So how many blocks from Ground Zero is acceptable?

[Armstead]

Two blocks is too close people say.

How about three blocks? Four blocks? Five? Ten? Another borough?

How far out would be acceptable? Is there some magic point where people who are yelling about this would just shut up?

[vaberella]

1. Probably nothing will shut people up, so it should be on the same block.

Many people forget that many Muslims died in 911 too.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. To listen to all the bullshit you'd have to believe that they are building it

ON the site, in the god damn center of it, to the exclusion of anything else.

[eleny]

How far is it to Riyadh?

[Gormy Cuss]

3. About four million

or as many blocks as it would take to place the mosque outside of the country.

[dkf]

4. How's about a building that wasn't incapacitated by a 9/11 plane?

It's not the proximity for me...it is the significance of that building and that plane.

[dflprincess]

7. The building has been standing empty for nearly 9 years

there is a lot of empty real estate in that part of the city.

You think an empty Burlington Coat Store does the area more good than a Community Center?

What would you like to see go in there - maybe another "Gentleman's club". There are a few of those in the area.

[dkf]

8. Empty... same as the WTC. And for the same reason aka Bin Laden.

Thank you for making my point.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dflprincess]

33. One last time, it is NOT a mosque, it's a community center

it's not even connected to a mosque. It will offer services to anyone in the neighborhood much like the YMCA or YWCA. The local zoning board approved the project. There already is a mosque in lower Manhattan and has been for sometime. Perhaps you think that should be shut down.

You are buying into a right wing wedge issue by calling this a mosque and getting your undies in a bundle over it. And the polls show the majority of New Yorkers who live in Manhattan approve the construction of the center the highest rate of disapproval is coming from Staten Island. The split when all New Yorkers are polled is very close to even.

BTW I mentioned the strip club because we keep hearing this is "hallowed ground". Really, how often do see a strip club on sacred ground - I really doubt they'd put one next to St. Patrick's Cathedral (of course that real estate is more valuable). I was recently in that area - this is far enough from the Trade Center site to be off the normal tourist path and is a neighborhood that is in need of some new construction.

[sohndrsmith]

22. Okay, so how does a mosque have any significance to "that plane"?

Are Churches bad or unacceptable because some people have committed horrifically violent crimes because of (the claim) their religious beliefs?

Based on your argument, I assume you'd fully agree... right?

[Lorien]

5. Let's stop using BushCo terms for starters. "Ground Zero" is in Hiroshima

the area in Manhattan is the WTC site. No one is building a community center on the WTC site.

[Billy Burnett]

70. In the context of terrorist destruction on American soil, Wall Street is Ground Zero.

imo.


:hi:

[MichiganVote]

6. Maybe they should just build something AT 911. Its been how long?

[dkf]

10. Yeah let's build cordoba house there. It doesn't even need to be torn down. P

[OHdem10]

9. It really is not about the distance, if we are honest. Some old

history keeps this country at odds.It is about a tendency
in this country to show Religious Bias. Some of us hate
to admit we are old enough to remember when Catholics
and Jews were less than 2ond Class Citizens especially
in the South. For at least it is most uncomfortable
to listen to fighting over Religion. Of course, they
will never admit that. Now "the distance", if it were
not the distance it would be something else.

I have a problem trying to understand and I have sincerely
tried to think through this. No matter how you slice or
dice it a Muslim Mosque is the agitation point. Either
you cannot separate Islam from the Terrorists and their
warped version of Wahabism. If you can separate the two
in your own mind, then why is Islam and a Mosque such
flash points of anger. Because some horrific Muslim Terrorists
who perverted Islam and attacked NYC, then all Muslims
must pay a price.

I am not taking sides in this fight.

President Bush understood and tried his best to keep
our country respectful of each other's Religion.
No, I have not had many good things to say about GWB
but he understood the dangers that occur when we lose
respect for others and their Religion. Where are
the standard bearers in the Republican Party now.
Instead of being statesmen they appear, I said appear
to be going down into the mud. If they do not think
this is a good polictical, why did they not form a
Committee and go to the Mosque Developers including
the Imom and have some quiet out of the cameras view
and try to reach a better conclusion. ( Very early on
before this becams so inflamed.)

They know their is Muslim Bias in this country--some
very serious--Religious Difference. I am not going
to list them all here. They are affirming those who
call Islam a dirty religion. those who do not accept
Religious History and deny Islam as one of the Three
Great Religions. Politicians must be very careful
appease one group and you turn off other Religious
Groups.

[dkf]

11. I don't support this mosque being built on a 9/11 location

But I support giving Palestinians their own state and I support getting out of Afghanistan and Iraq. I'm trying to be respectful to people who lost family in 9/11 and people here insist I hate Muslims.

What do Muslims think about this? Do they want cordoba house to be built or not? Do they think it will make their situation better or worse?

[sohndrsmith]

15. why do you think a mosque (much less anything) is being built "at the 9/11 location"? n/t

[dkf]

17. UAL flight 175 went through the south tower then the north tower then it's fuselage and landing gear

Went through the roof and two floors of the building currently at the Cordoba House site. It's been closed ever since because it's internal structure was too damaged to be fixed.

It isn't two blocks away. It's in the damage zone.

[sohndrsmith]

19. You mean the former Burlington Coat Factory? The building is part of the

WTC complex? Was a structural target? How far out does the GZ outline reach to? Are any and all buildings with primary, secondary or subsequent damage all considered within the formal location of what we know of as Ground Zero?

So if it were a Starbucks or a Gold's Gym or a Catholic Church or a Planned Parenthood Clinic or a Mental Health Center for Veterans of Foreign Wars or a new Danish Embassy.... would you object?

I'm not sure I understand your perspective... <?>

[dkf]

26. The crash site of the Pennsylvania flight has a memorial too.

That area wasn't the target at all but that is where the plane landed and where those passengers died. We shouldn't build a mosque there either.

[LostinVA]

28. It was the LANDING GEAR

[CTLawGuy]

32. there are 1.5 Billion with a B muslims in the world

at the time Al Qaeda carried out 9/11, it had at most 1000 operatives, according to Wikipedia.

Even if you increase that ten times to estimate the number of violent Muslims, that would make the number of violent Muslims equal to 7 TEN-THOUSANDTHS of one percent of all Muslims.

To associate what these Al Qaeda nutjobs did with mainstream Islam or one of its community centers is plain irrational. If Islam were even close to a violent religion, the earth would be literally doomed.

[SoxFan]

43. What about the porn shop, strip club, and OTB parlor in the neighborhood?

Do these places honor sacred ground?

Have you ever been to lower Manhattan? If you have, you realize that it is one of the most densely packed places in North America. There are literally thousands of businesses, places of worship, and residences within walking distance of the WTC site. It is, and always has been, a vibrant area with folks from every ethnic, socioeconomic, and religious background. To single out this project for scorn is to engage in discriminatory behavior.

And before anyone starts shrieking at me as being insensitive to 9-11 families, I lost a high school classmate in the towers, and another friend was working at the Pentagon when the attacks took place.

[Yavin4]

44. Hey, To Be Fair, The Strippers Do Observe A Moment of Silence Before Beginning Their Shifts

They do have some respect you know.

[MadMaddie]

12. Depends

Are you building a Mosque or a Christian Church?? :sarcasm:

See how I did that? You bet your bottom dollar when someone denies a Christian church like they are doing the Mosque they will be singing a different tune.

[sohndrsmith]

16. hmm... do mosques enjoy the same tax-exempt status that churches do?

My guess is yes - as a place of worship - but I don't know as the proposal is for a community center that includes a top floor space for worship (if I heard correctly).

Wait - my own argument makes no sense - if it generates tax dollars, the money-hungry (who'd benefit) would be fighting over the ribbon cutting ceremony as we speak, wouldn't we?

I'm confused. This is racism, bigotry, prejudice, ethnic hatred and all things ugly related by default. Nothing more, nothing less. And as such - completely and utterly without merit, honor, logic or positive component whatsoever.

Humans confound me sometimes in their ability to hate imaginary things about people/groups to such extremes.

[MadMaddie]

42. I agree with you

I am sick of it all. The hatred is appalling.

The Republicans will attack anyone or anything for political gain.

[sohndrsmith]

14. There is a mosque 1,600 ft. away. Neither the planned mosque or the

the one now in use (and has been for nearly 3 decades) is a "Ground Zero" mosque. A mosque is not being built "at Ground Zero".

Anyone who doesn't **get** the structure of a big city (NYC in particular) and how proximity of A to B in blocks, feet or some other measure means close to nothing but instead often seem worlds apart - for lots of reasons

Imagine some formal federal or legal address requiring fingerprint recognition, security clearance, etc. that exists in the same building - facing the same street - who's front door is no more than 50 feet away from... say... Masjid Manhattan. This place of worship (mosque) is (was until 2008) 1,584 FEET (or .3 mi) from the current WTC memorial. Most likely you could walk into the mosque and talk to someone. But it could take you months of red tape and qualifying to gain entrance to the other address "right next door". Be easier to fly to Vegas just to enter a DMV.

The "distance" factor insanity notwithstanding, this is a (gasp!) "Muslim place!" Oh no!!! (good grief)...

Clearly, this and any other mosque is a gathering place for hateful, terrorizing extremists. Just look at what their website claims (scary stuff! - yes you do know sarcasm when you see it):

"Since 1970, Masjid Manhattan has been a peaceful, not-for-profit organization located in the area of downtown Manhattan. Our members are City, State and Federal employees, as well as professional employees of the Financial area who come to our Masjid to perform their daily prayers.

Masjid Manhattan and its members condemn any type of terrorist acts. In particular, the attacks of 9/11 where non-Muslims as well as Muslims lost their lives. Islam always invites for peace; therefore Islam is not responsible for the actions of some ill individuals who, independently from what Islam advocates, have hatred against humanity. As Muslims and as Americans, we will never forget the beloved ones who perished that terrible day of September 11, 2001.
OUR MASJID NEEDS YOUR URGENT HELP!
Help Us Replace What We've Lost.

On May 25th 2008 our Masjid was evicted and forced to vacate the building which it occupied for 28 years. By the mercy of Allah, we found a small temporary location just two doors down the street from the old location and Alhamdullillah we did not have to close the Masjid. This new rental space is extremely small and it only has room for 20% of our members during Jummah. The rest of the members have to pray on the sidewalk outside the Masjid and are not able to listen to the Khutbah."

[Honeycombe8]

18. You'd have to ask the murder victims' families, I guess. How far away would it

be NOT to be considered building a monument that is connected ideologically in some way to Ground Zero?

Two blocks away (those NY blocks are very short) is close enough to be considered in the Ground Zero immediate area.

There are hundreds of mosques in NYC. None of them have been connected with Ground Zero, or their locations objected to. So one question, I guess, is...where are the other mosques in NYC located?

[sohndrsmith]

20. 1,584 feet from what is now the WTC memorial - or .3 mi - a 6 minute walk.

But I don't understand why the fact that this is a mosque is the issue that matters. Muslims, Muslims who are American citizens, Muslims who worked or were in the WTC towers on 9/11 or were first responders and were victims - killed or injured, Muslims who understand (better than many non-Muslims, apparently) that the crazy, violent murderers who hijacked those planes had zero similarity to or understanding of the religion that non-insane Muslims practice daily... Muslims GET that they aren't the enemy, nor is their religion - but some small-minded idiots have deemed it so - extremely inappropriately and without basis other than some really ugly sensibilities.

If you, I, or anyone is truly able to believe that Muslims and all aspects of their practicing/adhering to their faith = including the buildings they specifically choose to do it in - are a threat, then by default those of us who really believe this ought to be willing to accept the situation if/when we are displaced, refused, condemned and viewed as a threat because we're (insert faith or belief of choice) because a few people who have the same faith decided to kill thousands of people - so WE are to blame as well and will always be viewed as potential murderers. If we're willing to stand by the first statement and not the second - then we do nothing but clarify how stupid this argument is.

Muslims are not the enemy. Bad guys are the enemy. If we want more Muslims to be increasingly annoyed at us - then we should definitely treat them like they're criminals... even if they have spent their entire lives in humanitarian efforts, even if they're three years old, even if they are the professor or teacher who changed our childs' life when we thought there was no hope, even if they are mothers, grandfathers, sons, sisters, babies, lovers, parents. Doesn't matter... they're all bad....
right?

WRONG.

Who has the right to determine what religion is "acceptable" and which isn't? Christianity is not exactly non-violent, historically... this whole argument just proves how ignorant we allow ourselves to be when we form beliefs and views without thinking... and worse...

[Honeycombe8]

24. I think you're missing the point. It's not about their right to practice their religion.

Ground Zero is sort of like a Native American Sacred Site. A special place. A place where several thousand people were murdered by people who said they were doing it in a jihadist act, in accordance with the Muslim faith. The buildings were also destroyed. The leader of the proposed mosque announced after the terrorist act that the US was a participant in the acts. The leader has expressed SOME sympathy with Hamas in the past. Muslims have in the past built mosques on sites they have destroyed, as monuments.

So I see it as a very natural concern that this particular leader wants to build this overly large center and mosque at a location that can be considered Ground Zero immediate area, under the circumstances I state in the paragraph above. He could ease those concerns somewhat (some people's concerns will never be eased), but he has chosen not to.

It's not about the right to build on your own property. Of course we have that right, under most circumstances. It's not about freedom of religion. It's about this particular area being a sort of sacred ground to many in NYC and around the country.

I'm not saying it should NOT be built. I'm saying that it should be discussed more, examined more, and definitely the source of funds revealed. Taking into account the sacred nature of the site to many. And to call those who want a discussion of the matter silly names, or say they're bigots, is just flat wrong. It is not bigotry. I am certainly no bigot, not by a long shot.

But it's not my decision or yours.

[sohndrsmith]

30. You're sort of making my argument for me...n/t

[Hekate]

65. Keith O has said there is a strip club and a porn shop that are closer to this "sacred" place...

What is planned is a COMMUNITY CENTER that includes a prayer room. The gentleman in charge is apparently trustworthy enough for George W. Bush to have trusted him to be a kind of good-will ambassador for the US in the Mideast. I recommend Keith Olbermann's comments on the subject.

It's as if someone wanted to build a YMCA that included a prayer room (because of that whole Young Christian thing) and the neighbors had a hissy fit because in their minds it was going to be a Holy Roller Mega-Church With Every Day Proselytizers on the street corner. Never mind the swimming pool and basketball courts, never mind the day care center and senior exercise classes -- that little prayer room tells the real story by gum.

A community center sounds a great deal more wholesome and in keeping with the desires of those who SAY this is all about honoring the Big Hole In The Ground than does the presence of the usual sleazy New York establishments, i.e. the pornography shop and the strip-tease club.

You personally may not see yourself as a bigot. You may not even act like one on a daily basis. But apparently you, like too many others, have fallen prey to fear of The Other--a fear that's been part of the RW propaganda machine for the past 10 years.

What this really is, is religious bigotry. This nation has taken a gigantic step backward, and now, thanks to that, there are people all over the damn country who want peaceful establishments in their own cities to shut down and go away.

Think this through for yourself. You don't have to be part of that. Don't be.

Hekate

[sohndrsmith]

21. Of course you are including the Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Shinto, Taoist (etc.) victims, right? n/t

[Honeycombe8]

23. Of course. But I've not heard of there being any Taoist murder victims. nt

[sohndrsmith]

25. But you clearly know that my point was not based on which faiths I did or did not

list... : )

I listed several, that there were victims who worshiped or were faithful to religions I didn't list is highly likely - I don't know if there were Taoist victims or not. It's probably safe to assume there were many victims who were private or not necessarily forthcoming about their faith/spirituality (or lack thereof).

Bottom line - one's religion does not indicate a person's goodness (or badness), ethics, criminality, conscience or character unilaterally (or at best, significantly). It can have an effect, but such an effect is highly personal and individual, and therefore still can't be ascribed to one particular faith as the cause.

There is no objective measure signifying the value or quality of one religion over another, which makes the "Muslim isn't as good as ('my religion')" argument even more ugly and irrelevant.

One's faith or religion is **absolutely** no measure of one's value or worth as a person. Being a Christian or Muslim does not make one better or superior to those who are not of the same faith. Oddly, it seems we place this idiotic value sense on our and other's faiths anyway. It makes no sense... at all. Goofy.a
But I'm just thinking out loud (this argument really bugs me) and I'm guessing you're just funning me about what popped into my head to illustrate my point... : )

[dkf]

27. I'd say it has more connection to families of UAL flight 175 whose

landing gear destroyed the Burlington coat factory building. I can't imagine being a family member and going to see where the plane landed and seeing a mosque there. Some don't care if the families suffer as long as it's in the name of religious freedom and the constitution.

[LostinVA]

29. So, the Burlington Coat Fcatory has been a sacred pilgrimage site

These last nine years?

Oh brother.

:eofl:

[Posteritatis]

40. Okay, which family members do we listen to?

Do we listen to the ones who don't care if one was placed on the towers' footprint? The ones who're indifferent in general? The ones who think no mosques should be allowed in New York? The ones who don't think there should be any permitted in the US?

You didn't think they were a monolith, right?

[CTLawGuy]

31. the only thing acceptable to the Republicans

would be for all Muslims to pack up their things and leave the United States never to return.

That's what this is about - hatred of Muslims plain and simple.

[saltpoint]

34. Good point. This many blocks versus that many blocks,

etc.

I suggest building a huge Islamic Community Center next to Jim Inhofe's house in Oklahoma.

Land of the free, home of the brave, Jim.

[Armstead]

54. I'd vote for next to Newt Gingrich's home

[saltpoint]

58. Maybe one in both spots? Next to Newt's, though, is

ok by me.

:hi:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

35. since there are 2 real Moques there already and this isn't a Mosqe

[Beacool]

36. Why is it so hard to understand that people whose lives were affected by 9/11

may have misgivings about a mosque being built so near Ground Zero? It has been erroneously cast as a left / right wing issue when it's not. It's about human emotions and an open wound that still has not fully healed. I see the hole where the towers should be every day and every day that I see it my stomach contracts. I doubt that anyone who lived through that morning and the subsequent days, will ever forget it. I mean those of us who were at the WTC, not the ones watching it on TV. People are trying to come to terms with it, but many feel that building a mosque so near Ground Zero lacks sensitivity.

It's so easy for all of you to get on your PC soap boxes and stand in judgment. Well, next time a group of terrorists almost blows you up and you see people jumping out of windows to their deaths, then you can let us know how you feel about it. Until then, I wish everyone else in the country would just shut the hell up.

:-(

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

38. Maybe because it isn't a mosque. Maybe because

opposition to this community center smacks of anti-Muslim hysteria. Maybe because we shouldn't allow ourselves to get worked up into a lather by RW manipulators.

[verges]

46. The Law ie. The Constitution

is not based on emotion. It is cold and unfeeling. And it should be so. The community center will be on private property and has been approved by the local zoning commission.


I remember several years ago encountering this "emotion" argument. It was during the Flag Burning controversy of the early '90s. "My father fought and risked his life for the Flag!!" etc. Emotional manpulation or knee-jerk reactions should not be the basis for Law which is meant to protect and ensure equal rights for everyone.

[kiranon]

51. Jurors/judge not the victims decide punishment when a crime is committed

in order to remove emotion and to render justice. "Hang'em high" is not always the right answer or the only answer.

[Hekate]

67. Thank you

[CreekDog]

52. You mean Muslim familes who lost loved ones at the WTC would oppose the cultural center?

yes, i'm being snarkily sarcastic because you are parading your opinion as the reasonable one and all of us that don't believe religious groups should be bullied out of worshipping due to ignorant bigots as unreasonable.

well to that i say:

"I too sing America..."

[Starbucks Anarchist]

55. There are several mosques in that area.

And the Pentagon offers Muslim prayer services. Ever complain about them?

And what about the Muslim victims of 9/11 -- first repsonders, WTC/Pentagon workers, etc. What about them? Do they not count?

[Beacool]

59. That's precisely the point.

There has been a mosque in the Downtown area (it's on Warren St.) for 40 years. Therefore, that part of Manhattan is already covered.

How about rebuilding St. Nicholas instead? The Greek Orthodox church that was destroyed when the towers collapsed.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of the whole argument. I don't care anymore. Build the damn thing, don't build it.

Whatever.........

:eyes:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

61. You're not making any sense.

That part of Manhattan is already covered? Is there a limit to the number of mosques now?

And what does the mosque/community center have to do with rebuilding churches? I don't recall any Muslims preventing that from happening.

[Hekate]

68. Maybe that mosque is "Southern Baptist" and the new group is "Roman Catholic"...

In other words, one size does not fit all -- most especially in the USA.

edited to add: The subject line is an analogy, not meant to be literal. :eyes:

[Beacool]

75. I understood what you meant.

That I wouldn't know, but I get your point.

:-)

[Hekate]

66. Bea: It's a community center, not a mosque, and NY needs to rebuild the WTC site

Please hear me out.

What is so hard to understand about it being a community center? Or is it that you (and presumably others) simply cannot stand the thought of Those People being anywhere in the city? Well, they live there and they're your neighbors, and they didn't make the hole in the ground. Some of Those People died in the Towers as well. New York is probably the most diverse city on the planet. It houses large numbers of everyone from everywhere.

I'm not trying to be PC or disrespect the emotions that New Yorkers or anyone else may have about the heinous crime that took place. But there's churches around the area. Should we ask them to go away because in the past their antecedents committed heinous acts like the Spanish Inquisition and Salem witch trials? There's a porn shop and a strip joint -- both legit businesses, but in my opinion (and probably that of all the faithful be they Muslim or Christian or Jew) very sleazy enterprises. Should they be ordered out, as inappropriate?

There is a lot I don't understand about post-911. I don't understand how Americans -- the most enterprising engineers on the planet, and New Yorkers the most business-oriented -- could have not rebuilt on that site. If I understand correctly, there is still nothing there but rubble. Why? This isn't about grief -- it's about malaise. It's about defeat.

Americans build! It's what we do! When tornadoes level towns -- the residents bury their dead and rebuild. When rivers flood, the residents mourn, dig out and rebuild. When roads are covered by rockslides -- the County sends bulldozers and construction crews and the roads are cleared and traffic flows -- they don't go walking past 10 years later saying, "There used to be a road here."

It's only since George W Bush squatted in the White House that we don't. New Orleans drowned on his watch. 9-11 happened on his watch. The culture of Minerals Management was set by Bush's appointees so that the Gulf oil gusher happened on the next president's watch.

Why has the World Trade Center not been rebuilt? Perhaps if New Yorkers were to see new life taking hold there, they would start to feel better about themselves -- and others. Perhaps New Yorkers would start to feel like they were not defeated on 9-11. That neither NY nor America was destroyed, only injured, and that they (and the US) can and will recover.

Hekate

[Beacool]

74. The reason there's still mostly a hole in the ground

is that the Port Authority and Silverstein (the lease holder) can't seem to come to an agreement over what to build at the site. The family members also have sway in the matter. Some things are being built, such as the new PATH station terminal and a memorial museum. There's also conflict with the insurance companies, particularly Zurich RE. Were the attacks two incidents or one? Zurich argues that it was one and Silverstein that it was two.

As for the cultural center (which also does include a mosque). People here have mixed feelings about the project. Some couldn't care less, but most feel that it unnecessarily opens wounds that are still raw. I have mixed feelings too. I have nothing against any religion, but I do question whether that's the best place to build this center.

[SoxFan]

71. I lost a high school classmate in the towers

I also had a friend working at the Pentagon (he was out of the building when the plane hit). Not to mention several friends working on Capitol Hill, which may well have been the target of the plane that went down in Shanksville.

You can spare me the "insensitivity" charge.

The Constitution was not written to protect the views just of the majority. It was written to safeguard the views of those with unpopular or unconventional beliefs. It was not intended to be subject to the political whims and partisan games of the moment. It is precisely at moments such as this when we must recognize the genius of the Founders in not leaving these decisions to the Palins and the Gingriches of the world.

What part of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free excercise thereof" don't you understand?

[Beacool]

73. You are making it political.

I don't give a rats ass what the right , or for that matter the left, want.

They just conducted a poll of New Yorkers, the vast majority (56% to 34%) don't want it so near Ground Zero.

Furthermore, no one is denying anyone the right to practice their religion. They just don't want it two short blocks where almost 3,000 people were killed. What part of that don't YOU understand?

But it will probably get built, so you can all relax and get off the soap box.

;-)

[Hekate]

76. No, he's making it Constitutional. Big, big difference.

[SoxFan]

78. I give a rat's ass what the Constitution says

But even the Constitution has to take a back seat to your bizzare hatred of the President.

Hillary lost. She got over it. You need to do the same thing, Beacool. You're looking increasingly out of control.

[cottonseed]

77. Bigots

That's how simple it is.

[brooklynite]

37. Republicans have moved passed the "hallowed ground" argument...

Rick Lazio (R candidate for Governor) and Newt Gingrich have gone as fare as claiming these are radical Muslims and that the Mosque would be a "Security Risk" and a "Breed Ground for Terrorists". How, therefore, could they support placing it anywhere else?

[slackmaster]

39. Wrong question

The real issue is why we still grant tax-exempt status to religious organizations that refuse to stay out of politics.

[verges]

47. So maybe you should start your own thread

and let other people post the questions they would like to ask? Different discussion.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

41. I'm glad that disgusting ignorant ass comment about "if muslims took over" was deleted. Some

here sound like straight up right wingers with the bullshit arguments I'm reading. This is truly embarrassing.

[tridim]

49. They are right wingers.

They wouldn't be spamming DU 24/7 otherwise.

[AlinPA]

45. They are raising hell about a mosque in the south somewhere .

[unblock]

48. "no, mr. bond. i expect you to die!"

the real haters want the same thing of blacks, jews, and gays as they do of muslims.

they want them to vanish from the face of the earth, never to be heard from again.

[kiranon]

50. IMHO, being against the mosque is fear induced prejudice plain and simple.

People who live closest to Ground Zero support it. The Republicans have manufactured this outrage for political purposes. I am old enough to have lived through the civil rights movement and saw the same kind of logic then. What is being called for is a Muslim free zone but they are already there and as Americans have every right to be there. Muslims died at the WTC and fight and die for this country in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is unconstitutional on its face to deny the building of a Muslim community center/mosque on their property. If one keeps looking for an enemy within, sooner or later one will be found to fill the bill.

[IggleDoer]

53. My dad died of a heart attack ...

... and I have an elevated cholesterol. They're building a Burger King near our house. I think they are being insensitive.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Douglas Carpenter]

64. a NYT article about Imam Feisal and his plan for the center written before the crazy hate campaign

Muslim Prayers and Renewal Near Ground Zero

By RALPH BLUMENTHAL and SHARAF MOWJOOD
Published: December 8, 2009

snip:

“ As a Sufi, Imam Feisal follows a path of Islam focused more on spiritual wisdom than on strict ritual, and as a bridge builder, he is sometimes focused more on cultivating relations with those outside his faith than within it.

snip:

Those who have worked with him say if anyone could pull off what many regard to be a delicate project, it would be Imam Feisal, whom they described as having built a career preaching tolerance and interfaith understanding.

“He subscribes to my credo: ‘Live and let live,’ ” said Rabbi Arthur Schneier, spiritual leader of Park East Synagogue on East 67th Street.

snip:

The mayor’s director of the Office of Immigrant Affairs, Fatima Shama, went further. “We as New York Muslims have as much of a commitment to rebuilding New York as anybody,” Ms. Shama said. Imam Feisal’s wife, Daisy Khan, serves on an advisory team for the National September 11 Memorial and Museum, and Lynn Rasic, a spokeswoman for the memorial, said, “The idea of a cultural center that strengthens ties between Muslims and people of all faiths and backgrounds is positive.”


snip:

“ Building so close is owning the tragedy. It’s a way of saying: ‘This is something done by people who call themselves Muslims. We want to be here to repair the breach, as the Bible says.’ ”

The F.B.I. said Imam Feisal had helped agents reach out to the Muslim population after Sept. 11. “We’ve had positive interactions with him in the past,” said an agency spokesman, Richard Kolk. Alice Hoagland of Las Gatos, Calif., whose son, Mark Bingham, was killed in the hijacked plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, said, “It’s quite a bold step buying a piece of land adjacent to ground zero,” but she said she considered plans for the site “a noble effort.”

snip:

Joy Levitt, executive director of the Jewish Community Center, said the group would be proud to be a model for Imam Feisal at ground zero. “For the J.C.C. to have partners in the Muslim community that share our vision of pluralism and tolerance would be great,” she said.

Mr. El-Gamal agreed. “What happened that day,” he said, “was not Islam.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/nyregion/09mosque.html?_r=1

link to the cordoba intiative:

http://www.cordobainitiative.org /

link to Imam Feisal Press Conference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfIPO7CVflA

[babylonsister]

60. AT ground zero. We could then show those scary terraists

we aren't afraid of their threats, and are proud of our diversity.

I used to think that way, but am now embarrassed because of the brouhaha the rethugs wrought.

[krispos42]

62. All of them, apparantly

I guess all mosques in America should be built on barges in the Indian Ocean, diametrically opposite the WTC site.

40°42′42″S 105°00′15″E looks about right, if Wikipedia knows its shit.

About 8,000 miles as the worm burrows, and 12,500 miles by air.



The Pentagon mosque, however, can be built right on site.

[besdayz]

63. local

what happened to all zealous supporters of the local government making decisions....

the area council voted unanimously to build the mosque....it wasn't even close 29 to 1.

apparently that only applies with you agree with the local govt.

[old mark]

69. How about somwhere in Canada? nt

[SoxFan]

72. Plattsburgh

[DailyGrind51]

79. They might say "Detroit"?

[TheKentuckian]

80. All these responses and no direct answer to the question from opponents?

I think there are some dishonest brokers on this or they would answer the simple question.