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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 02:50 PM
Original message
TOON: Draft Hillary


Ouch. :popcorn:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. lol
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 03:27 PM by AtomicKitten
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Cigar11 Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. 

How did that Hope and Change work for her?

Its amazing what one Man can do all by himself.

Now imagine what could be done if Republican were out of the way and if Democrats were Democrats!
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Obama accomplished a great deal in his 2.5 years than Clinton did
and I mean progressive change from actually passing HCR and doing away with DADT. He also has moved us out of Iraq. I don't know how a HCR presidency would have gone and neither does anybody else. But Obama deserves a great deal more praise than he has gotten. Secretary Clinton has done a great job in her position.
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_eh Donating Member (161 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Hillary would be a more hated President than Obama among the wingnuts
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. And here at DU
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
99. The wingnuts hated Bill, too-and he wasn't on our side, either.
Being "hated by the wingnuts" doesn't mean a damn thing, by itself.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
114. That's a dubious claim.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. His HCR bill was a total disaster for Democrats, it lost us
the House.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. So it was better to pass nothing?
Voters staying home lost us the House.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Seems as though it would have been much better to do nothing
and voters stayed home because they expected Hope and Change and got more of the same.
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Cigar11 Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Voters staying home got us ...
the Tea party nut-jobs in congress.

and wouldn't have been able to see the GOP Circus Show for President. LOL
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Midterm elections always favor the opposition party.
Ask a political scientist...

They stayed home because many don't pay attention except to presidential elections and they don't understand how government works.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. agreed
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Not always. Republicans made gains in the House and Senate in 2002
Democrats gained seats in the House in 1998.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
42. True.
But every-other election going back to 1934 supports that trend to some extent. 1998 and 2002 were also small gains.

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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #42
113. There certainly is a trend. But the use of the word 'always' makes it an incorrect argument
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Not sure the basis of comparison here
The topic was a Clinton presidency. Not sure what that has to do with Alito and Roberts.

If your basis of comparison is a GOP candidacy, it should be noted that Obama himself described his HCR bill as "not all that different" from a GOP proposal. He also kept on Gates from the Bush administration to execute the Bush SOFA. Gitmo has changed little from the final days of the Bush administration, and Obama personally declared that he "had the backs" of the CIA members that committed acts of torture within the limits created by Bush. He increased the troop levels in Afghanistan, something McCain suggested might need to be done.

The largest differences were probably that Obama signed a budget his first year that the GOP never would. He bailed out the auto companies where the GOP probably never would. And he passed a stimulus package that had fewer tax cuts than the GOP would have passed.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Voters who stayed home were short-sighted and foolish. Period.
Anyone who thinks the way to get more Progressive policy in place is to help default Congress to the GOP Tea Party is not thinking clearly.

As the POTUS has tried repeatedly to point out, several core policies enriching human rights and protections began in much less comprehensive form than what they later became.

If people can't grasp the idea that you have to start SOMEWHERE, then I guess they'll just keep (non) voting against their long-term interests.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
37. People with preexisting conditions beg to differ.
Also kids up to age 26 can remain on their parents' policy.

Just a few goodies in the bill that make the bill much, much better than nothing.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
55. I personally know someone that has a preexisting condition
of diabetes, the only insurance he can find is $23,000 a year and that is now after the HCR bill. He has no choice but take a chance on not having insurance, he pays nearly $1000 per month for medication.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. He should drop his insurance and apply for PCIP.
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 07:50 PM by ellisonz
Effective June 21, 2010

Adults with pre-existing conditions became eligible to join a temporary high-risk pool, which will be superseded by the health care exchange in 2014.<36><41> To qualify for coverage, applicants must have a pre-existing health condition and have been uninsured for at least the past six months.<42> There is no age requirement.<42> The new program sets premiums as if for a standard population and not for a population with a higher health risk. Allows premiums to vary by age (4:1), geographic area, and family composition. Limit out-of-pocket spending to $5,950 for individuals and $11,900 for families, excluding premiums.<42><43><44>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Aff...

Question: Who is eligible for Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan?
Answer: To be eligible for the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan,

You must be a citizen or national of the United States or reside in the U.S. legally.
You must have been without health coverage for at least the last six months. Please note that if you currently have insurance coverage that doesnt cover your medical condition or are enrolled in a state high risk pool, you are not eligible for the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan.
You must have a pre-existing condition or have been denied coverage because of your health condition.

https://www.pcip.gov /


Effective by January 1, 2014

Insurers are prohibited from discriminating against or charging higher rates for any individuals based on pre-existing medical conditions.<36><70>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Aff...

They hate this bill for reason - we passed just about everything we wanted up to a full public option.

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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. He doesn't carry insurance because they want $23000 a year
that he can't pay. According to your own post one of the conditions is you must have a pre-existing condition or have been denied coverage because of the health condition. He does have a pre-existing condition but he hasn't been denied, he was offered insurance for $23,000 a year. It has been a few months since I spoke to him about it but he said at that time he tried and no such coverage was available for him under the HCR bill. Maybe he has to many assets to qualify or something. You know many of those government programs are geared to people that have no assets and if you have any you are out of luck until you have liquidated everything. The only thing he could get was a policy for $23,000. As far as I know he still has no coverage.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Hmm...
The way I read it he's still eligible. He has a pre-existing condition - doesn't matter if he was offered insurance at a ludicrous amount. He should apply and see if he can get it anyways.

Beginning in 2014 out-of pocket costs will be capped for people with up to %400 of the Federal poverty level.

Re-elect the President and get a strong Democratic progress and we can pass more and better reform :shrug:

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #55
80. Just imagine people with no insurance diagnosed with cancer.
I can barely wrap my head around it.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
115. Obama would have been better served by focusing on the economy instead of HCR.
Edited on Tue Nov-29-11 08:55 AM by JVS
HCR took a lot of time and he had to go back on a lot of things he campaigned on with that. Meanwhile the recovery failed to materialize, especially in employment. For a population that is suffering with a lot of unemployment and underemployment, shoring up a health insurance system based on the employer provided model but with the addition of individual mandates is not a relieving prospect.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #115
147. The two are very much interlinked.
Plus it's not like the GOP would allow a WPA or CCC type program. I think the real problem is people's short attention spans.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. Do you honestly think if the unemployment rate was 5%, we would have lost?
It is rarely possible to say definitively what the main cause is, but there is no doubt that the economy was the biggest issue.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
62. No, what lost us the House was liberal reticence toward the Tea Party.
The Tea Party got out 9% more votes than we did. NINE PERCENT.

Since the vote was similar to the 2006 vote, technically the Tea Party got out 15% or more votes than we did, because we stayed home in large numbers.

Liberals are responsible for GOTV, political diehards are responsible for GOTV. And we failed.
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Ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
108. That and supporting massive gun-control
Thank God though. No way he wins re-election in 1996 if the Democrats held onto the House and Senate in 1994. Newt scarred the people badly, and hurt Dole in the process.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Basically agree
I'm not all that thrilled with his accomplishments, but I don't really think Hillary would have been "better". To a great degree, this has been another Clinton/DLC presidency. I'm sure things would have been "different" but I'm dubious it would have been any more popular around here. It may have avoided losing the House, but at what cost might not be fully understood. I do suspect we would have been out of Iraq earlier, and that we wouldn't have had nearly the build up in Afghanistan. Alternately I don't think we'd be any further on with Gitmo, and I suspect she would have done something very similar in Libya.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. Agreed. And Democrats should NOT enjoy seeing this meme in the MSM.
It's not helpful. It may tickle some PUMAs, but it gives the GOP a little help making Dems look like an indecisive bunch.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. The right wing propaganda continues.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. No kidding. A RW dream scenario
They'll use it to stoke PUMA fires since they can't run a decent candidate.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Exactly. Lacking any ideas or candidates ... the right needs to try
and reduce Democratic turn out ... and this is simply part of that effort.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ha, ha, ha!!!!!
This should be good.

:popcorn:



:rofl:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
33. You know what's really funny?
You'd be doing a quadruple lutz with back-flips defending Hillary if she did win the presidency. Now instead you're kicking back, sipping a Mai Tai, and trash-talking President Obama here 24/7. Cool gig I guess, but I much prefer and am glad Obama is president.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
68. To each his own............
:shrug:


Ciao, got to go back to my Mai Tai.



:7
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. That actually looks pretty good. nt
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Here, it's on me.


:hi:
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-11 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #33
153. You said it!!! n/t
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
101. ah yes
Part of me really would love to check out the parallel universe where Hillary won, but then again, I would have to read Jane hamsher defend the president's decision to go to war with Iran and to continue her husband's idea of Social Security compromise, you know, the one he had to give up on because he got caught with an intern?

http://www.thenation.com/article/153866/married-clinton...
http://phoenixwoman.wordpress.com/2010/05/04/thank-god-... /


Enjoy yourself, but keep in mind, Obama is a disappointment not because he did not act like Hillary, but because he acted TOO much like Hillary.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #101
117. You don't know how Hillary would have acted once in office.
What I'm laughing at is the disappointment of those who thought that Obama would be any different from the other politicians who came down the pike. What made them think so? His florid speeches full of empty platitudes of hope & change? Or was it because he thought of himself as being transformational? Remember when he compared Reagan & Clinton? Maybe I'm cynical, but what I saw was a guy who wanted to fast track up the political ladder and would say anything to get elected. Well, he got his wish. IMO, to the detriment of the nation.

:(
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #117
136. Neither do you yet you pontificate here as if you do.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #136
138. Wow, I have my own personal stalker.
You got nothing else to do with your day than follow me around the board?

:7
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-11 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #138
154. Hardly. You've been told this before in the past. By many. n/t
Edited on Wed Nov-30-11 06:48 AM by vaberella
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-11 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #117
152. No..
But then prepare to bear your end of the burden, the idea that we were going to get a leftist government from the Duo that, more than anyone else, had shifted the Democratic party to the right? We were going to see the end of DADT from the architect of DADT? We were going to see regulations put in place by the ones that had killed Glass-Steagall? We were going to see the Fairness doctrine brought back by the folks that brought us that horrid Telecommunications act? The Clintons (and yes, as they said all along, they were a package deal) were a known quantity, and not what we needed.


We did not need to see if Hillary would move to the right, we saw it back when she ran the country with Bill. Granted, if she fired Mark Penn and told her husband to please please please shut his bloody mouth, I might have thought different, but then again, that could have been a play. But how did you expect people to believe that the person that helped change the democratic party into Center-right would actually suddenly change?
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Sub Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
19. Draft Barney Frank instead.
A sane voice in the insane asylum we currently have would be refreshing.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
45. Barney Frank is old and just wants to go back to his home library.
He's had enough of the headache :-)
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
23. And if she HAD won, the posters would've had OBAMA'S face on them, no doubt. n/t
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, doncha know?
:hi:
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Yup. That's how it's always been and how it'll always be.
:hi:
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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
54. I think Hillary would have been a great president and I think Obama has been a great president (eom)
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #54
111. Thanks
and both would have been better than Mccain.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
25. woozla, ploozla
Tuzla!

lol. If Obama came anywhere near that stupidity he would have been buried before he was inaugerated.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
43. *snort*
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 05:46 PM by AtomicKitten
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. oh now you did it, I had to search for this one:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #50
78. priceless!!
:spray:
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
75. Enjoy..........
"When I meet with world leaders, what's striking -- whether it's in Europe or here in Asia..." -mistakenly referring to Hawaii as Asia while holding a press conference outside Honolulu, Nov. 16, 2011

"We're the country that built the Intercontinental Railroad." Cincinnati, OH, Sept. 22, 2011

"One such translator was an American of Haitian descent, representative of the extraordinary work that our men and women in uniform do all around the world -- Navy Corpse-Man Christian Brossard." mispronouncing "Corpsman" (the "ps" is silent) during a speech at the National Prayer Breakfast, Washington, D.C., Feb. 5, 2010 (The Corpsman's name is also Christopher, not Christian)

"The Middle East is obviously an issue that has plagued the region for centuries." --Tampa, Fla., Jan. 28, 2010

"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems." attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug. 11, 2009

"I've now been in 57 states -- I think one left to go." --at a campaign event in Beaverton, Oregon

"In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died -- an entire town destroyed." --on a Kansas tornado that killed 12 people

"On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes -- and I see many of them in the audience here today -- our sense of patriotism is particularly strong."

"Just this past week, we passed out of the U.S. Senate Banking Committee -- which is my committee -- a bill to call for divestment from Iran as way of ratcheting up the pressure to ensure that they don't obtain a nuclear weapon." --referring to a committee he is not on, Sderot, Israel, July 23, 2008

Let me know if you want more, there's oodles of them.

:D
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. If accurate, those are gaffes. What she did was flat-out lie. Big difference and voters agreed.
That pretty much settles it.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. Nope, his list is far longer than hers.
;-)
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. Yet he's president and she's not, your list-making notwithstanding.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. Ohhh, we are so lucky.
Please..........

:eyes:
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #81
104. and all of that
does not undo voting for the Iraq War, or threatening to OBLITERATE IRAN even if they did not attack America.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #104
120. The question was what would she do if Iran attacked Israel with NUCLEAR weapons.
Guess what? Any US president would order retaliation.

:shrug:
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #75
124. not even in the same universe of comparison, Beacool
nothing comes close to making absurd shit up like Tuzla in your lil list.

O yeah, how do you think Hillary convinced her daughter to lie about Tuzla as well? Do you think Chelsea was hesitant, or do you think it was just a natural genetic reaction to lie - after all, it's politics and it is expected. Do you think Chelsea volunteered to lie for mum, or ma put some pressure on? hmmm
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
26. HRC has NOTHING to offer
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 04:48 PM by Ken Burch
She hates progressives and activists.

She is comfortable sitting on corporate boards.

She doesn't care how many wars she keeps us in or gets us in.

She's just fine with cutting social services to keep the military death budget up.

She could actually DEFEND(or launch) a missile strike on Iran.

She is pushing us in to a completely insane confrontation with China.

She has blood on her hands and is utterly devoid of any sense of compassion or solidarity for the people, and no interest in the fate of anyone who isn't part of the corporate elite.

HRC would be no change at all from what we have now...unless greater bloodshed and even more corporate arrogance are your notion of "change".

IS that so hard to understand?
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
70. What you know about Hillary can fill the head of a pin.
I accept that some people may prefer Obama, but most of the items that you have enumerated are not even remotely factual.

:crazy:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #70
88. You could learn something --> "Hillary's Padded Resume"
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #88
93. You're repeating yourself.
:eyes:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. And you are in denial.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #70
98. She's a hawk, which automatically makes her right-wing on foreign policy
We have clearly established, in the last few years, that the use of American force can never again have progressive or humanist results.

She has served on corporate boards, and will do so again when she leaves office, which puts her on the opposite side from people who care about workers and the poor(or are in either group).

And I'm not pro-Obama either, if you frame it as a choice between those two...but HRC stopped being progressive years ago, if she ever was.

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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #70
142. how many angels on that head of a pin?

ROFL

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center rising Donating Member (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
28. I voted for Hillary and would so again. Obama's a HUGE disappointment
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 04:56 PM by center rising
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #28
56. +100
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #28
71. He doesn't disappoint me.
I never expected much from him.

;-)
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
149. Same here.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
30. Dude...Give it up
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 05:02 PM by Blue_Tires
She didn't cut it in '08 and isn't running in '12 and no amount of GOP backed, PUMA-themed cartoons/editorials/trolling blog posts is gonna change that...To even entertain any other thought is a masturbatory fantasy...

I'd much rather play the "Woulda-Coulda-Shoulda" card for '80, '84, '88, '94, '00, '02 and '04, but it makes just as much sense (and real-world difference) as this make-believe world where Obama magically resigns, Hillary Clinton steps into the race at the 11th hour, wins 49 states and ushers in a new socialist utopia...

Not sure why I'm even playing this game, because it's not like you or the usual suspects ever wanted to discuss the real issue...If you are genuine in your desire to get Hillary into the presidency, I suggest you get in touch with her people to lay down the groundwork for a '16 run...But I suspect your involvement will never be anything more than posting pro-Clinton/anti-Obama stuff (usually from far-right sources) on DU with the requisite popcorn-eating smiley...
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center rising Donating Member (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Never said I wanted Hillary in 12, but I would vote for her over Obama
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 05:14 PM by center rising
She didn't cut it in 08 because the Democrats were blinded by Clinton fatigue. You got what you voted for. A man with little or no Washington experience who tried to make deals with Republicans. Hillary would have been tougher and her experience as first lady and Senator from New York would have made her a much better choice than Obama.

A lot of people in this country are having buyers remorse about Obama.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. There's that phrase again:
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 05:19 PM by Blue_Tires
"Hillary would have been tougher and her experience as first lady and Senator from New York would have made her a much better choice than Obama."



OK; I'll play...Kucinich could have been a better candidate than both of them. Also, if more Americans would have supported Kerry in '04 we wouldn't be in this mess now...

See how simply meaningless it is to play theoretical alternate history??
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center rising Donating Member (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Not meaningless, simply the truth.
You're going to tell me that things have been going swimmingly well with Obama??
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. Easy to call it "truth" when it can't be proved OR disproved.
Never mind "tough" - lots of people can talk a good game.

NO ONE can know how effective she would have been.

You can believe that she would've been the bestest evah, but it didn't happen. It's either speculation or fantasy, take your pick.

She may have talked, for example, about "obliterating" Iran if need be, but President Obama has sure walked the walk on decimating Al Qaeda.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. replier has just returned from the alternate universe in quadrant 6
of the Zorgon complex in Universe 9 where Hilary Clinton narrowly beat out Obama and asked him to be the Vice President.

In that universe everything in fact has gone swimmingly well and that is all the proof I need.

By the way the profile the cartoonist used of SOS Clinton is fantastic. Those would have made great posters and if I had enough money to go to Quadrant 6 and get the real thing I could have made a million dollars because I would have the only ones around. Should have bought when the market was down and sold when the market was high then I would have it in the bag.

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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. Speculation does not equal truth
And I'm not saying I've been 100 percent satisfied with Obama; I'm saying it's impossible to say with certainty that Hillary would have been much different...

And if it's such a widely-assumed given that Hillary can just step in, fight off the GOP hate machine with one hand while restoring global peace and prosperity with the other, why isn't she running (better yet, why didn't she keep her senate seat and push to be senate majority leader where she could have done a lot more good)? Oh, she isn't interested in the '12 race you say? Then WTF are we talking about, then??
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. No, she lost because she lied about her experience (Tuzla, etc.) and ran a shitty campaign.
And for the record, Obama had more legislative experience than Hillary. Now I know you're going to argue that he lacked First Lady experience, and I have to concede that point to you.
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center rising Donating Member (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. No, i'm going to argue with you that Hillary had more Washington experience.
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 05:29 PM by center rising
And she did. You need to know how Washington works and Obama got run over by the Republican machine.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. 11 years Obama > 8 years Clinton = no contest in legislative experience.
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 05:33 PM by AtomicKitten
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center rising Donating Member (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Hillary, first lady for eight years, plus Senator from New York
Obama, not nearly that much Washington experience.

Hillary=fighting Republicans
Obama=appeasing Republicans
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Being First Lady is not legislative experience.
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 05:42 PM by AtomicKitten
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mr715 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #41
61. Horse Plop
She wasn't Laura Bush.

She was tough as nails, fought the fights behind the scenes, twisted arms, and ran meetings. Don't diminish her role in the Clinton administration. I agree with you that, strictly speaking, one cannot compare Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama's experience (apples and oranges), but she was a pretty special first lady.






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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #61
74. Uh huh. Doesn't change the fact t hat being First Lady is not legislative experience.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #61
135. is Michelle Obama gaining Legislative experience right now?
She's pretty busy too, and working on some great programs.

and she doesn't lie.

Would be great to have this experience under her belt for some official possibilities in the future. The world would be lucky to have her making good decisions.
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mr715 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #135
148. Washington experience.
Media experience...

I'd vote for her if she was running for the Senate in Illinois. Or NY. And after she won twice, yeah, I'd say she had legislative experience on top of what she's learned as the only advisor that shares the President's bed.


I don't mean to be flippant, but what is the point of the comparison?
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
150. Neither is community organizer.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-11 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #150
151. 8 years in Illniois State Senate and 3 years in U.S. Senate = 11 years legislative experience
Hillary's actual curriculum vitae:
* 1973 graduated from law school
* 1 year at Childrens Defend Fund - her only full time nonprofit job
* 15 years with a corporate law firm (Rose Law Firm) representing clients like Tyson Foods
* First Lady of Arkansas
* 1986 - 1992 sat on corporate board of Wallmart
* First Lady of U.S. Involved in failed healthcare reform and promoted NAFTA. Did not hold a security clearance, did not attend meetings of NSC, and did not receive a copy of the president's daily security briefing.
* 8 years in U.S. Senate

Hillary's '35 years experience' Padded Resume"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNtaA636mDs

Obama 11 years legislative experience > Clinton 8 years legislative experience
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. How'd she do on Healthcare reform, again?
...with a husband in the WH, no less.

I'll say no more. This is becoming useless primary rehash.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #46
96. Final tally ... zip, nada, goose-egg.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #40
66. If you think this you are deluded, plain and simple.
Ask any reputable historian, any respected political analyst, and indeed anyone who took a government class, and they will all tell you that politics is the art of compromise. You cannot rule by executive fiat. There is no magic wand. And don't start with that "bully pulpit" crap, because when you have a well-funded opposition, a media noise machine that hates you, and a left flank that can't resist taking digs at you every time you do something you don't like, there is very little the so-called "bully pulpit" does.

No matter what fantasies you may have of Hillary decapitating Mitch McConnell and John Boehner and putting their heads on pikes on the South Lawn, they remain just that: fantasies. Hillary would have used the exact same tactics Obama has used--and I submit that she would have had less success because she is one of the only figures in the party more polarizing than he is.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. +435
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #40
102. fighting republicans
Like her good friend John McCain?

You expect us to believe that the one who voted for the Iraq War would have really fought the GOP too much? Sigh
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #39
83. Oh yeah, all those present votes.
How could we forget his stellar years as a state senator?

:eyes:



:7
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. Yes 11 is still > than 8. Go figure, huh? Her daredevil landing in Tuzla was given short shrift.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. That's all you got?
There are hundreds of state senators, big deal.

:eyes:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. "Hillary's Padded Resume"
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #90
92. At least she HAD a resume. Obama's was thinner than a communion wafer.
:7
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. 11 > 8 and now he's president. Must really chap your ass. LOL.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. Not as much as it must chap the ass of the millions who have no jobs.
I'm bored with this subject.

See you later......

:hi:
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #97
103. in part because of Hillary's friends in outsourcing.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #87
125. you know thats not all to be got. Here is oneI know you like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tngWyRHIjYU

Hillary Clinton goes spaztic when asked a legitimate question about conflict of interest and the columbian trade deal.

Would you trust this person to think on her feet as president when surprised with something she would rather avoid? Would you want your president to be so ill prepared for inevitable things like this? Would you want your president to have a past so riddled with lies and contradictions that it becomes impossible to answer straightforward without somehow incriminating yourself as a fibber?

ah, thought so. you would :)
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #32
65. Hillary would have tried to make deals with Republicans too, Sparky.
It's part of being President--you have to deal with people who hate your guts on a daily basis.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #30
48. Dude...I don't draw the cartoons. I just post them.
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 05:53 PM by ellisonz
If I didn't post them, someone else probably would. I don't think you've commented on any other cartoons I've posted in the last 2 or 3 months, now that I've been able to spend more time here regularly. Fucking unemployment.

I think the cartoon is making fun of the whole proposition.

Also, I've literally had an Obama avatar since June of 2007. DU my user-name with "one-millionth." Other posters can readily confirm both my contributions to the Obama campaign and my loyalty to the Democratic party. If got tired of looking at the same one and having a target on my back in GD.


If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!

Calm down. Sheesh. :silly:

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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
31. HA!
:rofl:
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
49. I'm outraged! Cartoons should be banned!
:sarcasm: :evilgrin:
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
79. Off with his hands!
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
52. +1 nt
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
53. The other side of the same coin
How about we elect an actual democrat and progressive?

RL
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. What, you don't want to take the . . . "sensible" route?
:rofl:

I just never understood why anyone thought free-trade-supporting Hawk Hillary would have been any better.

Until money is divorced from politics, you might as well say "Economically, there IS no option". This was solidified when Obama continued the Bewsh Tax Cuts. Voting anymore is just a matter of whether or not you want the U.S. to become "United Pentacostal ChurchMerica".
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #53
144. +1000
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
63. Didn't the time for attacks against Hillary pass 3 years ago?
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #63
76. What attacks?
Has anyone made anything up here?

If the media is going to float the "Draft Hillary" meme in any way, shape or form, people are going to express opinions about that idea.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. She is free to run against him if she wants, but she really does have to go through a primary.
There are bizarre suggestions that the president should just step aside for her, or VP Joe Biden should just step aside for her, and of course let's not forget the 'switcheroo' floated wherein the VP and SOS would switch jobs. I wonder why this sense of entitlement where she is concerned prevails. She is free to run against him in a primary but is not entitled to have it just handed to her.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. I suspect it's because of the way the Primary wins broke out.
Edited on Mon Nov-28-11 11:19 PM by CakeGrrl
Remember all that bizarre stuff about a 'co-presidency' and the notion in some corners that she was owed the VP spot for winning some big states, partly because Obama apparently couldn't carry the states in the GE that she won?

:crazy:

That's all I can come up with.

Otherwise, I have NO idea why a sitting VP should just up and hand over his spot.

Somewhere I just saw a clip of Chris Rock talking about '08 on Letterman. To paraphrase his analogy about the NY Giants win over the New England Patriots a few Super Bowls ago, "The Patriots got a lot of points. But they didn't win the Super Bowl."
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #86
91. The only explanation for that kind of crazy talk is a sense of entitlement.
It's surreal really, isn't it? :crazy:
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
64. What horseshit.
I wonder if the artist will rend his garments when Obama's reelected. Here's hoping.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
73. sticking with? stuck with
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Carnage251 Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
100. If she would've won it would be Obama on those posters
Keep up the good work doing the repuke bidding you ass wipe.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #100
105. It's making fun of the idea that she should run or be VP.
Just the other day Robert Reich tweeted that he thinks 2012 will be Obama/Clinton.

I really don't think that out of thousands of posts made on this site daily attacking Obama that mocking the idea Democrats need somebody else is doing "repuke bidding."

I'm sticking with Hope and Change.

Thanks for playing! :hi:
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
106. she would have been no different...
then Obama. A DLC sellout, just like 80% of all so-called democrats in DC
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #106
140. answers.com - Is Barack Obama a member of the DLC?

Answer:

No.
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blkmusclmachine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 02:38 AM
Response to Original message
107. Ha! The Clinton's are total Third Way/"New" DEM.
Same as Obama. Just Republicans in disguise.
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
109. BTW
IBTL
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Liquorice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
110. She would have been a great president, but she will never run again. I don't blame her after the
Edited on Tue Nov-29-11 03:09 AM by Liquorice
horrible way she was treated by her fellow democrats. It was despicable and showed that ugly sexism is alive and well in the democratic party. I learned a lot about the people in the party from that primary, and hardly any of it was good.
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #110
112. and we also learned
that racism is very much alive and well in this party. Mark Penn, her campaign manager, used racist dog whistles all throughout. I bet Hillary wishes she fired that fool, I sure as Hell do.

Though I can think of several dozen women who deserve to be president more than Hillary, or Obama, or Bill Clinton ever did, Maxine Waters for starters, Nancy Pelosi for the middle of the list, and Dianne Feinstein for the (right wing, but better than a GOP) vote.

I guess that makes me sexist.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #110
116. You know perfectly well that Obama won the nomination fair and square
HRC had no right to treat the nomination as if she was simply entitled to it. She had no more qualifications at all than Obama. Not that I'm pro-him at this point(it's enough that I'll grit my teeth and vote for him in the fall since he has no right to expect any enthusiasm from anyone anymore)but HRC wasn't cheated and you're just going to have to admit it already.

And, since she would have been sharply to Obama's right as president, nothing would be better, so why would you still want her? You can't be a hawk AND a progressive. It's impossible.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #116
119. She never treated it as an entitlement. The media did, but she didn't.
And I know that for a fact, I was there.

As for the party leadership, they can go rot in hell. Nancy and her arm twisting behind people's backs. Those who whispered in Obama's ears to "take a 2 x 4" to Hillary while claiming to support her. Those who switched endorsements because they were cajoled to do so (pity that Stephanie Tubb Jones is no longer here to confirm the pressure they were under). A lot of backstabbing was done and those of us who were close enough to see it changed our minds about what up to then had been our beloved Democratic party. Well, they got their wish and some paid for it. So don't mind if some of us dance on their political graves.

:-(
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #119
134. Hillary admits she didn't plan beyond Feb. 5th.
"I'm in it for the long run. It's not a very long run; it will be over by Feb. 5th"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WsPmZ1zDeA
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #110
118. Hear, hear!!!
That is why as of the summer of 2008 I switched party affiliation. I'm now one of those whose vote is highly sought after by both sides: an Independent.

:D
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PragmaticLiberal Donating Member (169 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #118
121. At least you're honest about where your allegiances actually lie.
And that allegiance appears to be with SOS Clinton rather than the Democratic Party.



Personally, I'm not a fan of the super delegate process but with that being said,Obama didn't cheat to win the nomination.



For some reason I don't think you'd be nearly as upset with the nomination process if YOUR candidate was the victor.



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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #121
126. it's those damn caucuses. not fair!
Edited on Tue Nov-29-11 12:20 PM by Whisp
otherwise we would be led by the Goddess of Peace and all hunger and evil in the world would no longer exist. o, woe is us!

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #121
129. The Democratic party's nominating process is a cesspool.
As for the caucuses, I have opposed them for years regardless of who was running. They are NOT a democratic way to choose a nominee in the 21st century. It disenfranchises far too many people who for various reasons cannot caucus.

IMO, the nomination should be decided through closed primaries. Want to vote in a primary? Then register and choose party affiliation.

I'm also not crazy about the electorate college. Let the people's vote be the decider. And don't get me started on the super delegate scam.

x(
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #129
131. "No fair!!"
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #131
137. Kitten, go bother someone else.
I meant what I wrote and I don't care who disagrees with me.
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #129
143. in other words
You would have opposed the plan to have the superdelegates hand the win to hillary

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligen...
Right?
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #143
146. I oppose caucuses and super delegates regardless of the candidates.
I think that the system is long overdue for an overhaul.
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center rising Donating Member (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #118
123. I switched to independent as well
Edited on Tue Nov-29-11 11:37 AM by center rising
2008 was the trigger. Disgusted by the Democrats and their treatment of Hillary.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #123
127. Good call!!
:pals:
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center rising Donating Member (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #110
122. Absolutely spot on
Hillary was treated like a second class citizen by her own party. it was totally despicable. The Democrats love to call themselves the big tent party, but after the way the treated Hillary, led by Olbermann, Daily Kos and others, I wouldn't have blamed her if she told Obama to stick it as SOS. Hillary has served quite well as SOS despite the fact that she was trashed in 2008. That whole primary fight taught me a whole lot on just where the Democrats were and how they handled things. The Democrats acted just like the Republicans, and that's why I can never fully back a party when elements of that party were as sexist and as moronic as they were.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #122
130. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
128. 'It's all over...'
'The voters have stolen my nomination.'

:evilgrin:
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #128
133. THAT was hilarious. -nt
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
132. I don't see much of a difference between the two
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seaglass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #132
145. Yep, the only difference is Hillary was not as naive about Republicans. n/t
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
139. Has Obama commented on this yet?...
What? He hasn't? Then obviously he approves of it.

Silence implies consent.

Sid
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
141. Kicked to see results later. n/t
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