The more that comes out on this bin Laden raid, the more I believe it was one of the gutsiest...

[Drunken Irishman]

The more that comes out on this bin Laden raid, the more I believe it was one of the gutsiest calls in presidential history.

Think I'm overselling it?

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2011/05/10/bin_laden_assault_team_was_prepared_to_fight_pakistani_forces/">Bin Laden assault team was prepared to fight Pakistani forces

President Obama insisted that the assault force hunting down Osama bin Laden last week be large enough to fight its way out of Pakistan if confronted by hostile local police officers and troops, senior administration and military officials said yesterday.

In revealing additional details about planning for the mission, senior officials also said that two teams of specialists were on standby: one to bury bin Laden if he was killed, and a second composed of lawyers, interrogators, and translators in case he was captured alive. That team was set to meet aboard a Navy ship, most likely the aircraft carrier Carl Vinson in the North Arabian Sea.

Imagine if the Pakistani forces arrived and there was a firefight right there in Abbottabad. It would have been disastrous for Pres. Obama. Especially if troops were lost during a conflict.

He made this decision knowing the consequences could have resulted in a major international crisis.

Now maybe we'll put to rest this silly and ridiculous notion that Pres. Obama is somehow weak.

[Warren DeMontague]

1. I agree.

And he did the right thing, knowing that he could catch all kinds of shit for it in fifty different ways.

That's leadership.

[Raine]

2. Absolutely!

Obama has disappointed me on domestic issues but I'm very impressed with him on this and proud of him!

[dkf]

3. And they were prepared to arrest Bin Laden if he surrendered.

[crikkett]

29. link please?

[jaxx]

4. It was gutsy, and produced results that will go down in history.

Well done all around.

[Enrique]

5. that information didn't "come out"

government officials are putting it out.

[asphalt.jungle]

6. how else does highly classified info of recent events get out?

pretty much every book Bob Woodward's wrote has been based on "put out" information.

[Enrique]

12. it sometimes comes out years later

sometimes it doesn't take that long, like in the cases of Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman.

It comes out when eyewitnesses tell what they saw. This operation took place in a populated area. There were people around.

It comes out when officials testify publicly under oath, instead of leaking stories to reporters.

It comes out when one of the SEALs writes a book about it.

[asphalt.jungle]

27. at that point it's no longer "recent"

note the use of that word in my post. this event happened 9 days ago, how else does info like that get out.

[vaberella]

33. Question...didn't was ask for transparency. Not to mention, the SEALs were not in the room.

So I don't know how you expect me to believe they write a book and we're in the know about what goes on in the situation room. This is a new President. He had a press conference and has been releasing information regularly on this matter. This is what is called transparency. But now...stuff don't happen like this...well things change and are not absolute in every single case.

[Enrique]

47. oh, and of course Wikileaks

how could I leave them out?

[phleshdef]

9. Which also means it "came out".

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[Swede]

15. Splitting hairs,for what purpose?

FFS

[Enrique]

16. it's a huge difference

hearing a story and thinking, "this is what happened" vs. thinking "this is what some unnamed guy says what happened."

[cartach]

39. Man,you're really grasping at straws,give it up.

[vaberella]

32. What is this?! It's semantics, who cares? Ahh...unless you don't believe it played out that way.

n/t

[cartach]

38. Take an English course before you comment.

[backscatter712]

7. It also puts to bed the accusation that this was a pure assassination.

The SEAL team was clearly prepared to either kill or capture Osama bin Laden, but bin Laden resisted and got shot. What did you expect the SEAL team members to do? They were in hostile territory, dealing with the most wanted man alive, and he didn't surrender. Maybe he had a suicide vest, or had the building rigged to blow, he wasn't putting his hands in the air and surrendering. The SEALS had no way of knowing, so he got shot.

But the fact that there was that team of lawyers, interrogators and translators ready shows that they were prepared to bring OBL in alive if the situation allowed it.

[AtomicKitten]

10. It should disprove the accusation but will be dismissed by some for doing just that.

But the fact that there was that team of lawyers, interrogators and translators ready shows that they were prepared to bring OBL in alive if the situation allowed it.

:thumbsup:

It doesn't fit the narrative, so cherry picking ahoy!

[Capitalocracy]

46. I'm a vociferous proponent of a trial if it's possible

and if the order really was capture or kill as this article suggests, I'm satisfied. So don't go making accusations about me. I'm not looking for things to get on my high horse about... the story has undergone some rather suspect revisions, and I asked the questions I feel it's my duty to ask. Now if this story is true, that they were prepared for a capture, then I'm happy.

[AtomicKitten]

50. Um, I was neither talking to nor referring to you.

Much less accusing you of anything.

[Capitalocracy]

52. Sounded like a blanket statement

about those people who are handwringing about whether or not this was an extrajudicial execution, claiming they'll never be satisfied

Again, I never claim to know the truth because... well, because it seems like we never know. But it really seemed like something was fishy and this might have been an execution to avoid trial. I hope this report is true, because that would mean it really wasn't possible in this situation to take him alive, and they really would've done so if they could.

[AtomicKitten]

54. I have no problem with, in fact hope people consider all the information available.

I was talking about people that summarily dismiss data that doesn't comport with their predetermined opinion on any given issue. Sometimes people hear only what they want to hear.

I was glad to hear of the translators sent along on this mission. When Junior invaded Iraq, he had fired all the LGBT translators and went in with no translators. That combined with too many soldiers believing Saddam Hussein was the perpetrator behind 9/11 led to some unwarranted and shamefully aggressive tactics used against Iraq's citizens.

[chrisa]

49. Another problem - What if reinforcements arrived and freed Osama Bin Laden.

He would be gone from our grasp again, and even more careful.

At least, with him dead, the mission was fulfilled. If Pakistani forces arrived, the SEALS would have most certainly been wiped out. It would have become a suicide mission.

[Capitalocracy]

53. In that case, even I would've been in favor of just shooting him.

Can't let him go.

[robcon]

8. Agreed.

n/t

[Phx_Dem]

11. K&R

[AngryAmish]

14. So true, especially when compared to the Louisiana Purchase.

Or the Emancipation Proclamation. Or the decision to return the Panama Canal. Or creating Social Security. Or the Cuban Missle Crisis.

Gutsy.





Gutsy.

[kick-ass-bob]

21. to be fair, he did say "one of the gutsiest"

Not "the gutsiest ever" :)

[Ignis]

24. Fiercely gutsy.

[MannyGoldstein]

36. Or the Civil War. Or the Lend Lease Act. Or the New Deal.

Or entering WWII in Europe. Or declaration to land a man on the moon before 1970. Or the decision to create the atomic bomb. Or the decision to us the atomic bomb. Or the decision to defend South Korea against North Korea and China. Or...

Perhaps we can nullify the 22nd Amendment to the Constitution so Obama can have as many terms as he deserves. I actually think we'd get a lot of contribution from the wealthiest Americans to help this cause.

[Avant Guardian]

17. This is what Democrats do in a crisis

They make bold moves. Carter tried to rescue the hostages in Iran. Clinton boldly went after Bin Laden. Obama tracked down Bin Laden and got rid of him once and for all. You never ever see republicans doing anything bold like this. Everything they do is related to making money or gaining power.

[MadMaddie]

23. They do one more thing "They talk shit" that's all they do

they never have a plan but all that gets reporting is the shit talking.

[Avant Guardian]

55. You hit the nail on the head

[Tarheel_Dem]

18. Gutsy indeed Sir.

:kick:

[CakeGrrl]

19. K/R.

I'll laugh in the face, literally or in cyberspace, of anyone who wants to maintain that he's "weak", "ineffectual", "not a leader", or "hasn't accomplished anything". Those claims carry no credibility.

[Robb]

20. It does look that way. Also, somewhere on the CIA payroll...

...it the best salesman in the history of the universe.

Think about it. There's been a lot of talk about what they were planning to do with a living or dead OBL. But remember, even the CIA admitted no one had actually laid eyes on him, the entire time they were watching the compound. They were pretty sure, but not 100% sure.

And someone walked into the President's office and convinced him they most likely had him. That, my friends, is pure sales; because you can talk about bad intelligence all you want, but the guy holding the bag at the end of a bad operation is the man in the Oval Office.

[boppers]

30. Well, think about it this way:

How many missions that *don't* pan out do we actually hear about? If OBL wasn't there, it would have been a raid on "a senior Al-Queda courier", if it was mentioned at all, much like our missile strikes on potential targets that don't always turn out to be the intended targets.

[indepat]

22. Would be silly indeed to ever think the RW won't always paint a Democratic president as

weak on national defense and soft on crime, drugs, and terra: that's what they do no matter the facts, no matter reality, no matter truth. :patriot:

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

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[Drunken Irishman]

26. If Bush cured cancer...

If Bush did this...if Bush did that...

Bottom line, Bush didn't and I doubt he would have done what Pres. Obama did.

[Vattel]

28. I don't see anything gutsy or tough here.

What I do see is a President who, instead of killing OBL by bombing his compound to smithereens, had the wisdom to prefer a raid that minimized harm to innocent bystanders. An added bonus was the greater amount of intelligence that was acquired by not blowing up everything. Good choices by President Obama.

[vaberella]

31. They say gutsy for one reason. He defied the will of the military officials...

and the majority of people in the room. He was alone in this and then he was backed by Panetta to go through with it.

[former9thward]

48. Seems like you were in the room to know all of this.

[vaberella]

51. Fits the scenario overall.

Because really what he did was the smart and logical thing.

[Vattel]

56. Oh, OK; I hadn't read that. Thanks.

[Crowman1979]

35. It looks like they are silencing the boogy man before he spills the beans.

Otherwise if they actually arrested him and found out who was paying him off, then some americans would finally be charged with war crime.

[Larry L. Burks]

40. They not only found out who was funding him.

They also found out who all was on the pay roll.

The paper trail.

They got it all.

The question now is? Who all is going to go to jail?

How many?

[lucca18]

34. Yes, a very gutsy move by President Obama.

The pressure he must have been under. He was steady and focused. Amazing!!!

[lutherj]

37. The biggest risk would have been the international conflict that would arise if Pakistani

forces engaged us and prevented us from taking bin Laden. Imagine how that would go over with congress and the american people. It would have been the beginning of another major war.

[Drunken Irishman]

43. And you know Republicans would try to impeach him over it...

[paulkienitz]

41. Guardian says some pakis may have been in on it

There's apparently been a deal in place since 2002 under which we would be permitted to go after selected high-value targets such as bin Laden inside Pakistan, and the government would protest loudly in public but wink and stay out of the way in private. That may be exactly what happened here. But of course, one can't be sure in the heat of the moment whether such a deal is going to hold up, without some hothead attacking...

[JDPriestly]

42. I think he would get the country's full support if he would

just make Wall Street pay us back for the mess they made of our economy.

Getting Bin Laden is step No. 1, but he still has to restore the stolen wealth of our country and give back to the middle class what the hedge funds and folks on Wall Street stole from average Americans.

And if you question whether they stole it, if you think I am exaggerating, please read Matt Taibbi's Griftopia.

[flamingdem]

44. I shudder to think if it had gone badly

but am happy to know Obama built in so many contingency plans.

He deserves maximum credit along with all involved.

[Capitalocracy]

45. If that's true, it assuages my concerns about an extrajudicial execution

in order to avoid the "hassle" of a trial that so many here have been so happy to throw by the wayside.

I hope it's true. Then I can actually be happy about something Obama did. Now when are we going to end the wars and close Gitmo?