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Historians are going to look back, and see this as one of the great restorative/reform presidencies

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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 06:05 PM
Original message
Historians are going to look back, and see this as one of the great restorative/reform presidencies
Listening to the talking heads, run in a new circle this week (Have you noticed, that every week or two it is a new dire crisis with no hope).. It hit me what an amazing restorative presidency this has become.

If the President has been hit with one major crisis.. I think I could join in with those who want an all out push for everything NOW.

But President Obama, like President Roosevelt.. was hit with a major economic crisis and war. In Obamas case, it was the two at the same time.

Add to that, a climate crisis, DADT, DOMA, declining markets.. upsurging deficits.. and all needing to be addressed in some form or another at the same time.

Also, our loss of status on the world stage and the need to rebuild those alliances.

Some call it change only, I think it is restorative, and reformative ....

restorative: tending to revive or renew health, spirits, etc.

reformative : to put or change into an improved form or condition b : to amend or improve by change of form or removal of faults or abuses


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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Excellent post!
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Could you elaborate more on your thoughts.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Nope.
The Chester Alan Arthur II Age
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. You mean people really respected Arthur at the end of his Presidency
and were very leery of him at the beginning.. had to go re read that..
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hope so, and rec'd - but he has to take these clowns on - head on, and hard.
He backs off too much. FDR relished the fight, and took on his enemies with relish and alacrity. Obama is too cool. Time to stand up and fight. FDR, Truman, Humphrey, LBJ, Bobby - say what you will, they were all fighters, and not intimidated. Need more of that from Obama, and NOW would be a good time to start.

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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Obama is a long distance race horse.
Be sure he's got fire in him, and be sure he knows when to use it and not abuse it. We ain't seen nothing yet, I'm convinced he's got bully in him and is waiting for the opportune time to use it well.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. All of his great and populist achievements are still ahead of him...
...and always will be.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. heheh.
well I remember him during the primaries thinking who the heck is this quiet guy with nothing of substance to say? (I didn't know him at all and was later I heard his speech he did at the convention in earlish 2000s) I think he was deliberately fading in the background until the right time to step forward.

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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-08-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. It's time.
This permanent campaigning and favor-currying is NOT leadership.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. He's a conciliator
not a partisan. Some will argue that is what the times call for, but regardless, the two approaches to running the executive branch have historically yielded wildly different results.
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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. "You underestimate my husband at your peril" - Michelle Obama
Don't think just because you don't SEE him fighting that he's NOT fighting.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. While I hope that he is ultimately quite successful
the jury is still out. And to compare the period leading up to WWII with our involvement in Iraq/Afghanistan is just plain old ridiculous.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I can see the similarities of 9/11 to Pearl Harbor........
and the similarities of America Fighting a two front war Japan/German to our fighting Iraq/Afghanistan, although WWII had the advantage of being fought at a time when a rational competent President was at the helm from the beginning, while we've had 8 years of fucked up Bush who started both of his wars, and mishandled both to a point of extreme, and then some. So, I'm thinking Obama will have an even tougher time with the wars he inherited, unlike FDR who didn't have someone passing them off to him after they had been clearly botched.

I also see great similarities of the Wall Street Crash of 1929 and the Wall Street Crash of 2008,
compared to any other period in history...sure currently it isn't the extreme that the Depression was, but we can all thank goodness for that, considering that we are in the 21st century.

I don't find the comparison at all laughable...... :shrug:
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. the entire Western world was involved in WWII
Hitler had conquered a number of previously independent nations by the time we got involved (due to Pearl Harbor) and the entire nation subsequently became consumed by the all out war effort.

Saddam Hussein was a two bit dictator who had threatened our then President's daddy and Osama Bin Laden was/is a terrorist. And we fought both conflicts with volunteer armies.

9/11 was terrible and tragic, but the wars that followed it were nothing remotely comparable to WW II. They're not even comparable to Vietnam.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Comparable doesn't mean ALL is exactly the same. You have moved the goalpost.
Edited on Sun Dec-06-09 08:49 PM by FrenchieCat
this is what you said initially:
to compare the period leading up to WWII with our involvement in Iraq/Afghanistan...

since we are already dealing with two separate century,
the differences certainly are noted....
and who is comparing Hussein or Bin Laden to Hitler, and why, I don't know?

I'm comparing the fact that the United States was attacked on its soil,
which is what brought on both our leading an armed conflict.....
and if you put yourself back on 9/12, that occurrence was as big as Pearl Habor.
But of course there are many difference....like like Japan being a country,
while AlQeada is not....

But still, considering that Bush and FDR had totally different styles (one was dumb and crazy, while one was not), the mess handed to Obama is probably the biggest mess since FDR's own situation.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. the OP
made note of some of the similarities she saw between what FDR and Obama faced in office, with "war" being one of the parallels she employs.

My point is that the "wars" couldn't be more different, thus, imho, it's not much of a historical analogy.

As you note, in these two current "wars," we, or an ally of ours, were never even attacked by a sovereign nation. Plus, Obama inherited both conflicts, Roosevelt did not.

Perhaps a slightly closer comparison is with Eisenhower and Korea. Eisenhower, like Obama, inherited a very unpopular war which, in the campaign, he had promised to end.

Even that, however, is a stretch, since North Korea had been the aggressor. In Iraq and Afghanistan, we are the aggressors.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. War is war, and if they aren't, then certainly a war with an enemy who
wears a uniform and drive big planes or tanks, or as the saying goes, conventional warfare, may actually be easier to fight. Here we are with two unconventional wars, which I believe may be near impossible to "win".

As for who the aggressor is, Al Qaeda was the aggressor in one of those wars, and they were being hosted by Afghanistan, which had no central government at the time.......but you can call us the aggressors in both wars if you want to, if you are mushing them together and saying that 9/11 just wasn't as much of a agression as Pearl Habor was......that is, in in your opinion, 4 hijacked planes, 2 giant building, the pentagon, and nearly 3,000 dead aren't considered agression to you...then ok. :shrug:
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Man, so naff, so very naff

As usual, the tactics you use while discussing this blood and death issue are telling about your level of connection to the realities of war. The very idea of this 'if that's not aggression to you' plus an emoticon is an appropriate manner of discourse for this subject manner betrays a callous way of thinking that is disturbing, chilling and simply horrid. Word games and snark over the havoc of war. Only one from a family that never goes to war would speak of it so.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
29. Right...
Edited on Mon Dec-07-09 06:36 AM by AllentownJake
The elites in the country were scared for 30 seconds after 9-11 and than used it as an excuse to do horrible things. In 1941, FDR asked Americans to sacrifice and conserve, in 2001 Bush asked them to take on debt and shop. In 2009 Obama called for no sacrifice from ordinary Americans to address the threat. Since the elites are unwilling to disturb commerce which they make money on, I can easily conclude that the threat posed by 9-11 actions can not be compared to the attack by the Empire of Japan and the declaration of war on us by Germany, but nice spin.

FDR responded to the banking crisis of 1933 by focusing all of his attention on it. FDR's greatness is defined by his response to a crisis that was brewing and unfolding while he took office. Not the October 1929 stock market crash. To be fair there were no mechanisms in place to deal with the situation and he regulated the banks at the same time he bailed them out. He spent most of his first term working to ensure another crisis didn't occur again. President Obama decided to focus on Health Care. So either the President misjudged the 2008 market crash and the issues in banking, or the issue isn't as big as it is made out to be.

I also want to add, that FDR spent a considerable amount of time on organized labor. An investment that built the middle class that President Obama says he wants to save.

The market crash was the starting gun of the depression, it wasn't the final shot. Of course, we always focus on the starting shot.

The passing off argument is about the only thing you can say, but you cannot make a case of the greatness of FDR to this President nor the crisis they faced. Not till 2016 anyway.

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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Agreed, one day Obama is Lincoln, one day he's FDR
In the election he was "not Bush". When is he going to define his Presidency himself and make it his own?
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. You don't restore things by making excuses and blaming your predecessor
Obama should prosecute Bush/Cheney.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
14. But it's only been ten months.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. I can only speak
for myself and those who have told me that he's certainly restored our spirits! :D
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
16. rec'd n/t
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. Kick and Rec and just one minor observation: This OP is Flamebait.
This OP, the subject line and the message body, would be Flamebait on Free Republic and other sites.

"Flame", meaning nasty replies, and "Bait", meaning qualities in the post that would attract such nasty replies.

As I read some of the replies, I shake my head at the absurdity that commentary supportive and congratulatory of our Democratically and Fairly elected President, himself a Democrat, would attract such bitter rebuttal, sarcasm, and nastiness.

:shrug:

Peacetrain, keep postin' that Flamebait, baby!

:applause:

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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. Bullshit! History will judge this Administration as the last nail in the coffin named "Fascism"
It's going to get real ugly for Americans since we gave our tax dollars to the upper 1%.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #19
31. For once we agree! Obama has indeed put the last nail in the fascism of the Bush regime!
He has ended torture, ended warrantless wiretapping, stopped extraordinary rendition, and restored the constitution.

The Obama administration has indeed ended and buried the growing trend toward fascism under George W. Bush.

I just think, however, you didn't mean it the way it came out.
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BakedAtAMileHigh Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. oh yeah, right
Warrantless wiretapping?
Rendition?
Accountability for Torture?


Where? Where? Where?

Seriously, your sloganeering and cheerleading is a bit sad.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Do you read the news?
The administration has ended warrantless wiretapping, extraordinary rendition and torture.

I could post links, but somehow I doubt that any facts would penetrate your world view.

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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. I agree.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 04:44 AM
Response to Original message
25. KnR, Peacetrain. Right man at the right time. nt
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ProgressOnTheMove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
26. He is turning the ship around and big old ship that it is it takes time, but he will get there.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
27. I think somewhere between he is worse than Bush and he is the new FDR is the truth
Honestly, I don't see that right now, but hey if you do, hope you don't end up disappointed.

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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
28. yes, the insurance racket has been "reformed" to be even more profitable,
and taxpayer dollars have been "restored" to their rightful owners, the lords of Wall St. and the corporate war profiteers, to whom we are all beholden as serfs.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
30. Kick NT
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
35. Uh...
:wow:
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-08-09 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
37. Restorative of the Bush doctrine, Bush staff and Bush policies.
Yup. Restorative in those aspects.
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jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-08-09 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Yes +1
treading water and maintaining the status quo.
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RepublicanElephant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-08-09 04:22 AM
Response to Original message
39. k&r nt
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