Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Three-Dimensional Chess

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU
 
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 05:32 PM
Original message
Three-Dimensional Chess

With one move, President Obama was able to:

1. Get rid of McChrystal

2. Demote Petraeus (he was head of CentComm, now he's a field General again)

3. de-fang any criticisms the right could have over the McChrystal firing

4. Remove a possible 2012 opponent.

5. boost troop morale



Damn... he's better at this than even *I* thought.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Net recommendation: 0 votes (Your vote: +1)"
Edited on Wed Jun-23-10 05:37 PM by jenmito
I agree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. There could even be an added benefit
If Petraeus comes to the conclusion that there is no point continuing counterinsurgency in Afghanistan, then only the wackiest and most easily dismissed teabaggers will complain when the President throws in the towel and withdraws.

On the other hand, the potential downside is that the counterinsurgency campaign will spread to Pakistan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Your second note is far more likely.
Petraeus will want COIN+
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Not so fast with that snap judgment
Edited on Wed Jun-23-10 05:51 PM by Jack Rabbit
The government in Pakistan will be hard pressed to permit open US operations on their soil. Whether Petraeus wants it or not, it may be off the table. Petraeus is a big boy and smart enough to understand that, so if that is what it comes to he won't make a big stink.

Arguably it is more likely, but not far more likely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. There is nothing else. Petraeus is going to pretend to do COIN while looking for someone to buy off.
Edited on Wed Jun-23-10 05:46 PM by Jennicut
There is no other answer. And since Bush started this war, one of his most praised (puke) generals can end it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. That's basically how he got Bush's surge to work
Buying off enemy soldiers is part of COIN, after all. Granted, their loyalty is only assured until next pay day, if that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. I demand 4-dimensional chess!
OK, then, how about just moving the board out of Afghanistan (and the other one out of Iraq)?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. Bull fucking shit. No legendary supergenius would still be in Afghanistan at this point.
It's sickening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. The graveyard of empires
That is how Kipling referred to Afghanistan and It is still true. And I'll add that I believe Osama bin Laden knew this as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Jest roll to your rifle an' blow out your brains
When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains

And the women come out to cut up what remains

Jest roll to your rifle an' blow out your brains

An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
48. And say what you want about Field Marshal Montgomery...but he was right...
"The US has broken the second rule of war. That is, don't go fighting with your land army on the mainland of Asia. Rule One is don't march on Moscow. I developed these two rules myself."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. This should be the end of the thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
39. But its not
sigh
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Smashcut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. I guess those rubes over at the Nobel committee sure don't know geniuses when they see them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. In this case, that is precisely correct
Edited on Wed Jun-23-10 09:11 PM by PurityOfEssence
Barack Obama is the ultimate inside straight, and we're cajoled, hectored and insulted to fully believe that his intentions are not only what his most fanatical partisans say they are, but that they're actual achievements. They're not. His record was apparent a long time ago: he's an ultramoderate, ever seeking the precise middle of the middle of the road.

The most galling approach used to dissuade dissenters is that he's the ultimate strategist, playing the saps on the right to position himself for the moment he'll suddenly turn on corporations and become a champion of the little man. The whole thrust of this premise is that we should rest assured with the snickering little joy that he's lying to THEM, and not us. We're to be happy that he's so slippery, and we're to believe this against a wealth of votes in his legislative past.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. And perhaps he would even be showing us some major successes, if he wasn't governing by
Edited on Wed Jun-23-10 10:58 PM by truedelphi
Committee.

You cannot run a war and win it if you are running it by Committee.

You cannot save shorelines from oil, if you have the bureaucracies in charge (See Interior's action today against LA, and how they destroyed the chances of Louisiana dredges keeping pelican nesting grounds safe.)

The economists that look at the success of the middle classed and lower classes continues to see those people and their fortunes in decline, while the Geithner/Bernanke and their Aig, Goldman Sachs Committee keeps the Wall Street ends of things successful.

But one thing that governing by Committee can always do if you are the President is to give your Administration that Big Fat A+ .

It might not be worth much, but that is the thing Committees are best at.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. Kissinger won a Nobel too
Edited on Wed Jun-23-10 10:06 PM by arcadian
Clearly they don't
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Yes, and IT was for Peace, too...
Or as Brean says in David Mamet's "Wag the Dog":

If they can give Kissinger the Peace Prize, I wouldn't
be surprised to wake up and find I'd won the Preakness.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
45. good point. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
55. +1. (NT)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. Oh give me a break if he is such a strategist why
the hell are we going to lose Congress this fall? How did he let the Republicans gain the upper hand in the gulf disaster? Where are the F----g jobs?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. He said stategist, not miracle worker or magician
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. How do you know
we're going to lose Congress? :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. I was under the impression that we had to have elections first!
Apparently we already lost and it's all Obama' fault??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. I'm not Obama's Cheerleader, but..
I'm not convinced we'll lose congress this year, nor that the Republicans have gained the upper hand in the Gulf disaster. In fact, regarding the Gulf, just the opposite. The biggest bat we have in 2010 is the Republican lip-lock on BP's ass.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Um, we're going to lose congress this fall?
Who's going to win the superbowl?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. NY Giants, baby!
:bounce:!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. Most unjustified and unsupported post of the day
Man, you hate this guy a lot, don't you?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. He and #24 are just about tied. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. I reluctantly voted for him and have sadly
discovered over the 1 1/2 years that Hillary had a point when she asked who you would want to answer the phone at 3 am. Maybe all he needs to do is shake up his staff, I don't know, but so far he has been rather disappointing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
40. You haven't been paying attention or listening to the right-wing WSJ poll. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. There is an Atlantic
article that says McCrystal voted for Obama and is a liberal. Maybe he expected something different than he got re the war or maybe he has been deployed too long and was ready to come back. The whole situation is kind of weird.

Re the gulf. A giant Clusterfuck. BP is still running the show. I almost hit the roof when I read today they were going to ship in biologists to catch and care for birds.
Wildlife rehabbers work with these birds every day, raise them from chicks, doctor them up. They are the one's who know what each species needs and their idiosyncrasies.
They are the ones who have volunteered but have not been called. They are state licensed here in Fl.

I do mammals but I know many bird rehabbers with decades of experience in seabirds. Why in the hell are they going to ship biologists from the middle of the country? And yet we are not allowed to retrieve, nor care for these animals.
I see the Audubon society seems to be bypassing the feds and starting their own thing going becauseof this red tape. It is the same with them bringing in contractors who do not know the water instead of using locals who know every inch of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. I agree - excellent analysis. +1. n/t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tranche Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
22. I'll rec for a good time.
I like the guy, but I've got to giggle at this one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftyAndProud60 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
24. I love Obama, but it's clear he's not playing chess. I don't even know if he's playing Go Fish. NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
26. McChrystal was NEVER prez material; Petraeus, maybe;
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
28. This is merely window dressing...
..a shifting of personnel to distract the easily distracted while the REAL problem remains untouched.
The "Mission" in Afghanistan is a Failure.
Putting Patraeus in charge of the failure will change nothing.
This isn't 3 dimensional Chess.
This IS 21st Century American Cover Your Ass while Our Children are Dying for Nothing Politics.
.
.
.
.
Chess:
A game where the Pawns are sacrificed to protect The Royalty.
Sucks if you're a Pawn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. +10000
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
30. Obama just pulled a rabbit out of his hat
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
32. Obama mesmerized McChrystal with his Svengali tricks, causing him to talk shit with Rolling Stone
Edited on Wed Jun-23-10 10:29 PM by depakid
:freak:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Exactly. If anything, it is McChrystal who played Obama.
He had to know he was backing the President into a corner with his statements. Remember, these quotes were confirmed more than once. That means the editors called him back saying, "Did you really say that?" and McChrystal responded, "hell yes I did."

I suspect we'll be hearing from General McChrystal again...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
37. thank you, I THOUGHT this was a demotion for Petraeus.....
.... I've been confused the whole day thinking he was McChrystal's CO (kind of.)

thought I was losing my mind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
41. lipstick, pig.
war is not a game or a political strategy for winning elections.

Or at least it shouldn't be. Maybe it is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
42. The demotion of Petraeus is indeed pretty swift, he could simply not say no nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
44. Not the chess metaphor again!
Edited on Thu Jun-24-10 02:25 AM by JCMach1
:banghead:

I would buy it if he wasn't playing rock-paper-scissors in so many other areas. :sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no limit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
46. And our young US troops are the pawns. Right?
Edited on Thu Jun-24-10 08:34 AM by no limit
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. And the killed Afghan civilians are just collateral damage.
It is just a small cost of this BRILLIANT political move.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
47. Recycling tired talking points does nothing for the environment
Try cans and some new material.

Chess? More like conflict avoidance and taking the path of least resistance.

General Surge is highly overrated and has far too much influence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
49. Guess who's the sacrificial pawn?
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
51. Damage control = brilliant offensive strategy
Edited on Thu Jun-24-10 12:50 PM by whatchamacallit
:thumbsdown:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
52. "Boost morale"???
Have you queried any of the troops lately?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
53. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
54. I thought it was intergalactic chess. I always forget. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-24-10 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
56. I like pie. And this thread. And the recs the OP has.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Aug 23rd 2019, 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC