"Spending Freeze" Is A Political Gimmick

[Beetwasher]

I personally think it's a brilliant move to get out ahead of the GOP.

The devil is in the details. If it turns out it is a real freeze, it will the be the stupidest thing ever. If it turns out, as I suspect, that it's a limited "freeze" w/ tons of loopholes and exceptions, then I think it's a great political maneuver. YMMV.

Taking a page out of the GOP "Clear Skies Initiative" playbook.

Yeah. "Spending Freeze". :rofl:

Cool.

[Clio the Leo]

1. It's a limited freeze....

.... Jarred Bernstein said as much last night on Rachel.

I cant seem to find the clip on her site, I can, however find a clip about haggis. :eyes:

[Jennicut]

4. It increases some good areas of the budget while decreasing some needless areas

I swear no one wants to really read what the actual proposal is. I want defense cuts as much as the next person but I really don't think this is a terrible idea.

[Tom Rinaldo]

15. That's nice

It always sound easy to cut out the fat until the scalpal is against your skin. With inflation it can be assumed that all areas of the budget increase unless they get frozen, so an increase is not always and increase, sometimes an increase in even a decrease if it doesn't keep pace with inflation. The net of all of this is that spending on government programs will decrease in constant real dollars, unless the freeze includes some kind of COLA, which hasn't been mentioned.

[Teaser]

29. inflation is dead right now

so for now, it ain't a cut. we'll see what happens next.

[Beetwasher]

22. Yeah, That's What I Thought

Pretty smart then. Get out in front and dare the GOP to oppose it.

[Oregone]

2. So, at best, its a gimmick?

At worst.....?

Does this president really need gimmicks? I mean, an administration who wont even play real politics and force a party to fillibuster is looking for symbolic gimmicks? Is this in any way defensible?

Is this really worth an OP? Why even waste your time defending it?

[Beetwasher]

5. Heh, Welcome To The World Of Politics

n/t

[Oregone]

9. Oh. I forgot. Chess master!

[Beetwasher]

12. Politics

[Oregone]

13. Super-strategergizing chess stroke! Hopefully this is as sweet as the HCR chess moves

[Beetwasher]

14. Boring

[Oregone]

16. Silly

Its getting beyond silly when you have to create the infallible chess master in your mind to defend your president. He is of course capable of no error, being that anything that can be perceived as such is an elaborate political maneuver.

[Beetwasher]

19. Stupid. Who Said Infallable? But To Deny There Is Strategy In Politics Is Idiotic

No one said he would always pick a winning strategy, but you have to be an idiot to think the President doesn't strategize or that the admin. doesn't partake in political maneuvers. In fact, you'd have to be a moron of epic proportions to think that doesn't happen. Especially if you're posting on a political discussion board.

What kind of stupid fucking moron could possibly think that a politician who was talented enough to become the first black President doesn't engage in polical strategy? You'd have to be some kind of mental midget.

Now, whether or not it's a winning strategy is another argument. But that's not your argument. You are idiotically arguing that strategizing doesn't happen. That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

[Oregone]

23. EVERY "failure" is a brilliant political maneuver that the masses are too dumb to see

It really creates the infallible man since all failure can be explained away

[Beetwasher]

24. Don't Change The Subject, Einstein

Do you deny that there is strategy in politics? If you do, then you are probably too dumb to see a lot of things.

I'll wait for a plan, and then see how it is implemented and wait for results before I pronounce success or failure. You? You can look in your crystal ball, Nostradumbass.

[Oregone]

25. Thats not the subject. Thats a distraction

Knowing that there is strategy in politics doesn't mean there is strategy in this move, nor that if there is, that strategy is particularly in your best interest. It still takes an act of faith to assume that each and every political maneuver has a hidden grand strategy that will be successful and ultimately promote one's own personal agenda

[Beetwasher]

26. That's Precisely The Subject, You Just Don't Read Or Comprehend Very Well Or

You're being intentionally obtuse. You hate Obama, that's clear, so you read everything in that light. You're hate is consuming you.

My OP was about this being a strategic move. Period. I think it's a good one. You think there's no strategy which is why you post your idiotic, unoriginal one-line snipes about chess.

[Oregone]

30. You aren't very good at this

The subject wasn't about whether there is strategy in politics, but rather, if this particular political move is a strategic "gimmick". Because I laughed at the real subject, you try and create a straw man, whereby I discount all strategy in politics (absurd). And when I call your BS, you resort to personal attacks and name calling?

You are switching subjects in an attempt to create a distraction, and throwing out insults. Its a tad ridiculous, on top of silly.

Look...you have no idea if this is really strategy or pure idiocy. Even if everything in your heart told you it was part of some grand plan, you again have no clue if that plan is even beneficial to your existence. In the end, to sit here and parade this with a smile on your face, you really have to swallow so many assumptions about this on good will, that you are will walking a tightrope across a logic chasm on faith alone. Sometimes, as much as you think people need to face that there may be more to the picture, you need to face that your picture has been liberally painted in with a whole lot of hope and a side of naive.

[Beetwasher]

32. Pathetic

It's all about strategy. Good or bad, that's opinion until we see results. It's moronic to think otherwise. But keep up your backpedaling!! :rofl:

[Cha]

43. Actually there are quite a few

and found all over the internet ..even on DU!

[gkhouston]

21. At worst, the words "spending freeze" could send the market into a panic and

give the banks yet another excuse not to make loans.

[WCGreen]

33. The trouble with your logic is you would be going after people in your

own caucus who would more than likely join the filibuster...

That's a huge public relations nightmare...

I caould here it now...

The democrats can't even get their own party to agree with their proposal.

[Oregone]

35. Maybe there is value to that

You know, letting the voters know where their Democratic reps really stand. As of know, there was so much capitulation and watering down of that bill, that many conservative Dems don't even have to engage in an up or down vote on a progressive measure. There is no benchmark for the people to know where they really stand, and therefore, no material for a more liberal primary opponent to use. Get them on record already.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

3. So you see through it as a political stunt but everyone else will fall for it?

[Beetwasher]

6. Yup

[Hippo_Tron]

37. Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people

[renegade000]

7. yeah, the problem is

The GOP can get away with their blatant dissembling because of the complicity of the MSM. I'd suspect if we'd try something like this, we'd be hearing non-stop "fact-checks" by the newly "investigative" media.

[Phx_Dem]

8. I agree! Sadly, too many Dems are too myopic to get it.

[Lerkfish]

10. its super secret hyperdimensional chess!

that's the ticket... and I"m married to ... Morgan Fairchild

[VMI Dem]

11. The chess....it burns.

Heh.

[Nancy Waterman]

17. Thank you Beetwasher

I agree with your post. I think the Obama team is trying to get out in front of the messaging wars, an area in which they have not been doing very well up until now.

[asdjrocky]

18. I'm starting to think this guy is all about the gimmick.

[emilyg]

46. You might be very right.

[realFedUp]

20. Previous President's scripts...

Frankly, instead of wondering what chess play is going on,
or what previous President's script ObamaRahm is following,
it would be so refreshing to see a President who stood
by what he said he would do and do it.

We hated Bush and his crimes, but he rammed through
stuff he said he would, any way he could. At least
people knew where he stood.

Obama's already used the Bush and Clinton
scripts. It's time he followed his own script...the one
he got voted into office with.

[depakid]

27. Even if you're right it sends all the wrong signals

It never pays to enable legitimize and reinforce the opposition's narrative.

Particularly when you've not developed and reinforced a coherent narrative of your own- but have instead managed to muddy the waters and associate your administration and party with some of the more "popular" groups on the political landscape.

[Beetwasher]

34. That May Be True

I can agree with that, that this legitimizes the oppositions narrative, but I could make a counter-argument that that's the landscape that he's already playing on. He's just using it against them by taking control of it.

Look, the fact is aside from us political junkies, no one really understands what a "spending freeze" entails or implies or consists of or how it's implemented. They only know they don't like "all this gov't spending". A lot of people will like to hear this and will have no idea how it's actually implemented.

Would I like it if Obama made a full frontal assault on the idea of spending freezes during a recession? Sure, that would be nice, but it wwould be a big ideological fight that might accomplish nothing. Maybe in the long run it could change the already existing narrative that "Deficits are bad, mmmkay!", but do we really want to engage in that fight NOW? Or should we just grab the narrative and get out ahead of the Repubs on this by seizing the language and using it against them? :shrug:

From what I'm seeing this is a political move and the freeze is limited. I can slam this as cynical or recognize that this is how the game is played. Good or bad, we'll see.

[centristgrandpa]

28. it's a small wonder why...

this presidency is consider soft, this concept is nothing more than football's prevent defence, and we all know what happens. Perplex is an understatement...sign, whats next...

[Enrique]

31. yeah, he's a closet progressive

just wait til he comes out of the closet, it'll be great!

[Democrats_win]

36. It truly is a "jump the shark" moment.

Gimmick or not, if you have brains, you MUST realize that Obama is a fraud. Can you say, "One term President?"

[Beetwasher]

39. Stupid

Eat brains. :eyes:

[high density]

38. Except the loophole is defense spending...

...which we already spend a near infinite amount of money on anyway. So we limit things like education and transportation while the same old crap goes on in the war machine. This is a lousy "gimmick" indeed.

[Beetwasher]

40. Nope

Lot's of exceptions. It's a "freeze" in name only. This is political cover and I think it may end up being a smart move. Maybe not, we'll see, but so far we have nothing to judge it on since nothing's been implemented and there's not even any details.. But that doesn't stop the idiots from pronouncing it a failure already.

[centristgrandpa]

41. nothing like...

spending trillions to kill, how about taking 1 billion out of militaryism and depositing it into citizens of America...

[amborin]

42. like "change you can believe in"

[blueworld]

44. Well if I understood what I heard on Rachel last night

The Prez wants the freeze to eliminate waste etc. however since it's the Congress critters that have to craft the budget there's a "danger" they won't give up their individual pet pork dollars. In order to keep those dollars, Congress could cut some other programs the Prez wants to keep.

I believe someone said that this would force those particular Congress Crits to publicly DEFEND their pork, which they may be reluctant to do. However if they're not held accountable (or if their home states applaud their moves) that could be a problem. Guess we'll just have to see how it plays out.

I'm more concerned with Krugman's points & he ain't happy.

[Beetwasher]

45. Krugman Is Playing His Role

I love Krugman, but he has his role. He's the pressure on Obama from the left flank. It's a necessary role and he plays it well. It's far too soon to pass judgement on the "freeze". We don't all have the details yet, but from what I've seen, it's nothing to go apeshit over.

[grahamhgreen]

47. Problem is, everyone knows it, and no-ones being fooled, and Obama ran against this kind of crap.