entity may create a charter school.

The concept behind the Florida charter school movement is that community-based organizations, colleges and universities create charters schools to serve students in those communities, with a focus on meeting the needs of underserved students.

The charter school developers form a not-for-profit corporation to govern the charter school. Next, they submit a charter application to the local school district sponsor. The district school board reviews the application and makes the decision whether to approve or deny it. If the application is denied, the founders can choose to appeal through an appeals panel.

An existing public school can apply to convert to a charter school if it has been in operation for at least two years prior to the application to convert. This includes a public school-within-a-school that is designated as a school by the district school board. In order to convert an existing public school to a charter school, the school must demonstrate the support of at least 50 percent of the teachers employed at the school and 50 percent of the parents whose children are enrolled at the school."

It does say that half the parents must turn in their vote, and that only half of those votes must be for the conversion. Looks like there should at least by a slight majority required IMO.

Someone is confused.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. "50 percent of the parents whose children are enrolled at the school"
Still confused today. The half of the half mentioned in the newspaper article is not the same as "50 percent of the parents whose children are enrolled at the school."

I will look for more info today, but that half of a half of the households does not seem the same thing.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
23. Wow, a local blogger spares them not at all.
http://www.lakelandlocal.com/2011/05/time-for-the-stop-... /

"It seems Scott Lake Elementary has joined the chorus of snooty Lakelanders trying to seize taxpayer-constructed public buildings for their private schools.

Now, I have long considered the states school grading system stupid and more or less riggedthe formula for grading changes every year, according to political needbut Scott Lake has been an A school for the last couple of years. Obviously, its failing miserably under the collectivist leadership and management of the School District.

Heres the money euphemism:

Wizda said Thursday that faculty members are driving the change so they can have more instructional choices.

Riiiiiiigggghtttttt. Translation: We want to make our already easy kids easier to teach, make sure the unwashed dont contaminate them, and then get rewarded for it."

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