Anybody believing in the kind of "change" we're seeing? Since when?

[rateyes]

Since when the hell is 94% considered universal? And, since when are Democrats more interested in health insurance rather than health care? And, who really believes the Democrats have the cajones, the spines, or any other measure of character to stand up to the fucking blue dogs and pass REAL health care reform (change we can really believe in) by going through budget reconciliation?

Since when have we deemed it OK to have all troops out of Iraq by 2013 (after the next election) than by right fucking now?

Since when do Democrats think it a good idea to escalate the war in Afghanistan? We screamed like fire-breathing banshees when Bush wanted to "surge" in Iraq, and we were right, dammit. So, why aren't we screaming about Obama wanting to surge in Afghanistan? Is it because he's Obama?

Oh, and don't give me the "he's only been in office a few months" bullshit. He's been in office almost 25% of his first term.

Since when does news telling us that Gonzo won't be prosecuted for perjury before Congress cause us to yawn? Since when is it more important to turn a blind eye to crimes committed by our governmental officials for the sake of "looking forward rather than backward?"

Since when is it considered "justice" when that fucking corrupt asshole Ted Stevens let off the hook for crimes because of judicial misconduct, and Siegelman gets to rot away in jail?

Since when have Democrats become fucking cowards?

Since when have Democrats become fucking Republicans?

Since when?

[Aramchek]

1. I just talked to Obama. He said you can stuff your Concerns in a Sack, Mister.

[rateyes]

4. Yep. That's what I've been hearing from him.

Makes me angry that I supported him over Hillary.

[kid a]

22. * point of reference

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. Let me see if I'm understanding you....

Unless Obama changes *EVERYTHING* and most particularly *EVERYTHING YOU WANT*, he's a useless, worthless president?

You must be some magical human being! I'd like to see you as president. You'd be under the Oval Office desk hiding probably, worthlessly hiding, unable to change anything, incapable of moving things forward, and stopped completely by everyone's unwillingness to work with someone who has an all-or-nothing mentality like you do.

[rateyes]

9. Yeah. You got me. You're right...

I don't have the stomach for the job. I don't have the stomach for giving in to Republicans and not getting anything back in return. We've watered down the health bill, accepting "pro-life" amendments, a "public option" that only a minority will be able to "opt in" to, all for the sake of wanting to be "bipartisan" and we still don't get the support of any Republicans or fucking blue dogs.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

10. Of course you don't. You can't work with people. It's clear from the comments you make

You have no clue what compromise is. You'd be shut out of the job of president within 30 minutes.

[rateyes]

12. You have no clue about my ability or lack thereof to deal with people.

I make a very successful living "dealing with people" every day.

Compromise is a two-way street. You give a little, you get a little. We've done all the giving. We have gotten jack shit.

That isn't compromise. That's capitulation.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

13. Oh you don't have to try to convince me. I read what you wrote.

You don't know how to work with anyone. You would be in and out of the presidency in the bat of an eyelash. Presidents either have a dictatorship (like Bushit), or they have to work with people (like Obama). Compromise is vital to get things done. Unless you do things in the assholish fashion of our resident moron, GW Bush.

[rateyes]

17. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

Tell me, O wise one, with all that has been given away in the health care bill, what have we gotten in return?

And, you call that compromise?

The word is "capitulation."

[Sarah Ibarruri]

84. The word is, "infantile"

You're like whiny, crying, colicky baby. No solutions, just whininess and a dirty diaper.

[treestar]

27. If you are so successful then why don't you see the big picture?

Or even any grey areas?

I don't believe you when you say you are successful. You'd have to have a grip on reality.

You've made a summary in the OP of all the broad brush criticisms this site has had for the past 8 weeks. Every point you've made there has been debated repeatedly. Yet we're supposed to be impressed with the broad brush repetition?

Hillary would be doing much the same. Dennis would be making compromises - he'd have had to.

[rateyes]

40. And, I don't give a shit what you believe or don't believe about me.

I see the big picture. And, it's not pretty. And, no, I wouldn't rather have McCain. But, I will not temper my criticism of Democrats because they are Democrats.

As far as the past few weeks...I've been too busy to even visit the site in the past few weeks, so I have no idea what has been debated or not debated. I've been too busy teaching special education classes to 7th graders...dealing with people---students, parents, administrators, counselors---and, being successful at it, I might add.

So, you can take your "I have enough from one post to know all about you" attitude and have a nice day.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

29. I'm pretty sure we've got everything we need to know about your abilities. (nt)

[rateyes]

41. Uh huh.

Right.

[grahamhgreen]

59. We know when we are being screwed - wait till he escalates in Afganistan!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

87. Some people are never satisfied. It's either all or nothing nt

[rateyes]

3. Unrecommend it all you all fucking want. But, please, have the decency

to answer the question.

[treestar]

28. These questions have been answered repeatedly on multitudes of

threads - all your fellow negative nellies have been posting away like mad. And spoiled brats who think that the "bully pulpit" is all the President needs to get everything he (no, read, you) want.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

30. I wouldn't waste my time explaining it to you. (nt)

[rateyes]

44. That's OK.

I wouldn't waste my time listening to your explanation, either.

[pampango]

74. Won't waste my time explaining my unrec, then. Make up your mind, do you want an

explanation or not?

[Capn Sunshine]

73. OK. There's lot's of change

and there's lots more to go.
It's been 11 months, not four years.
Took us twelve years to get in this mess.
Your childish and impetuous take on politics is just that.

[dionysus]

89. i like it when people fill their pampers over unrecs

:rofl:

[msongs]

5. there's been some positive changes, there's a list going around here somewhere -

liberals/progressives are being shoved aside in favor of the conservative/republican light crowd that's running the show now. oh well, we were never promised a liberal or progressive agenda.

aim low and settle for less along with run left govern right are not my favorite strategies. oh well.

Msongs

[rateyes]

14. Aim low and settle for less...

that's the strategy I'm seeing.

:hi:

[liberal N proud]

6. The saying goes, when the republicans are in power...

they get everything they want and when the Democrats are in power, the republicans get what they want.


The Democratic caucus, like the Democratic party is so diverse they don't fall in line like the good little republicans do.


The Democratic party is a better example of democracy than the 2 party system.

[rateyes]

11. And, I'm not one that is falling in line behind

the Republicans getting what they want. That saying is the unvarnished truth.

[fasttense]

7. I think the Democratic party changed with Clinton.

Clinton did some very neocon things and kept selling out his liberal base with NAFTA, renditions, and not prosecuting Bush I or Raygun.

I think it's all that money coming from corporations (you know the meme that the Dancing Supremes have pushed "corporations are people too." and have a right to spend their money, their only voice, to buy politicians.) that have turned their liberal heads into red necks.

[pnwmom]

8. Since never. You seem not to have noticed that the health insurance vote

was completely divided along partisan lines.

[rateyes]

16. That's exactly what I noticed. So, why the hell do we keep giving

away stuff for the sake of trying to "bring along Republicans," and assholes like Joe Lieberman, Blanche Lincoln, Mary Landrieu and Ben Nelson?

They are STILL wanting more from us, and I'll bet you 10 to 1 that we'll those four assholes what they want for the sake of getting ANY bill to sign.

It's not about health care anymore. It's about party and politics.

And, here I was naive enough to think that "change" was going to occur.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

31. Without assholes like Lincoln, Landrieu, and Nelson, there's no bill to pass.

If you're that interested in politics, it would do you well to pay attention to them.

[rateyes]

42. I'm with Howard Dean on this one.

The Democrats will rue the day that they didn't do this through reconciliation. We are going to get a health INSURANCE reform bill that will do jack shit about health CARE.

We don't need Landrieu and those other assholes. We need a Majority Leader in the Senate with a goddamned spine.

[pnwmom]

76. Because the votes of the centrist Democrats are critical to the 60 votes needed

to bring anything to the floor of the Senate. So are the votes of the progressives. Every single moderate and conservative vote is critical because the Republicans are a monolithic mass.

[rateyes]

81. You don't need 60 for budget reconciliation.

Harry Reid just doesn't have the spine to do it.

[dionysus]

90. you can't pass the whole bill via reconciliation, only part of it.

[HughMoran]

15. How's life in utopia anyway?

:silly:

[rateyes]

19. In Utopia, it's great!

In America, it sucks.

[HughMoran]

21. Red Pill or Blue?

Oh, you chose the Blue pill. Oh noes!

[rateyes]

23. Not a pill...just hungover from

drinking the Kool Aid of "change."

[HughMoran]

32. So posting a pile of fantasyland horsepucky

makes you feel better? Hey, whatever floats your arc I suppose.

[rateyes]

43. I thought it was called horsehockey.

Questions though: Are you happy about 34,000 more troops to Afghanistan? Are you happy that we still have combat troops in Iraq? Are you happy about Gitmo?

Do you really think that the health care bill that the Senate is debating is going to lower health care costs? And, are you OK, even if it does lower costs, with 6% of the country STILL not getting health care? Were you actually in favor of universal health care? If so, then why aren't you upset that what appears to be coming isn't even universal health insurance?

Are you OK with the criminals in the Bush administration getting away with their crimes? Do you think Geithner deserves to keep his job?

Back before last November were you on here screaming bloody murder about this stuff?

If so, then why aren't you screaming bloody murder about it now?

I was. And, none of it has gotten any better since last November. We're still in Iraq. Gitmo is still open. Warrantless wiretapping continues. Those who approved of torture got away with their crimes. Blackwater continues to get government contracts.

But, hey, I should stop and remember that what I'm concerned about only amounts to





























horsepuckey.


























Now, I think I'll go back to fantasyland, where people actually care about the little things like war.



Peace out.

[HughMoran]

56. Only you can care about war?

So, if people don't line up and worship your miserable ass, then they are warmongers?

That's insane talk.

[rateyes]

64. Who is asking anyone to "line up and worship" my miserable ass?

Why aren't you screaming about 34,000 more troops in Afghanistan?

Sorry, but Obama promised to get us out of Iraq, too.

We're still there, and there hasn't even been any significant draw down of troops.

[HughMoran]

70. Just don't assume anybody who is defending Obama's decision to "do as he said he would"

is in agreement with his policy. I don't want the US to be in either of those hell-holes, but we are pulling out of Iraq (a good thing) and Obama is being VERY deliberative about his decision concerning Afghanistan - even though he knows adding troops will be extremely unpopular. I don't like his decision, but it's not a surprise and he never said he'd do otherwise. So, it sucks, but I'm going to grin and bear is as he has so many other irons in the fire to deal with.

[rateyes]

77. And, yet, would have grinned and borne it had Bush made the

same decision?

[HughMoran]

82. Did.

Nothing we on the left did had any effect on what he did.

[rateyes]

83. You didn't protest?

[rateyes]

55. So, you gonna answer my question?

[ClarkUSA]

18. Since when have you liked anything President Obama ever did or said? nt

[rateyes]

20. Go back and do a search for my postings when he was running.

Come and look at the bumperstickers on my cars that are still there a year later.

[ClarkUSA]

25. That far back? But when's the last time you approved of something PRESIDENT Obama did or said?

Anything?

Here's some "change" I believe in:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8730317&mesg_id=8730317

[HughMoran]

33. The answer is "never"

This is one of those "memorable" IDs that you never forget.

[ClarkUSA]

36. Thanks for the info. I'm still waiting for a specific reply.

:hi:

[rateyes]

37. I've approved of quite a bit. But, I will not settle

for expecting less of him or the Democrats in Congress than I did out of Bush. I was opposed to war then, and I'm opposed to it now. The Iraq war is illegal, and we should have been out by now. I'm for universal health care, and I'm still for it, and it pisses me off to see us compromising that away for the sake of INSURING 94% and giving away the store to the insurance industry. I'm against DODT in the military, and have expected the commander in chief to do something about it.

I expect leadership from our leaders--Pelosi, Reid, and Obama. I don't see that. Why the hell is Obama still trying to woo Olympia Snowe and the Joe Lieberman's of the world?

[ClarkUSA]

39. Such as?

[LWolf]

24. I don't support the change I'm seeing.

But then, having listened during the primaries, I didn't expect to.

I didn't expect anything better from January of '08 forward.

[FSogol]

26. Waaaaaa, Obama is not fixing EVERYTHING FAST ENOUGH for me. Waaaaaaa

:cry:

Let's see, Bush took 8 years to F everything up but, you're upset because Obama didn't fix it all in 11 months. Waaaaaaaaaa.

:cry:

[avaistheone1]

45. Well Obama is taking what is bad and making it worse.

He is no change.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

34. Fine, you want answers?

1) You were never promised universal health care.
2) You were never promised immediate withdrawal from Iraq.
3) You were never promised withdrawal from Afghanistan.
4) You were never promised prosecution of Gonzales.
5) The judicial system (NOT the Department of Justice) let Stevens off the hook. Since when does "Due Process" mean nothing to you?
6) They haven't.
7) They haven't.
8) Never.

You drank you're own kool aid. Don't blame everyone else that it turned out to be piss.

[HughMoran]

35. ...or as I refer to it - "fantasyland horsepucky"

I hate these disingenuous threads from posters who've never had a positive thought about a politician to begin with.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rateyes]

46. And, I hate responses from posters who don't take the time

to do research about whether or not another poster has ever had a positive thought about a politician to begin with, and simply declaring it as fact.

[rateyes]

52. Uh, yeah, he did promise universal health care.

Wanna bet he'll settle for 94%?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

62. Cite your source. (nt)

[rateyes]

63. How about whitehouse.gov?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/health-care

Make sure to watch up to and past the 1:07 mark in the video.

And, don't miss the part where the "public option" is only an option for those who don't have insurance. (No competition for the insurance companies for the rest of us---think that will bring down costs?) Riiigggghhhhht.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

93. The word "universal" does not exist on that page.

Nor does it exist in the video. Nice try asshole.

[brentspeak]

61. Were we promised the following? Yes or no

1) No insurance mandates

2) A true public option (not a 1.5% "public" option)

3) a NAFTA renegotiation

4) an end to the Cuban embargo

5) no lobbyists in the White House

That's Obama-made kool aid, which he distributed to the voting masses.

[rateyes]

65. The answer is "yes" to all of those questions.

And, I noticed the bold "no lobbyists in the White House." That didn't even last through the first round of Senate confirmation hearings.

[jefferson_dem]

75. This OP goes to prove...

The right wing has not cornered the market on wild-eyed delusion.

[Kitsune]

47. The unrec brigade is out in force now that you've dared to criticize Great Leader Obama.

For what it's worth I agree with you completely. I'm more angry now than I was when the Republicans were in charge.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kitsune]

50. This is twice I've been called a Republican for daring to have an opinion that differs

from the legion of unreccers who think Obama can do no wrong. This isn't Obama's Cult of Personality Underground, last I checked.

If I was a Republican, I'd be dancing for fucking joy at what Obama's doing. I'm upset with him because he's governing considerably to the right of where he ran in both the primary and the election. It's depressing to be sold completely down the river by the people you busted your ass to put in charge, so don't call me a goddamned Republican for being mad about it.

[jefferson_dem]

72. So the 90+% of Repugs who disapprove of Obama and the 90+% of Democrats who approve...

are ALL WRONG.

Wow. You seem to have everyone figured out. Good on you...

[rateyes]

51. Do you know it is against the rules to accuse another poster

of being a Republican? But, hey, I won't narc on you.

[rateyes]

53. Ah, well.

Who cares?

At least they keep kicking the thread.

:hi:

[Avalux]

48. I see you're part of the Instant Gratification crowd. n/t

[rateyes]

54. Thanks for the instant kick.

That gratifies me.

[HughMoran]

57. We see your gratification spewed all over this thread

:rofl:

[rateyes]

67. And, yet, you keep coming back for more.

:rofl:

[HughMoran]

68. uhhh

Hey!

:rofl:

[rateyes]

78. Again, thanks for the kick.

Looks like you are doing some "spewing" yourself.

[Desertrose]

58. Thanks, rateye...you make some good points.

FWIW, I rec'd it. :)

[rateyes]

66. Thanks, Rose.

[bongobobtherealone]

60. I'm not really happy so far

Like many, I worked my ass of to get Obama elected. I thought
that first and foremost, he would take us back to being a
nation of laws. I guess we are, but the laws only apply to
people like us, not the rich and powerful. As far as change
goes, having Gates still around is not change. Having Summers
around is not change. Appointing Mc Chrystal is not change. As
far as I'm concerned, anyone having anything to do with the 2
crazy, illegal wars we're in should be gone. Anyone who had
anything to do with the financial collapse should be gone. I
think Obama didn't really know (hope I'm right) that the
position of POTUS doesn't mean much in the way things work.
When we have a POTUS and congress that work for their
constituents and not G.E., Goldman Sachs, Haliburton, etc,then
we'll have change~

[rateyes]

69. Ain't it the truth?

And, welcome to DU! :hi:

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rateyes]

79. Now, now, Mr. Jefferson,

you know me better than that.

[branders seine]

80. 1992

[budkin]

85. Change is everywhere!

[colbertforpresident]

86. President rating

I'll give Obama a 4 out of 10. Bush gets a 1 out of 10. He's better than Bush but he leaves a lot to be desired.

[dionysus]

88. i like it when people blame the president for the way senators vote.

you act as if he's using mind control to make them not vote the way you want...

[rateyes]

92. I blame Senators for the way they vote.

I blame Harry Reid for not leading.

I blame Obama for sending more troops into the quagmire that is Afghanistan, and for his capitulation on healthcare.

Obama promised "no mandates" on healthcare, and criticized the hell out of Hillary for campaigning on mandates. Think he'll veto a bill with the provision?

[SHRED]

91. K & R