If the 2012 presidential election was held today, for whom would you vote, or would you not vote?

[jefferson_dem]

Poll question: If the 2012 presidential election was held today, for whom would you vote, or would you not vote?

:shrug:

[polichick]

1. What makes them "viable"??

[jefferson_dem]

3. Decision rule: The candidate actually stands a chance of winning the general election.

When/if another candidate passes that threshold, I'll include them in the next poll.

[polichick]

4. Seems to me that two corporate parties control the "viability" of candidates...

...when it should be up to the people.

[jefferson_dem]

7. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that.

Funny thing that we've really only ever had two legitimate options, since the federalists and anti-federalists.

[polichick]

8. Yeah, funny in a very unfunny way. I'm at the point where I'm not willing...

...to play this game anymore - I'd like to be part of a people's movement to end this two-corporate-party-rigged system.

[abelenkpe]

12. I think many are weary so suggested a

Give up option.

Kinda sad that would have to be considered though

[polichick]

18. I sort of wish I could simply give up, but don't think that's possible...

But, as they say, it's insane to keep doing the same thing and expect different results.

I think it's time for dedicated and principled Dems to do something very different.

[abelenkpe]

23. Certainly wish there were more like Bernie Sanders

But he's not a dem is he?

[polichick]

25. He's exactly my idea of the kind of Democrats we need...

Interesting that he isn't a Dem - he may be onto something.

At this point I'm only a Dem to vote in our closed primary.

[stuckinarut]

39. Correction, Eugene Debs

Ran as the Socialist Party candidate in the election of 1912.

There were FOUR parties running for office that year

Woodrow Wilson - Democrat
Teddy Roosevelt - Progressive
William Taft - Republican
Eugene Debs - Socialist..

[brooklynite]

2. Poll question: will you waste your time with this poll?

Seriously, what do you expect to discover from this?

[jefferson_dem]

6. It is what it is.

A poll to determine the level of support between the two viable presidential options.

Participate if you are so inclined. If not, that's fine too. :hi:

[Deep13]

11. You may as well ask if we will waste our time taalking on internet websites.

Nothing we do here has any real effect.

[polichick]

19. And yet the internet has played a big role in real revolutions across the world...

Perhaps Americans need to figure out how to do that here.

[rpannier]

49. will you waste your time with this poll?

Your answer would be yes.
You seem to think it's a waste to spend four seconds answering yes or no
But you have the time to make snide comments about it.
I guess that's not a waste of time?

[doc03]

5. No f --- ing Democrat putts SS, Medicare and Medicaid

on the table. I think we need a real Democrat to vote for.

[Deep13]

9. So far there are no declared, viable candidates.

So, but Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter and Bush Sr. were kicked out when things were better than they are now. In each case, the unemployment rate hovered between 7 and 8%. And there was no war on in 1976 or 1980. Now unemployment is between 9 and 10%, gas is $3.50/gallon and with R. governors and House members controlling the agenda, things will only get worse as govt. spending contracts. Nothing Obama is doing will change the economic situation of average people and in fact he will only make it worse by caving-in to House R.s.

So what happens when neither nominated candidate is acceptable to most voters? Well, we get someone like Romney.

[abelenkpe]

10. You should have added a not voting column to better measure

How disillusioned dem voters are. I doubt any would choose to vote republican but some may just give up and say why bother if they don't feel they are adequately represented. Know what I mean? 2012 should be a cakewalk for the dems given the lunatics on the republican side. Democrats will only lose if they cant figure out how to demonstrate they represent the people.

[jefferson_dem]

14. Fair enough.

I've changed the poll to include "will not vote" as an option.

[abelenkpe]

21. Cool!

I see the pres is still getting all the votes. :)

[Palmer Eldritch]

22. is anybody here really stupid enough to not vote?

[abelenkpe]

28. I would vote

But believe me, I know many who have not voted in the past. Some who after not voting for a while voted for the pres.

[CakeGrrl]

35. Read around.

When push comes to shove and it's Obama against the Republican, you will find those who will vote 3rd party or not at all. Either they don't know vote math or don't care what an actual Republican can do to this country.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. I vote against baiting of Democrats on DU

And I vote for policy, not for personalities. My vote is precious to me, earned by great sacrifice by those who came before me, it is owed to no one, nor to no entity. I'd be much happier if the Democratic nominee was not anti-equality and kept his mitts off the foundations of our society.

[jefferson_dem]

16. I appreciate your perspective on issues of equality.

And have expressed my dissatisfaction with the rate at which this administration is moving.

But I hardly think you can characterize Obama as "anti-equality" when there have been massive strides (though not enough) in that area ... undoubtedly more accomplishments than delivered by the other 43 presidents...combined.

[cherokeeprogressive]

33. That's a low bar to set... "more accomplishments yada yada yada..."

When the previous 43 made NO STRIDES, even the tiniest step seems like one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.

Not good enough. As the proud father of a gay daughter who is taking the first tiny steps toward gender reassignment, IT'S NOT FUCKING GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME.

So take your "more accomplishments than" and measure it against NO ACCOMPLISHMENTS AT ALL, and suddenly it looks kind of small and insignificant.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. I am abstaining from this poll.

[jefferson_dem]

17. Wow.

Bold move. Downright protesty even.

[Cereal Kyller]

20. I would definitly not vote

Because the 2012 election will not be held tomorrow.

[AnneD]

24. The turd in the DC punchbowl.....

Since there are no Dems running this year.

[Cali_Democrat]

26. But.....But....But.....this place is soooo anti-Obama!

97% of the vote.

[Ter]

38. Ha, look at it now

78% and dropping fast.

[Cali_Democrat]

42. I posted early, anything above 70% is fantastic.

If a candidate gets 70% of the vote in the state of Florida, can you consider the people of the state to be against the candidate?

Didn't think so!

DU is pro-Obama.

[Ter]

45. 70% support on a Democratic board sucks

It should be 90%+.

[bornskeptic]

53. I agree. DU has really gone downhill. n/t

[tekisui]

80. The Democratic Party has gone downhill. We haven't changed.

[Dawgs]

64. "DU is pro-Obama"? I said I would vote for him, but I'm definitely not pro-Obama right now.

There's a big difference, but I'm guessing your blind love will keep you from understanding.

[ellie]

27. I don't know what is

going to happen with SS and Medicare. Will it be cut? I don't know. But if it is I am not voting and of course not volunteering.

[vaberella]

29. Anyone who doesn't vote makes me sick and I find them to be vile amebas. n/t

[MNBrewer]

82. Amoebas

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ter]

31. Wow, now option for third party

Just wow.

[CakeGrrl]

34. Good thing this isn't actually a real ballot

Whew! There might have been something to actually get upset about.

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. I'd vote for the Democratic nominee, HOPING it would be

someone other than Barack Obama.

Does that pass the purity test?

[Hippo_Tron]

36. Millard Fillmore

[krabigirl]

37. someone else.

[Mass]

40. Unrec. Yes, I would vote for Obama, but this does not mean I can not disagree with him and say so.

[LWolf]

43. Other.

I'd write in a better Democrat.

[NorthCarolina]

44. For POTUS, I'd write in Senator Bernie Sanders' name. n/t

[LynneSin]

74. Why not just vote for whomever is the GOP candidate

In a state like NC - every vote counts.

And $10 says Bernie Sanders will end up voting Obama.

[Fearless]

46. I stay home.

We can't turn the corner as a party if it is infested by pseudo Republicans.

[JoePhilly]

59. And you can't turn the corner, if you are dead, either.

How many Democrats would a President Romney kill?

[Renaissance Man]

47. Sen. Bernie Sanders

I'd cast a write-in vote for Sen. Bernie Sanders (I - VT).

[Fearless]

48. If I were the president I'd be worried that 25% of his most ardent supporters...

Say they won't vote for him now... What about the independent voters? What do you think?

[robcon]

51. They aren't/weren't ardent supporters at all.

It's like the 2008 primaries, when Kucinich had 40% of the DU votes, but Kucinch never got even 4% of the actual primary vote. Not worried about DU votes, but about independents.

No Gop candidate appeals at all to independents, and the president will be re-elected by a comfortable margin.

[great white snark]

55. What the hell? The "no" voters were all ardent supporters at one time?

I must ask how you know this.

[robcon]

56. Du was never a hotbed of support for Obama. Distant second to Kucinich. Ardent? NO.

n/t

[JoePhilly]

60. They are "ardent supporters" only if that phrase means "hates him"

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynneSin]

75. I wouldn't since we make up about 1% of the actual voting population

Trust me, if online communities of political supporters actually held any sway in elections, Howard Dean would have been running in 2004.

For all the bad-mouthing I hear here online, it's a relief that in RL I've yet to meet one democrat in RL who won't vote for Obama. In fact many are complaining to me that I haven't been coming to any of the meetings to start the 2012 campaign. Online Reality and RL Reality are both real but not exactly the same thing.

[Telly Savalas]

50. I'm going to withhold my vote from this poll

to put pressure on you to come up with better options in your next poll.

[young but wise]

52. I will proudly cast my vote for Pres. Obama.

[MH1]

54. Who are the sick bastards who picked 'republican nominee'??

[johnaries]

57. Makes you wonder if there are GOP trolls here.

That couldn't be possible, could it? :shrug:

[polichick]

58. On this particular day, I might actually not bother - that's how disgusted I am...

Though I've never missed a vote and hopefully will be able to stomach it in November.

[jenmito]

61. If the mods are able to see who voted for the Repub. or for not voting,

I hope they TS those posters.

[Dawgs]

63. So, DU now requires a loyalty test? You MUST vote for the Democrat or be banned from DU?

Nice!

[jenmito]

65. Yes, on DU, you must vote for the Democrat. If you advocate for voting for the Repub.,

voting 3rd party, or not voting, that's against DU rules.

[Dawgs]

68. Who said anything about voting repub or third party?

Not voting is against DU rules? Really? Where?

[jenmito]

69. The OP has choices of voting Repub. or not voting, and a few here posted that they

would vote 3rd party. And yes, not voting is against DU rules:

This is listed under reasons for alerting on someone's post that violates DU's rules:

"Expressing intent to not vote or vote third party, or justifying defeat of any Democratic general election candidate (unless a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative).

One of the most important ways which we can influence our government is with our vote. For better or worse, the United States is a stable two-party democracy, and in the vast majority of elections the more progressive of the two viable candidates is the Democrat. For this reason, we believe that members should not post messages that explicitly discourage voting, or that inadvertently help Republicans by encouraging people to throw away their votes on third-party spoiler candidates. Members may advocate for non-Democratic candidates ONLY in rare cases where were a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=alert&forum=433&topic_id=703615&mesg_id=703656

[Dawgs]

85. Wow! I had no idea that a rule existed that was so ridiculous.

Whatever.

[LynneSin]

78. Here you go....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

Democratic Candidates and the Democratic Party

Constructive criticism of Democrats or the Democratic Party is permitted. When doing so, please keep in mind that most of our members come to this website in order to get a break from the constant attacks in the media against our candidates and our values. Highly inflammatory or divisive attacks that echo the tone or substance of our political opponents are not welcome here.

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate.

Do not post broad-brush smears against Democrats or the Democratic Party.

and here in the alert section:

Expressing intent to not vote or vote third party, or justifying defeat of any Democratic general election candidate (unless a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative).

BTW, this does not mean you cannot suggestion for or support a democratic opponent in the primaries - that is open game. I would think it would be wise if people clarified their voting ways if it's for primary or general election - one is very much supported at DU (primary) and the other is not (general)

[Dawgs]

86. Uh, 'not voting' is not working for the defeat of a Democratic candidate. n/t

[LynneSin]

87. Yes it is - especially if you did vote for Obama in 2008

That's one less vote is receives and one less vote the GOP need to get in order to beat Obama.

And it is right there when you alert on a thread.

And that wasn't something I made up in my previous post - click on alert. That second highlight section came from there so it's pretty well defined as a no-no that can be alerted on.

Now, if you said 'I'm voting for someone other than Obama in the primaries' - that is allowed.

[Dawgs]

90. Bullshit. Not voting could be sending a message to the Democrats.

I don't give a shit what DU defines in their rules. It doesn't change what I believe.

[jefferson_dem]

72. There is a difference between saying you will not vote and saying you will vote Repuglican.

Eh.

[avebury]

66. I'll vote for Obama BUT

it will not be an enthusiastic vote. Instead of voting for someone I believe in, I will be voting for the lesser of evils. I am tired of the Democrats/Obama caving into the Republicans and Tea Party. If the Democrats could float a good challenge to Obama I would consider voting for a different candidate.

[LynneSin]

76. On Barack Obama's absolutely worst day ever...

it's still 1000000% better than any GOP candidate that could end up on the primary ballot.

[styersc]

84. Inspirational

[Marrah_G]

67. Yay- a loyalty test!

[jefferson_dem]

70. A poll is a loyalty test.

Paranoid much?

[EndElectoral]

71. The poll should state" If you voted for Obama in 2008, then the question....

If all threse people in the poll voted for Obama last time, then this poll indicates that he will lose 1 in 4 of those votes in 2012. A significant amount.

[LynneSin]

77. Please don't ever take a job at a public polling company. You're so off base...

you're not even in the ballpark.

So you're saying that 69,456,897 Obama voters are a member of DU? Last time I checked there was only 172,980 members here at DU, which is less than 0.25% of the population that voted for Obama. Oh, and there is no criteria over who is eligible to post here at DU - which means we have many DUers who are not able to vote in a US election because they are either not US Citizens or they are under the age of 18. Oh let's take this a step further - so far only 162 people have voted in this poll which means your basis is only on 0.094% of the registered DUers and 0.000233% of the overall population that voted for Obama.

So you make a guess that 1 in 4 voters are unhappy with Obama based on about 0.000233% of the voting population. Any other wild guesses you'd like to make?

Let's put it this way - if 0.000233% of the voting population had any indication about how the general population would vote Howard Dean would have won the 2004 primaries. Instead he came in a dismal 3rd.

[LynneSin]

73. You know I was once accused of being some sort of DLC plant

It was years ago. The poster assumed anyone who disagreed with their ideas obviously was on the DLC payroll. I thought it was crazy to think that the DLC would waste time planting posters at a site like DU.

However, maybe I was wrong to believe that outside forces would never consider using a place like DU to sway opinion because personally, I think the republican party is hard at work doing just that here at DU. No, I'm not saying all DUers who are anti-Obama are republicans (I would suspect that 99.999% of you are not) - the GOP really just needs to plant one or 2 people who get the message across "It's ok to not vote for Obama in the general election and talk about it here at DU" and the rest just follow along like the rats following Pied Piper. That's how ideas root into action - just a few planting the seeds at least the rest take it's course of action.

Here's the scoop - NOT VOTING, VOTING BUT LEAVING THE PRESIDENT SLOT BLANK, VOTING 3rd PARTY all result in one thing - BENEFITING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND ELECTION REAL REPUBLICANs. As far as I'm concerned - to the 37 people who said they won't vote for Obama (and as far as I'm concerned we're talking general election since it was not specified) might as well say "I want the GOP, the ones officially with "R" next to their name, running my country".

I spent 8 years at DU fighting the Bush administration - I really am not interested in spending more time fighting the Santorum, Palin, Bachmann, Gingrich etc etc etc administration (whichever dimwit gets picked).

Here's a thought - help get a viable candidate on the democratic primaries - that is your time to make the change. If Obama is that vulnerable it could be an exciting primary season. But to not vote Obama SHOULD he win the primaries is pretty much the same thing as voting FOR whatever GOP idiot ends up winning the GOP primary.

[WI_DEM]

79. I will probably vote Obama but I want to see what kind of deal he works out with GOP leaders first.

[tekisui]

81. Obama, of course. He is the least bad option.

[styersc]

83. Write in Hillary.

I let her down last time so I have to make amends.

[LynneSin]

89. how stupid is that? Who do you think Hillary is vote for in 2012

And personally isn't it a greater letdown to not vote for the candidate that Hillary supports?

[okieinpain]

88. i'm totally shocked. n/t.

[Zoeisright]

91. Anyone who doesn't vote is unAmerican.