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Waxman to Obama: if you're going to cave, tell us right now

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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:06 AM
Original message
Waxman to Obama: if you're going to cave, tell us right now
this is about a meeting a few weeks ago with Obama and House democrats:

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/168713-house-democrat...

(...)

One Democrat who was there said Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) bluntly asked Obama whether he was willing to fight for Democratic priorities amid GOP calls for trillions of dollars in spending cuts.

In asking the question, Waxman said hed asked several Republicans about their White House meeting the day before and had been concerned by their response.

To a person, they said the presidents going to cave, Waxman told Obama, according to his colleagues account.

If youre not going to cave, eliminating that misunderstanding is very, very important to the negotiations, the lawmaker said, retelling Waxmans message. And if youre going to cave, tell us right now.

Obama, however, didnt answer the question, the Democrat added. Obama got in a huff, and he said, Im the president of the United States, my words carry weight which is not the answer, the lawmaker said. Thats not what anyone challenges. Its whether he is doing this negotiation in the right way.

The White House declined to comment Monday. Waxmans office did not dispute this account of the White House meeting, but said the lawmaker was traveling and could not be reached to comment on it.

(...)
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Is anyone surprised?
Anymore?
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vroomvroom Donating Member (496 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. +1,000
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
91. We keep meeting in these awkward threads.
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 10:11 PM by Dept of Beer
I would be hard-pressed to be surprised.

Mind you I would like to be pleasantly surprised, Presidentially speaking.


Does a rude awakening count as a surprise?
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think he already knows the answer to that . . . . as do all good lawyers
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
61. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #61
130. I think he is feeling being the pain of being caught in the middle - a situation that he created
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think we can all read Obama like a book
A very simple book. Like that "My Pet Goat" book. Even though it's still early, we can see who is going to be the goat in these negotiations.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
northoftheborder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. Why should he change now? He's demonstrated under even....
....less demanding circumstances that he only knows how to negotiate away, (or cave); he's never shown a spine, never shown resolute unyielding stance based on principle; he has no principles, it's all the game. Why is anyone expecting anything else. I'm sick to have to say this - but we have to face the truth.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. That is what is so depressing. He squandered a majority
when he held one. Then, he empowered the conservatives, while pissing on his base.
We all have come to expect one thing from this president. Given a chance to find the muddle ground, he will cave in faster than a non-union construction ditch in an Alabama mud pile.

He may think of it as bipartisan, or even post-partisan leadership. Unfortunately, the GOP views it (accurately) as weakness and relies on it to our detriment.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
72. More empty negative rhetoric and subjective opinion.
:nopity:
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #72
78. As opposed to your content-filled objective post?
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. I'm not the one making the unproven claims about President Obama.
The burden of proof is not on me, it's on the accuser.
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #80
95. By definition your have accused as well. You should also have to prove

the burden of proof that liberation is in error.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #95
116. No, I have merely stated the facts re: demonizing rhetoric. All of it is fact-free rhetoric.
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 11:45 PM by ClarkUSA
My proof is in the reading of the rhetoric, which is unaccompanied by a shred of proof.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #116
127. New Democrats always say that before the pres caves to the blackmail. nm
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #72
93. Your post in and of itself exhibits the same characteristics.
:rofl:
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #72
126. So you want the president to give in to the blackmail? I want to fight. nm
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
71. That's not "the truth"; that's empty rhetoric devoid of facts.
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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #71
119. ya' know...
repeating the same thing different ways doesn't make it true; it just makes you a boring conversationalist.

(You've not made your point and you seemingly can't provide facts to support your position. If you were in any sort of debate competition, you'd be disqualified at this point and the other kids would make fun of you for using words like "rhetoric" which you clearly don't know the meaning of.)
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
92. And then we should vote for him in 2012. Right? Is that the truth?
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
94. +1
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
122. Oh, he'll stand up and fight
against traditional Democrats.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. why would captain caveman cave?
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
7. Waxman is a direct speaker, not a muddled mush mouth like
some others, whose words carry weight much like a truck load of manure carries weight.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
8. That's healthy
Makes him less likely to (totally) cave.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. yep
both Waxman telling him, and then whoever leaked it leaking it. :thumbsup:
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
9. 
is better then "I'm the decider" I suppose.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. ...but only marginally...
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 09:57 AM by truebrit71
...I think he is stuck inside a bubble and hasn't begun to figure out just how futile this whole "bi-partisanship" business is...

I applaud his intentions, but in the real world, the people he is trying to reason with are not reasonable people themselves...

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear...and the republican party, as we all know so well, is full of nothing more than pigs...
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. bravo - nice post
and yes, very marginally. That statement from Obama felt like a sucker punch to me.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
62. when enough children die of hunger in this country he might see it
out the fogged windows of his limo. What a total disappointment he is. Total.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
67. I think it's worse than that
It's not just about being "the pragmatist" and trying to get things done by working with the opposition. That "I'm the president" quote is not even marginally better than GWB. Those are the words of a person who is going to what he wants no matter what anyone has to say about it. Bush had the same attitude towards criticism. When you shut out the world, the world starts collapsing around you. He inherited a mess but I am very worried that he is not trying to deal with the symptoms and is simply choosing band-aid solutions because it's the easy way out. After he leaves office, the next economic disaster will be 100x worse because this administration didn't do enough to prevent it.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
28. Not Much... Not Much At ALL! Besides, He's SUPPOSED To Be A Democratic
President of which I've had many, many doubts about. When one gives a "retort" like that it's not really an answer, simply a RETORT! And for me, therein lies the DANGER!

For far to long we've been asking for answers and these kinds of quips only prolong some sort of agony. At least that's how I perceive them. I most probably will HAVE to vote for him, but my HEART IS NOT IN IT! I look on the horizon and see very little I can relate to. Where once I had great expectations for a person of color or a woman as our POTUS, now I wonder WHY.
:grr: :nuke:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
37. Yes, a marginal improvement. nt
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
55. More eloquent and just as petulant. n/t
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
96. "My words carry weight."

Like an anchor around our necks?
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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #96
120. I think in this case...
a millstone is a better analogical artifact; they're heavy, Romans used to hang them around the necks of slaves on chains slightly too short to reach the ground while standing upright as a form of torture, and their primary function is to wear and crush things down to dust.

The president is a millstone around our necks.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
101. I don't think he would say that
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Old Codger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
11. If he/they
Cave on SS and/or medicare he is done, no way to get reelected if no difference between him and the repugs. BUT the dems in the senate can stop it if they so choose, it is not all up to him, they have some power here if they have some balls.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
12. oh groan
Translation - "I'm the Appeaser"

He does represent all the people.

ya got the 98% vs the 2%.

He must give equal weight to that top 2%.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Not if that 2% are progressives. In that case,
grab an umbrella as he starts pissing on us again.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
15. The next meeting has already been set.
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hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
89. LOL
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southernyankeebelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
16. Everyone .here if you go to the whitehouse website tell Obama don't cave
He needs to hear it.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #16
29. Gee Whiz, How Naive. If He Hasn't Heard It By Now... HE NEVER WILL!
How do I love thee, let me count the ways? BS, he knows and chooses not to acknowledge!

That's my perception and that of many, many of my Democratic friends. HE knows he's boxed us into a corner, we HAVE to vote for him because the alternative is too horrible.

Yep, he did play the game well, but not one that many Democrats feel they won. HE and his have won a certain battle, but in the end "we the people" are in peril and at the cliff.

INSURRECTION seems to be the only out, but THAT'S not going to happen. One has to look at reality, even when it's the SUCKIEST! And it truly SUCKS for me. Others will come to his defense, this I know because I see it here all the time. MSM even does it ALL THE TIME, so my words are only opinion. However, and opinion that is prevalent among many true Democrats, and not just liberals.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
46. +1000. nt
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
39. I have been telling him not to cave
since before he caved the first time. I now firmly believe this was his non-stated secret mission -to cave to the corporate agenda all the while putting as Democratic face on his presidency as possible.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #39
75. The only way he could get elected in Illinois was to run as a Democrat
Because the Illinois GOP did NOT nominate blacks.
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
98. If you are lucky enough to be one of the four $5 a plate with the Prez prize winners

then please pass that message along. I just hope that he is seated at the table with you and that you don't have 50 Wall Street execs in between you and him.
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ellenfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
17. if he does cave . . . i see a primary challenge in his future. eom
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Me too and Andrew is at the top of my list. I voted for a Dem...n/t
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. LOL, so you are gonna primary Obama from the right then.
I love it that people are propping up a guy they obviously didn't bother to find out anything about. Cuomo is NOT a rabid liberal by any stretch of the imagination.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. I'm sure you're right, I'm just that disappointed so far in Obama....n/t
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
40. You are correct.
He is in the same camp as Obama and Clinton. We need someone clear away from the corporate directive.
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
74. He was my former boss here at HUD, and DU would be shocked to learn
that is is FAR from being a liberal. Like Bill Clinton, he is DLC.
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
97. +1
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
18. ouch
This is what I've been saying on DU for a while now and have been attacked mercilessly for it. When your own party congressional leaders think you're a wimp, well.....
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craigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
22. yeah he's going to cave
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
99. That would not bode well for the future of the party or the country.
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
25. Well, what's he waiting for, exactly?
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 11:15 AM by Proud Liberal Dem
I mean, if he's so damned determined to cave, why hasn't he already???? :shrug:
People don't usually waste their time sitting around waiting to just give up. Why doesn't he just spare us the "will he, won't he" drama and just do it already?
What do Waxman and the Republicans whom fervently believe Obama is going to "cave" think that Obama is waiting for (or hoping to get out of caving)? What do they even mean? Do they mean that they believe that Obama is going to walk away with crumbs for the rest of us and give the Repubs 99% of what they want? According to some people, Obama "caved" simply by agreeing to negotiate after Cantor walked out. There will ultimately be a deal and Waxman may not like but would any deal constitute a "cave" at this point? He DOES realize that the Republicans are currently in control of the House and that the Democrats have to deal with the Republicans to get a debt ceiling increase approved, right?

:wtf:
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
47. a friday news dump of epic proportions?
The hesitation to take a stand through any of this pretty much proves he's going to cave. Just waiting for the moment to do so. That *Change We Can Believe In* has turned into *I'll give the economic terrorists everything they want - as long as you let me call it ^historic change^ in my next speech and in my *legacy writings* *...

:puke:
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. I can't believe I'm on a Democratic Party-oriented website when I read stuff like this.
:puke:
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. I'm saving this hysteria to laugh at it later. n/t
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. did you do that after the last time he caved? Did you know people
on this board are homeless and some of us are working two or more parttime jobs in our dotage to keep from eating dog food in the ditch? You need to get out more. so does he.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #64
77. I don't need to get out more.
I'm sorry that we are where we are. Who the hell isn't?

But I'm tired of people acting like Obama's the great enabler when we're seeing the effects of what Bush put in motion coming to fruition. The shit was gonna hit the fan and Obama said as much during the campaign.

So here we are trying to dig out of it. And the President's trying to get it done while working against people who really don't much care if the poor, elderly and middle class simply drop dead.

And those people have the power to make the laws. We can't vaporize them, so what the hell are the options?

I'm lucky to be employed. I was laid off and while I've found work, I don't have a very stable job situation and am somewhat underemployed. I won't get into a pissing match about not being able to speak to having problems, but I know whose fault it was that this situation came about in the first place.

But to say Obama's weak and doing nothing? I guess it's easy to say when we've been spared the fact that McCain/Palin could be running things now. If only we had the power to compare and contrast.

If you're saying he "caved" to tax cuts, then we'll agree to disagree. I guess he could've let the unemployment benefits lapse to stand on principle, but I suspect those who continued to receive those benefits are glad he didn't. And I'm glad for them.
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #77
108. All he has to do is...



That's it.
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #108
117. Yes. Veto. THat is all. nt
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. Will you believe it after he caves?
What will it take for you finally give up on this guy? Just how bad will it have to get? Will a cave on tax cuts do it? Is this the last straw or will you follow this guy off a cliff? At what point will Obama and the Democrats that support him leave you behind?
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. There are a few things
that if he did/agreed to would make it more difficult to continue to support President Obama and the Dems like, say, endorsing/passing the Ryan Budget Plan, gutting Medicare and/or Social Security benefits. However, those things, particularly the Ryan Budget Plan and Ryancare are so far removed from reality (and doing significant damage to the Republicans) that I can't ever see it happening. I also don't know why he'd be gung ho on more tax cuts given that they're trying to negotiate for more tax REVENUE.

As I said earlier, what's he waiting for? If he were intent on caving, he would've done so by now. There would've been no reason to keep dragging everything out if that's all he was ever planning on doing. Also, the Republicans would appear to have a LOT more to lose if they don't raise the debt ceiling but they also have to try to keep the Tea Party cult with them, so that's why they're trying to drag things out and demand all kinds of crazy concessions that the Dems aren't going to ever agree to.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #58
79. So since you seem to have given up, what are you doing instead?
Are you doing something to support a primary challenger? If so, who?
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #52
63. I can't believe you can read his remarks to a dem who is trying to
save us all and not see that he's an ego driven tool. how much of your ass does he have to give away before you even acknowledge that your hero is just a man?
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #63
69. ??????????
n/t
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #52
100. Does Democratic mean subservient?

Where's the strength that Obama came in with? I want to see that fire.
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #52
104. That is left-oriented, not necessarily Democratic Party. n/t
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #104
110. True- but I thought that our real "enemy" is the GOP
:shrug:

Instead I just find post after post with high rec counts endlessly blasting President Obama for his real and/or perceived betrayals and/or imperfections.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #110
129. While you are busy worrying about "the real enemy" your "friends" are robbing you blind.
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 05:51 AM by rhett o rick
While the Republicans want to take all our Social Security, Obama wants them only to take part. We win with Obama.

It's a game of bad cop, worse cop.
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #129
133. Cutting money in some areas (i.e. eliminating waste, inefficiency)
is not the same as cutting benefits, which Obama is already on the record opposing (the same is the case for Medicare).
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #133
136. I guess we will see. nm
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BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
27. Is this the same Waxman who was suppose to investigate Bush...
and ended up investigating Clinton instead?


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0907/5784.html


I believe it is.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. is that the best you can come up with against Waxman?
keep digging, I'm sure you can come up with more than that.
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BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. You assume I need to
I stopped taking Waxman seriously in 2007.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #27
60. Hmm... should Waxman primary Obama or impeach him?
Decisions, decisons.

:rofl:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
31. This is not
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 12:06 PM by ProSense
Waxman to Obama. This is an unnamed Democrat relaying a story.

<...>

Obama, however, didnt answer the question, the Democrat added. Obama got in a huff, and he said, Im the president of the United States, my words carry weight which is not the answer, the lawmaker said. Thats not what anyone challenges. Its whether he is doing this negotiation in the right way.

<...>

Yeah, that sounds totally believable.

:rofl:

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. "Yeah, that sounds totally believable."
I'm glad you agree. I did not expect this out of you.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
51. Yep. "unnamed Democrat" who said "Obama got in a huff".
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 01:43 PM by Avalux
How clever to set up the recall (heresay) as a negative. ;-)
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
102. Were you ROFLing the last time the tax cuts remained in place?

If it happens again then nobody will be laughing on this site.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
32. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Don't you mean
except when he's standing up to progressives?

The Obama caved/Obama is weak meme is bullshit.

Everyone from Sanders to Waxman is using it to strengthen the argument that Republicans are despicable in protecting the loopholes and tax cuts for the rich.

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. Do you still believe that the prez means to stand up to Republicans...
...rather than join them?
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #34
48. pretty much a cowardly act to crap all over the ones who gave you your job, dontcha think?
What a mensch -- he can get all badass to the folks who bought his *hope and change* lies as truth.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Actually,
the attempts to pit Obama against progressives is absurd.

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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Tell that to Rahm and Robert Gibbs. nt
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #49
128. Who is "attempting" to pit Obama against progressives? Do you think that progressives
that supported Obama thru his election, suddenly decided to turn on him w/o reason? That's absurd. It was Obama's decision to move to the right.
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
103. I'm bookmarking this for my scrap book. Thanks.
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #103
106. +1
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #32
42. It's part of the act.......nt
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
65. act? is there proof or is this just wishful thinking? I would really like
to know.
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great white snark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #32
43. Hitler's slug! And when he walks he leaves a slime trail behind him!
Weak and ineffectual? More progressive legislation has passed now than the last 20 years combined.

If he's pissing of Republicans and the left of the left he must be doing something right.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #43
84. Prolonging tax cuts for the idle rich and threatening to cut Social Security
Medicare and Medicaid completely take precedence over any Nixonian legislation he may have helped to pass.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. excellent point
and I love the phrase Nixonian legislation. You nailed it :hi:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
35. His defensive answer indicates he's going to support the GOP priorities.
If he does I'm seriously going to start losing faith in him and might support a competitor.

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. He plans to cave.
The insiders already know it. But our Democratic Party representatives aren't sure. This way we can maximize the disappointment level so as to elect more Republicans in 2012. Then there will be zero danger of enacting any legislation that isn't purely pro-corporation.

If Obama caves his viability as POTUS will be at an end. I guess he doesn't care.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
44. Bookmarking this selective context claptrap for later
when it can be held up as another example of "sky is falling" doomsday interpretation from ONE congressman's secondhand account.

Here's another bit of the article that was conveniently omitted from another congressman who was WILLING to go on the record with his name:

Not all Democrats are frustrated with Obama. Most note that entrenched GOP opposition has tied his hands.

Rep. Mike Honda (D-Calif.) said the frustrations voiced on June 2 were not unusual between a president and lawmakers of the same party. There were tensions, and thats OK, he said. Hes got his own dynamics hes got to deal with. All he wants to do is have us understand that. That doesnt mean we have to agree.



SMH...
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. Wow - so his hands are tied? What about bush, why couldn't we tie his hands?
Bush was the freakin decider by his own admission and no one tied his hands or even whispered that he was tied in any way at all. Are these just excuses?
Though I agree, not all dems are frustrated with Obama, a majority of them on this board are.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Because the Congressional Dems didn't have the SPINE to tie GWB's hands
This current crop of Republican nutjobs are willing to play chicken with the lives of the American people.

And don't underestimate the incalculable value of a complacent, Corporate-friendly MSM that looks the other way and digs up pop culture fluff whenever the R's pull shit like that. One thing that would help inhibit the D's is that their every misstep would be repeated with media bullhorns.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. and there you have it...because they don't have the spine
and they won't find it anytime soon so maybe Obama needs to veto the hell out of everything he doesn't like instead of giving his word to compromise with a bunch of worthless republicans and spineless congressional dems.
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #54
105. The President has the power of the veto. Right?

Spineless Congressional critters aside, if the President wants to thwart any legislation that will gut SS while giving permanent tax cuts to the wealthy all he has to do is veto the bill.


Right?


I really hope he does that.


Will he?
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #50
107. +1
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #44
66. and I will too when he caves.
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
68. Disappointed
again
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
70. An unnamed unveriable source? The "colleague" sounds like an angry PUMA making up melodramatic shit.
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 04:38 PM by ClarkUSA
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. lol, PUMAs
3 years after the primaries ended, and with Hillary as Obama's Sec. of State, and with an Obama administration full of Clinton people, still talking about Pumas. It's crazy.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. No, still DEALING with them.
I agree. Crazy.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #82
87. probably rodent lips Lanny Davis set this little nugget free.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #76
83. Yes, PUMAs exist and they are "crazy". BTW, the OP story = Obama-bashing unsubstantiated hearsay...
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 06:59 PM by ClarkUSA
.... from an unnamed source, no less.

Perhaps it was Loretta Sanchez, Waxman's CA "colleague"... she fits the MO perfectly:

1. http://latinopoliticsblog.com/2008/08/16/will-someone-t... /
2. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #76
113. PUMA's still have their own active message boards.
Someone should tell them the primaries ended 3 years ago.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #76
138. Some DUers I read just for the lulz. n/t
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
73. Sorry to say...
I don't feel confident that they aren't caving in...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
81. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. The "Con" is being perpetuated by those who pretend to have no understanding
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 06:33 PM by FrenchieCat
how government works but pretend to!

Democrats Waver on Ending Bush Tax Cuts for Wealthy
January 22, 2010

Last year, President Obama kept his campaign promise to cut taxes for 95% of American households. But facing tough reelection prospects in November, a group of House Democrats is getting weak in the knees when its comes to Obama's pledge to reduce the budget deficit by letting the Bush tax cuts expire for Americans making over $250,000 a year. By delivering a massive windfall for the richest Americans while producing red ink as far as the eye can see, that surrender would not only be bad politics, it would be bad policy.

Reps. Bobby Bright (D-Ala.) and Mike McMahon (D-N.Y.) asked members in a "Dear Colleague" letter Thursday to support extending the tax cuts, which passed in 2001 and 2003 and are set to expire this year, for at least another two years. Specifically, Bright and McMahon are asking lawmakers to sign a letter to Obama asking him to include the tax cuts in his budget plans for 2010.
"Allowing these tax rates to expire during this recession runs the risk of curtailing economic expansion just when it begins to pick up and could lead to a 'double dip' recession," says the letter to Obama.

Questioning Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner last week, Reps. Gerry Connolly (D-VA) and Harry Mitchell (D-AZ) made clear that Bright and McMahon are not alone. While Geither contended that "I don't think that would be good policy for the country," Connolly argued, "I think there is a certain logic to leaving well-enough alone for now, given the fragility of the economic recovery." Mitchell echoed that line:

"Given the unique economic difficulties we face as a nation, this is the wrong time to raise these taxes. We need to retain these tax cuts that encourage investment that stimulates growth and job creation."

...feckless Democrats like Bright and McMahon are doing the work of the Republican Party and its allies like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB). (This debate, after all, comes just three weeks after Republican obstructionism resulted in a one-year elimination of the estate tax, draining $25 billion from the Treasury, all on behalf of only 1 in 500 estates.) Despite the fact that the expiration of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy impacts less than 2% of small business owners, Republican leaders like Mitch McConnell claim that "when our good friends on the other side of the aisle say raising the taxes on the wealthy, what they are really talking about is small business."
http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/001733.htm


Dems wont pass budget in 2010
By Jared Allen - 06/22/10 12:01 AM ET

House Democrats will not pass a budget blueprint in 2010, Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) will confirm in a speech on Tuesday.

But Hoyer will vow to crack down on government spending, saying Democrats will enforce spending limits that are lower than what President Barack Obama has called for.

The nations debt and budget deficits and what to do about them are the theme of Hoyers speech.

Its also the issue thats destroying whats left of the Democrats jobs agenda as centrist Democrats have balked at the price tag of such measures.

For weeks, Democratic leaders have tried to strike a deal on the budget, which is a non-binding resolution, but to no avail.

The talks triggered splits in the Democratic Caucus, alienating conservative Democrats from their liberal colleagues.

The Houses decision not to pursue a budget resolution comes as the Senate has been struggling to get its companion measure to the floor. And the politics of the moment are a far cry from last year, when the House and Senate easily passed Obamas first budget on the presidents 100th day in office. The budget measure last year did not attract any GOP support.
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/104635-dems-wont-pass...


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
86. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
90. He'll CAVE. He's DLC. What the hell else would he do? nt
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #90
109. Wrong. President Obama is not DLC and never has been... unlike the Clintons.
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 10:58 PM by ClarkUSA
Speaking of caving to Republicans, President Obama refuses to cut Social Security, as Bill Clinton did when he was President:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Harmony Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #109
112. Obama may not be a DLC type
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 11:04 PM by Harmony Blue
but he is using Clinton's blueprint of staying in the center. I think that is a mistake, given the feeling throughout the country, and even Independents probably are looking for a candidate that stands out now. In other words, in a situation where the economy is strong, a pragmatic, methodical centrist is seen as very reasonable. But in a economy grinding along slowly, the methodical approach doesn't resonate with voters, but either swift action, or words to spur enthusiasm. Obama tends to take a patient long term view of a stance, but this can be confusing to voters and they may see it as complacency instead with no sense of urgency with what is happening now.

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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. I disagree. President Obama's demeanor is moderate but his policies are liberal.
Edited on Tue Jun-28-11 11:30 PM by ClarkUSA
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #114
132. "but his policies are liberal." OMFG. What planet have you been living on for the last two years?
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #109
131. WRONG. President Obama has self declared as a "New Dem" aka "DLC".
Wikipedia: The New Democrat Coalition was founded in 1997 by Representatives Cal Dooley (California), Jim Moran (Virginia) and Timothy J. Roemer (Indiana) as a congressional affiliate of the avowedly centrist Democratic Leadership Council, whose members, including former President Bill Clinton, call themselves "New Democrats."

Politico: President Barack Obama firmly resists ideological labels, but at the end of a private meeting with a group of moderate Democrats on Tuesday afternoon, he offered a statement of solidarity.

I am a New Democrat, he told the New Democrat Coalition.
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BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-11 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #131
137. according to two sources at the White House session
Yeah, show me a quote that came from his actual mouth. Funny how you cut off the part about the sources.

I am a New Democrat, he told the New Democrat Coalition, according to two sources at the White House session.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19862.html

Quoted for honesty
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #90
121. He won't cave, he'll cooperate. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
111. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #111
115. +100,000
:thumbsup:
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CrazyBob Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
118. This is shocking...
Edited on Wed Jun-29-11 12:07 AM by CrazyBob
...for all those who claimed Obama hadn't done any such thing. Or those who claimed that the "professional left" just wasn't satisfied that Obama at least got a half a loaf.

Fact is, when you consistently cave, it diminishes your ability to fight next time. It makes it less likely that people will stand with you in the future. And it emboldens the opposition to fight harder next time.

Translation: votes or no votes, sometimes you gotta show the other guy that you are willing to go all the way.
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vroomvroom Donating Member (496 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #118
124. K&R
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
123. Carville's words come to mind.
Something about someone lacking a full set.........

:eyes:



:7
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #123
135. From the guy whose own are being held by Mary Matalin.
:rofl:

Sorry, but you'll be disappointed once again, methinks.

:hi:
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
125. I am sick of shallow leadership and lying sacks of hip shit....
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-29-11 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
134. "Obama Caved": Luntz tested, GOP approved. nt
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