This whole half of Obama's first term has been a challenge to his legitimacy by the Right.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

We all know that ever since Bill Clinton's presidency, the GOP's approach has been to essentially deny the very legitimacy of any Democrat occupying the White House and running the country.

In Obama's case it's especially bad because of his race, so the very legitimacy of the man's status as a CITIZEN of the country he leads, his parentage, his place of birth, and his religion, are all questioned.

I view this business of Gen. McChrystal as being part of this same phenomenon, whether this was intentional on the General's part or not.

That's why, in my opinion, it's critically important that he be forced to resign or sacked. Any other outcome would further encourage President Obama's enemies and embolden his critics in the uniformed military, encouraging a breakdown in discipline, and would severely undermine President Obama's authority and ability to lead.

I don't think any other choice is possible. McChrystal is not such a unique flower that he can talk that way about the President to the press and get away with it and not be replaced.

The damage that will be done to Obama and his presidency if he does not sack McChrystal will, in my opinion, be far worse than any resulting discontinuity in management of the Afghanistan campaign from making this necessary move. In my view, allowing McChrystal to stay on would be absolutely the wrong decision, regardless the justification, and would be a REAL sign of weakness.

Of course the right wingers will make a hero and martyr out of Gen. McChrystal whatever happens, and their arguments are without merit, they don't hold any water. These same people, had the General been serving under Bush and made such criticisms public, would have been demanding the man be publicly tortured and executed. They are of no account.

Also, wasn't there an earlier incident where the General made remarks that were in the vein of forcing the President's hand by saying what "had" to be done when the President was still in the process of deciding and making his decision known before his speech on Afghanistan? I found that very suspicious at the time.

[monmouth]

1. If POTUS does not fire him or accept his resignation, he will be viewed

as weak, especially by me and I will be gone from my support for him...

[treestar]

3. It seems that this has taken over from the oil spill, etc.

but it's very odd for this to be the defining issue for anyone.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

5. It IS a very very important issue though. You could almost make an argument that

it's a defining one.

One of the most important if not THE most important duty of the President is as CINC. If he lets officers in general, much less one of the top ranking officers in the entire military, get away with saying, essentially, "Obama and his Administration are a bunch of fuckwit clowns" in public to the media, he is failing in his duty as CINC in my opinion, and then OBAMA will be the one showing poor judgment in what is necessary to maintain discipline in his military.

Already I'm not hearing anything about courts martial and dishonorable discharges for the fuckwit Army doctors who tried to dodge orders based on birther nonsense, and I already thought that was a big big mistake. They should get punished, severely, promptly, and VERY publicly to nip this shit in the bud. It's not clear to me that they have, and that to me is already a knock against the President who I supported very vigorously and with lots of cash in his election campaign, and who I still support.

This is on a much larger scale.

This is not to say that generals and admirals haven't thought these things about their leaders from the beginnings of recorded history. No doubt they have. But thinking it, speaking it to confidantes, and publishing the shit in Rolling Stone are completely separate issues.

[treestar]

15. every issue is of utmost importance when it hits DU

the over the top drama is hilarious sometimes.

I bet this poster already decided Obama no longer has his vote on the first ten issues. He stuck through health care and THIS is the thing that turns him. :rofl:

[monmouth]

7. No, this is the end of a compilation of numerous decisions POTUS

has made. This would just be the straw.

[Uzybone]

11. I will still be in support

but frankly Ill wonder whether or not our president has gone mad. There really is no other course.

IT snot as if McChrystal has been doing a bang up job in Afghanistan.

[vaberella]

12. How does it show him as "weak" ---I'm tired of this word in relation to the President.

McChrystal said as much in his profile in the Rolling Stone.

[treestar]

16. Amen! It is a right wing meme to be obsessed with weakness and

strength. Leave it to the freepers I say.

[WCGreen]

2. Whole heartedly concur.

[sandnsea]

4. I would insert FDR

"We all know that ever since FDR's presidency, the GOP's approach has been to essentially deny the very legitimacy of any Democrat occupying the White House and running the country."

I tend to agree with you on firing McChrystal, he probably should. I don't think he's the right one to achieve anything in Afghanistan anyway. But I wouldn't be surprised if Obama didn't fire him, he would believe putting the mission is more important than silly word games.

Maybe kicking some military ass around would get the attention of some of these generals though, that probably wouldn't be a bad thing.

[salguine]

6. And a challenge to the patience of the Left.

[davidpdx]

8. Kind of a side note on your comments about the right undermining Obama

I'm reading through Blinded by the Right by David Brock and I have to wonder if we are in for a similar ride to what they did with Clinton. Sure Obama has less personal baggage, but I am sure they can still find things to go after and exaggerate. It makes me wonder what we are in for in the near future.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

9. The racial/birther/Muslim goodness more than makes up for Obama's lack of personal baggage.

I realize it was quite crazy during Clinton's time but I think it's already worse.

The craziest Clinton era stuff was not broadcast on Fox or Drudge, it was videotapes and books circulated via direct mail ads etc. (The stuff claiming that Bill and Hill personally ordered the murders of dozens of people etc.)

The internet, and Fox and Co.'s increased brazenness, has made it far worse not halfway through Obama's first term.

[davidpdx]

10. Could be..

I'm maybe a little out of touch with the whole scope of things being outside the US. Then again, I don't have to listen to the right wing crap as much either. It's kind of nice to avoid.

[Jade Fox]

13. Legitimacy is a good word to use.....

The Right has worked hard to instill the idea that there is something basically illegitimate about Democrats, Liberals, etc. It's worked well, too. When Sarah Palin calls people "real" Americans, her base sees nothing amiss. After all, "real" Americans are like them: Conservative, Christian, and largely white. As for the rest of us, we are apparently some massive mistake.

Sigh.

[MadMaddie]

14. It's not just McCrystal it's most if not all of the holdovers from

the previous administration. They were left behind so they could poison the well so to speak.

Yes, the general did something in 2009 that was insubordination also.

[cleveramerican]

17. I don't think it was accidental

which lends itself to your view