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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:11 AM
Original message
Manufacturing areas lead surprise job comeback
Edited on Sun Dec-06-09 11:23 AM by ClarkUSA
With job losses at their lowest level in almost two years and national unemployment dropping 0.2% to 10%, here's another spot of good news that is a nice surprise:

CONOVER, N.C. As record numbers of orders flow through Legacy Furniture Group's manufacturing plant, workers toil between towers of piled foam and incomplete end tables precariously stacked five pieces high. With a 10 percent sales growth this year, Legacy has quickly forgotten the recession's low point in March, when weak order volumes forced the company to implement four-day work weeks.

In November alone, the company that specializes in furniture for the medical industry added a half-dozen employees to its staff of 35. These days, everyone is clocking overtime and the 40,000-square-foot factory is starting to feel awfully cramped....Legacy's recent success highlights a trend: Counties with the heaviest reliance on manufacturing income are posting some of the biggest employment gains of the nation's early economic recovery. This is a big change from just half a year ago, when some economists worried that widespread layoffs by U.S. manufacturers might be part of an irreversible trend in that sector... Here in Catawba County, where native hardwoods and access to power have made the region a historical hub for furniture manufacturing, the unemployment rate dropped from a peak of 15.6 in March to 13.6 percent in September.

Elkhart County, Ind., meanwhile, saw such a startling surge in layoffs one year ago that President Barack Obama made a stop there in the opening weeks of his presidency. The unemployment rate there, driven by job cuts at RV manufacturers, spiked in March at 18.9 percent, but has fallen steadily ever since to 15 percent in September... "Manufacturing jobs are here to stay, and they're coming back," said Derald Bontrager, president and chief operating officer of Middlebury, Ind.-based RV maker Jayco Inc., which recalled or hired 200 laid-off workers over the summer to help ramp up production after an unexpected sales boom overwhelmed all-time-low inventories and left the producer unable to meet demand...

In western North Carolina, widespread manufacturing layoffs were a theme that predated the recession largely due to foreign competition. Yet Catawba County has been able to find some new employers eager to tap the available work force: Target Corp. opened a distribution hub in August, Apple Inc. is building an East Coast data center just 30 miles down the road from a similar Google Inc. server farm that opened last year as county recruiters brand the region as a "data corridor."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_stress_map_manufacturing


:)
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. "tap the available local talent", surely?
Everyone else, it's "talent". For the US, it's "work force".

Funny, that.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. Umm.... 'scuse me - good economic news is not allowed.
Edited on Sun Dec-06-09 11:25 AM by jpak
It only emboldens Obama cheerleaders and makes anti-Obama doomers look stupid.

:hi:

:thumbsup:
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. lol! Sorry about that... it seems I've gotten into a bad habit.
Edited on Sun Dec-06-09 12:35 PM by ClarkUSA
;)

:hi:
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Sky Masterson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. Everytime I hear someone say that we don't make anything anymore
I want to scream!We make all sorts of stuff.
I own a very small plastics manufacturing company and business is growing (slowly, but in the right direction).Americans can make anything and very well I might add.
We just need buyers.
Next year looks to be very profitable for me. :)
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. "Next year looks to be very profitable for me."
It's so good to hear that. Congratulations! :hi:

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Sky Masterson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thank you
:) :hi:
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. do you do small casting?
ive always found plastics interesting. Ive seen people make resin forms and run equipment that stretches plastic over forms.
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Sky Masterson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. It's a very small specialty shop

One of the items I make are Safety tubes for the bus industry.
I make several different colors.
Much of the production of these tubes end up in Elkhart,Ind
Elkhart is like the Bus and RV manufacturing capital of America.
:)
I make other things too.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. i see.
are those foam of hard? i don't think i have seen those on a bus before. My interest in plastics comes from my participation in SCA or medieval fighting. Many people make real steel armor but many more will hand cut and heat shape pieces into armor. Ive done it myself and i find it interesting the way plastic shapes at certain temperatures.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. lets hope
good luck to you and good luck to us all.
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Sky Masterson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I believe it will.
And of course good luck to us all. :)
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. That is wonderfullll
WAY TO GO.. :)
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
30. Besides being the largest manufacturer of finished products on the planet Earth,
and the third largest exporter (by dollar amounts) of all products, food, finished goods, raw materials, etc., we really suck.

Reality needs to pay a visit to the people here who continuously moan, "We don't make anything here anymore!".


Glad to see your business is picking up.



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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #30
69. I keep hearing how we are a big exporter.....
Then there is the balance of trade with China?
It is heavy industry that worries most. Steel, cars, ships, the things that might come in handy for our national security. Can't be buying tanks made of steel we have to get from China.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
74. plastics manufacturing?
Like say plastic bags? I am actually looking for some info on getting an item made that I have come up with any chance you could do something like that?

PM me if it sounds like something you could handle and would be willing to take the time to discuss.

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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
80. You are so correct...we are still the largest manufacturer in the world
Edited on Mon Dec-07-09 01:54 PM by Garam_Masala
we just dont make many consumer goods, of the type you buy in Wal-Mart, Sears, K-Mart etc.
We make lots of pharmaceuticals, aircraft, military hardware, software, medical devices etc.
We are tops in chemicals & fertilizers & lumber products.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm bothered by manufacturing numbers because the production
of hamburgers (Mickey D's, Wendy's, etc.) was thrown into the mix during the Bush regime to make things appear rosier than they really were. If manufacturing numbers are going up, it might be because people can only afford a dinner out at a burger joint.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. frankly i have no idea what the hell your talking about
Edited on Sun Dec-06-09 11:44 AM by mkultra
restaurant and service are never part of the heavy manufacturing numbers. I think you got a hold of some bad acid. This sounds like one of those "whisper facts" that is impossible to refute because its completely made up.
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. Agree not heavy mfg. But fast food is considered mfg.
And bakeries are considered factories too, regardless of size.

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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. maybe by some but not those who produce these stats
Its just not true.
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #40
57. I would like to retract half my assertion: Fast food is NOT mfg.
Edited on Mon Dec-07-09 06:28 AM by TalkingDog
However bakeries, regardless of size are. Manufacturing is defined as the process of transforming raw materials into finished goods that can be sold. And so by the standards of those who produce the statistics is consider manufacturing.

edited for clarity
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
38. I wish it was bad acid.
Edited on Sun Dec-06-09 03:01 PM by Vinca
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Uh, i hate to bring this up brother
but that article points to a question posed by junior to congress. Not to an actual change. I think that may just be a piece of flotsam that washed up on your beach a while back.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-09-09 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
99. You can rest easy: "McDonald's sales take hit from US joblessness" (12/8/09 AP sourced link -->)
"CHICAGO (AP) -- The supersized recession that was a boon for business last year caught up further with
McDonald's Corp. in November, as high unemployment ate into sales."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/McDonalds-sales-take-hit-...
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
9. let me be the first in this thread to invite the debbie Downers to
enjoy their crow.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
12. John Deere called back over 400 here.. and that is hard manufacturing
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. That's great. I hope that all this news points to next year being even better on the jobs front.
Edited on Sun Dec-06-09 11:59 AM by ClarkUSA
As Pres. Obama said at his Economy and Jobs Forum townhall, "The trend line looks good."

:hi:
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. It is.. We are headed in the right direction finally..
:hi:..
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
95. Yes., we are. I'm as happy as you are about it, too.
:hi:
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. One day at a time....
small steps lead to bigger onse once confidence comes back.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-08-09 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
98. Yup.
That's the only way to get back to solid economic ground again.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. This is what's known as a brief crest in an L-shaped depression
It's expected that there will be temporary periods of "not so bad" in a situation the U.S. is facing. There needs to be a colossal revamping of our ruinous "trade" policy with the cheap-labor nations like China, Mexico, Vietnam, India, etc. for there to be a permanent reason to smile.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Well put brentspeak. :-) eom.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
44. Yes, but the fundamentals will continue to be ignored..
while these withering little green shoots are hyped as if they signal some genuine recovery. That's the current state of our economy. A crumbling middle class ruled by oligarchs and their puppet government who refuse to make the slightest of sacrifices in the name of the greater good. As long as the masses keep buying the propaganda, their rigged game will go on.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #44
54. Thank you so much for that note of encouragement.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Hekate

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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #54
68. But there isn't a "single step"
Edited on Mon Dec-07-09 11:18 AM by brentspeak
That was girl gone mad's point. A "single step" in regards to the nation's economic future would mean some fundamental change in policy. Without a change in policy, however small, a report about a few more people being called back to a factory for temporary work gives the misleading impression that the future of the nation's economy is turning the corner, when, of course, it couldn't.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #54
76. lol
:thumbsup:

:hi:
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
78. Whatever. It's known as "good news" to most Americans.
Edited on Mon Dec-07-09 01:42 PM by ClarkUSA
:eyes:
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boomerbust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. Excellent
Good news is on the way.
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Kdillard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. Very good news. I am hoping that in 2010 we see this trend continue and the Jobs bill
Helps things even more.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R
ClarkUSAUnderground rules!
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. More good news. K&R.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
25. BOOYAH!
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
27. Not really a surprise
And I really like good news!

K/R!
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
28. Main and only reason manufacturing will be on the rise in USA---->
Cheaper dollar! The more dollar falls, the cheaper it is to make
goods here compared to other manufacturing behemoths.

However cost of anything imported from gasoline, cars, clothes,
shoes, electronics, etc will be higher.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Dollar up on unemployment numbers...
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. ...
Every thing's fine. :evilgrin:

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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Gettin' better... nt
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. ... yep.
Countdown to Free Fallin.' 10 ... 9 ...

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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Not likely... nt
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Well not for the upper 1%. After all, they have our tax dollars.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #31
50. Holy Shit!! Any report on the condition of the guy taking that bull photo?
Edited on Mon Dec-07-09 12:01 AM by bertman
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
42. You are looking at the short term blip in dollar..look at this longer term chart
Look at the trend for 1 year...dollar is falling long term.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=DXY:IND
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
43. Not really. "Dollar rises on unexpectedly strong employment data" (Dec. 5, 2009)
Edited on Sun Dec-06-09 07:00 PM by ClarkUSA
NEW YORK, Dec. 4 (Xinhua) -- The U.S. dollar rose across the board on Friday as the latest non-farm employment
report was much better than expected, suggesting that the U.S. Federal Reserve may lift interest rates earlier than
expected.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-12/05/content_12...


In fact, the dollar has been strong recently, so this rise in manufacturing doesn't seem tied to a weak dollar as you are asserting.
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. you are looking at a short term blip..look at this long term chart dor US$
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #46
63. The dollar is trending up now, however. As the good news continues, then so should the trend.
Edited on Mon Dec-07-09 10:30 AM by ClarkUSA
Of course, we don't want the dollar to get too strong against foreign currencies, but I doubt there's much danger of that at the moment.
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #63
70. Best indicator of long term world economic trends
is the Baltic Exchange.

http://www.investmenttools.com/futures/bdi_baltic_dry_i...

goes back to the 15th century.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #63
71. The US$ has been dropping against western Europe and Japan since April 1985.

There have been a few upward blips in that time, most notably in 1993 and again this year. But I doubt we are going to see the past quarter century trend reversed for very long.

Of course, it does make one wonder where all those people complaining about the dollar dropping the past couple months were for the year prior to that when the dollar was experiencing one of its rare upswings. Or for that matter where they've been the past quarter century.

My company actually did more work throughout most of this recession. But since 80% of our work is overseas, the rising dollar wiped out our gains and then some. We are one business happy to see the dropping dollar.


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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. Yes, but I was speaking about micro-trendlines.
<<My company actually did more work throughout most of this recession. But since 80% of our work is overseas,
the rising dollar wiped out our gains and then some. We are one business happy to see the dropping dollar.>>

I understand. It is possible to strike a balance and I hope that's where we're headed.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #28
49. actually, thats not the only reason
the recent recession wasn't just US based, it was global. Since most of our manufacturing is exported(e.g. not retail) a jump in US manufacturing shows a pick up in the global economy.
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. That is also true, but without a cheap dollar why would anyone
want to pay higher labor rates in US?
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. because of the goods me produce
They are mostly high quality specialized items. The price is not really as much of an issue as it would be for retail goods.
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. absolutely correct..that is the really only area we can compete in
and to remain competitive in that area we need highly skilled workers
with world class education and motivation.

Do you know our corporate tax is the 2nd highest in the world?
Only Japan is very slightly higher. I am talking about industrialized
countries.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #55
62. did you know it was 90% in the 50's
The hay day of manufacturing.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #62
73. On what do corporations pay taxes anyway?

Doesn't reinvestment or paying out dividends eliminate 99% of corporate profits leaving pretty much nothing on which to tax the corporation?


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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. Dividends
are not tax deductible for corporations. Essentially dividends are taxed twice.
First the corporations pays tax on profits then individual pays again based
on his tax bracket.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. EVERYTHING is taxed multiple times.

The person buying the corporation's product did so using money on which they had been taxed upon receiving it. Odds are they then paid a sales tax during the transaction. Which is what will probably happen again if the recipient of the dividends spends their dividends on goods. Then the providers of those goods will be taxed, etc.

Kennedy said something along the lines of "when a dollar changes hands five times, the federal government should have collected the entire dollar".


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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. its the transaction that is being taxed, not the actual dollar
the economy possesses something like 15 times higher value than actual money in circulation. That amount expands and contracts depending on the many factors.
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #82
90. WOW that Kennedy dude was such a genius
I wish he had 8 years in White House instead of 3 years and 8 months.
He was the most charismatic president at least since I immigrated to
USA in 1960.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #73
83. reinvestment is also not deductable
expenses are. Capital investments are deductible in a manner called depreciation which essentially represents the value of the object lost each year. I think it eventually equals the total amount after 27 years.
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #62
77. No it was 50% for corporations and 90% for individuals
Edited on Mon Dec-07-09 01:49 PM by Garam_Masala
and remember that when President Kennedy reduced taxes, US
had practically monopoly on manufacturing facilities and know how.
Germany and UK and Japan were pretty much bombed out.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #77
85. my bad, you are correct
thanks for the correction. im getting old.
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. Welcome to the club
I am no spring chicken myself hehe...keep on trucking!
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dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #55
88. Except most corporations don't pay ANY US taxes
"Do you know our corporate tax is the 2nd highest in the world?
Only Japan is very slightly higher. I am talking about industrialized
countries."

Sounds like something I'd hear on Faux News.

GAO: Most U.S. Corps. Don't Pay Income Tax
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

..."The study says about two-thirds of American corporations paid zero income taxes to Uncle Sam between 1998 and 2005.

An even higher percentage of foreign corporations avoided federal corporate taxes. At the same time, said the GAO, the firms had trillions of dollars in sales."
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. Corporation NEVER pay any taxes anyways...they are all paid by
consumers & cutomers. Which is why I favor progressive tax on individual incomes.
The corporate tax just gets passed on to consumers and customers of the corporation.

Also, every corporation is owned at the end of food chain by some individuals.
By taxing those individuals at progressive rates, you avoid penalizing the
joe-6-packs who work in the corporation or holds a few shares in their 401-k's.

Another unintended consequence of corporate tax is that we penalize the most
efficient and reward the inefficient 2/3rds you mention.

Finally, corporate taxes put our domestic corporations at a disadvantage in
competing with foreign corporations. It encourages corporations to move
operations abroad.

When individuals are taxed at a fair progressive rate, the rich individuals
owning lots of corporate shares pay the lion's share of tax as it should be.
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dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. So which is it, and why were you chirping about our "high" corp. tax rates?
"Corporation NEVER pay any taxes anyways...they are all paid by consumers & cutomers."

Yet in your earlier post that I responded to, you went out of your way to trumpet the favorite RW talking point,
"Do you know our corporate tax is the 2nd highest in the world?
Only Japan is very slightly higher. I am talking about industrialized
countries. "

Re penalizing the 1/3 of corps that DO pay income taxes vs the 2/3 that pay no income taxes, I agree that's unfair, but not because the corporate income tax rate is too high, it's historically low. The problem is that tax law has not kept up with the corporate global shell-games, such as tax havens and ambiguity about what nation a corporation actually should pay its taxes in.

Re encouraging corporations to move operations abroad, they're being actively encouraged to do so by US government subsidies, not just because we tax them too much. And we need to resist the mentality of capitulating to corporate interests on the fear they'll leave, it just lowers corporate accountability world-wide when we do so. If they won't make reasonable contributions to domestic tax rolls, to hell with them, we don't need or want them. Seriously, the social democratic countries that are doing fairly well in the current economic crisis wouldn't lower themselves to such corporate give-aways, and neither should we.
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. Both!
Corporate taxes are not fair. The CEO making millions gets taxed
at max rate of 39%. Where as the chump collecting $200 in dividends
has paid the corporate tax rate...whatever it is for that corporation.

I would rather the high income pay 50% or more and corporation pay nothing.

Note that corporations are ALWAYS owned by some individuals..as share holders
or privately owned. It is more fair to make those high income individuals pay
higher rates than small stock holders and low paid employees.
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. The main point you are mising in your thinking is...
that corporations have INDIVIDUAL OWNERS at the end of food chain.
If a rich guy owns a million shares of IBM, let HIM pay the high rate
based on his high dividend income. Not the schmuck holding 50 shares
in his account.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
34. Thanks for the really good news on our economy, Clark.
"Manufacturing jobs are here to stay, and they're coming back," said Derald Bontrager, president and chief operating officer of Middlebury, Ind.-based RV maker Jayco Inc., which recalled or hired 200 laid-off workers over the summer to help ramp up production after an unexpected sales boom overwhelmed all-time-low inventories and left the producer unable to meet demand..."

This is interesting..I like Derald Bontrager's enthusiasm :bounce:
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. You're welcome, Cha. I like your enthusiasm, too!
I was pleasantly surprised that this news made a headline. I hope the MSM picks up on it tomorrow.

:fistbump:

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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
45. This is anecdotal information which doesn't jibe with the hard data.
Edited on Sun Dec-06-09 09:05 PM by girl gone mad
In analyzing the most recent BLS report, it's clear that we lost a total of 68,000 goods producing jobs, which were mostly replaced by lower paying retail/service jobs:

  • 11,000 jobs were lost in total vs. 190,000 jobs last month.
  • 27,000 construction jobs were lost vs. 62,000 last month.
  • 41,000 manufacturing jobs were lost vs. 61,000 last month.
  • 58,000 service providing jobs were added vs. 61,000 lost last month.
  • 15,000 retail trade jobs were lost vs. 40,000 last month.
  • 86,000 professional and business services jobs were added vs. 18,000 added last month.
  • 40,000 education and health services jobs were added vs. 45,000 added last month.
  • 11,000 leisure and hospitality jobs were lost vs. 37,000 last month.
  • 07,000 government jobs were added vs. 0 added last month.


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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
47. Kick for good news. I can't believe how much some people are invested in having everything turn to
sh@# (or continue as sh#$). The idea that we could be at the beginning of an actual recovery must be rejected.
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-06-09 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
48. Rec'd! Excellent...thanks for the info! n/t
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
51. Great News!! I can't wait til it trickles down to us contractors. The early 2010 schedule
ain't looking all that hot where I come from--about 150 miles east of Catawba County.


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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
56. This is very encouraging! Thanks, ClarkUSA for starting a great thread.
:fistbump:

Hekate

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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #56
72. You're welcome, Hekate! I'm happy to offer FACTS despite the many unrecs by the usual Failers.
Edited on Mon Dec-07-09 11:58 AM by ClarkUSA
:fistbump:


:hi:
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
58. K&R
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
59. Thanks for some uplifting news for a change. From the responses, I'm sure...
"Ignored" doesn't like this news. Why would anyone want the US economy to fail? Are they that invested in being right, and the administration being wrong? :wtf:
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
60. some folks
will be truly disappointed when the economy recovers this spring.

This recession is already of unusual length. 18 months is a more typical duration. Pent up demand resulting from the abnormal length of this correction might even result in a stronger recovery than many expect. Unortunately for the downers, the world will not be coming to an end.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
61. Funny - nothing on this on the TV "news", but I did see CNN is still
saying that Obama's popularity poll is down again - they have been saying that since Thursday, though.
I thought nothing else was happening....

Thanks - Rec'd.
I really expect to see the manufacturing numbers much higher by spring, continuing to climb. I bet the GOP really hates this.

mark
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
64. Interesting sidenote: "...the company that specializes in furniture for the medical industry..."
I wonder what it means.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #64
65. Dentists' chairs, physical therapists' tables, emergency room furniture, etc.
That's my guess. It's a niche sector, obviously. I'm happy for them, in any case.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. No, I mean in regards to what the med. industry sees in it's future.
Especially regarding the HC bill.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. The stimulus plan released millions to struggling local community health clinics across the nation
Edited on Mon Dec-07-09 11:04 AM by ClarkUSA
Perhaps these clinics are spending some of that money now to refurbish/remodel or expand their services to accommodate
a wider public. As for your thoughtful question re: "what the med. industry sees in it's future" there can only be educated
speculation.
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
81. well, well more progress for Obama, but I thought he was a Corporate Nazi?
:sarcasm:
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #81
87. lol! Some bitter folks still haven't gotten over him winning last year so they spew bullshit 24/7.
But this kind of good news is the kind of fact that no amount of Outrage can detract from.

:fistbump:
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-07-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
86. Oh No! not MORE good news. I can't take it. n/t
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-08-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #86
97. lol
:hi:
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RepublicanElephant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-08-09 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
96. k&r
yes we can!
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