Plouffe and Daley are IDIOTS!

[woolldog]

I knew it.

Its Daley and Plouffe who are giving the idiotic advice to Obama about pursuing bipartisanship and compromise.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/us/politics/14econ.html?_r=1&hp&gwh=A3858FB8DEF3BFD1788E4EBB28838454

[Tarheel_Dem]

1. What, in Obama's bio makes you think he wouldn't pursue bipartanship anyway?

I mean, do you know anything about him before he became president? :shrug: Rabblerousers kept after him to go harder on Hillary, but he remained a gentleman throughout. Unpaid advisers (DU) also thought he wasn't tough enough on McCain/Palin, but we all know how that turned out.

This president shouldn't change who he is to fit some preset ideological mold of the PL. Win or lose, he should remain true to himself above all, doncha think? :shrug:

[MannyGoldstein]

2. He should remain true to his campaign promises

and to the American people - the other 99% included.

[AdHocSolver]

5. If Obama doesn't change his strategy, we are going to see a Republican win in 2012.

Winning is not a matter of "being true to yourself". It is about fighting for what you profess to be your principles.

If Obama refuses to put up a fight, the outcome is going to be "lose".

The people are waiting to see who is going to fight for them.

Holding out your hand in "bipartisanship" to a crazed rabble who are wielding swords is not a winning strategy. That is being out of touch with reality.

"Reaching across the aisle" has already proven to be a failed strategy. Continuing to pursue it is insane.

[Tarheel_Dem]

8. You mean Democrats? Democrats sat at home in 2010. How'd that work out?

Instead of going out and working to increase the number of progressives in Congress, they sat home "disillusioned". Now they really have a reason to be. If they make that same mistake in 2012, they have only themselves to blame, not Pres. Obama.

No one should have to excite you to do your civic duty. The good news is that most Democrats who inhabit real world, outside the reach of the increasingly frantic leftosphere, know that the president's hands are tied even more than before. Did you think the election of a teabagger dominated House would deliver more progressive legislation? And if so, you're even more divorced from reality than I thought.

I hope the "message" that was sent in 2010 was worth it all. Obama may not have the vein bursting, spittle laced passion of a Bernie Sanders or a Dennis Kucinich, but then we didn't nominate them, and never would. So this relentless excerise in hyperpartisan ideological purity is futile at best, and self defeating at worst.

Unlike the Republican Party, I don't think Democrats are willing to be taken over by 20% of the electorate, whose loyalty is, at best, questionable. :hi:

[Bluenorthwest]

15. My State had a record breaking turn out in 2010. Why did you not

have the same? Not one Republican gain here. How about in your area of influence? How did your ways and methods do?
And you know, Sanders and Kucinich are not 'vein bursting and spittle laced'. What a vicious set of words toward some of our best in Congress. Note the distance between your opening 'we need more progressives in Congress' and then later, when you characterize progressives in Congress in a nasty light.
The ideological 'purity' on display of late is from Obama, his insistence upon his bipartisan ideology, no matter how badly or often it fails, is Obama clinging to his pure vision of bipartisanship, and like yourself, he winds up saying rotten things about Democrats, and not about Republicans.
When a tactic does not work, you need to use another. Bipartisanship with lunatics does not work. Holding to that ideology is just stupid.

[renate]

28. "Bipartisanship with lunatics does not work"

I wish Plouffe and Daley would finally understand that. Well and succinctly said. :applause:

Besides, the way to impress independent voters isn't to appeal (I'm quoting from the NYT article) "...to independent voters by advocating ideas that can pass Congress, even if they may not have much economic impact. These include free trade agreements and improved patent protections for inventors," but to put forward ideas, even ideas that wouldn't make it past the House (which would show the Republicans up for the assholes they are), like "...tax incentives for businesses that hire more workers, according to Congressional Democrats who share that view. Democrats are also pushing the White House to help homeowners facing foreclosure." I mean, those last two ideas alone would make a HUGE difference in Obama's poll numbers, besides making excellent sense and being pro-middle class. Why oh why oh why don't they put those ideas forward and DARE the Republicans to vote them down? I truly don't understand the decision-making process; whoever's running it must be trapped in a locked room and prevented from looking out and seeing the real world.

[moksha]

26. Is there evidence that Democrats sat home in 2010?

I am asking honestly.

[Exilednight]

33. No, they just need something to make the loss less painful and deflect blame from Obama. n/t

[Exilednight]

32. Really? That's funny. I live in a purple district and we retained our Democratic Rep. n/t

[vaberella]

35. Only a stupid nation would allow a republican win in 2012. Not Obama. n/t

[young but wise]

13. +1000

[Cali_Democrat]

3. William Daley is a bankster

He sat on the Executive Committee of JP Morgan Chase before Obama hand picked him to be his brand spanking new Chief of Staff.

What's going to happen is that Obama will listen to Daley and Plouffe. They will argue for a "pragmatic" and non confrontational approach. They will not call the Republicans out for their intransigence on the economy in a serious fashion.

Essentially, the status quo will remain. The corporations and the wealthy will not hire and will continue to rape the poor and the middle class. Reaganomics will reign. We'll get more free trade to be sure.

And it's the American people that are fucked.

What did you think would happen when Obama appointed a bankster to be his Chief of Staff?

[woolldog]

7. Never trusted Daley.

Never. Obama is living in a bubble unfortunately. In that respect maybe the bustrip is a good idea.

[alsame]

18. Bubble is right - pun intended. Look at the cabinet, staff and

advisors and you find mostly DLC/Third Way/New Democrats/Blue Dogs.

[OHdem10]

4. Thank you, I have been wondering---makes perfect sense.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tarheel_Dem]

9. +1. As H.L. Mencken stated:

"Liberals have many tails and chase them all."

[Bluenorthwest]

16. How OFA, to yet again snark at liberals while the conservatives

sink the boat we sail on. Good, good stuff.

[AdHocSolver]

10. Some snippets from the linked article to show the stupidity of the advice.

**********
(snip)
Mr. Obama’s senior adviser, David Plouffe, and his chief of staff, William M. Daley, want him to maintain a pragmatic strategy of appealing to independent voters by advocating ideas that can pass Congress, even if they may not have much economic impact. These include free trade agreements and improved patent protections for inventors.
**********

Appealing to some nebulous group of independent voters while alienating your base that got you elected is not a winning strategy.

Moreover, so-called free trade agreements that turned the outsourcing of jobs into an avalanche is NOT the correct policy to help an ailing economy. Eliminating NAFTA-like agreements would stimulate the American economy. The patent changes they are pushing are not designed to help inventors, but rather to allow large corporations to have a bigger stranglehold on technology.

**********
(snip)
Dan Pfeiffer, the White House director of communications, said that there was no internal debate. “The president’s first priority is to work with Republicans and Democrats to grow the economy, create jobs and reduce the deficit, but if the Republican House continues its ‘my way or the highway’ approach, he will make sure the public knows who is standing in the way and why.”
**********

How much more evidence does the president need to understand that the Republicans in the House are NEVER going to cooperate with him on policy. Why should they if they win the debate again and again by being intransigent. The public already knows who is being intransigent. We are waiting to see the president fight back. Moreover, we are NOT interested in more NAFTA-type agreements, government bailouts of corrupt corporations, and more tax breaks for the wealthy and the corporations.


**********
(snip)
The issue is being framed by the 2012 election. Administration officials, frustrated by the intransigence of House Republicans, have increasingly concluded that the best thing Mr. Obama can do for the economy may be winning a second term, with a mandate to advance his ideas on deficit reduction, entitlement changes, housing policy and other issues.
**********

The president's ideas on deficit reduction better NOT be about cutting Medicare, Social Security, or Medicaid. The best deficit reduction strategy is to put Americans back to work. (Mr. President, you may have noticed that just giving stimulus money or tax breaks to corporations without making sure that the recipients actually create jobs in the U.S., rather than China, is not a successful policy.)


**********
(snip)
The ailing economy, barely growing at the same pace as the population, has swept all other political issues to the sidelines. Twenty-five million Americans could not find full-time jobs last month. Millions of families cannot afford to live in their homes. And the contentious debate over raising the federal debt ceiling — which Mr. Obama achieved only after striking a compromise with Republicans that included a plan for at least $2.1 trillion in spending cuts over 10 years — has further shaken economic confidence.
**********

The continual compromising to get rather meager benefits in return is shaking the people's confidence in the president to get anything done.

**********
(snip)
So far, most signs point to a continuation of the nonconfrontational approach — better to do something than nothing — that has defined this administration. Mr. Obama and his aides are skeptical that voters will reward bold proposals if those ideas do not pass Congress. It is their judgment that moderate voters want tangible results rather than speeches.
**********

People are waiting to see the president put forth some reasonable proposals that are not a capitulation to the trickle down, voodoo economics that throw our tax dollars at the wealthy and the corporations that get us no benefits in return. No more so-called NAFTA-type free trade agreements that cost Americans tens of thousands of jobs. No more raids on Social Security and Medicare in "privatization" schemes to hand the money WE paid in to give handouts to the wealthy.

If the president refuses to fight right wing extortion, then Americans will conclude that his administration thinks we are stupid. It is better to put up a fight and get some of what you are fighting for than to continue to acquiesce to bad deals.

[bigdarryl]

12. This is my opinion of the Presidents iner circle

he has no Africa Americans on his staff advising him that's why you don't see him speaking about the 16% unemployment in the Community.

[bigdarryl]

11. they are OBSESSED with appealling to Independent voters

the last I checked he wasn't doing very well with them

[Harmony Blue]

19. Independent voters TURNED against Dems in 2010 mid terms

Somebody wake up this administration from their slumber.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alsame]

17. As they continue to try to appeal to Independents, does someone

ever calculate how many Democrats they will lose because of their watered down bipartisan policies? And that it might just even out, without any gains?

'Mr. Obama’s senior adviser, David Plouffe, and his chief of staff, William M. Daley, want him to maintain a pragmatic strategy of appealing to independent voters by advocating ideas that can pass Congress, even if they may not have much economic impact.'

So Independents just want legislation passed, even if it doesn't help the economy? If so, are these really the people you want to pander to?

[Harmony Blue]

20. Yeah this is bizzarre

Independent voters are not immune to layoffs or unemployment.

[alsame]

21. If they truly believe that unproductive legislation will help them

win voters, they are in deep denial.

[dgibby]

22. Obama and his so-called "advisors" don't know jack about Independents.

I'm an Indy, always have been, but almost always vote with the Dems(never for the republicans). I worked for him, donated to him, and voted for him, cried tears of joy and relief when he won. I thought our long national nightmare was over. Silly me!

I don't think I'm an atypical Indy, either. I'm a liberal, female, lower end middle class senior citizen,and retired military. I'm not a one issue voter, but I am my only means of economic support, so needless to say, the economy is at the top of my list.

Obama has steadily eroded my belief in him, breaking one campaign promise after another. I no longer trust anything he says and I have no idea what he actually believes in, other than the absolute failure that is the free market.

Quite honestly, at my age,I cannot wait for him to figure out his "North Star". He needs to lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!

[jefferson_dem]

23. 20,142,495 idependents voted for Obama.

Based on exit poll estimates, the Obama campaign, led by Plouffe, collected 52% of self-identified independents in 2008. Surely, he doesn't know jack about them.

[dgibby]

24. That was then. A LOT of water has passed over that damn,

most of it polluted. Don't think we're naive enough to make the same mistake twice. IIRC, he lost a lot of Indy support in 2010. If he doesn't change course and soon, 2010 will look like a Sunday school picnic by comparison.

[Armstead]

27. But you have to ask WHY they voted for him

Did they vote for "I'm not going to change very much and I will be very cautious and not do anything much to directly challenge Republicans and the elite status quo" same-old, same-old?

Or did they vote for someone who promised a clear break from failed policies and the GOP and Corporate Conservative ideology that got us into this mess. Did they vote for someone who said he would actually push for change that would revive the economy and bring power and wealth more back to the people?


That's a basic question to look at moving forward.

I believe they voted for change, not more of the same. And they rejected the GOP, and did not vote to give them new openings to drive the agenda.

[Exilednight]

34. Democrats could have run a mutt that has a habit of running into traffic and getting hit by cars and

we would have won the election.

[Armstead]

25. Surprise, Surprise Sgt. Carter! The White House assumes independents are all conservatives.

Independent voters want action too. That's what these people either fail to realize, or want to gloss over because they themselves are economic conservatives.

"Mr. Obama’s senior adviser, David Plouffe, and his chief of staff, William M. Daley, want him to maintain a pragmatic strategy of appealing to independent voters by advocating ideas that can pass Congress, even if they may not have much economic impact. These include free trade agreements and improved patent protections for inventors.

But others, including Gene Sperling, Mr. Obama’s chief economic adviser, say public anger over the debt ceiling debate has weakened Republicans and created an opening for bigger ideas like tax incentives for businesses that hire more workers, according to Congressional Democrats who share that view. Democrats are also pushing the White House to help homeowners facing foreclosure.

Even if the ideas cannot pass Congress, they say, the president would gain a campaign issue by pushing for them."

[alsame]

29. Thank you for the

Sgt. Carter reference :rofl:

I needed a good laugh today.

[Armstead]

30. GoooooolllllllleeeeeY

[alsame]

31. Shazam!!!

[Harmony Blue]

37. Exactly

This is why I's didn't support the Dems in 2010, so if they don't change their tune fast, they can kiss their votes goodbye.

[Jack Rabbit]

36. How is that working out for you, gentlemen?

Please click here.

[Yavin4]

38. I Wish That Obama Had Apollo Creed As His Advisor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlbKn8_p3vk


"There is no tomorrow!!"

[Phx_Dem]

39. Better we had some progressive genius telling

him to act exactly like the Republicans. Which can only mean Progressives agree with what Republicans are doing.

[Armstead]

40. The greatest twist of tortured logic I've seen in a long time. The correct answer is "Fight Back."

A progressive is going to tell him to act like Republicans, and therefore agrees with Republicans?

Alice in Wonderland would feel right at home with that kind of logic.

A more accurate analogy is simply telling someone who is getting beat up to fight back.