Somebody. Anybody. Talk me down.

[Lucky 13]

I am an environmentalist. Education in zoology and conservation with specific courses in oceanography, marine biology, etc. Been working for over 10 years on issues of wildlife and habitat conservation around the globe. My current position is focused on the U.S. East Coast.

I am an educated, informed woman. Rational. Base my opinions on logic and fact.

But I am looking at this oil spill thing and cannot see any light at the end of the tunnel.


BEST case scenario, they stop the flow of oil TODAY, and the entire northern half of the Gulf of Mexico and its adjacent wetlands, beaches, and tidal areas are FUCKED, possibly forever. An entire ecosystem destroyed. Endangered species extinct. Collapse of fisheries. Done. Over.

But if they can't stop it VERY soon, like within the next couple of days... and we KNOW they can't... this will spread through out the gulf, the Caribbean, up the east coast via the gulf stream - polluting everything it touches along the way. And eventually, this will spread around the world.

In another article here, a fact I had long ago forgotten was brought to the forefront of my mind again: It takes one quart of motor oil to make 250,000 gallons of water toxic to wildlife. The life in the oceans controls much of the earth's oxygen production. If it were to die, or even a large portion of it were to die, no one knows how our atmospheric composition will be changed... we just know it will be VERY VERY bad, perhaps completely catastrophic.


I am literally sick and frightened and hopeless. I'm trying to be as logical as I can... but my logic keeps bringing me back to the facts above.

Can anyone please make a reasonable argument to me, based on science and fact, how we are not currently witnessing the eminent demise of our planet? How are we not completely screwed? Hell, at this point, if you have nothing logical... fucking make something up for me... cause I got nothin...

[phantom power]

1. Valdez is going to be a distant-2nd compared to this, before it's over.

[Lucky 13]

3. Agreed 100% and then some

But that doesn't talk me down at all...

[RandomThoughts]

2. It might get better.

:shrug:

Things often change for the better. I don't think it would do as much damage as you state.


I am not worried about it, it is sad, but honestly there are far worse things that have been going on for years.


I try not to worry about things like that.

[intheflow]

41. 20 years after the Valdez disaster and the ecosystem hasn't recovered.

Over a million fish and animal lives were lost immediately following the spill. Fishing towns had to declare bankruptcy. Mayors in several towns committed suicide in the weeks following the spill. And this spill will cover a much, much larger area than that spill. Remember, the Exxon Valdez was a finite ship with a finite cargo. The Gulf disaster is potentially limitless. You can try not to worry about things like the entire world ecosystem collapsing, but we may in fact be witnessing it. In any scenario, it will get much worse before we can hope for it to get better. :cry:

[Lucky 13]

50. You got that right

I lived in Alaska a few years ago. You still can easily find oil on the shorelines. And that is a ROCKY coast. not a wetland that soaks up everything like a SPONGE.

[tavalon]

58. It is awful but limitless is hyperbole

If it were limitless, Peak Oil wouldn't exist and it does and it's already happened. That said, this will be the worst disaster related to oil ever.

[intheflow]

62. Right.

There are infinite grains of sand on a beach, too, but as far as the human mind can grasp, their numbers are infinite. We don't know how much oil is being tapped. Oil wells go for decades, and we have no idea if/when this leak will be capped. So as far as the environmental impact, the amount of oil being released might as well be infinite.

[tavalon]

65. That I can agree with

The bright side is that for the next few years at least, no one with a lick of sense will be advocating any further offshore drilling. Small silver lining, though.

[closeupready]

91. Alaska is a colder climate than the Gulf, and in warmer climates, the oil disperses quickly.

n/t

[intheflow]

92. But Alaska also has a rocky coast (easier to clean)

instead of sandy beaches for the oil to sink into. And "more quickly" is relative. So it'll be 20 years before the oil is mostly gone on the Gulf beaches, as opposed to the 50+ years it may take in Alaska? Will the wildlife recover faster, too? I really don't see your point. It's not like it's going to disperse in a week or a month. It's still going to be devastating and have long-lasting effects.

[closeupready]

93. Only reason I doubt that is because, as I was reading earlier,

the largest oil spill in history, in Gulf War I during which an amount of oil which dwarfs all other spills was released, had little long-term effect on the environment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_oil_spill

[intheflow]

109. Well, that's heartening to hear but

a) it was a shallow wikipedia article which only cited one study done a year after the spill;

b) the study was done by UNESCO and a cadre of countries including the US and Iraq who have a vested, economic interest in continuing oil production;

and

c) more recent studies conclude that there is still a lot of oil residue, and in some areas, there's been no recovery at all:
http://www.researchplanning.com/pubs/The%20Gulf%20War%20Oil%20Spill%20Twelve%20Years%20Later-%20Consequences%20of%20Eco-Terrorism.pdf
http://www.uni-regensburg.de/Fakultaeten/phil_Fak_III/Geographie/phygeo/downloads/barthcoast.pdf

[Doremus]

106. The oil is still there, a few inches or feet under the surface.

I just saw a docu about it. They scuffed their feet into the pebbles on the beach and there was the oil.

[Cronus Protagonist]

4. I think I'll be making my own reverse osmosis tank

Breathe the oxygen and burn the hydrogen..............

[glitch]

5. I got nothing.

Other than the wise graffiti from Argentina (Sarajevo?) when they were going through a very tough period:

Save despair for better times.

(IOW despair isn't all that useful, FURY on the other hand can be very productive)

[flamingdem]

76. If we don't use the FURY then something FAR WORSE awaits us nt

[glitch]

90. Yes - and we are already seeing it.

We've had plenty to be furious about for decades, very little has changed and very few have been held accountable.

[ensho]

6. there isn't anything hopeful to say - all we can do is watch and try to

clean up what we can, which won't be much.

I wouldn't get pregnant now.

[BeFree]

7. Are you married?

We could move in together and lay around the shack til the milk train comes back.

The oceans have dealt with oil escapes and evolved.
The biggest problem I see is that the world's creatures are going to have a hard time adapting to these rapid changes and will be killed off. Humans are one of the world's creatures.

In a million years this will be like a blip. And then the milk train comes back.

[damntexdem]

8. Everything will be all right in the morning.

There: empty words to soothe us all.

Meanwhile, this may kill Obama's capitulation on offshore drilling -- assuming the environment doesn't kill us off first.

[sandnsea]

9. There have been spills this bad

http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/historys-10-most-famous-oil-spills/

The ixtoc spill in 1979, a blowout just like the current one, put 140 million gallons of oil into the gulf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtoc_I

[BeFree]

14. This bad?

You know what's going to happen and you can already make a judgment?

One thing different is that the Ixctoc rig was in much shallower water and most of the oil floated on the surface and was easier to contain.

This rig now was at 5,000 feet bsl and the pressure of the water is making the oil mix. Its what is called emulsification. It will not be easily contained. It will not evaporate. It has become entrained in the water column.

[sandnsea]

19. Actually I give people credit for the ability to think

And know that clearly nobody can predict the future.

As it stands today, it looks as if this will be something like ixtoc. Very very very bad, but something we can recover from. Learning from it is an entirely different story.

If something further develops, then new judgments have to be made. Duh.

[BeFree]

28. Did you even read my reply?

Did you see me lay out the differences? 'Just as bad' is a stupid thing to think. It is not like Ixtoc.

[HughMoran]

15. Ironic that IXTOC when the letters are rearranged spells TOXIC

Let's hope that nature can take care of this mess better than we can.

[Lucky 13]

16. Oddly, the most comforting thing I've heard so far....

Maybe we aren't all going to die. Just the turtles, birds, and dolphins...

Still... makes me sick and depressed.

[sandnsea]

29. They airlifted turtles in 1980

An island where the babies grew up was going to be hit so they flew all the turtles out of there. I think the biggest problem now is the pure stupidity and denial of people. I read yesterday where the MS Marine Resources Director, a PhD, said they were just going to let nature take its course. We didn't have that kind of stupid in 1979, at least not in charge of anything. That's where we're really going to see some suffering, followed by blank faces and "who could have predicted". That's the part that makes me sick and depressed. We'll go through this, and learn nothing.

[barbiegeek]

10. This is WORST man-made disaster EVER it's bigger than Chernobyl & 3-mile island combined

[BlooInBloo]

43. Not to interrupt the "game over man GAME OVER!" fest, but I think people in Hiroshima

and Nagasaki might argue otherwise.

[KansasVoter]

55. +1

[Kablooie]

11. Eventually it evaporates, at least.

[tosh]

12. I am trying very hard to maintain a state

of denial...numbness. At the same time, I wait each day for NOAA to release its graphic of the daily spread.

This is, literally, my back yard that will be slicked over WITHIN DAYS. It is only the weather conditions that have held it at bay for this long. Our wondrous bay, our playground that we share with loggerheads, scallops and sea urchins, eagles and ospreys...

[Lucky 13]

18. I am so sorry.

It's a loss. Like losing a person. A friend.

I wish for denial or numbness right now. It would be better than this.

[LynzM]

86. So sorry, Tosh...

I cannot imagine the heartbreak. I am an ocean-loving creature, as well, and I cannot imagine... :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Captain Hilts]

13. And what is Britain doing to help us deal with their oil spill? nt

[CountAllVotes]

20. Britain is in denial

as usual. They don't care to pay for their shitty broken rig in the Gulf. It isn't near them nor does it affect them except for the BP stock. Screw them. They hate America I guess. :grr:

[Captain Hilts]

24. This should be an issue in their election.nt

[truebrit71]

98. Are you fucking mad? What does this have to do with Britain or Britons?

This is a global corporation that answers to no-one but their share-holders, and certainly not to the British public.

I understand that one of the stages of grief is to lash out, but let's make sure the anger is directed at the correct party's yes?

[havocmom]

17. So long as corporate profit$ always trump taking care of the planet we depend on, no light at all

Sorry, but greed will destroy us all. Doing a pretty good job lately too.

[greenbird]

21. Sorry I can't help.

This is one of those cases where the more you know about ecological systems, the worse this looks. I'm sick and scared right along with you.

[Forrest Greene]

22. Please Consider

...that the planet really will be better off without us.

[Lucky 13]

26. You are right about that.

I hate us. We suck.

[liquid diamond]

73. Morbid as that sounds I agree. Humans are the most

dangerous creatures on the Earth.

[Forrest Greene]

99. Morbid ...?

Maybe, I suppose, depending on your point of view.

For me, the idea that we Humans will eventually render the planet uninhabitable for our species is one of the few environmental issues that inspires in me anything resembling traditional notions of "hope."

I really can't hope we'll keep on the way we're going --- we all know where that will lead. I really can't hope for a technological solution --- technological solutions are either co-opted to serve the systems which originally created the need for them or they are suppressed. I really can't hope humanity will grow wise --- it's been quite a few millenia & we still haven't found a better way to organize life on Earth than following the whims & greed of charismatic psychopaths.

We spread like locusts, foul our own nest, & constantly fight among ourselves. We are doing a terrible job, & seem highly unlikely to change for the better.

I hope for a quiet, peaceful, green planet with clean water & clean air, running along just fine on its own natural processes. There's your perpetual motion machine, if you want one. If I had a button to push that would simply vanish Humans, I often do think I would push it --- for the greater good, y'know?

Sadly, it's not going to happen quite that easily.

[Zoeisright]

23. Really, for the first time, I am afraid.

Perhaps the 2012 Mayan calendar isn't a myth after all.

I'm being facetious, but with this, climate change, and the honeybees, the future isn't looking good at all.

[KayLaw]

25. The dome might work?

It's not much but it's the best I've got. I'm truly depressed about this myself.

[barbtries]

27. i'm not a scientist

but would still urge you not to give up hope. it is a huge catastrophe, a disaster for sure. but i do not believe that it signals the "eminent demise of our planet." a big hit, yes, but i am confident that our planet will be around for probably at least another million years in spite of this spill.

[Lucky 13]

34. Yes the planet will no doubt be around...

... but will it just be a giant oil covered rock?

[TheKentuckian]

35. The rock can withstand a lot. The macro level life isn't as sturdy

Will this one be "the big one"? Probably not but there is some level of damage that the ecosystem is not able to absorb quick enough to avoid a mass extinction and if we don't stop moving in that direction then we will find that line and life as we know it will pay a heavy toll, maybe a toll life can't survive and we turn this rock into another Venus.

It might be eventually be okay but it is not going to happen by magic, we're going to have to make systemic changes or kill many species in route to die ourselves. We can't keep just shitting in the ocean as we hamper its ability to absorb CO2 and play havoc with the food web.

This is not trivial stuff and no there is nothing more serious going on. If we continue to fail there will be a price to pay well beyond policy, civil rights, equality, civil liberties, or even the wars that kill a relative few.

[yowzayowzayowza]

30. The earth has produced far werce by itself:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x245045

At least no methane release from the spill.

[zipplewrath]

31. Crunch the numbers

How many gallons of water are subject to potential pollution. What is it's rate of evaporation and replacement. What is the total rainfall, world wide, each year. What influence will the melting glaciers and polar ice caps have on those quantities? They have found living organisms in some of the harshest locations on the planet. What evolutionary changes will occur in sea life in these regions to adapt them to the new conditions? How will the oil ultimately be distributed around the world? Will it "pool" anywhere in particular?

There are more questions than answers. There were predictions that if Saddam ignited everyone of his oil wells, we'd be at risk of a "nuclear winter" from the ash that ascended. He ignited every well, and there was no nuclear winter. The earth is rather resilient. It will change, but it probably won't be catastrophically. Better learn to eat meat though, or go vegetarian.

[DatManFromNawlins]

32. How'd you get through school without basic mathematics?

[Lucky 13]

36. Excuse me

I didn't claim there was enough oil to pollute ALL of the water in the oceans and I didn't perform any such math in my post.

The point was, a very small amount of oil can pollute a very large amount of water. It's more toxic than people realize. If this keeps spewing, no one knows how much oil will be released or what the impact will be. But we know it won't be good. It's just a matter of now "not good" it will be. Even if it just kills a significant portion of marine life, it could have a serious impact.

Why you gotta be an ass?

[KansasVoter]

33. Lets not panic until we know the end result!

[ClarkUSA]

37. "BP official: 'We've significantly cut the flow' of oil from damaged rig"

'Jeff Childs, a deputy incident commander for BP, said in a briefing with Alabama officials that the company successfully shut a set of hydraulic shears known as annular rams, helping to clamp the ruptured pipe and block the leaking oil.

"We've significantly cut the flow through the pipe," Childs said at the Mobile briefing hosted by U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Tuscaloosa... Officials also said as BP is preparing a system never tried nearly a mile under water to siphon away the geyser of crude from a blown-out well a mile under Gulf of Mexico waters.

BP officials said they hope the system could collect as much as 85 percent of oil rising from the seafloor.

The plan to lower 74-ton, concrete-and-metal boxes being built to capture the oil and siphon it to a barge waiting at the surface will need at least another six to eight days to get it in place, with weather also a factor.'

http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/bp_official_weve_significantly.html

[druidity33]

57. Bullshit. nt.

[Mojorabbit]

80. Bp says this is not so. nt

[ClarkUSA]

88. BP spokesmen do seem to contradict each other. It's hard to get good info on this now. n/t

[Mojorabbit]

108. What I read is that

some news organizations were reporting a partial cap, ie Fox but the BP spokesman said not so. It is difficult to get information for sure.

[deacon_sephiroth]

38. once more from the top...

The only thing I keep telling people with any hint of positive spin is that we can only strive to make the world wiser in the wake of it. Like a child learning from it's mistakes, all you can do is stay armed with knowledge, arm all those around you, and in the end try to leave the world a wise more mature place.

And stop freaking out, it's not going to do anything, your stress and blood pressure won't close the hole in the ocean.

[followthemoney]

39. Not to worry.

All animals change their environment over time and new species evolve to live in and love the new environment that the previous species made uninhabitable for themselves.

Earth did not always have an oxygen rich atmosphere. This atmosphere was created by the anaerobic bacteria that changed their environment by spewing the waste oxygen that destroyed the oxygen-depleted environment they required to survive.

The wasteland of one species becomes the paradise of the one that follows it. Some of us are aware of what is happening to the earth we love, but that doesn't mean the blind animal forces we impart to the earth are changeable over long periods of time.

If we were a species capable of acting in our own self interest, war would have become obsolete long ago.

We are smart, but not that smart.

In a few million years time, a geological blink of an eye, the evidence of our disastrous stewardship of the earth will be gone and so will we. All of our disasters are but a tempest in a teapot. Every single person alive today will be dead in little over one hundred years. All of the billions of people alive today will be dust.

Relax. All is temporary.

Earth will survive nicely without us.

[LynzM]

87. Yeah, that's pretty much how I have to think about it, too.

In the long run, nothing we do really matters. People say "earth will survive"... of course it will, it's a big piece of rock. Until it gets hit with some other rock, or burned up, or whatever. Everything is temporary. Small comfort, some days, but you take what you can get. :)

[hvn_nbr_2]

40. But hey, look on the bright side.

Big Predator (BP) has limited liability and the CEO will get a gazillion dollar bonus. After all, what's more important, the number of digits in greedsters' bank accounts or all life in the oceans?

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tavalon]

59. Damn it, I took you off ignore

Don't make me regret it!

[ima_sinnic]

70. ...

too funny! I did exactly the same thing, and would say the same here.

[grantcart]

44. There is only one possible upside

That with the federal government focused on the problem four things can happen.

1) it will spur a manhattan style effort for renewable energy.

2) it will spur the US to sign the Law of the Sea treaty and develop an international response requiring minimum safety protocols for all off shore rigs (Brazil is currently installing hundreds on new fields).

3) new technologies will be developed to take oil out of the ocean

4) hundreds of millions will be spent on researching the health of the ocean including the effect of the Ocean absorbing CO2.

Thats all I got.

[FailureToCommunicate]

95. Gotta agree with grantcart. And only add that getting involved (if not already) with

an environmental action group of some type WILL help feelings of bleak powerlessness. At least for a while.

Good luck.

[JuniperLea]

110. Agree... and if this doesn't kill us...

It will make us stronger.

[pundaint]

45. I must totally disagree - this isn't a presidency issue

Hoped that diverted you from us being completely fucked for a few seconds.

[freddie mertz]

46. It looks bleak indeed.

Stupid humans destroy their own world.

[northernlights]

47. they've been able to close the annular ram and slow down the flow

today. If they can now also get the shear ram to close, they will shut off the flow completely. Suddenly there is a possible end to the gush in sight...and soon. If they can shut the damn thing off, then all effort can focus on cleanup.

[marshall]

48. Life will go on, it always does

Everything changes. Sometimes we witness big changes, but most often it is little changes.

[gorfle]

49. Here's what I wonder.

I agree that this oil spill is a big deal.

But I keep wondering.

During WWII German submarines sunk countless tankers full of fuel. Yet life went on.

What is different?

[intheflow]

63. A fuel tank only holds so much fuel.

It's tiny compared to this well which has access to and is leaking god only knows how much raw oil.

[gorfle]

72. Tankers hold many thousands of gallons.

[intheflow]

75. The largest tanker today holds around 170 gallons.

That's a supertanker class developed in the '70s. The WWII tankers were smaller, in the 130,000-150,000 gallon capacity range. And they didn't blow up clusters of them along coastlines for days on end.

This leak looks to be gushing at least 200,000 (conservative estimate) a day, from one location, going on day 14 now with no end in sight. You figure it why this is so much worse.

And those sunken WWII tankers are still causing environmental damage in the 21st century: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14645-paradise-island-threatened-by-wrecked-wwii-oil-tanker.html

[namahage]

78. 170? Missing a few zeroes there, I think. n/t

[intheflow]

79. 170 million.

Damn spell check for missing whole words that are supposed to be there! :P

[Enthusiast]

51. And it is criminal

Dick Cheney's fault. He is most responsible for this. And he should suffer for it.

[Teaser]

52. only possible upside

is an awakening of consciousness similar to that which occurred after the Exxon Valdez.

But is that worth the complete desruction of several distinct ecosystems?

Doubtful.

[Sky Masterson]

53. I reeeeeaaaaaaaaaaally wish GD:P allowed Copycats

Somebody. Anybody. Talk me up. :hide:

[Jennicut]

54. This could be on the level of the Gulf War Oil Spill, which is on record as the worst ever.

The Gulf War oil spill is regarded as the largest oil spill in history, resulting from actions taken during the Gulf War in 1991 by the Iraqi military.

It caused considerable damage to wildlife in the Persian Gulf especially in areas surrounding Kuwait and Iraq. Estimates on the volume spilled range from 42 to 462 million gallons; the slick reached a maximum size of 101 by 42 miles (4242 square miles) and was 5 inches thick. Despite the uncertainty surrounding the size of the spill, figures place it 5 to 27 times the size (in gallons spilled) of the Exxon Valdez oil spill, and more than twice the size of the 1979 Ixtoc I blow-out in the Gulf of Mexico.

According to a study sponsored by UNESCO, Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and the United States, the spill did little long-term damage. About half the oil evaporated, a million barrels were recovered and 2 million to 3 million barrels washed ashore, mainly in Saudi Arabia.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_oil_spill

Now that is bad.

[WonderGrunion]

56. I'm tired of "talking people down" on DU

Just fucking jump already.

[tavalon]

60. Could you grow a heart please?

That was an inhuman thing to say.

[WonderGrunion]

68. Grow a heart? Inhuman?

The OP is having a case of online hypochondria, they aren't literally on the ledge of a building. Stop giving more importance to the concern trolls than is necessary. Every fucking day there is some nervous Nelly asking to be talked down because they don't have enough faith or conviction to believe in our president or our party. The only place they are going to jump is back to some independent party or their GOP paymasters that pay per post to stir up shit on liberal boards.

[nashville_brook]

85. talked a lot of people down, have you?

[FailureToCommunicate]

94. (thanks, nashville, for the first laugh out loud of the day! And on such a serious thread...)

[nashville_brook]

97. :) my work is done.

[Martin Eden]

61. It's not the "demise of the planet"

It is horrible.
It will kill a lot of animal and plant life.
It will despoil beaches, wetlands, and a chunk of ocean environment.

But ...
The earth is billions of years old.
During that time continents have been recycled and ocean floors have been lifted to the height of Mount Everest.

This is a minor blemish in the context of geologic history.
Planet Earth and the living things upon it will survive this horrible mess.
Eventually there will be no trace of it.
Long after we are gone, Life on Earth will endure.

[Bonobo]

89. +1

100% right.

[MissDeeds]

64. We are killing this planet from within

Greed, excessive consumption, and disregard for the ecosystem are chipping away at it bit by bit, day by day. The evidence is all around us.

[wiggs]

66. Isn't one of the major extinction events tied to change in oxygen levels? As I

remember, large mammals had a very rough time of it during that event. Aren't the oceans already changing faster than some of the ocean life can adapt? Isn't water ph changing, making it more difficult for shellfish to make shells? Aren't some ocean waters nearly bereft of life? Haven't some fishing areas collapsed already? Hasn't California lost 95% of its wetlands and haven't other coastal areas, on which many species depend for habitat and food and reproduction, seen similar declines? And we throw petroleum on some of the remaining important habitats?

I know this isn't exactly what you were looking for. I'm glad you posted and hope many read it and understand what a delicate balance there is on earth and how much we depend on a specific set of conditions in order to live. While the earth and some kind of life is certainly durable, the plunge downhill as a result of declining conditions is an unpleasant thought. Already, there are billions on the verge of disaster who live every day on one side or the other of basic sustenance levels.

One volcano can change our climate. An earthquake can change the length of a day. I don't personally know if one gusher in the ocean can change ocean life...but I know we've already heaped many insults on the oceans and waterways and atmosphere. There's already a lot of damage...with permanent effects unknown. Breast milk in Eskimos toxic enough to be considered toxic waste? Remember that?

I'm willing to believe that this DU environmentalist is giving us a more accurate picture than our corporatist government and our corporatist journalists. Thanks for your post. Heads up everyone. Be skeptical of what we hear. Remember that what we heard about Iraq, Fallujah, etc wasn't close to reality. They try hard to keep us in a happy distracted bubble and it wasn't just the RW nuts in office. Tune in to BBC and see if their reporting is any different.

[CLANG]

67. Sorry, I got nuthin

I'm not very optimistic right now.

[marlakay]

69. I don't have your education and feel as sick as you do

I couldn't believe on Huff Po even dems were saying that the cost of gas will go up if we stop drilling offshore....it was like people are stupid. They actually think this can just poof go away~!

I feel horrible about it and all the other things companies are allowed to do in the name of almighty greed. Why is it people don't care anymore about nature? Is everyone so stuck in their FB and IPods and Texting they can't look up to see what is outside?

[liquid diamond]

71. I'm sorry I have nothing to say that would comfort you.

I'm not very conscious when it comes to the environment, but this has been bothering me for days.

[XemaSab]

74. The best-case scenario

is that this could be this generation's Exxon Valdez.

This could usher in a new era of environmentalism.

That is the only silver lining I see.

(And yes, I am a birder and I have done oil spill cleanup. The silver lining is on a big, nasty cloud. :( )

[flamingdem]

77. Why don't you commit to trying to stop drilling? Action helps nt

[workinclasszero]

81. We are fucked.

Hey we could've all been driving electric cars like twenty years ago but the oil companies in collusion with GM and others no doubt killed it. So now we have an ocean full of dirty, stinking death dealing oil to pass on to future generations.

If there is any future generations. Personally I think mankind is way to stupid, self-centered and greedy to survive much longer. The earth will heal itself eventually and non suicidal forms of life will take over.

But mankind? Yeah we are killing ourselves and the only planet that we can survive on for a dollar profit. A race as stupid as we are will get what we deserve.

[Duer 157099]

82. Kicking so I can read this tomorrow and maybe find some hope n/t

[Hekate]

83. As Joe Hill said when strikers were killed, "Don't mourn, organize!" Action helps the soul

There's a place for grief and mourning and tears, but we can't let it bring us to despair and hopelessness. Yes, grieve for our beautiful planet, then rise up and find your strength again.

This current situation, brought to us by Saint Ronnie, GW Bush and Deadeye Dick Cheney, will crush many spirits. Don't let it crush yours. We need you. :hug:

Hekate

[FailureToCommunicate]

96. I was just about to post similar advice...but not as well written.

[glowing]

84. Yep, my degree is Marine Science/ Environmental Science.. AND this is bad.

There's a reason we call the Gulf the "salad bowl".. Its so vital and has been under attack already with overfishing, shrimpers trawling the bottom, degredation of wetlands and marshes for development and natural ebbing, the "dead zone" that appears every summer, the increase in red tides.. Its already been a fine line of screwed over for so many years.

This oil gusher is tops the cake on an already abused ecosystem. Its like the drunk coming along and pissing in the salad bowl.. now who can eat it?

[Ganja Ninja]

100. I think the warmer climate (compared to Alaska) will help the recovery but we're still talking

decades. I've seen a smaller oil spill in the Tampa area before. The light crude will evaporate and the heavy sludge that's left will slowly dissipate, mix with sand and settle to the bottom. It turns into something akin to roofing tar at first and over time becomes like asphalt as the more volatile stuff leaches out. (That's where the warmer climate helps.) Once it settles to the bottom it can be picked up by dredges. Eventually whats left of it will get buried by the shifting sands. It will recover but probably not in whats left of my lifetime.

[boppers]

101. One quart in 250,000 gallons? Uhm, no.

If you have horridly bad information to start with, no wonder you're freaking out.

[truebrit71]

102. Can you provide the back up to that? Not being a snark just want to see..

..where you are getting your information from as the 1:250,000 alarmed me as well..

[Lucky 13]

103. What is your information?

What information do you have on this? What is the ratio that you have?

No snark... Honestly, I'd love to hear different numbers from different sources if you have them. I'd love to be wrong.

[namahage]

104. Wouldn't that be 1 part per million (ppm)?

Or the equivalent of four drops of oil in a 55-gallon drum of water?

[Lucky 13]

105. **SOURCES WITH LINKS**

Just a few sources I could find easily:

U.S. EPA
"An estimated 180 million gallons of used oil is improperly disposed of annually (Alameda CCWP, 1992), and just a single quart of motor oil can pollute 250,000 gallons of drinking water."
http://cfpub.epa.gov/npdes/stormwater/menuofbmps/index.cfm?action=browse&Rbutton=detail&bmp=112

Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC)
"A single quart of motor oil that seeps into groundwater can pollute 250,000 gallons of drinking water."
http://www.nrdc.org/water/pollution/gsteps.asp

From the Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection
"Oil and petroleum products are toxic to people, wildlife, and plants. One quart of motor oil can pollute 250,000 gallons of water, and one gallon of gasoline can pollute 750,000 gallons of water!?"
http://www.mass.gov/dep/water/resources/oilspill.htm



What are your sources?

[boppers]

107. None of those links back up your original claim.

The words "pollute" and "toxic" mean two very different things.

Pollute: An amount significant enough that it can show up on tests.
Toxic: The dose is high enough to cause harm to an organism.

Toxicity varies by species, here's a sampling of different papers on it:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Toxicity%20of%20Crude%20Oil&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=ws

A reasonable-ish benchmark number (taking into account more sensitive species) I'll suggest would be around 4,000 quarts (1,000 gallons), for every 250,000 gallons of water. This toxicity point, of course, varies by species, concentration depth (surface oil affects birds more so than oysters), etc.