The President is Not Listening...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

Not to us, anyway.

Just who is he listening to, anyway?

The military types that want to see the war (and their profits and their promotions)go forward, that's who...

I don't know who else supports him in this madness...And do not tell me it's not a done deal: It IS.

I am so angry and upset at his Afghan decision, I could just spit.

IF he runs again, I will vote for him, albeit reluctantly...

But this may be his Vietnam, as that was for LBJ.

And we all remember what happened to him, don't we?

I sure do.

God damn it. I did not want this.

War is not the answer.

[derby378]

1. Not to mention that he wants the government to keep snooping at public libraries

No, I am not happy right now with Obama, either. We wanted change, and we're not getting it.

[blm]

2. I agree with your voice and will add that Bush's failure as a military leader certainly made all

of this so much worse for this nation and anyone who even tries to 'fix' the problems. I would prefer Obama 'expose' the problems and the illegal conditions behind the problems first, as the exposure will go a long way to help the fixing that needs to occur....wisely.

[optimator]

3. Obama told us "violence doesn't solve problems"

I agree with him , which is why I disagree with his decision.

[RoccoR5955]

4. I may go to West Point tomorrow, to the protest.

There WILL be a protest there tomorrow. 5:30 p.m. in Highland Falls, NY. At the park on Main St. Be there and be counted!

http://activistnewsletter.blogspot.com/

[Clio the Leo]

5. You're right, he HAS been listening to military types.....

... and military-family types.





To not support his decision is fair criticism.

But to suggest that the man who, personally, writes letters of condolence to the family members of the fallen does not fully appreciate the impact of his decision is not fair at all.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

11. You make a good point.

Maybe I'm not being fair; when I'm angry, it's hard to be fair.

He certainly does appreciate the things military families go through. BUT he's not allowing that to factor in to the decision he's made about Afghanistan.

And there is the wrong thing. We are still going to send more troops. I am opposed to this.

[Clio the Leo]

14. He did this at 4am...........

.... and by 9am, he was back in the Oval Office with an Afghan strategy meeting on the agenda.

His long, "dithering" delay on his decision started that day.

Again, if you are opposed to the war, that is your priority.

But to say that he is NOT counting the ultimate cost of warfare in his decision is COMPLETELY inaccurate, IMO.

[kiva]

58. So the bodies of soldiers are sacred to you...

but the bodies of the four cops who were killed are just good news for the next election? You are a hypocrite, and a disgusting one at that.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

61. +1

That post was disgusting. As long as it helps Obama then I guess it's okay, it is beyond unbelievable.

[kiva]

70. I thought it went way over the line.

There are a lot of ways to discuss the impact of the event on Huckabee's political career that are inoffensive - most people on that thread did exactly that - but gleefully pointing out that these four deaths were a good thing for Obama was inexcusable. I doubt that our president's first thought was "Yippie, good for me!".

[Bluenorthwest]

13. You look at graves, mourning family and a politician

and shout that the issue is being fair to the politician? Wow. A thought that would not cross my mind looking at those pictures, to be honest with you. Graves hold the dead, the living clearly have a more 'fair' deal than they do. I'd rather be alive and subject to 'unfair criticism' than dead. How about you?

[MissDeeds]

31. +1

[LooseWilly]

71. Something is always revealed in one's perspective...

Quite the insight you caught there...

[YOY]

6. I suppose theres something to laugh at from all of this though...

I mean ...these assholes still think he's lefter than Lenin...



I wish I could laugh at them...but it's pointless anymore.

Just a little laugh for the bad 'stache'...teehee.

[Ken Burch]

75. Is that the Orange County Choppers guy?

n/t.

[BeFree]

7. You care

You care that under our name, for reasons not really explained, our military might will cause harm to many more innocents.

Maybe Obama has some really good explanation for the decision he is about to make. But how can we know?

We know what our decision would be and we wonder why can't our president see what we see, and understand, and act likewise.

These are terrible times for people who care. For those who couldn't give a damn, there is no remorse.

[FrenchieCat]

12. There are many of us who do care,

but still don't see it the way that you do.

Personally, I think you know that.

[Deja Q]

8. What if he's trying to make up for Buhs's own indolence toward the OBL issue?

Even in 2002. Two thousand and TWO. Not even half a year since saying he'd stop at nothing to get the guy responsible, Bush says OBL no longer interests him.

Despicable.

I'm going to trust President Obama's judgment on this.

And like I responded to Michael Moore's rant on Huffpo earlier, I ask the same to anyone blindly against this war: If you became president, saw the information President Obama got, what would YOU do? There are MANY possibilities and real journalists would answer every nuance. (But, like Limbaugh, Moore is just a debate-driven entertainer and trying to stir up things by being one-sided. Real journalists have to acknowledge both sides. Debaters are allowed only to use the side they are on, as opposed to thinking all points of view. )

[Myrina]

38. ... if getting OBL is Prez O's mission ...

... he'd need about 2 drones, a couple paid-off local informants and a team of sharpshooters, not 35,000 foot soldiers.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

63. Even though I am dead set against escalation

I will be listening to his plans for an exit from Afghanistan. I hope he mentions OBL in his speech as well.

[FrenchieCat]

9. The president is listening to us, and deciding what he will do

We knew this was coming; and it is now here.
We can explode starting a month ago if that's what we choose,
and work against making this happen, although it will.

Than we can vote this non perfect President out of office in 2012,
and get another non perfect President in there in his stead.

Those are our choices.

However, I see an end strategy in the horizon,
a President who knows he will be held accountable in the end,
and who encourages debate from every which sides....

That's change,
and even if isn't going to mean Peace in the World as soon as we would like it,
it is a giant step in a better direction.

Using the analogy of building a house with bricks made of shit...
Obama is having to deal with a situation that has already been there for years.
He didn't start this war, and he probably doesn't want to continue to fight it as is,
and so he is doing the smart thing;
laying the groundwork in order to make the circumstances there better
for any future decisions, including ending this war that was authorized long ago
by every member of congress excluding one.
So right now, it is his responsibility to do what he believes under the present circumstances.

What he won't do is come up with the magical perfect solution that pleases everyone,
and that's not even his job. His job is to take those shit bricks and build that house,
and do the best job possible considering that when it gets warm, the house will stink,
no doubt about it, and he will be told he stunk it up, regardless of where the bricks came from.

So because he damn well knows at the end of the day, he will be held responsible,
and since that will most definitely be the case, he might as well do it his way....
then at least when you vote him out, it will be based on his decisions,
not the decisions that were forced on him by those who will run out of the way,
if and when the shit hits the fan.

All in all, I will hear what he has to say on Tuesday,
or else that would make me hypocritical
as I would be the one guilty of not listening.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

15. I will listen to him tomorrow.

And I said I will vote for him in 2012.

I really admire and respect him, and I know he has tough choices to make.

I still see this choice as wrong.

Thank you for your very well-put post. You think well, and logically, even under pressure, and I respect you for it.

[avaistheone1]

16. There is evidence that the president is not listening to us.

I will post more about that when I get back. I have an appointment at the moment.

[FiveGoodMen]

10. In a nutshell, that is it.

The right wing is crazy, of course, but our main problem is just what you said: The President isn't listening.

Neither is Congress.

We do not have representation.

Our government has been stolen. And yes, the D's are in on it.

[MissDeeds]

32. Indeed

"The President isn't listening...We do not have representation." You summed up my feelings precisely.

[NICO9000]

17. I sure hope he has an endgame plan for this debacle

He should have fired Mc Chrystal for a start. It's too bad our government (and us too) can't accept the fact that this occupation has been botched for a long time now and sending more people to die for nothing is a terrible idea. It's painfully obvious to me that all these phony "wars" are just another way to keep the old military-industrial complex hummin' along while everyone else gets fucked.

Very sad. I realize I won't support Obama all the time, and I do think he has done a lot of good already, but this is a disastrous move on his part. And like Michael Moore said, if he thinks this will satisfy the Rethugs, he's dreaming.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

18. I hope he does too...

If he does, that will go a long way to help me accept this escalation.

I agree with your post.

And BTW, Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[spiritual_gunfighter]

64. Keith's point last night about Pat Tillman was dead on

How can you trust a man that lied outright about the death of Pat Tillman and then tried to frame the Afghanistan issue by giving his own troop numbers recommendation in public?

[polichick]

19. He sure isn't listening to Democratic voters or Joe Biden...

He told the troops in March that he'd never send them into danger unless it was absolutely necessary.

By no stretch of the imagination is this absolutely necessary.

[girl_interrupted]

25. That's what I don't undertand..why not listen to Biden?

Presidents may listen to voters or not..but your own Vice President? That I do not understand one bit.

[polichick]

27. I don't get it either, but David Plouffe wrote that the veep choice was a toss up between...

Biden and Bayh so maybe it just had to do with pulling in certain voters.

[girl_interrupted]

28. I hope you aren't right... but I'm afraid you are

I really respect Joe Biden, I think he has a lot of experience in foreign relations. I think he has the better plan. I just couldn't figure out why Obama wouldn't listen to what he has to say. But, I think you might be on to something there. Thanks for responding, I was completely bafffled by the whole thing & you cleared it up for me. I wish I could say it might me feel better...but it sure doesn't. Thanks just the same!

[polichick]

30. I really respect Biden too - here's something you'll probably remember:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=JoeBidendotcom#p/u/14/wbOa989IRYw

[girl_interrupted]

34. OMG! I remember! "Joe is Right"

All of the candidates agreeing Joe was right! And you know what? He still is! LOL! Thanks for clip, I enjoyed it!

[girl_interrupted]

35. Also check out this post on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x26579 I think she has hit the nail on the head why we are going to war!

[unc70]

56. And read Greenwald's article on Bayh and health insurance

GG ripped into Bayh yesterday at Salon. A related thread is near the top of the Greatest here at DU. If you haven't read it yet, you should.

[Blue State Blues]

20. War IS the answer!

if the question is, "how can we bankrupt the treasury, leaving no funds for domestic programs?"

if the question is, "how can we kill and maim our soldiers leaving their families grieving and their communities suffering?"

if the question is, "how can we destroy international goodwill?"

if the question is, "how can we inflict untold suffering and uncounted deaths on civilian populations?"

if the question is, "how can we enrich profiteers?"

if those are the questions, war is the answer.

[newblewtoo]

22. Sadly what you say rings true for me

I been thinking along the same lines for some time now, wondering if I made a mistake in the primary.

[Skittles]

21. getting it now, Ms. Peggy?

better late than never I suppose

[CaliforniaPeggy]

23. My dear Skittles...

What point am I supposed to be getting?

Sorry, I'm not understanding...

[Skittles]

24. he is not listening to us

we the people

[CaliforniaPeggy]

26. Ah, I see...

And you know I'm getting it.

I've been unhappy for some time about some of his stands...

I just haven't been very public about where I stood, or felt.

[Skittles]

29. I voted for Obama, and I do not hate him

I just want better from him

[CaliforniaPeggy]

33. Me too...

[vaberella]

36. Well after KO's news...I don't know about your statement above.

This is what happens when people are running on speculations and conjecture and not waiting for information. However tomorrow we'll find out more and see if KO's statements are true...which I think they might be considering alongside the statements there will be troop increase there is also an exit strategy.

[girl_interrupted]

48. KO's statement : "Get Out Now"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34209743/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann

[arcadian]

37. K&R

[BeyondGeography]

39. Oh stop...it's totally asinine to equate Afghanistan with Vietnam

:thumbsdown:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

40. Oh, is it?

I came of age then.

How about you?

Of course, they're not entirely the same; I would not say they were.

But they're both quagmires.

[BeyondGeography]

41. Then you should know more Americans died there in two bad weeks in1969 than in the last 8 years

in Afghanistan. To suggest that Afghanistan will have even remotely the same or similar impact on Obama as Vietnam did on LBJ is absurd.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

42. You are correct about the numbers of casualties...

As for the rest of my analogy, time will tell.

[kwassa]

44. It is not asinine. The great similarity of Afghanistan and Vietnam is this:

In both situations we are/were attempting to prop up a completely corrupt and un-viable government that lacked strong popular support, and opposed by a competent insurgent force.

That is an impossible war to win.

We can't make Karzai viable. The secular governments of Afghanistan is now and were invariably corrupt. The Taliban, while reactionary, were not and used to have popular support. It is a lose-lose proposition, all the way.

[girl_interrupted]

47. Agree

Not to mention the cost, when the country is already in debt. The whole thing is just insane.

[BeyondGeography]

49. Again the numbers don't add up; an expansion of 30K troops is not 300K troops

While some of the bare facts are similar, the scale of this conflict does not put it in the same conversation as Vietnam in terms of its political and human impact here at home.

[girl_interrupted]

50. Not to be rude...

But how do you know, what's going to happen there? Or how much it will wind up costing us? Or how many soldiers and civilians will eventually be needed, or die or be wounded, I know that probably doesn't bother you, cause what the hell..you're safe at home. But lets face it you don't, and the fact of the matter is, no one does.

When you get involved in a conflict anything can happen. And we have seen enough of death and dying and debt to last us for quite sometime. To add more, just doesn't make sense, especially when we are in an economic downturn.

But it's not for me to say. This is Obama's war now. He had the opportunity to use other choices, including one given to him, by his own VP. He chose not too. And so it goes.

[kwassa]

53. the total number will be about 100,000 Americans in Afghanistan

and the bare facts will rule the outcome, regardless of numbers.

[jeanpalmer]

43. Where are the meetings with the poor Afghan families

that he has bombed? Not one meeting. He's wrapping himself up in the military to make this crazy decision more palatable. What a phony. He reminds me of Bush - Bush similarly used the military as props.

He looks like he might have lost his mental bearing. I've concluded he is completely unfit to be president. Won't be voting for him again. He totally lied to us about who he was.

[girl_interrupted]

45. CaliforniaPeggy Don't feel bad, Obama isn't listening to Biden either

Imagine how he feels? All that experience, plus a son who served. Biden had a plan that did not include escalation. I would have preferred that. And I'm not buying it's because Obama is "keeping a campaign promise", when he hasn't kept others.

Not a happy night.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

46. Well, of course, you're entitled to your opinion.

However, I think you're wrong.

Did he say he would meet with Afghan families? I don't recall...

And there's no way in hell he's anything like Bush. You have not been paying attention.

His support for stem cell research, and his reinstating support for clinics overseas that teach about birth control and abortion are just two areas, big areas, where he differs wildly from Bush.

Vote for whomever you wish. But remember the Republicans stand against many of the ideas we back.

[democrat2thecore]

51. On issue after issue after issue after issue... I might add. -nt

[donheld]

52. "you got to dance with them what brung you"

Seems to me, as soon as he got to the dance he ditched us.

[Hawkowl]

54. Let him be LBJ and not run again

If Obama continues on the same path, I'll will be happy for him to step aside and not run in 2012. Maybe THEN, we can get a 21st century version of FDR, Truman or RFK.

[Garam_Masala]

55. His generals, CIA intelligence, and his advisors eom

[QC]

57. Peggy, if you keep talking this way you will *never* be invited to join the Pep Squad. n/t

[treestar]

59. The military types?

They had to go to war when Bush told them to. There's no point in just slamming them. Geez, the right told us we had to support the war or we were somehow against the troops. Now I find that if we don't support the war, we get to or have to slam "military types?"

I don't want this either but I don't expect the POTUS to listen to only me.

[JoeyT]

66. Well, some things have changed.

Now we get to have Democrats tell us that unless we support a war 100% with no questions asked we're unpatriotic and don't support the troops. Funny how that works out.

[bvar22]

60. He hasn't been listening since Day 1.

65%+ opposed the No Strings Attached Bailout of Wall Street.

65% support a viable Public Option "like Medicare".

[Dinger]

62. K & R Peggy. I Agree, War Is Not The Answer (nt)

[Vidar]

65. K&R.

[Orsino]

67. I'm sure that he's listening...

...and that too damned few of us are demanding withdrawal. America may not like war all that much anymore, but are terrified of walking away without a victory.

[EffieBlack]

68. Maybe he's listening but just doesn't agree with us?

And, based on the information he has, thinks that a different course of action is advisable?

[Blue_In_AK]

69. Happily recommended, Peggy.

I'm right there with you.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[goldcanyonaz]

73. Umm, Obama said during his campaign "Afghanistan, not Iraq, should be focus"

I really don't understand why so many here are shocked at his sending more troops there.

"Obama has made Afghanistan a centerpiece of his proposed strategy for dealing with terrorism threats. The Illinois senator has said the war in Afghanistan, where Taliban and al-Qaida-linked militants are resurgent, deserves more troops and more attention as opposed to the conflict in Iraq."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25757560


I don't get all the shock and disappointment posts.

[glitch]

74. The military types are owned by the same people who own Congress, half the

USSC, and the Executive Office.