Bin Laden's wife not human shield and did not die. Was he even armed?

[EFerrari]

Bin Laden's wife not killed in raid, White House says

2 hrs 24 mins ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – A woman killed during the raid of Osama bin Laden's compound in Pakistan was not his wife and was not used as a human shield by the al Qaeda leader before his death, a U.S. official said on Monday, correcting an earlier description.

John Brennan, President Barack Obama's top counter- terrorism adviser, told reporters earlier that the slain woman had been one of bin Laden's wives and had been used -- perhaps voluntarily -- as a shield during the firefight.

However, a different White House official said that account had turned out not to be the case. Bin Laden's wife was injured but not killed in the assault.

U.S. officials have said a small U.S. strike team, dropped by helicopter to bin Laden's hide-out near the Pakistani capital of Islamabad under cover of night, shot the al Qaeda leader dead with bullets to the chest and head. He did not return fire.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110502/wl_nm/us_binladen_usa_wife_2

No more at link.

I guess it will be a while before the story sorts itself out.

[eShirl]

1. maybe there was more than one wife

[bobbolink]

2. ya think? ^_^

[blondeatlast]

6. This. /\ nt

[jbnow]

22. They said youngest wife identified his body, that she was there

They were pretty specific about her... that she married him at 17 ten years ago. Maybe because she was still alive to give the info?
But even on the lady who was shot he said he thinks she was his wife.
But didn't sound vague claiming she was a shield.

Not surprised to hear conflicting reports this soon... but I hope it is true that they captured all of the other people and did not kill them, besides the deaths reported

[MercuryRepeater]

63. one wife was killed downstairs. the one upstairs with Bin Laden was shot in the leg.

[aquart]

3. Really? Then what was she doing in the bedroom with him?

[EFerrari]

5. Maybe she lived there?

[orpupilofnature57]

4. I guess

[handmade34]

7. I heard reported that

there was cross fire and the one women (not wife) died in that fire. There was return fire but it did not come from Bin Laden. (just what I heard in all the talk and suppositions that are bouncing around today)

[EFerrari]

9. I just now read that version on twitter

but this story is what I actually found myself.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

10. I hope he wasn't armed... and suffered a couple well-placed caps in the chest

as he cowered in the corner, just before being finished off with one to the head.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

13. ...

[whatchamacallit]

14. ... too

hope you got to read it.

[jefferson_dem]

19. I read it and it was properly deleted ... for being tasteless sick fuckery.

[whatchamacallit]

25. The "tasteless sick fuckery" is

your loving depiction of violence. I asked because you seemed to be enjoying yourself a bit too much.

[uppityperson]

20. !!!!!

[Botany]

16. my brother works for the Navy in D.C. and was ...

... around the Pentagon on 9/11 ..... he lost some friends on that day too.

My only question is why OBL has got to suck oxygen for so long after 9/11?

Are you touching yourself right now? :puke:

[tallahasseedem]

39. Word.

I was actually hoping that he suffered, but apparently not.

[Botany]

12. Was he even armed?

Yes, he had two of them which is reason enough to kill him.

[EFerrari]

17. When I shell out that kind of money, I like to know what I bought. n/t

[Botany]

21. lots & lots & lots of Money ..... no doubt

and zillions of $s in waste too .....but you also helped to buy NAVY SEALS ..... and when they show up to kill you
that is what they do.

navy seals :patriot:

[bhikkhu]

15. After the thousands that he killed, I'm not too concerned

I'm against capital punishment in principle, but I have to be honest to myself that I'm ok with him getting killed. At least it was apparently quick, and it was "in battle" or something of the sort.

Anyone who teaches people to hate, and who takes it to the extent of recruiting the poor and the young to become suicide bombers, while living in perfumed luxury himself, is off my sympathy list.

[EFerrari]

18. I posted an update to a story, not a request for sympathy?

[bhikkhu]

23. Just my input on the "was he armed" question

I think he was, based on the long coverage about how it all went down that they had on NPR. But on the other hand, if he wasn't it doesn't really change much for me.

I'm glad that they didn't get the wrong guy, again, and that they treated his body with care afterwards.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. "was he even armed?"

C'mon. You make him sound like a baby seal, about to be clubbed.

[EFerrari]

33. That's your projection. I wanted to know if he had a weapon.

And now we've know he didn't.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. And what is it you think that means?

C'mon. Finish the thought.

[EFerrari]

41. Do you not want to know what happened?

I want to know who was there, who had guns, who got hit, who was killed, what was done with the survivors and the bodies.

Now trying to assemble an accurate picture of the event is showing sympathy to bin Laden? That's absurd.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. I want to know if they got Skin-imax on that satellite dish.

No, really, actually I don't think it matters whether he was armed or not. If he was in bed, he probably wasn't.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabrina 1]

92. Of course it matters, to anyone who cares about

our so-called claims of being the moral arbiters of the world.

Others outside our own insulated sphere will definitely be asking why the US, who each year takes the responsibility of issueing 'reports' on the behavior of other countries wrt to human rights and justice etc, had an opportunity, assuming he was not armed, to take an accused (ACCUSED NEVER TRIED OR CONVICTED sorry to shout, but there appears to be a total lack of concern, a willful deafness and blindness to the fact that there are laws and rules of war to which we are signatories and which we preach to the rest of the world) murderer into custody.

If he was unarmed, then why was he not taken into custody, will be the question asked by those who exist outside the small world we in the US inhabit.

It's a shame that some Amercians believe that we are free to behave in any way we wish and should never be questioned at all. That was Bush policy and we elected Democrats in order to 'change' that arrogant attitude. An attitude that has caused us to be viewed as the biggest threat to world peace on the planet.

I know we like to say 'fuck you' to the world, it makes us seem all tough and everything, but there are consequences for such an attitude, which the realists among us are very aware of.

[Warren DeMontague]

95. If you fly planes into buildings and kill over 3,000 innocent people, you have to expect a bullet

His behavior was idiotic. I hope he's learned his lesson.

[Kurovski]

109. And if you build military bases on sacred ground, things won't be much better.

I can imagine if A Muslim Saudi prince decided to build his heavily armed palace in the front yard of a mega-church in Alabama.

Fuckhead Osama Bin Ladin told us quite plainly what was coming if we didn't stop shitting on what Muslims consider sacred, and he told us how we could get him to back off.

But for some new pals on this thread, facts don't matter. I thought they did for you, Warren. I'm betting that they really do.

But I understand what it's like being pissed off in the moment. Personally, it's my elixir.

[Warren DeMontague]

119. The reference in that post was specific to a particular conversation.

Like some guy once said, "there's the conversation, there's the conversation behind the conversation, and then there's the conversation behind that. That's the conversation I'm really interested in."

No, Kurovski, I respect your take even if I may not share it, and I'm familiar with some of the facts you mention.

However, it's my opinion that Bin Laden had his own agenda, just as many geo-political players and would-be players do. I'm not convinced it was any "one thing" we did which led to the attacks.

But- and I'm asking this in total sincerity, no snark intended- for the sake of my memory; could you list out the specific actions you believe the US and/or its allies would have had to have taken for Bin Laden to really not have attacked us on 9-11? Just get the bases out of Saudi Arabia? Anything else?

[Kurovski]

139. Maybe not plunder their natural resources? Maybe contesting Bush's "win" in 2001.

I'm not defending anything the dead criminal did. I know nothing happens in a vacuum.

Here's the most important things to me right now about all of this: I'm glad Osama is gone. I'm glad Obama is president, I'm glad the youth of the M.E. don't buy into lines of bullshit in the same way youth in America do not. And I look forward to the New Era in the M.E..

I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you.

[BzaDem]

123. Really? We should negotiate/capitulate with terrorists, as if 9/11 is some sort of object

of negotiation (where if we back off completely legal bases, he'll back off of mass murder)?

If you believe this stuff should be negotiated, how about something like "if you mass murder Americans, you can and should expect a bullet to the head?"

[happyslug]

24. You all assuming bin Laden did NOT want to be killed

One aspect of someone like bid Laden, a radical, is death is NOT something to avoid, but something to look forward to IF IT HELPS YOUR CAUSE. Could it have been bin Laden himself who leaked his location, and then waited for the US to kill him? Did he see himself as a Martyr, whose death can rally people around his followers and overthrow the Governments of Afghanistan and Pakistan? We have used such deaths in the past for such slogans "Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember Pearl harbor" are just three I can think up on the top of my head. Some Fanatics have done this in the past, lead a charge knowing they will die, but also knowing they death will rally more support for their cause.

I would be less concern if this was during the Raining season or winter, but it is spring and the US Forces in Afghanistan have already announced they have seen signs of a Spring Taliban Offensive. A rallying cry would be very useful to the Taliban in Afghanistan AND bin Laden's followers in Pakistan and to a limited degree in Saudi Arabia (Through most of the Opposition in Arabia is Shiite not Sunni and bin Laden was a Sunni who looked down on the Shiites of Arabia as well as the Shiite Government of Iran).

Just a comment, given the indication of a Spring offensive in Afghanistan and worse problems in Pakistan and the Persian Gulf States.

[EFerrari]

27. I'm actually not assuming that at all, although, given all the opportunities

to blow himself up that he bypassed, it's probably a pretty safe assumption. He seems to have been good at getting other people killed.

You bring up an interesting question about how this event will work in Afghanistan.

[Kurovski]

140. Modus operandi for Stochastic terrorists.

Osama reminded me of at least the title in that Rita Hayworth movie, "I Want to Live".

[DirkGently]

36. True. The U.S. may once have again been manipulated into doing exactly what Osama hoped.

[Warren DeMontague]

49. Oooooh. Crafty.

That's some deep strategic planning on the part of the now-dead guy.

[DirkGently]

68. Guy'd been out of the news for years. Organization crumbling. Now a front-page martyr .

From the start, Al Quaeda's strategy has been to provoke a big response from the U.S. Get American troops on Muslim soil. Get the Holy War burning nice and bright. Worked great, since there was nothing more Republican leadership wanted than an excuse to roll tanks into Oil Country anyway. And the peole were easily brought along.

Arresting him, charging him as a criminal, would have been humiliating. Martyring the guy thrills the masses on both sides, drawing the predictable America-fuck-yeah response on one side, and providing a another story of massive American force directed on an (apparently unarmed) Muslim enemy on the other.

Nothing a religious fanatic wants more than to die at the hands of the unbelievers.

So, yeah, "crafty." Crafty enough to get us to elevate him to exactly the status he likely dreamed of.

[Warren DeMontague]

86. I doubt it. I suspect, like most megalomaniac sociopaths, he was, at heart, a coward.

Saddam cowering in his rat-hole, Hitler trying to hide behind Goering's leg during the Beer Hall Putsch.

These assholes are deeply in love with, and protective of, the only person they give a shit about in the whole world.

Themselves.

[doc03]

26. I don't give a flying f--. n/t

[DirkGently]

28. WH has now confirmed OBL was not armed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42882664/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/

[EFerrari]

29. Thanks. I read this morning that there were a number of his kids

there, too. They seem to be in custody in Pakistan right now.

[JVS]

34. Thank GAWD he won't be on trial where he can talk about his relationship with the CIA!

[BREMPRO]

81. i think that calculated into the "kill at any resistance" order..

Seems that there was not much of an effort to capture him... and what if they did capture him and somthing went wrong and he got free? now imagine the show trial,, the propaganda platform he would have for months/ years enless press for and about him... the appeals... I'm not one to support extrajudicial killing.. but i think in his case... since he declared war on us long ago.. not a head of state but a known terrorist... justified. Better to just shoot the evil bastard and dump his body (properly) in the ocean....

[Cleita]

31. It will be awhile before we find out what really happened.

I do believe the Obama administration is trying to be as transparent as possible without giving away our national security and exposing those involved in covert operations.

[RoadRage]

32. Were any of those on the planes, in the twin towers or the pentagon ARMED

on 09/11? No - I don't think they were.. so we're even here.

If you don't want to be shot un-armed.. don't kill 3,000 innocent Americans, mmmmkay?

[EFerrari]

35. This OP must have "come swing it over here" all over it.

lol

[Kurovski]

105. DU is making so many new friends.

It must be because we won the State Championship. It sure can't be the cafeteria food.

[EFerrari]

110. The liquor store across the street sells to anybody, too.

[Kurovski]

114. Ahh. I'm down with that.

Want to split a Night Train? I got my brother's ID, just in case

[EFerrari]

117. If that comes with a SlimJim, I'm in.

:loveya:

[chill_wind]

38. Could be that it was one of his bodyguards that shot him

according to his wishes, if the moment ever came.

http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2011/05/killing-bin-laden-lies-fabrications-and.html

Could be that no American bullet got him first, but whatever happened, it will probably be a long time, if ever we find out whether things all happened according to the American Hollywood movie script version.

[EFerrari]

43. That's very true. And since Pakistan has been hiding its hand

in this whole event, we might find out something in that direction,too.

[chill_wind]

40. White House has revised their account. Bin Laden not armed.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/03/us-binladen-shootout-idUSTRE7425U020110503

[Broderick]

47. Careful

Any questions or scrutiny or posting what is being reported about the story changing brings in the cabal of wrath upon oneself. Haha.

[chill_wind]

58. LOL. I know. WH changing it's own facts and account of things as it goes is not my problem.

Fuck the diehards who don't like having any of their illusions messed with :-)

[Broderick]

60. It ain't me just saying the official story morphed.

or officials have changed their story, it's the global news services reporting it. Reuters, to Yahoo, to MSNBC, to BBC, etc. Shrug. But, I guess I will have to take anonymous internet poster's word on things. HAHA.

[chill_wind]

61. I know what you meant. :-) I don't think we're in any disagreement

that the WH story has morphed- and that daring to notice it seems to be upsetting some people's perfect notions and whole worlds.

[calimary]

80. And in his case, we care that he wasn't armed because...

?

Not sure I understand the dilemma here.

It was Osama bin Laden forcryingoutloud.

[chill_wind]

94. We simply care that officials are having trouble keeping their stories straight.

They are the ones who watched it happen. If there's any dilemma, it's their tangle of self-contradictions, not mine.

[EFerrari]

102. It's not that he was or wasn't armed that matters, to me anyway,

but determining which was the case. People are putting too much weight on that question. At the time I asked it, it was being presumed that he was, that's all.

There are a lot of more interesting questions that are still open in this, one of the biggest stories of our lifetime. The ones around his arrangements with Pakistan, ours, for example.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. LEAVE BIN LADEN ALONE!!!

....What? Someone was going to do it.

[EFerrari]

46. No, I think that's just you.

[Warren DeMontague]

48. Okay, it's just me.

LEAVE BIN LADEN ALONE! PLEASE!

[EFerrari]

54. Oh, I get it. You're pissed because my guess was right.

You do know that initial reports always have wrong information in them, don't you?

[WolverineDG]

45. Does it matter?

He killed over 3000 people on 9/11, & you're wringing your hands over the possibility that he was unarmed?

:eyes:

dg

[EFerrari]

51. How is trying to track down accurate information "hand wringing"?

Really?

Is there anything that isn't "hand wringing" at the moment? Maybe some dick swinging or some drunken chanting or something?

[WolverineDG]

57. why care whether he was armed or not?

or whether he was shot by his own body guards? Regardless of how it happened, he's gone.

dg

[EFerrari]

59. Of course I'm interested in all the details.

This is the most anticipated apprehension in the last decade in a crime that changed our entire culture.

:wtf:

[WolverineDG]

69. riiiiiight

*now* you're interested in details. Rather amusing.

dg

[EFerrari]

75. Did you even read the OP?

What is it with you people here today?

The OP was posted to catch changes in the official story.

[WolverineDG]

98. Oh, I've read several of your OPs

let's just say I've noticed a trend in which "facts" you want to get straight & which you don't.

dg

[EFerrari]

99. Yes, those would be the ones that interest me.

I've no bloody idea what you're getting at. If there's a problem, turn me into the Thought Police before any kittens are injured.

[Art_from_Ark]

122. Oh, that was priceless

"Turn me into the Thought Police before any kittens are injured"

:thumbsup:

[WolverineDG]

124. "No bloody idea" Really? That just proves my point nt

[EFerrari]

126. What is your point?

I do exactly the same thing whenever a big story breaks. I track the official story.

You really don't have to dig very hard to find people attacking Obama. They're all over the fucking place. I'm not doing that. Have a nice day.

[chill_wind]

55. "Handwringing"- or simply testing the uncontested truthiness

of our government officials and our oh-so-reliable Washington media? In everything WOT, we've learned fully well to expect lies and inconsistencies after 10 years of experience with them.

Asking questions. Why's that a problem?

[timesup]

50. I'll say it....

OMG! He's an innocent man you murdered! (feel better?)
----------
Dead or alive was surely the order, but this isn't play time.
Any resistance = shot under these circumstances, and these tools stated long ago that they would
never be taken alive and had given orders to be killed if it came to that, by their own people.
Any resistance at all was fatal, I can live with it.

[EFerrari]

52. It's was probably just dead, not dead or alive.

And the avalanche of projective bullshit says a great deal more about you than about me. :)

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

82. You haven't been here very long. Maybe you should go check

the forum rules. Have a good night.

[Kurovski]

111. timesup is a good name for you.

[EFerrari]

56. Have to go walk this puppy but this NYTs run down seems to be

the most detailed one out so far. It talks about what was happening on different floors and even hints at a time span for the operation:

snip

“On the first floor of Bin Laden’s building, two Al Qaeda couriers were killed along with a woman who was killed in cross-fire,” Mr. Carney said. “Bin Laden and his family were found on the second and third floor of the building. There was concern that Bin Laden would oppose the capture operation, and indeed he resisted.”

snip

“We were able to monitor the situation in real time and were able to have regular updates and to ensure that we had real-time visibility into the progress of the operation,” Mr. Brennan told reporters on Monday.

But on Tuesday, Leon E. Panetta, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency, said in an interview on the “Newshour” on PBS that “once those teams went into the compound, I can tell you there was a time period of almost 20 to 25 minutes where we really didn’t know just exactly what was going on, and there were some very tense moments as we were waiting for information.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/white-house-corrects-bin-laden-narrative/?hp

[MercuryRepeater]

62. The Police kill hundreds annually because they mistakenly think they are armed.

Do you really expect a Seal in a firefight to wait to get shot before reacting??

Bin Laden was not waving a white flag.

[EFerrari]

64. Whoooooooosh. When I posted this, the implication was that he was armed.

Since I posted, we've found out he was not. Any more questions?

[MercuryRepeater]

65. what is your point?? armed or not, there was still justification for firing.

[EFerrari]

67. What is your point? And who is challenging that justification?

I'm gathering facts on this thread. If you find one, feel free to post it.

[coalition_unwilling]

135. Here's a modest proposal for you then: let's just execute

everyone accused of a capital crime without bothering with such niceties as a trial or counsel.

:sarcasm:

Welcome to my Ignore list.

[hulka38]

66. Is that an actual SEAL rule of engagement;

shoot if target isn't waving a white flag?

[MercuryRepeater]

70. Shoot if target appears to be going for a gun.

They don't have to wait for Osama to start firing.

I suppose you would have just taken one for the team to make sure, right?

[hulka38]

74. Is that the latest official version of the story?

OBL went for his gun after his human-shield-wife got out of the way or was she still in the way?

[Kurovski]

104. Even if you work on a school newspaper, facts still count.

Even if you think the principal is a mother fucker, you don't get to make up facts.

[cliffordu]

72. Don't matter.

[EFerrari]

76. To you. n/t

[Kurovski]

112. Cliffordu, dude, some people write for a living or avocation. I used to get printed

regularly. If I based the writing on misinformation I would've got a shit reputation and would not have seen print.

It's true, it doesn't matter to you what the facts are, because that bastard is gone. You're not alone in that. But again, some people need facts, for whatever form that writing takes.

[KoKo]

73. Yes...it usually takes awhile...sometimes even years. But, in this case

it seems more contradictions are coming out earlier. Maybe Obama is letting his sychophantic Neo/Con/Libs put pressers out and fall all over themselves before he Axes Them. We could wish.

But, who knows. Reminds me too much of the Bush Years..the disinfo and leaks and stuff.

Let's hope his 12th or whatever Dimension Chess Game plays out. He seemed to be very wise in this move with Bin Laden. Even though us Legacy DU'ers know that Bin Laden really didn't do "9/11" ...as Bin Laden himself said.

[Canuckistanian]

77. An unarmed man against 30 Navy Seals?

Sounds like a fair fight to me.

This was assassination. Osama bin Laden was more valuable ALIVE.

But I do realize the importance of preventing a focal point for extremist rage.

But the whole bloodlust and rejoicing here turns me cold.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Canuckistanian]

84. Well, it's only logical

Unless absolutely everything is known about a suspect, from his movements to his associates to his motives - killing him is.... premature, to say the least.

Thanks for the support.

[cherokeeprogressive]

85. A living Bin Hidin' in American custody would have cost American lives.

Yes it surely would have. Somewhere in the world there would have been radical Muslims targeting American citizens for capture, torture, and murder as a way of trying to leverage his release.

Fuck him.

[Canuckistanian]

89. I have no doubt of that

bin Laden was a hot potato. The longer they kept him, dead or alive, the worse it would have been.

If the US were a supporter of the World Court, they could have turned him over to them.

Unfortunately, the US seems to have it's own set of international laws. And the rest of the world is starting to regret it.

[derby378]

78. Osama was always shown with that stubby AK-74 at his side

I'd be very surprised if he didn't keep some arms at his complex. Pakistan still has a lucrative gray-market arms industry.

[EFerrari]

83. It would be very surprising if there wasn't all kinds of weapons

in the compound.

[Obamanaut]

87. Do we really care if he was even armed? Whether he was or was not, the

end result is/was the same.

Assuming the report of his demise is true.

[EFerrari]

90. Well, I care that my government present me with

a factual account of actions it does in my name, yes. :)

[EFerrari]

88. Nic Robertson at the site itself (video)

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/05/03/exp.cnn.robertson.obl.compound.cnn

[EFerrari]

91. This is a long round up with many links.from ProPublica

Bin Laden Reading Guide: How to Cut Through the Coverage

The best coverage.
by Marian Wang and Braden Goyette, ProPublica


The death of Osama bin Laden has sent news organizations scrambling for details on how it happened, where it happened, and what it all means.

We’ve rounded up some of the best coverage, being careful to note what’s been said, what’s already being disputed, and what still remains to be seen.


http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/bin-laden-reading-guide-how-to-cut-through-the-coverage/Content?oid=2226469

[tekisui]

106. Thanks!

[EFerrari]

108. I was thinking of putting that up all by itself as an OP

but the dick swinging is exhausting so I won't. It's a great collection. :thumbsup:

[tekisui]

113. True on all points.

:hi:

[Kurovski]

115. I'd say I'll take the load, but I have a headache.

Really. I do. Honest, honey. :rofl:

[EFerrari]

116. LOL

Our business is going to go to hell, so do I!

:rofl:

[Kurovski]

118. I blame the monitor.

Better reduce the contrast.

[backscatter712]

93. Another DUer beat me to quoting William Munny from Unforgiven:

Little Bill Daggett: Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!
Will Munny: Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77HM1tF2WcM

Osama bin Laden should have armed himself if he's going to kill 3,000 innocent civilians...

Count me on the side approving of bin Laden's death, even if he was shot in the back of the head execution-style. The subhuman fuck had it coming!

[EFerrari]

120. That's very nice. But this thread has nothing to do with

if OBL should have been shot or not or if he should have been shot while he was unarmed.

[RegieRocker]

96. Was he even armed? Who gives a rats ass? Other people in the compound

were. The people in 9-11 weren't.

[Alamuti Lotus]

97. and it was probably the Sheikh's own bodyguards who shot him

based on orders he issued long ago.

Yeah, the various official versions of the story are changing so much as to be hardly recognizable or compatible already. That the wailing cacaphony now bleets "why do the facts matter?" is an unfortunately predictable side-effect of the American public being so well trained at not only greeting lies from authority with acceptance, but happiness. They really love big brother, and thank god he took out Goldstein!

:hi: EFerrari!

[EFerrari]

100. LOL. Have you been watching Tariq Ali's interviews?

He was on Amy's yesterday and Laura Flander's today. He had some interesting ideas about this, especially with respect to Pakistan's involvement and so on.

:hi:

[TK421]

101. one does not normally return fire when shot in the chest and head

one normally dies

[AtomicKitten]

103. Rachel advised people to not rest their case on tidbits of info lest they be made fools.

The real story is still unfolding.

[EFerrari]

107. Did she? It's good advice. n/t

[CJvR]

121. I think Clint...

...sums it up fairly accurately.

He should have armed himself if he was going to have airliners flown into the WTC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccqdEhytKOk

[EFerrari]

127. That's very nice and it has nothing to do with

keeping track of what we know and what we don't know.

[apples and oranges]

125. Millions of innocent people died Sunday, many through violent means

Shouldn't our concern be reserved for them?

[EFerrari]

128. You're free to be concerned with anything you like.

For now, I'm interested in the biggest story of the year. I hope that's all right with you but if it isn't, that's the way it goes. :)

[Moondog]

129. I could not care less. He's dead. And he had it coming. n/t

[EFerrari]

132. Well, that's a nice change from the rat's ass.

lol

[Moondog]

134. Heh. Breeding always tells.

[EFerrari]

136. You bet!

:hi:

[EFerrari]

130. Al Arabiya's story about the daughter.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/05/04/147782.html

[EFerrari]

131. The Reuters photos (first ones out)

http://www.reuters.com/article/slideshow?articleId=USTRE74370620110504&slide=1

[slackmaster]

133. Wow, Rosie Huntington-Whiteley is HAWT!

Thanks for the link!

[EFerrari]

137. No firefight.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1040028

[EFerrari]

138. 80 troops and a dog.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1040430

[Kurovski]

141. Since this OP was created, the media itself has pointed out the things that EFerrari has.

...questioning all the changing facts, as it were.

I commend her for paying attention and asking questions.