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Mosque-gate is the greatest threat to Obama since Wright-gate.

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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:05 AM
Original message
Mosque-gate is the greatest threat to Obama since Wright-gate.
When Wright-gate blew up, Obama gave the well-received, favorably-reviewed Philadelphia speech. But that's not what ended it: What ended it is that Wright was prevailed upon to shut the fuck up. Only once he did so could Obama recover.

And now we face Mosque-gate -- this gate precipitated by the fact that Obama and his people for some reason made the decision to have him give a speech to a Muslim dinner at the White House that would open up this can of worms. Again, a well-recieved speech. But the only thing that will end this -- and I think this is what will happen, perhaps sooner rather than later -- a COMPROMISE will be found -- Obama, Bloomberg, etc. will find some NYC real estate tycoon with a nice open lot ready for building who will be prevailed upon to exchange it for the "Park51" property, then Obama will pick up the phone to the Park51/Cordoba House leadership and use the schmoozing power of the Presidency to convince them to make the exchange.

This is what will happen. Sooner, we should hope, rather than later. If not, God help us in the midterms.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think your proposal would be the best way
to calm this tempest-in-a-teapot
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks. I've got caught up in this fight here, but I think this will be the solution --
Dean had it right -- it will be about COMPROMISE.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
39. No, it will be about the educating the ignorant who oppose it.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
3.  the solution is to treat this Sufi-Muslim Community Center the same as if it was Anglican or
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 03:28 AM by Douglas Carpenter
Jewish or Buddhist or Hindu or atheist or Pentecostal Holiness or whatever.

Caving into bigotry and treating Muslims different than other Americans might seem politically expedient. But what about all the other campaigns against mosques and anti-Muslim hysteria being whipped up by right-wing groups and the crazy wing of fundamentalist Christianity all across the country? Will they be satisfied? I think not!

Bigotry is defeated by denouncing it forcefully and unapologetically for the hateful unAmerican crap that it is. Let the GOP be the bold and proud party of hate and intolerance. Let the Democratic Party be the party that believes in liberty and justice for all. I frankly think, in spite of what some naysayers would claim, liberty and justice for all are winning themes.

America either stands for freedom of religion or it doesn't. America either treats all of its citizens and all of its communities equally or it doesn't. God help us if perceived short-term political expediency means the Democratic Party becomes the other party that says it doesn't.

.



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. again you are back to the same bigoted bulllshit of blaiming all Muslims for what a few did
you are engaging in the crassest form of preaching hate and bigotry. In this case a group of peaceful and moderate Sufi Muslims for what a group from Al Qaida did.




Muslim Prayers and Renewal Near Ground Zero


By RALPH BLUMENTHAL and SHARAF MOWJOOD
Published: December 8, 2009


snip:

As a Sufi, Imam Feisal follows a path of Islam focused more on spiritual wisdom than on strict ritual, and as a bridge builder, he is sometimes focused more on cultivating relations with those outside his faith than within it.

snip:

Those who have worked with him say if anyone could pull off what many regard to be a delicate project, it would be Imam Feisal, whom they described as having built a career preaching tolerance and interfaith understanding.

He subscribes to my credo: Live and let live, said Rabbi Arthur Schneier, spiritual leader of Park East Synagogue on East 67th Street.

snip:

The mayors director of the Office of Immigrant Affairs, Fatima Shama, went further. We as New York Muslims have as much of a commitment to rebuilding New York as anybody, Ms. Shama said. Imam Feisals wife, Daisy Khan, serves on an advisory team for the National September 11 Memorial and Museum, and Lynn Rasic, a spokeswoman for the memorial, said, The idea of a cultural center that strengthens ties between Muslims and people of all faiths and backgrounds is positive.


snip:

Building so close is owning the tragedy. Its a way of saying: This is something done by people who call themselves Muslims. We want to be here to repair the breach, as the Bible says.

The F.B.I. said Imam Feisal had helped agents reach out to the Muslim population after Sept. 11. Weve had positive interactions with him in the past, said an agency spokesman, Richard Kolk. Alice Hoagland of Las Gatos, Calif., whose son, Mark Bingham, was killed in the hijacked plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, said, Its quite a bold step buying a piece of land adjacent to ground zero, but she said she considered plans for the site a noble effort.

snip:

Joy Levitt, executive director of the Jewish Community Center, said the group would be proud to be a model for Imam Feisal at ground zero. For the J.C.C. to have partners in the Muslim community that share our vision of pluralism and tolerance would be great, she said.

Mr. El-Gamal agreed. What happened that day, he said, was not Islam.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/nyregion/09mosque.htm...






link to the cordoba intiative:

http://www.cordobainitiative.org /

link to Imam Feisal Press Conference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfIPO7CVflA


/

Mayor Michael Bloomberg: 'Sad Day For America' If Ground Zero Mosque Plan Is Killed



Mayor Michael Bloomberg: 'Sad Day For America' If Ground Zero Mosque Plan Is Killed





NEW YORK New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg says it would be "a sad day for America" if opponents successfully kill plans for a mosque proposed near the World Trade Center site.

Bloomberg has been among a few outspoken elected officials supporting the plans for an Islamic center and mosque two blocks from ground zero.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/16/bloomberg-sad-...



"Let us not forget that Muslims were among those murdered on 9/11 and that our Muslim neighbors grieved with us as New Yorkers and as Americans. We would betray our values and play into our enemies' hands if we were to treat Muslims differently than anyone else. In fact, to cave to popular sentiment would be to hand a victory to the terrorists and we should not stand for that." Mayor Michael Bloomberg


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. your message of hate and intollerance is what is making people cry...
you don't care about the truth you only want to preach hate and intolerance
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
26. Preach? I'm an atheist. And a minority female. Lol.
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 04:41 AM by dkf
I live in multiracial multi religious Hawaii. Here nobody is a majority so we don't do much of this you hate my Group stuff. I don't go by race creed or religion. I make judgements based on actions and who started the thing.

The Asian way is very opposite of being in your face. We don't force ourselves on others, just put our heads down and work at it.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Right, and life was wonderful during the Cultural Revolution. You generalization are nonsense
ALL demographics have had their issues, including Asians. There are so many historical examples to contradict your generalization

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Not in my lifetime.
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 05:14 AM by dkf
I think because our community lays low we don't antagonize on purpose and that keeps us from getting collective grief from some fools bright ideas.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
62. Well fuck all. You don't even live in NYC? I thought you had some close
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 06:22 PM by DevonRex
connection to it or something and gave you some slack. But geez.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Were all Nazis Catholics? Certainly not. Did many Christians die at Auschwitz as well? Sure --
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 03:55 AM by smalll
But Auschwitz, appropriately, is most associated with the JEWISH Holocaust -- so when Jewish people and their allies complained about the nunnery there, John Paul II didn't quibble -- he moved it.

Why are people - like you - so AFRAID to ask Muslim-Americans to extend the same kind of sensitivity, hmmm? Who's got the real "Islamophobia" here? :think:
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. you know perfectly well where this building is located and you know perfectly
well what kind of street it is on - full of strip clubs, gentleman's clubs, off-track betting and all kinds of other things - this whole sensitivity nonsense is a patent hoax and you know it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. again you are back to the same hateful bigoted crap of blaming a group of peaceful
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 04:09 AM by Douglas Carpenter
Sufi Muslims and American Muslims for what 19 terrorist did nine years ago.

This is the same tactic used to justify bigotry against Jews, blacks gays and every other marginalized group

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. and you are a bigot against all Muslims /nt
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #17
33. If we don't stop the hysteria soon, bin Laden will score one of his biggest propaganda victories yet


If we don't stop the hysteria soon, bin Laden will score one of his biggest propaganda victories yet

By Gene Lyons

snip:

Regardless of how hard they try to disguise it, if only from themselves, those who would forbid the project express an essentially tribal view of Americanism specifically repudiated by the U.S. Constitution. "Is there any reason to oppose the mosque that isn't bigoted, or demagogic, or unconstitutional?" asks Michael Kinsley. "None that I've heard or read. "Make that two of us. Regardless of motive, its all about "prohibiting the free exercise" of somebody elses religion. The End.

Actually, Id go further. Are there any arguments against the project that dont also violate the elementary distinction between "some vs. all" we were all supposed to learn in sixth grade? Nonillegal codemakeRemote('duboard.php?az=html_table')e that Ive seen. Broadly speaking, the loftier the rhetoric the more craven the appeal to primitive concepts like the collective guilt of the worlds 1.4 billion Muslims for 9/11, a deranged act of mass murder committed by a tiny heretical sect.

snip:

Walking the neighborhood, a New York Daily News reporter recently took note of the Pussycat Lounge, a strip joint two blocks from ground zero, and the Thunder Lingerie and Peep Show. Also Off Track Betting facilities, along with "17 pizza shops, 18 bank branches, 11 bars, 10 shoe stores and 17 separate salons" offering whats euphemistically called "bikini waxing." Evidently, not everybody understood it was all sacred ground until Republicans decreed it.

Regardless, now that the issues joined, President Obamas stuck with it. Insulting our Muslim allies and giving Osama bin Laden a huge propaganda victory by making the struggle against terrorism appear to be a war against Islam -- exactly as he claims -- would be a strategic disaster.


read the full article on salon.com:

http://www.salon.com/news/ground_zero_mosque/index.html...

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. and why are people - like you - so anxious to discriminate. Your view of America
is NOT America

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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #12
43. The Catholic Church at the highest levels actively encouraged and dangled for the Nazis
To such a point that they have apologized for their part played.

Now you are conflating the actions of the few with a top down organized complicity.
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #43
71. Bullshit
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #71
78. Why did they apologize then? They feed the scourge.
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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
67. You do.
The mere fact that you are associating Muslim-Americans with Al Qaeda and demanding they show some kind of sensitivity for an act that they are completely innocent of and unrelated to demonstrates a clear case of Islamophobia.

What possible reason do they have to take it upon themselves to extend sensitivity for a crime they had absolutely nothing to do with? Because they look like Al Qaeda members? Because they practice a religion that billions of people practice and Al Qaeda claimed they were practicing?

Should all male Catholics take responsibility for the Priest who molested children? Should we make all Catholic male teachers stop teaching in public schools to show sensitivity to the victims? Your argument is ridiculous on its face and smacks of xenophobia.

How about you showing some sensitivity to Muslim-Americans in New York by feeling their pain as much as the pain of the apparently "real" 911 victims. Your argument is disgusting and you haven't got a clue about sensitivity. Muslim-Americans died in 911. They live in the neighborhood. They need services and support just like everyone else. They owe no one anything and they deserve for everyone to leave them the hell alone.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. bullshit. How dare you compare these Americans to the assholes who did 9/11
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 04:08 AM by still_one
There is a reason why Feingold, Franken, and Bloomberg feel strongly on this issue, as do I, because as Jews we have been through similar bigoted nonesense

This is a product of the repuke party, and the MSM trying to misrepresent the facts

gee, now the polls say 20% of the populous believe Obama is a Muslim. Why would THEY even present that question? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim? What is the purpose, to misinform?

and since you are equating all Muslims with terrorists, I would assume that logic would justify that since I am Jewish, and I am also responsible for crucifying Jesus? That was the logic they used when I was growing up. I was also told as a child by a babysiter I had that I would go to hell because I was Jewish.





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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. You ARE going to hell
yer a liberal Dem aren't ya?...........I'll save ya a seat. Want a loft seat or one closer to the fire?
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #30
47. I am much older now, not much wiser though /nt
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
27. The founders of this community center aren't Mohammed Atta either.
:eyes:
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Except this isn't where Americans stand.
That billionaire better emerge soon or we are toast. We are self righteously calling a significant majority of Americans hateful bigots. That is sooooo not a winning strategy.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. So fuck the rights of Muslims, we've got an election to win!
Man. You "Progressives" are getting increasingly disgusting.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. As some like to say, "spot on" -- sometimes, we NEED a little help from Captain Obvious --
Thank you! "Faster than the speed of stupid" doesn't seem too cool -- until you realize how much political stupidity is out there, even amongst otherwise very intelligent people.

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
24. I guess Feingold, and Franken are stupid also by your definition
I guess by your definition Feingold was stupid for voting AGAINST invading Iraq based on a lie. I guess Feingold was also stupid by voting against the patriot act

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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. The American people have been lied to by the media just like they were with the war in Iraq
they have been misinformed and mislead by a campaign of lies, hate, ignorance and bigotry - just like when 70% of Americans thought Saddam Hussein was behind September 11.



How the "ground zero mosque" fear mongering began

By Justin Elliott

To a remarkable extent, a Salon review of the origins of the story found, the controversy was kicked up and driven by Pamela Geller, a right-wing, viciously anti-Muslim, conspiracy-mongering blogger, whose sinister portrayal of the project was embraced by Rupert Murdoch's New York Post.

A group of progressive Muslim-Americans plans to build an Islamic community center two and a half blocks from ground zero in lower Manhattan. They have had a mosque in the same neighborhood for many years. There's another mosque two blocks away from the site. City officials support the project. Muslims have been praying at the Pentagon, the other building hit on Sept. 11, for many years.

In short, there is no good reason that the Cordoba House project should have been a major national news story, let alone controversy. And yet it has become just that, dominating the political conversation for weeks and prompting such a backlash that, according to a new poll, nearly 7 in 10 Americans now say they oppose the project. How did the Cordoba House become so toxic, so fast?



Here's a timeline of how it all happened:


Dec. 8, 2009: The Times publishes a lengthy front-page look at the Cordoba project. "We want to push back against the extremists," Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the lead organizer, is quoted as saying. Two Jewish leaders and two city officials, including the mayor's office, say they support the idea, as does the mother of a man killed on 9/11. An FBI spokesman says the imam has worked with the bureau. Besides a few third-tier right-wing blogs, including Pamela Geller's Atlas Shrugs site, no one much notices the Times story.

Dec. 21, 2009: Conservative media personality Laura Ingraham interviews Abdul Rauf's wife, Daisy Khan, while guest-hosting "The O'Reilly Factor" on Fox. In hindsight, the segment is remarkable for its cordiality. "I can't find many people who really have a problem with it," Ingraham says of the Cordoba project, adding at the end of the interview, "I like what you're trying to do."



http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/16/...




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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Well educate all the families let them all change their minds and come out in support
Then everything will be fine right? Ala Howard Dean.

If they got a significant majority of the families to sign on I would change my mind.

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. So if there was a poll and the "majority" said all American Muslims should be confined to a certain
area, that would be ok with you

After all, we have an election to win, and we don't want to offend the "majority"

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. What a silly example. This isn't about making them do anything through the legal system...
It's about asking them to show a little consideration. But it's just a request.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #29
42. Have you ever seen Gentleman's Agreement?
It is an excellent 1940s movie that was on based on the fact that some extremely affluent communities in CT prevented Jews from buying homes there. I guess they too thought there area was "sacred ground". (Now, I know this is a MOVIE, not real life - but it is well documented that this was the case. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentleman%27s_Agreement

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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #29
46. Consideration, for what? For being American citizens? /nt
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. and those majority in the fifties didn't like African Americans or Jews
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 04:20 AM by still_one
Damn, they were the majority so why did those "Jews and African Americans" know their place

This has nothing to do with self-righteousness. Same crappy logic they used against ME growing up as a Jew, and against African Americans

The majority was wrong when they violated African Americans civil rights

The majority in nazi Germany was wrong with they threw Jews into the concentration camps

The majority in American was WRONG when they put Japanese Americans in internment camps, and confiscated their property during WWII

Don't feed me this crap about the majority to justify bigotry



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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
54. And where did the majority of Americans stand on civil rights and interracial marriage?
We lost the south permanently after the civil rights legislation but was it the right thing to do? You know the answer to that one.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
61. You're only upset because we're calling you on YOUR bigoted stance.
And that's what it is. If you don't want to treat this group like any other religious group building the same sort of facility, it's bigoted.

I don't coddle racists' feelings whether they're in the "heartland" or in NYC. They're using 9/11 as a fucking excuse. No dice.

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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
72. Yes, it's also not where "good" Germans stood in the 1930s, is it?
I'm not big on invoking Nazi analogies, but in this case it's appropriate.

Think about what you are saying. It does not matter where Americans stand. It matters where the constitution stands. And right now that is on very shaky grounds if the majority has their way.

Can you really accept that people, just by the virtue of their religion, should be so easily branded with a crime they had absolutely nothing to do with? Is whether or not the constitution is relevant now decided by popular demand? Are the sensitivities of some victims of crimes less important than other victims of crimes because they look like the perpetrators?

The idea that victims of 911 have to show more sensitivity to other victims of 911 just by the virtue of the religion they practice is ridiculous and does smack of bigotry. If to say so is self righteous, then so be it. But you might want to really examine why you think that Muslims, who were victims of 911 themselves, owe some special deference to other 911 victims. Christian 911 victims have a number of churches right across the street in which to pray and get support and solace. You would deprive Muslims of having that 2 blocks away for what reason?

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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
41. Correct ! BUT, there needs to be a solid NATIONAL education campaign on this issue. Too many people
are ignorant to the fact that this is cultural center and not a mosque, that it will include interfaith activities, that there is one already just 4 blocks away but it is not big enough, that it can not be seen from ground zero, etc. The good guys on this need to get out there and do a better job of getting the truth about it out.
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Jeneral2885 Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. He should have not said a word
or rather America should take a hard look at how Souteast Asian countries have maintained years of religious harmony.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. How do they?
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. This isn't Southeast Asia, this is America, and Southeast Asia, or Asia for that matter
are NOT the best example of religious harmony

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Jeneral2885 Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #23
51. SEAian countries have maintained religious tolerance
while portion of Americans are still racist and bigoted.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. sorry, but there have been religious wars in Asian countries also /nt
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
32. Oh bullshit.
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CBR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
34. What is with all the bigoted bullshit on DU these days?
Fear of the other and catering to the "hard working white person" prevails once again!!!!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
36. In two weeks no one will care.
You keep presenting this as some sort of enormous crisis, just like the media wants you to percieve it.


Keep up the trolling, it makes you look...small.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
37. I think as people become more EDUCATED about this project, tempers will cool down.
Too many people just don't know the whole story. They hear "MOSQUE AT GROUND ZERO" and have an emotional reaction. They don't know it is cultural center including interfaith activities. They don't know that a current facility is just four blocks away. They don't know that the proposed location can not be seen from ground zero. People are having a knee-jerk reaction to this. Get the public educated, and this WILL cool down. And, once the project is done and people see it for what it is, then they'll relax even more. ReSCUMS are just trying to play it as a wedge issue. Typical RePUKE tactic.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #37
45. So what if it were a mosque? It doesn't need sugar coating or softening
Its do you believe in America or no, not really?

This one is a give me, this is a building block issue but habeas corpus and due process can be looked the other way for.

For whatever reason we are having trouble with the essentials now and it its literally coming from what represents itself as both sides and the middle mostly from the 9/11 attack.

Well, I'm a 90% pre-9/11 mindset motherfucker with the 10% being not to give the bastards enough leash to slip out of eye shot regardless of what they have done and certainly irrespective of what they say.

There is no path to "strategic victory" by abandoning core principles because at the end victory is hollow and in name only. You have already betrayed the very best of what you once stood for.

The inconsistency is astounding! Many have totally flipped in priority from political to principal and vice versa here.

I'll stick with not blowing in the wind and being guided by the values I espouse in the unchallenged and easy times when it gets the long odds and the costs are high too.

Values are easy when there is no cost, no consequences for convictions or when yours were violated, the ones that are close to your heart.

We should be defending all of our rights quite literally to the death. Many times that was their cost and there is shame on pissing away and giving away such birthrights that can't really be expressed.

Read the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the amendments, and drill down on why they needed too be expressly spelled out. Get some gist of our human history.

This stuff is living, it was damn hard earned and not enough had been done yet. It sure as hell not time to give up our inheritance at any price, certainly not political calculation.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
38. I don't think this is going to be the biggest mid terms issue, and as people become more educated on
it, feelings will cool down. There needs to be a better education campaign on it.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
40. Nah
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
44. Anyone against the mosque should be kicked out of America
Edited on Fri Aug-20-10 08:59 AM by mkultra
Either you support religious freedom or you don't. Its in the constitution.
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
48. "Bigoted Wonder Twin powers ACTIVATE!"
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #48
66. OK. I'll bite. Who's Zan?
Glick, I know lots of them.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
49. You are quite the piece of work.
You would happily sell one of our most fundamental values as a country just to make sure Obama is kept politically "safe".

I really don't know what to say to that, except that -- as a humna being, a christian, an American, and a DUer -- you disgust me to my core.

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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. Yes, I second that.
Some of these poster's posts are bordering on condoning bigotry because it is politically expedient.
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namahage Donating Member (678 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #49
73. Oh, I highly doubt that Obama's political success is the OP's goal.
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
50. Lmao..you mean the fact that he actually respects the constitution?
This country is so chock full of idiots...and the christian fanatics should be looking at this with concern. Hello, religious freedom protects them, too. Unless they don't want it to?
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
52. Obama should not (and will not IMO) work to try to move the Islamic community center.
"Compromise"=not allowing to build the center where they WANT to build it. The building has been approved unanimously by those in NY who LIVE in NY. Obama spoke out, correctly, on the RIGHT to have the center built where it's PLANNED to be built.

Any "compromise" is a loss for freedom of religion as well as an "acknowledgment" that Muslim-Americans have something to feel guilty about (by being asked to "be sensitive" to those who died on 9/11 at the hands of TERRORISTS). Muslim-Americans died there on that day as well as non-Muslims. Nobody should ask them to compromise.

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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
55. Oh, So NOW You Want Obama To Act "Pragmatically"?
And for the record, if Obama did as you say and tried to negotiate a compromise, it wouldn't necessarily bother me, but he won't because he realizes that it's not his place as head of the GOVERNMENT to get involved in religious issues. I personally don't think he should either, but it really wouldn't bother me if he tried.

That being said, as a New Yorker and 9/11 survivor I am not offended by the building of this center and support their right to build it and I think everyone who's NOT a New Yorker should shut the fuck up about it.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
56. I don't think that "Mosque-gate" is any threat to Obama or the
Democrats. I do believe that those in the opposition will do everything possible to fan it up into some kind of real problem for the President. Your post might be assisting them in that regard.
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
57. The Mosque will be built as intended. The small-minded people will have to accept that.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
58. Like DADT or DOMA

DADT was a compromise with the "sensitivity" of those who didn't want gay service members.

DOMA was a compromise with the "sensitivity" of those who wanted to amend the Constitution to prohibit gay marriage.

Perhaps we can convince Muslims simply to not act Muslim in public, because some people find their religion offensive, and we should respect their sensitivities.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
59. "Wright-gate" turned into a big victory for Obama.
I know you hated that.

I would think you would have learned your lesson, but nope.
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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
63. I'm pretty sure he became President despite the 24/7 Wright-gate coverage.
The greatest threat right now is those who think basic constitutional rights are disposable if they don't impact you and might hurt your party's chance in the next election. It pathetic that you have such a problem with the President of the United States standing up for the constitution and for a group of people who are being unduly attacked by other so called political leaders in this country. How cowardly.

Curling up in a fetal position and wincing over our President standing up for the Muslim population is the worst thing the American people can do right now. This is a test of our democracy and you are failing big time. Obama, on the other hand, is not.
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GentryDixon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
64. So you are saying the President
cannot defend the Constitution if it ruffles the feathers of the fringe?

Nonsense.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
65. How about they get to keep the land they own and the bigots are told to shut up and like it?
THAT is the best solution.
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LAGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
68. There might be other ways to compromise besides moving the site.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
69. Fuck that noise
What a bunch of BULLSHIT.

This country is filled with nitwits and you're obviously one of them.
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-20-10 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. You hit the nail square on the head. n/t
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #69
80. + !!!!!
:spray:
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
74. why not let it sink (your thread)
how many more of these?
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
75. No it's not (nt)
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
76. Unintended Consequences
Edited on Sat Aug-21-10 10:08 AM by Steely_Dan
Unfortunately...
The longer this controversy continues, the more the bigoted RW will use it to their advantage.

A principled stance is admirable. Maybe this is an opportunity for the President.

-P
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
77. Oh Good Lord, get a grip.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
79. This is the first time I will say it - This "contraversy" makes me ashamed of America.
Edited on Sat Aug-21-10 12:03 PM by chrisa
Not only from the obnoxious, in-your-face bigoted rage of low-class people screaming at the top of their lungs crap like "You're the same people that attacked us on 9/11!", but from the MSM's complicity of passing these obnoxious talking points around like they should be acceptable.

Is this really any different from the bigotry shown to African-Americans of the past (and, at times, present)? Then, you have these spineless politicians quietly agreeing with the bigotry, or at times supporting it. Not speaking up allows the bigotry to continue. It's time to stop dehumanizing / demonizing Muslims and pretending that we're at war with Islam. These people had nothing to do with 9/11 in the same vein that I had nothing to do with Timothy McVeigh's cowardly acts.

Thank You President Obama, for standing up for the Constitution and for New York City's Muslims, in the face of hatred and disgusting populist rage fanned by the Tea Party and Fox News talking points. :) :headbang:
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
81. Aside from the bigotry and cowardly objectives...
The thing that amuses me about this OP is the line about a 'nice open lot ready for building' in Manhattan, and a quick swap being made all even like, with a real estate tycoon. Who apparently will be willing to take a bad deal for the good of others, in the tradition of NY real estate developers...a nice open lot. As if it were Kingman, Arizona.
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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
82. Human stupidity is the greatest threat
to President Obama and our nation.

If "the people" vote the GoP back into majorities they get precisely what they deserve.

If they do that and give us a Republican President in 2012, I might just swear off politics.
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