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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 04:51 PM
Original message
Poll question: Will the domestic terrorists of the Tea Party, and those who are openly inciting them to
(Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Faux Noise Channel) openly vandalize, threaten, and outright assault elected officials and their relatives, succeed in hurting or killing someone before action is taken against their movement?



We all know these types of actions were not committed by Liberals despite the previous administration being outright war criminals, and yet, it appears their actions are being downplayed until the unthinkable happens. The gas line that was cut could have killed four small children.

Also, Eric Holder & the FBI should have words with people like Michelle Bachmann, Dick Cheney, and other former and current office holders and inform them if they don't tone down their anti-govt, anti-Obama rhetoric they may be held accountable.

Their movement is more like a bowel movement, and they need flushed before they succeed in hurting one or many Americans.

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sarah just told them to "reload"... my goodness, they need stopped.
Edited on Wed Mar-24-10 05:23 PM by Divine Discontent
and put rifle crosshairs on the map showing their location





I voted no in my poll in hopes they will do something about the drumbeat of anti-govt talk by those with a far-reaching voice, like Palin, Limbaugh, or Beck.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. The vast majority if those stupid and arrogant bastards haven't broken a law...
I may not agree with what they have to say.
But I will defend to the death their right to say it.

If they break the law, arrest them, try them, and send them to prison.
If their leaders foment rebellion, then arrest them, try them, and send them to prison.

But if all they do is continue to prove what monumental ignorant assholes they are, we should do nothing about it.

I am far more upset with the media, that has not actually exposed them for what they are.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. do you believe the tea party leader who posted the brother's address should be imprisoned if he did
in fact post his address and tell them to make their complaints 'personal'?

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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. They did the same thing with abortion doctors. This is not new.
If they can trace a direct link from that doufas to the act of malicious vandalism, then he should be charged.

As I understand it, the way he said it protects him. He did not say cut the line to their propane tank and light a match.

What he did is fundamentally wrong. I'm just not sure whether inciting a crime is illegal.

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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. People encouraging a crime
are breaking the law. That's why they can arrest people who egg on rapists and who encourage others to hurt or kill someone. There are plenty of cases where the bystander who encouraged the actual crime is charged.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. And there are many cases when they are not...
Edited on Wed Mar-24-10 05:26 PM by Ozymanithrax
Egging a rapist is a physical assault. Someone who puts an address up on their site and say "drop by and tell them how you feel" is one ugly son-of-a-bitch. But, there is a lot of wiggle room in the law,and he did not actually communicate a threat and will say so.

The OP asked, "Will the domestic terrorists of the Tea Party, and those who are openly inciting them to (Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Faux Noise Channel) openly vandalize, threaten, and outright assault elected officials and their relatives, succeed in hurting or killing someone before action is taken against their movement?"

Please note, the question did not ask if the people that make those threats should be dealt with. It asked about taking action against their movement.

I don't believe it is right to take action against an entire group because some of them are vile ignorant dirt bags who break the law. I don't believe in communal punishment, considering it a crime against humanity. A few years back, about 600 Muslims, as I recall, disappeared, rounded up by the Bush administration because they might or might not be Islamic terrorists. That was wrong. It would be equally wrong to do something about the Tea party movement.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. heywood J posted this ---


(Domestic terrorism - influencing government policy by threat or violence) http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec ...
(Conspiracy to attempt the wounding/killing of a Congressman) http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec ...
(Criminal solicitation) http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18 ....
(Harassment by computer) http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18 ....

And, last but not least...
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18 ....
18.2-186.4. Use of a person's identity with the intent to coerce, intimidate, or harass; penalty.

It shall be unlawful for any person, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, or harass another person, to publish the person's name or photograph along with identifying information as defined in clauses (iii) through (ix), or clause (xii) of subsection C of 18.2-186.3, including identification of the person's primary residence address. Any person who violates this section is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.


-------------------

I think it will fall on the FBI, Holder, and Obama to make the decision about what is going over the line and start the arrested of some of these people who are encouraging violence. Palin telling her fans to 'RE-LOAD" and putting scope targets over the map where Democratic reps are who voted for health care in GOP areas, is borderline inciting. But it's not my job to determine that. But in regards to the Tea Party guy, I think there's enough of his own words to lay blame on him by saying "add a personal touch".
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Thank you...Since it is a crime, anyone that does this should be charged.
I can not accept doing something about "the movement" because of that.
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tledford Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-10 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. Correct. Wrong doesn't necessarily mean illegal. eom
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. A the guy posting that people should
break the windows on dems who voted for HCR? Those rocks were wrapped in death threats and other thinly veiled threats of intimidation. Do you defend that?

Saying liberals should be killed or representatives strung up has become a common occurance on the right. You think that kind of intimidation and bullying rhetoric is OK?
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. I don't defend it. If he broke a law, he should be charged, tried, and convicted.
You should reread my original comment. Most of the teabuggery party are stupid, ignorant, vile people. But they have not broken the law. Obama should not do something about them. That would be an act of tyranny. I've scraped things off my boot I respect more than these people. But those that have not broken the law should not be penalized.

What we are seeing now has been done for years against abortion doctors. They put up websites showing their addresses, photographs, and pictures of their children, and called for them to be killed.

I don't think their common use of the language of war and violence is acceptable. I don't think it is OK. But, as long as they do not break the law, they should not be punished. When they do break the law, they should be charged.

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greencharlie Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. best, most reasoned post... all day. nt
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. It Is Against The Law To Incite
R they inciting? I think so. But if not, they r awfully close.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Whether they are close enough to charge is a question for prosecutors...
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Did Anyone Indicate Otherwise?
n/t
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veganlush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. If everyone would call their Repugnants reps,,and Senators..
Edited on Wed Mar-24-10 05:11 PM by veganlush
..and demand that they come out and publicly denounce these tactics, wow, that would be great and would make news..(202) 225-3121
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. The problem with "the FBI should have words with people like...
Michelle Bachmann, Dick Cheney, and other former and current office holders and inform them if they don't tone down their anti-govt, anti-Obama rhetoric they may be held accountable" is that these people are so megalomaniacal and so paranoid that they would just see such action as more evidence of "government tyranny" and it would probably cause them to ramp up their rhetoric even further. In which case thy could be made to shut up, which they would just see such action as more evidence of "government tyranny" and it would probably cause them to ramp up their rhetoric even further, in which case they could be jailed for inciting violence, which they would just see such action as more evidence of "government tyranny" and it would probably cause them to ramp up their rhetoric even further...With people like it's never them that's the problem, it's always the other guy who's the problem.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. I understand how they have to watch how they handle them, but they cannot allow them to incite
violence as they are now doing so VERY well, and not do something. Do we just let them continue to do this for as long as they don't have control of DC?

I used to think exactly the premise you wrote, but, if they're actually now committing vandalism/violent acts, multiple times now already, then they need to start calling out these people, at the least, and say they are inciters of domestic terrorism with their words.

What they need is to get just even one of these known politicos in a situation that gets them approving of violence. We have already heard many GOP reps and senators backing away from saying too much negatively against the Tea Baggers.




Evil only wins when good people stand by and do nothing.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. They are no different from Mussolini's Black Shirts or Hitler's Brown Shirts
and if the GOP were in power, they would become the new SS.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. No, if the GOP were in power, teabaggers would be encouraged to crawl back into...
the woodwork with the other cockroaches. The GOP wants power and is not beneath using idiots and fools to get it, but they are not going to let these people have any real power because they are too stupid to be controlled.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. As a gun owner with a concealed carry permit ...
I am worried about the constant drum beat by the far right.

One incident involving a nut with a firearm attacking a member of Congress would cause new gun control laws which might be draconian.

Glen Beck is careful to say that he doesn't support violence or revolution, but his rhetoric might cause some "patriotic" wing nut to lose it. I doubt that he could be convicted of a crime as he is exercising his right to free speech.

While I strongly disagree with the message of Beck and the far right, I also fear a government with the power to silence those who disagree with government policy. Imagine what Bush the Junior would have done if he had the ability to silence critics.

I believe the most dangerous group in our country today is the anti-abortion crowd. They have demonstrated a love of violence.

Anti-abortion violence is violence committed against individuals and organizations that provide abortion.<1> Incidents of violence have included destruction of property, in the form of vandalism, to crimes against people, including kidnapping, stalking, assault, attempted murder, and murder, to crimes affecting both people and property, including arson and bombings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. The teabaggers have taken the methods of the anti-abortion crowd into the mainstream..
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-10 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
22. kicked for the unrec from an obvious Teabagger amongst us.
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nyc 4 Biden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-10 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. i unrec'd because op is assuming the violence hasn't started yet.
liberals have died as a result of the ratcheting up of the hate talk since we took back the potus.
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davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-10 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
23. Well but you still will have the Limbaugh's and Beck's encouraging people to do this shit
I honestly think the Dems should be targeting Bachmann's seat heavily and aggressively.

This reminds me of the race riots in the 40's during WWII. I'm currently reading Goodwin-Kern's book about FDR and it seems to me like Obama needs to take a little bit more heavy hand then he did in saying that death threats and violence will not be tolerated.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-10 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. hmm... interesting book I'm sure. I agree, the president hopefully has/or needs to get his staff on
high alert about these actions by Tea Bag party cult members who are willfully disobeying the law, and doing so because of the stoking of fiery anti-Obama, anti-govt, anti-health care rhetoric from the likes of some of the very people elected in govt (like the "you lie" guy and Bachmann).
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davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-10 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. I encourage you to pick up the book
Edited on Thu Mar-25-10 04:05 AM by davidpdx
It is No Ordinary Time by Doris Kerns-Goodwin. I'm about 3/4 of the way through it right now.

In the post above I got her last name backwards, I can never remember which one it is.
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nyc 4 Biden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-10 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
26. HELLO. THE VIOLENCE HAS ALREADY BEGUN>>>
- July 2008. Knoxville police Sunday evening searched the Levy Drive home of Jim David Adkisson after he allegedly entered the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church and killed two people and wounded six others during the presentation of a children's musical. Inside the house, officers found "Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder" by radio talk show host Michael Savage, "Let Freedom Ring" by talk show host Sean Hannity, and "The O'Reilly Factor," by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly. The shotgun-wielding suspect in Sunday's mass shooting at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church was motivated by a hatred of "the liberal movement," and he planned to shoot until police shot him, Knoxville Police Chief Sterling P. Owen IV said this morning.

- October 2008. Two white supremacists planning to go on a massive shooting spree in Tennessee, then to assassinate candidate Obama, were caught before they could act.

- January 2009. A white supremacist embarked upon a brutally violent killing spree in a Massachusetts suburb, targeting non-whites and Jews. He killed two immigrants and raped and shot a third. Police apprehended him before he could reach his final destination: a nearby synagogue in which he wanted to open fire.

- April 2009. A white supremacist, full of racist, anti-Semitic and anti-government conspiracy theories, ambushed and killed three Pittsburgh police officers.

- May 2009. An anti-government sovereign citizen and anti-abortion activist shot and killed a physician in Wichita, Kansas.

- June 2009. A rifle-wielding white supremacist entered Washington's Holocaust museum on Wednesday afternoon, fatally shooting a security guard.

and more that i have missed. ie the recent attachs on dem offices nationwide.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-25-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Oh, I agree, there's always been violence against us, I'm referring to the Tea Party, and anyone
directly affiliated with it, and saying will they, in their bloodlust over the Health Care bill (how could anyone be against this unless you're filthy rich and greedy), put someone in the ER or take a life before the WH makes a strong and clear act on this disgusting trend.

The church shooting is one of the more heinous acts, and that is due to the stoking of hatred from Limbaugh, Hannity, and Faux, and sadly, I realize it's hard for them to stop them, but if we hear violent threats we should report them.

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nyc 4 Biden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-26-10 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. 10-4. sorry if i came off snarky.
i'm just fed up with the msm downplaying rw terrorism in this country.

:toast:
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