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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 08:23 AM
Original message
Don't Blame Obama For This Mess
Supercommittee Failure Not Obama's Fault
By Ruth Marcus


Congress fails. The can is kicked. Cue the finger-pointing at President Obama for failing to lead.

Count me out, this time around.

The collapse of the supercommittee is not Obamas fault. If he had pushed and prodded and cajoled and horse-traded, the result likely would have been the same. Perhaps even worse, in the sense that the partisan digging-in might have been even more entrenched.

For all the eleventh-hour, where-was-Obama? moaning, the bipartisan congressional directive to the White House as the supercommittee did its work was simple: Back off.

Thats right. The message from both Republican and Democratic members of the group was that presidential involvement could only be counterproductive.
The more a particular approach was associated with the president, they argued, the harder it would be for Republicans to embrace it. Anything that looked like an Obama win would have been unacceptable to Republicans in an election cycle.

more...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/11/24/su...
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. So true but so sick at the same time.
They are willing to let the country go into decline to score political points.
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. And so sick of the fact that Americans don't yet get this fact and therefore ready and willing
towilling to blame Obama and the Democrats. Even here on DU. You got businessmen like Looman openly admitting that they are DELIBERATELY not hiring until Obama is defeated! The ReThugs have openly stated the same but Amercians, and many DUers, are not holding them accountable!!
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
40. America's got The Stupid.
:-(
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
41. We are all holding the Republicans responsible.
Obama's part was extending the Bush tax cuts. And that was inexcusable. But I'm sure you will tell me he had to extend unemployment benefits and preserve middle class tax cuts.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. So they said 'back off' and as a mere US President, he had to!
Did the Supercommittee also order him to remain silent on the wave of police violence? Are they a sort of group Executive, replacing his actual powers?
Here is what I hear of the President lately: lots of travel and dress up, some shopping and of course, sporting events. Governing a stressed nation? I guess the Supercommittee told him to go golfing instead.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. you sound like limbaugh
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stillrockin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. and *you* sound like one who won't see the truth
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. as long as the right controls messaging they get to have it both ways and the left allows it
by ignoring their most important messaging tool- talk radio.

and that is what team limbaugh has been saying - we have all these problems and he's running around campaigning.

if he stays in the white house he's afraid to get out and meet the people, is isolated, doesn't know what's going on.

the think tanks feed the take to team limbaugh and whether it takes a week or a month even the 'liberals' in the media will be repeating it.

he's getting shit for the supercommittee bullshit but it was limbaugh, who for months convinced his dittohead teabaggers there were advantages in defaulting, who laid the foundation alternate reality for that mess and now completely escapes blame.

as long as the left ignores and allows the unchallenged radio buzz machine to dominate media in this country and short circuit normal democratic feedback mechanisms, it's impossible to evaluate obama accurately or expect him to stick his neck out as far as we'd like.



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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
3. and the voters are also to blame, indirectly
Each side votes for its most extreme candidates, and all the moderates have disappeared. We have a highly divided congress, ideologically.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Each side voted for extremes?
Really? Which 'most extreme' Democrats were elected? Be specific. I see the GOP playing partisan games with the nation. You see a lack of moderates on both sides? Hilarious.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. Obama nor McCain were extreme, imo (nt)
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
42. Name some extreme Democrats please.
I can't think of a single one. Unless they are blue dogs and extreme toward the right.
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Harmony Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. When it comes to a supercomittee
I support the President's hands off approach. The Republicans are trying to a light a fire with the public about how non participatory Obama has been. But the public isn't buying into what they are selling.
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. This was a job for Congress who simply refused to do its constitutional duty!
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 03:23 PM by Liberal_Stalwart71
Has nothing to do with Obama's "approach"
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. They criticize Obama for getting involved in Libya...
and they criticize him for not getting involved in the super committee. Do you see the picture here? It doesn't matter what he does, because they will find fault.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
7. I don't blame him, but I saw no significant attempt to lead there, either.
Or to propose better or even acceptable solutions. That's been true of almost all problems he's "faced" since Inauguration Day, sadly. It's the Obama Pattern.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. "None are so blind, as he who will not see" seems to fit your post perfectly.
:hi:
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. YOU didn't see it because either YOU didn't pay attention and/or the Corporate Media
simpky did not show coverage of Obama's speeches, his addresses, or the countless statements that he has made on this. The president was EVERYWHERE on this.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. The buck has to stop somewhere.
And since he's the President, its bound to stop at his desk.

Imagine if the same thing had happened under Bush. We'd be blaming him.
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GoCubsGo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. No, this is all the fault of Congress
As John Kerry, a member of that committee pointed out on "Meet the Press" last week, the federal budget is the responsibility of Congress, and Congress alone. The buck did not even make it out of the committee, let alone to the President's desk.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Doesn't matter.
This will be an Obama budget. He'll sign his name on it. We still call them "Clinton budgets" even though most of the budgets he signed came out of a Republican congress.

If the President wants his legacy to be dictated to him by Congress, then by all means he should sit back and do nothing and wait for whatever to come to him. OR, he could LEAD.
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GoCubsGo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. It does matter.
BTW, Kerry said that the President DID have input on the supercommittee. He didn't "sit back and do nothing". He consulted with them on a regular basis. Just because it didn't get reported doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Article I, Section IX. This constitutional responsibility belongs solely to Congress!!
Will you allow wingnut talking point to shape your perception to justify your hatred of this president? If so, that's sad and pathetic!!
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Its not a wingnut talking point.
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 06:05 PM by progressoid
I speaking about the fact that budgets get assigned to the president that sign them, not the congress that pass them.

We don't call the Clinton budget surplus the "Republican Surplus of the 106th Congress". Nor do we assign the final Bush budget to the Democrats that controlled both houses. Whether deserved or not, the honor (or dishonor) of the budget goes to the President residing in the White House.

I'm not defending the practice. Just stating how is portrayed.


editted fur speling
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. BULLSHIT!! Budgets need to get passed FIRST before a president can sign anything!!
The fact that Congress refused do pass a budget is NOT the fault of the president. Direct your anger at them and the Democrats like Ben Nelson who aid and abet them!!!
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Right.
So when it does get passed (and it will), it will be an Obama Budget. Like it or not, that is how history will label it.

Even though the failure of the super committee may not be the President's fault, ultimately, it is in his (and our) best interest to make sure they can get a decent budget on his desk to sign. So, if, as you say, he has been involved in the negotiations, does that mean he bears some responsibility in the budget failure?

Time for dinner.

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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. aaah, that claim would be wrong in my eyes
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 06:01 PM by Bodhi BloodWave
While its true that many 'bucks' stops at the presidents desk, a whole lot of them stops up in a number of places far below him or just below him as people appointed(or elected by the people) to different positions within the federal, state and local governments et al deals with the issues.

So if an issue comes up thats state and it stops at lets say the govner's desk, then no the buck can't stop with Obama since the govner stopped the buck at his desk(as was proper according to the rules yadi yadi yadi that the US has created with the seperation of powers and all that jazz)

Or in short: just cause a president had a sign stating 'the buck stops here' doesn't mean it cant or wont stop before it arrives there.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. Congress stinks.
Obama stinks a little less, but they are all in the same bucket. They're main goal is to remain in power, not the wellbeing of the population at large.

:shrug:
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. Another great read. Thanks babylonsis.
:hi:
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. Damned if he does damned if he doesn't
If he would have gotten directly involved the Repugs and the media would claim he was influencing the process..

He gave grown ass adult a project that they were capable of completing and they failed. Why does the President have to play his role and theirs too...?

Congress failed I will put the blame on the Repuglicans because they had no plan to cooperate...none what so ever....it's time to call them traitors to this country.....
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
31. He's shown himself to be truly wonderful...and he's worked against all odds.
I understand how proud we should be of him...and how the traitors in Congress should be cowering under their Perks and BIG MONEY. This man TOWERS OVER THEM! He's shown them the "Right Stuff" of how BIG THINKERS know how to govern and they are idiots who cower under him.

:-)'s
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. IRL, (in real life), I only know one person who blames Obama for a bunch of shit...
...and she's not the brightest bulb on the tree.

And, she's just kind of negative all the time anyway.

:shrug:
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
25. I agree that Obama is not responsible
for the supercommittee not reaching an agreement. I do, however, think he is partly to blame for the existence of the supercommittee which, in my opinion, is a bad thing.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. we got supercomittee because the Americans give team limbaugh a free speech free ride.
the GOP is scared of limbaugh & the think tanks that feed him.

and the only reason we couldn't raise the debt ceiling as usual and ended up with a supercomittee is because the left ignored RW radio while the limbaughs worked for months to convince the dttohead teabaggers that republicans couldn't lose if they stopped a debt ceiling raise. he especially convinced the base and their new teabaggers in congress of that and RW radio can do the same shit to this country year after year with no consequences for team limbaugh because there is NO organized opposition to it.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
30. Absolutely NOT...Obama has done everything he could to bring Freedom & Democracy
to those who don't even deserve it. Without him...these people wouldn't be Free today...but, still living under their dictators.

Without Obama and his bringing in Wall Street to help sort out our problems we would have all lost our pensions and the economy would be in the crapper today.

Obama has been Masterful in his 24 Dimensional Chess Game...and those of us who thought he couldn't pull it off are now hiding out in our "terror closet and whining like Lefty Progressives always do when things don't go there way."

Yes "Babylon" ....you were correct! OBAMA IS THE ONE...THE ONE. We misjudged what a REAL DEMOCRAT could do for us. We even held out long. But, now we see his power...and his ability to lead.

We should all be truly awed by this man. He's so much better than we could have thought.

:kick: for your post!
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. Ha, ha, ha!!!!!!
:rofl:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. You need to understand
that when some of us are at the "end of our rope"....we resort to draconian measrues.

:-( Wish it didn't have to be this way...as I'm sure you do...

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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
32. What O can and cannot be blamed for
He cannot be blamed for the fact that Congress is a piece of shit, full of blue dogs at best, Fascists at worst. These creeps know that even 8 years is not long in Washington years, much less four.

HE CAN be blamed for not invoking the 14h amendment and hammering the more subversive elements into submission.
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. 14th Amendment was not a certainty. And let's be real and honest. Had Obama interpreted
The 14th Amendment in the way that YOU THINK he should have, folks like you, the wingnuts, and the Corporate Media would be screaming that he's behaving like a dictator and subverting the U.S. Constitution. Why dont the ODSers stop bullshitting and be honest: no matter what this president does or DOES NOT do, people will still be upset. The man simply cannot win for losing. Let's be honest about this once and for all!!
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-11 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #35
47. Well, as you say "no matter what the president does or DOES NOT do, people will be upset", then
why piss off everyone when you have the option of pissing off people who aren't going to like you no matter what you do. Republicans are going to hate him no matter what, moderates can be swayed if things start going well and liberals will like him if he stands up to Republicans.

Instead, Republicans still hate him and always will. Moderates are feeling disappointed about their current situation and aren't going to go his way and liberals are disenfranchised. Only a small faithful handful see Obama in a good light.

If you lose, you lose.

I'm glad we were honest about this once and for all.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
44. Not blaming him....but couldn't he do better? n/t
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blkmusclmachine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
33. Meow.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
34. I don't. I do blame him and the Dems on the committee for putting Social Security, Medicare
--and Medicaid on the table, though.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-28-11 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
38. Nope, nothing is ever his fault.
No Truman that one. I bet that he has a sign on his desk that states that the buck doesn't stop there.

:7
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. I could say "please...please" don't make me do this...then he does..but, that would be Heretical .
:-(
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-11 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. Truman also invented the phrase "Do-Nothing Congress."
Harry had a temper and wasn't afraid to display it in public.
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