Releasing birth certificate is a good move

[ProSense]

Releasing birth certificate is a good move

by kos



Sure, it might seem like "giving in" to the enemy -- responding to right-wing hysteria and releasing the long-form birth certificate. But here's why the move is a canny one:

1. It keeps the issue in the news. Even more so, it gives it that much more visibility. And let's face it, this is a huge loser for the GOP. What better way to show how out-of-touch and irrational Republicans are, than to rub this in their face.
   
   
2. The media has already treated the birthers harshly, equating them with the truthers (and deservedly so). But while the truthers never got buy in from any progressive of note, the birthers have been fully embraced by top conservative leaders. Heck, Donald Trump has based his presidential flirtations entirely on birtherism. So if the media was harsh to the birthers before today, how do you think they'll react when the headlines are: Trump Adviser: Even If Long-Form Birth Certificate Is Genuine, It Doesn’t Prove Anything.
   
   
3. The narrative now is how Republicans deal with this outburst of crazy. It's the kind of GOP vs GOP story we rarely get. Enjoy it.
   
   
4. The entire birther movement used to revolve around the single question: "Why won't Obama release his long-form birth certificate". While their claims were idiotic, that demand had a smidgeon of reasonableness to it. Now that Obama has verified the obvious, the birthers have lost all semblance of rationality. At this point, those who cling to their Kenyan theories are beyond redemption. (As we all knew they were.)

Look, there's a reason why key Republican strategists are trying to shut this thing down.

<...>

The head of the RNC has been waging a losing battle for his party's sanity:

more

Kooks in the house!

Maybe the media will be the media and keep it alive. They can question Boehner, Cantor and all the Republican Presidential candidates about their crazy base!


On edit: Maybe the media will ask Republicans about the book.

:rofl:

[bigwillq]

1. I think it was a good move too.

After today the ones who keep bringing it up will look like the fools, not Obama. Obama said his peace. Case closed.

[ProSense]

2. Evidently,

someone isn't happy about this.

:rofl:

[bigwillq]

3. Well then that's their problem.

If folks want to be upset over it, I'm not stopping them. But it's time to move on, past this "silliness"

[Whisp]

14. well CNN is looking like the usual fools they are

most of the day's programming is about the BC. even after Obama pretty well said the media is an agent in this foolery.

no shame, no glory, no integrity. no real news.

[Avant Guardian]

39. Well, duh!

CNN is tabloid 'news'.

[Vinnie From Indy]

4. Yeah sure! Waiting for over two years to release this was brilliant!

Th last thing our country needs is to have the media continue to feed us distraction, lies and propaganda in the guise of "news" reporting. America has gone insane!

[ProSense]

5. Hey

pick up a copy.

You might enjoy it!!!

:rofl:

[Fire1]

67. I think he gave 60% of the citizenry more credit than they're

due and thought it would blow over.

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. Absolutely. If that certificate would be acceptable for anyone else, it should

be acceptable for Obama. Thus making the right-wing arguments racists.

[hlthe2b]

7. Good post....

Question, ProSense.... How do you embed links under your blue highlighted summations? What tool do you use? ;)

[MattSh]

8. Releasing birth certificate IS a good move!

Now maybe DU can move on and focus on something more important.

[slay]

9. I disagree

as I often do with you ProSense. By not releasing it - he makes the republicans and tea-baggers continue to look nuts. But by doing so - Trump is right - it looks like he caused it to be released. You think this will satisfy those buffoons? It won't. I mean, it's not a huge deal to me, never was, but I see no need for him to do this now - why not do it closer to 2012 when he could have suckered people like Trump into making a huge deal over this just to slam him down? Bad timing at best. Meh, whatever.

[ProSense]

11. Hmmmm?

"By not releasing it - he makes the republicans and tea-baggers continue to look nuts."

So you're saying that releasing it makes them no longer look like "nuts"?

"But by doing so - Trump is right - it looks like he caused it to be released. You think this will satisfy those buffoons?"

What do you think?

"Trump is right"

Oh, that's rich!

:rofl:

[JTFrog]

63. "You think this will satisfy those buffoons"?

I'd hate to agree, but it quite OBVIOUS that some will never be satisfied.

[Azathoth]

10. Kos's first point means that the release was a failure

The whole objective was to get the birth certificate bullshit *out* of the news, not make it an even bigger story.

This issue isn't the death blow to Republicans that liberals like Kos seem to think it is. It's an issue that is relevant only to the lunatic GOP base. No matter how raucous the GOP primaries get over birth certificates and "natural born citizens," no one who isn't a Republican troglodyte will care since the average voter only tunes in after the conventions and the eventual GOP nominee almost certainly won't build his general election campaign around the issue. Once the general campaign starts, most voters won't give two shits whether the nominee believes Obama is a Kenyan or not. The electorate has proven time and again that they will vote for Republicans no matter how insane their personal beliefs.

[ProSense]

12. Nope, the first point is

explained by the third point:

"The narrative now is how Republicans deal with this outburst of crazy. It's the kind of GOP vs GOP story we rarely get. Enjoy it."

The President's statement was aimed at the media, not the lunatics.

The lunatics will continue to ramp up the crazy.

[Azathoth]

13. So he chastises the press for keeping the issue alive in order to keep the issue alive?

Either he wants the issue out of the news cycle or he doesn't.

[Whisp]

15. how would you handle this ridiculousness, Genius?

I think Obama did as best he could with the worst of the lot of journalists and crazy assed raving loons.

[Azathoth]

18. I was responding to Kos's contradictory statement

If Obama's wanted this issue to die, then Kos's first point would indicate that he failed.

How would I have handled it? I certainly wouldn't have called a press conference so that I could capitulate to the deranged demands of a group of racists on national television. If the absolute worst case scenario, I would have silently included it along with other documents as part of some kind of routine campaign filing.

[Whisp]

19. good thing you are not Advisor to the President

but everyone thinks they should be

[Azathoth]

22. "Good thing"? Care to include as least a minimal explanation along with your ad hominem? n/t

[Whisp]

26. read post 12 it explains it all very well.

good thing you can read

[Azathoth]

30. Yes, good thing I can read. Sadly, though, you can't seem to express yourself

nt

[Whisp]

31. yes, it's all about Me...

and of course, You.

better put that application in for Chief Advisor soon!

[ProSense]

16. Here:

Our Brilliant President

The release of the Long Form today was not intended to shut the bithers up. There is nothing anyone can do about gross ignorance and racism and as a Black man all of his life the President is absolutely aware of it. He didn’t release it for them.

The President released the long form as an indictment of our MSM which is the absolute culprit in this sorry affair.

He made it a point to tell the world what the real issue was. We have serious problems that require serious deliberations and our MSM is currently behaving like they take their standards and practices from the National Enquirer. This is dangerous for our nation with Citizens United and unlimited capital available to promote their lies. He has just tossed down a Presidential marker to be done with that silliness.

Right now in newsrooms all across the land if there are any editors or producers who still have the ability to feel shame they should be feeling it, because for three years now they have participated in an open slander of the President and his mother and father. Every birther Congressman who they molly coddled and did not call a liar every time they opened their mouths is now in their portfolio.

The birthers are now going to go the full Monty on racism. They are now going to call the President an affirmative action icon. They are going to do what they do to all people of color who have talent and have done better than them which is to call their achievements the results of some special treatment.

This is a fight as our President would say I’m willing to have and I’d like to know if it’s a fight that people who consider themselves progressives should also be willing to have. Already I see comments flying around here about how this is yet another cave, and that’s disgusting. This is ammunition for battle, but the issue is what the enemy is. Racism and the fact the Southern Strategy is still effective, or Barack Obama. The fight against racism is a life long fight for me, so there is no doubt I’m all in. The question I have in my mind is what will so called Progressives do now, will they take this opportunity to brand the Republicans as the racist nuts they are, and indict the entity we all used to know sucked the MSM, or will they attack the President.

Calling out the media, priceless!

[mwooldri]

27. MSM taking National Enquirers' standards and practices. Hmm...

I think that's a slur against the National Enquirer.

[Azathoth]

29. Yeah, the media was so ashamed that they immediately cut to Trump's press conference.

They're just "reporting on what others are saying," after all.

[ProSense]

32. Obviously,

this is great news for Republicans, huh?

No one said the media pundits are capable of shame, but why shouldn't they be called out?

[Avant Guardian]

17. Reacting to crackpots is below the dignity of the office

IMHO

[ProSense]

20. Since the

"crackpots" are members of the WH press corp and CNN pundits, the "dignity of the office" is brought into question daily, right?

[Avant Guardian]

35. Yes, the tabloid press jump all over crackpot 'issues'

Your point?

[FrenchieCat]

23. Republicans are crackpot.....

but in this country, at this time,
when crackpots are ignored,
they get voted into office (see election 2010)....
so I don't think you know as much as you think you do....
even though you state your opinion as though it is a fact,
when in reality, it ain't. Not even close.

[Avant Guardian]

36. So, if Obama doesn't react to whatever crackpot drama it tossed his way...

...we are doomed?

[FrenchieCat]

38. We are doomed anyways, because we have ignorant assholes

that question everything the president does or say in the negative,
no matter what....and somehow, the President is the one who is judged
harshly at every turn, while the nutcases sell bullshit to the American
public with the help of a fucked up media...and many buy into it.

[Avant Guardian]

41. We are doomed anyways?

No, we are not doomed anyways.

[Fire1]

68. So true. n/t

[phleshdef]

25. But reacting to media controversy is a requirement of every high office.

Just ask John Kerry how stupid it is to ignore the controversy when the media is pounding on it 24/7. The "dignity of the office" doesn't mean a god damn thing. This is politics in the year 2011.

[Avant Guardian]

37. It isnt a 'media controversy'

There is no controversy. It is a RW crackpot kook issue, and as such it is below the dignity of the office.

[phleshdef]

40. Bullshit. I have a television. I watch it. The media has been talking about this shit nonstop.

You can't tell me what I do and don't see on my television. I know whats on it. I watch the fucking thing more than I ever should.

Its none of your business to tell him what personal attacks he should or should not respond to. It is HIM they accusing of committing massive, anti-constitutional fraud, not YOU. Considering the personal nature of these racially charged, dog whistle attacks, you have no place telling him how he should feel or react. He has put up with this nonsense with a very thick skin for more than 2 years now. He owes nothing to your narrow minded definition of "office dignity".

[Avant Guardian]

42. Ya, we saw the same thing when Clinton was president

CNN was all over every crackpot accusation, 24/7 throughout the Clinton presidency. CNN isnt news, it is a tabloid 'infotainment' channel. Most cable news is.

Everything Obama does is my business because I have to live with the results of his actions. As a public official he is answerable to me.

You believe that responding to crackpot drama is within the 'office dignity' of the presidency? This isnt a game of limbo.

[FrenchieCat]

43. The difference between Clinton and Obama is

that Clinton DID have an affair,
and Obama WAS born in the United States.

Reconcile that shit.

[phleshdef]

44. He is your President, not your fucking slave.

He is answerable to us on policy, not on how he deals with personal attacks against him. He doesn't answer to anyone but himself in that regard. He didn't give up his freedom of speech when he became President.

He got tired of interviewers bringing it up. He ordered the damn thing to be made public and be done with it. Nothing in that decision has any effect over your life. None. You have no place telling him how he should deal with an attack aimed at the very core of his American identity.

Your arrogance is astounding. Your philosophy that the President is somehow answerable to you on matters of dealing with personal insults aimed at him or his family is just downright disturbing.

The good side of it all though is that he doesn't give 2 fucks what you think about it. He didn't answer to you or consult you on this. He handled it like he wanted to and there isn't anything you can actually do about it.

[Tarheel_Dem]

52. Damn, I wish there was rec button on your post!

:applause:

[Avant Guardian]

58. I reiterate my original point

It is below the office to respond to crackpots.

The crackpot floodgates are now open.

[boppers]

59. "He is your President, not your fucking slave."

Just had to repeat it.

[DCBob]

53. That may have been true before but when more than half of all Repubs believed this crackpot story..

and the crackpot media reports it as a headline almost every day, then its time to deal with it.

[Avant Guardian]

66. Half of repubs believe every crackpot story

Half of repubs still believe the story now. Half of republicans are idiots.

[creeksneakers2]

21. I strongly disagree

We are returning to the Bill Clinton strategy that allowed Republicans to make up any accusation, no matter how ridiculous, with no evidence at all, and required the president to endlessly try to prove his innocence to the GOP's unobtainable satisfaction. The media becomes obsessed with witch hunts. There are already demands for school records, baptismal certificates, and about 20 other things.

Obama has done some stupid things but this tops them all. He'll never get off defense until he admits this was a stupid thing to do.

[phleshdef]

24. Obama knows how to handle these sorts of things better than you.

Can your damn arrogance. Obama was dealing with these personal attack memes since he started running. And he has handled them his way and his way has turned out to work out every single time. He doesn't need to "admit" anything to you or anyone else. He is better at this than you are. You are either just too arrogant or too stubborn to admit it.

[creeksneakers2]

56. Personal response with no substance

Is it arrogant to offer an opinion on a website provided to allow people to post their opinions?

Obama changed the way he responded to birthers. I agree that what he was doing before worked. Why did he change it?

I never said Obama had to admit anything to me. I have no idea where that came from. He obviously feels he has some need to respond to birthers.

I agree Obama is better at politics than I am. After all, he's president. Now, that shows you are wrong when you say I am too arrogant or stuborn to admit it. Will you admit you were wrong about this, or are you too arrogant or stubborn?

No matter how smart someone his, he still will occasionally make a mistake. Sometimes someone who is less gifted is able to see the mistake because the watcher has a different perspective. Perhaps I'm wrong. I don't see how offering my take in any way implies I think I'm smarter than Obama.

[boppers]

60. "Obama has done some stupid things but this tops them all."

"I don't see how offering my take in any way implies I think I'm smarter than Obama."

See that? Ok.

HTH.

[creeksneakers2]

61. It says he did stupid things

It doesn't say he's stupid. Those are two different things.

[politicasista]

57. +1 n/t

[ReggieVeggie]

62. REALLY?!?! Why did he let it fester for so many years?

He could have made this a non-issue long ago. Now, s per his usual, he reacts. There's a book out so now he has to release his birth certificate. He makes really bad decisions.

[phleshdef]

64. Because he has a real job to do. Get off his nuts.

[ReggieVeggie]

69. hahaha

Apparently his "real job" included releasing his real birth certificate to placate right-wingers

[phleshdef]

70. It includes doing more important shit in a week than what you'll likely do your entire life.

You people that get into these petty, ad hominem attacks like this are just as much a part of the right wing attack machine as the actual right wing is, regardless of what you claim as ideology. You have no room to speak when it comes to "placating right wingers". Your judgemental, arrogant, low brow nonsense placates their cause.

Giving this President shit over a policy disagreement is one thing. Joining in with the other mental midgets to beat on him over the way he handled this personal attack on his core American identity is way beneath any serious, well thought out political disagreements.

[ReggieVeggie]

71. he handled it badly

just accept that

[phleshdef]

72. In other words, you got nothing but a mouth to run.

Thats what I thought.

[ReggieVeggie]

73. as do you

if he released this long ago, there would be no controversy

[phleshdef]

74. Yea, you're loud and clear. That uppity SOB should have shown his papers ages ago.

Its obvious where you are coming from on this.

[ReggieVeggie]

75. obvious to you, maybe

The controversy started years ago. If he had made up his mind not to worry about it, then why release the birth certificate now? Why not just tell em to go screw themselves? If he was going to release it, it should have been way back in the day.

[ProSense]

28. So

"We are returning to the Bill Clinton strategy that allowed Republicans to make up any accusation, no matter how ridiculous, with no evidence at all, and required the president to endlessly try to prove his innocence to the GOP's unobtainable satisfaction. "

...releasing the information is what caused them to "make up any accusation"?

What about the Swift Liars: Was it Kerry's fault they made up the lies? Was it his fault that the media ran with them? Was it his fault that the none of his efforts to counter them got coverage? Should he have ignored them? Should he have done more?

"Obama has done some stupid things but this tops them all. He'll never get off defense until he admits this was a stupid thing to do."

Well, that clarifies where this criticism is coming from.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[creeksneakers2]

54. Releasing information encourages them to make accusations

Because they know they can get a response and blow up controversies. Obama said today he released the certificate because he wanted to erase the issue and get the press to concentrate on more important matters. The right wing can create uproars just by snapping their fingers. That's even more true now that the wingnuts feel empowered by being able to force Obama to do something. So when the wingnuts stir up the next uproar, the press will ask why Obama doesn't respond and put the matter to rest.(they pretend its possible to settle accusations) That will put pressure on Obama to keep responding and the whole thing will feed on itself.

This type of thing dominated the Clinton presidency. I've followed the right wing closely since 1990 and I'm not merely speculating. I'm basing my prediction on their past behavior and the way things have always gone before.

I'm don't how we got onto John Kerry but his faults and faulty strategy contributed to the swift boat debacle.

John Kerry was a gutless politician. He started out being afraid that the Republicans would call him weak on defense. The Republicans pushed a distortion about Kerry voting against every major weapons system. Kerry never responded directly. Slate Magazine finally did about a month after the charge gained and kept wide circulation.

Kerry could have stood his ground and pointed out that since we haven't been taken over, and neither have any of our allies, that every single defense program killed by the Democrats is now money in the bank that would have been wasted on threats that turned out to have not existed. I would love to see the Republicans explain now why we needed the MX missile.

Instead, Kerry took the sissy way out and tried use his war record to create the appearance that he wasn't weak. In a year when the primary issue should have been Iraq, Kerry talked endlessly at Vietnam. That made him look silly.

So, if Kerry hadn't spent all that time on Vietnam, it wouldn't have been an issue and wouldn't have attracted so much attention to the swift boat liars.

Once it started, Kerry did some good things about the swift boat liars. His big mistake was demanding that George Bush make the liars stop. That make Kerry look like a real pussy. It looked like he was asking Bush to defend him because he was incapable of defending himself. Did anybody actually expect Bush to defend Kerry?

I don't know what conclusions you are drawing about me or why based one line. I'm generally an Obama supporter and defend him here often from the far lefties.

I was among a minority here who were complaining in 2004 that Kerry needed to get a spine, and quickly. We encouraged people to E-mail the campaign. Many people did. When that started Kerry was at 42%. At first, Kerry saw the E-mails not as possible valid suggestions but instead as something else to be afraid of. Kerry initially responded by trying to make himself look tough with press releases like, Showdown at the OK corral with Bush over Fannie Mae. It didn't work. So Kerry started really fighting back. He won three debates and improved his final showing to 48%. The postmortems reached a consensus that Kerry lost because of his gutlessness & the public's awareness of it.What came at the end was too little too late.

George Bush won 20% of the vote based on his handling of terrorism. Kerry knew that Bush called off attacks on the number two proclaimed terrorist, Zaqwari of Iraq. Had Kerry pressed the issue, we could have run endless ads of Zaqwari cutting off the head of an American with script that Bush called offattacks on Zaqwari that would have very likely killed him. I have no idea why Kerry ignored this issue. If he'd pressed it, he would have won.

[politicasista]

55. He isn't a "gutless" Senator

or a "gutless" public servant.


You sound like the media, only throwing rocks from the sidelines. :rofl:


Poo-poo the fact that he did say something, but he didn't strangle Bush! He also gave a response, but the media buried it. That still falls on deaf ears for some, but at least Senator Kerry keeps working for progress and helping Democrats even while he continues to be disrespected by some Democrats, liberals and others alike.

Yep. Blaming only Kerry works for some. Obama did the right thing here, but it won't stop people from tearing him down or tearing Kerry down to praise him. Who needs Republicans when we do their work for them?

The media lies about Obama all the time, but when the lie about Kerry, it must be true cause people here eat it up like it's chocolate!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

33. I think that the difference is that Bill Clinton was proven to have lied

(did not have sex, blah, blah, blah). So if he lied about that, what else did he lie about perpetuated further scrutiny.

But, Obama was proven today to not be a liar...unless you suspend disbelief

[creeksneakers2]

50. Monica Lewinsky was very late in the game

Before that there were endless investigations of insane accusations like Clinton murdered his lawyer. There were dozens of major "scandals" that weren't scandals at all. Something as silly as somebody sending over the wrong FBI records to the guard shack pass system ended up in 6 year independent counsel investigation complete with the first lady being called before the grand jury.

I followed the whole thing and it was truly amazing. The press ate it all up and did everything possible to help the Republicans.

Obama offered proof to rational people that he was born in Hawaii. He'd done that years ago. This will not be the last accusation. Obama will be called a liar endlessly now.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/04/27/trump_to_obama_now_release_your_college_records.html

[msanthrope]

34. "It's the Independents, stupid."

It's not just a call-out to the media...it's a call out to every single Independent.

Do the Independents really want to be allies with Medicare-cutting, COLB-waving, Teabaggers???

Not so much....

Fomenting internecine warfare in the GOP...Priceless.

[grahamhgreen]

45. Agreed! Now we should press for Trumps tax returns.

"Potential Republican presidential candidate and birther Donald Trump accused ABC’s George Stephanopoulos of being “co-opted” by President Barack Obama because the ABC host dared to say that the president’s certificate of live birth was a legal document.

Trump also laid out the condition for releasing his tax returns.

“Maybe I’m going to do the tax returns when Obama does his birth certificate,” Trump said. “I’d love to give my tax returns. I may tie my tax returns into Obama’s birth certificate.”"

[Dr Fate]

49. We should press for a "Dan Rather" style firing of Hannity, etc. as well. n/t

n/t

[On the Road]

46. I Trust Obama's Judgment

But it would have been really sweet if he could have waited until Trump rode this stupid line to the nomination and then dropped the bomb when the public was paying full attention. Would have been a complete wipeout.

[Dr Fate]

48. I agree. Kicked, recced, etc. Telling the truth and sticking to it is never a bad move. n/t

n/t

[donheld]

51. Now they're attacking his Social Security Number

Is that even public knowledge?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

65. I'm glad---makes it much easier to respond to the jerk-offs

You gotta refute lies---since we (the truth tellers) have no support from Flying Monkeys Media, it's hard to have to explain and back up anything we want to say. Often impossible.

It's nice to think that we can just let the jerk offs thrash about in their pigsties, while we turn our cheeks, but that's not completely true. Because the Propaganda Machine is so ubiquitous, we MUST respond. We MUST cut off the lies.

With this response to the nimrods, it is now MUCH easier for the REST OF US to respond.

I hardly even have to SAY anything, I can basically just do this: " :eyes: "