Chavez backs China govt

[Zorro]

<snip>

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez expressed solidarity with China's government on Sunday over the awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize to a jailed Chinese dissident.

He suggested the prize should not have gone to Liu Xiaobo, who has drawn praise from Western governments as an advocate of gradual political change without any violent confrontation with Chinese leaders. 'This (Liu) is like Obama, the other peace prize,' Mr Chavez said.

The Venezuelan leader criticised last year's award of the Nobel Peace Prize to Barack Obama, saying the US president didn't deserve the honour because his administration continues to engage in wars.

Speaking in his weekly radio and television program, Mr Chavez scoffed at his Venezuelan political opponents who praised the giving of the peace prize to Liu.

<snip>

More at: http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/World/Story/STIStory_589177.html

[bemildred]

1. Gee, who could have predicted this? nt

[Zorro]

2. Certainly Chavez' reaction is predictable

He's never hesitated to take whatever opportunity presents itself to declare himself an adversary of the US.

[BolivarianHero]

3. Even I'm beginning to wonder if the guy's going off the deep end...

Most of the people killed at Tiananmen Square were leftists, as are the people in Hong Kong who are fighting universal suffrage, a welfare state, and civil liberties (the conservative big business shits there back Beijing autocracy). Moreover, the Father of the Devil, Bush Sr., increased trade with China after the massacre.

Why is Chavez behaving so erratically? I'd expect this shit from Ortega, but not from Chavez,

[L Cutter]

5. Alliances

The same reason the US supports the barbarity of Israel.

[EFerrari]

6. It's not erratic. He was calling out the opposition's hypocrisy

for condemning China but remaining silent about US abuses in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"Con el Gobierno yanqui no dicen nada y aplauden la invasión a Irak y a Afganistán, donde hay niños huérfanos, hombres en cárceles, racismo, etc, sólo porque el Gobierno chino haciendo uso de su independencia y soberanía progresista contra el Premio", dijo.

http://www.telesurtv.net/noticias/secciones/nota/79715-NN/chavez-se-solidariza-con-china-ante-criticas-por-retencion-del-ganador-de-nobel-de-la-paz/

These stories always try to make him sound nuts. That's the point of them. There's always more.

[naaman fletcher]

8. No.that is false.

Yes he was calling out the US, as he should, but he actively supporting the chinese as well. It is/was possible to call out the US while not supporting the Chinese.

I am curious, where do you stand on this?

[ChangoLoa]

12. Except many many people in the opposition strongly condemned the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan

Double-edged.

It's consistent with his effort to present the opposition as the pro-American, right-wing camp. IMO, a typical move aimed at disguising his own hypocrisy concerning many of his allies (Belarus, China, Syria, Iran).

[EFerrari]

21. Did the right wing rags really editorialize against the Iraq invasion?

I'd love to see those articles.

[bherrera]

7. Money

Chavez is the recipient of Chinese loans. This is called real-politik.

I also put in doubt Chavez' credentials as a true socialist (this is what Heinz Dieterich wrote, that Venezuela is not ruled by socialists at this time). If they really had concerns about society and social welfare of the working class, then they would act to reduce inflation and crime, and improve the rule of law. The most helpless people in an economy with high inflation and in a lawless society are the workers and the poor. They have time to correct things and clean their own house, to make themselves a success, but their time is very short, and I am afraid instead they will be a Latin American version of North Korea, with extreme personality cult, well armed, and a failed economy.

[L Cutter]

4. Aren't we all

The problem is that the Nobel Committee lost the last shred of a tarnished credibility in Oct. 09, as the USA did long ago.

San Francisco members of FNB (Food Not Bombs) have been arrested over 1,000 times for their activism against homelessness and other social injustices

Nothing new there.

[bemildred]

9. FWIW:

Mr Chavez reaction is predictable because his situation demands it. Politically he is and has been under seige because of his economic/political agenda, and he has formed various alliances with other similarly situated countries in order to shore up and protect his position; China is the most important of those. He would gain nothing by siding against China, his enemies would not change their attitude.

His criticism of "political" Peace Nobels has some merit, however much we may like Obama or Mr Liu, but that is secondary. The peace Nobels are by their nature political, it is true, and it isn't a question I would want to fight about, but it is easy enough to see the point.

[EFerrari]

10. Yes. And what he always says in these situations

is pretty narrowly focused in favor of respecting the autonomy of these nations. Easy to see why he would take that position, too.

[naaman fletcher]

11. Nobody is dis-respecting the autonomy of these nations

The nobel committee did not challenge China's autonomy. Or, should we not make any judgements on Uribe's presidency out of respect for Colombia's autonomy?

[bemildred]

13. I think the Chinese government does see it that way.

They are quite upset, or at least putting on a good show in that direction:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/LJ13Ad01.html

To be clear, I don't care a fig if the Chinese government is upset, but they do seem to be. If I were them, I'd ignore the whole thing, play along, make nice. The fact that they are making such a fuss is an indicator of how insecurely they sit in the seats of power.

[naaman fletcher]

18. of course they do

I have learned from many years of life including marriage and divorce that most people are very defensive and see everything as an attack, bu that doesn't explain Chavez's defense of the chinese.

[bemildred]

22. No it doesn't, but it does show that he accurately perceives how the Chinese government feels. nt

[bherrera]

14. Autonomy to abuse citizens does not exist

Nations which sign the UN Charter and belong to the world community are not autonomous to abuse their citizens. The use of "autonomy" as an excuse to violate human rights is well known. Unfortunately the UN does not apply a just system to sanction violators, because it is well known Israel is a serious violator of human rights. But this does not mean the Chinese are not violating human rights, and this also means decent people around the world should admire the Nobel Peace Prize winner, Liu Xiabao, who is only advocating freedom for his people.

On the other hand, those who defend the abuse of human rights using "autonomy" as an excuse, know where they stand. I shall not say anything else.

[Bacchus39]

15. nice job n/t

s

[subsuelo]

16. who here defended human rights abuses? n/t

[EFerrari]

17. That's your strawman. n/t

[L Cutter]

19. straw men

The Nobel committee is making problems for China, and deliberately so. The committee is a political org with no more credibility than any other. I would like to read the document that got the fellow canned before making my final decision. But, I'll bet Chavez has seen it and I'll bet better than even odds that the same type behavior by a US citizen would bring the US government down on his head - determined to ruin his life by any and all means and methods available (many examples available). Nonetheless, the US government will use this prize, manufactured by it's ally, as a weapon against an important ally of Chavez, and try to use Chavez's support of his ally as a weapon against Chavez. It's natural and fine for us to chatter about such things, but we should be able to recognize, and say so, when we're being used as tools for a different, less honorable agenda.

[EFerrari]

20. I don't regard any pushback against the corporate media as chatter.

And as for Chavez, we should be grateful that he didn't bring up the FBI terrorizing peace activists (of all things) for alleged ties to FARC when our own forces are implicated in the mass graves now being discovered in Colombia.

[L Cutter]

24. Chavez has seen it

(manufactured by NED)

<clip>

The US State Department itself could have written a manifesto no more congenial to corporate and financial interests.

The Western press describes Charter 08 as a “manifesto calling for political reform, human rights and an end to one-party rule”,but it is more than that. It is a manifesto for the untrammelled operation of capitalism in China. If Liu had his druthers, China would: become a free market, free enterprise paradise; welcome domination by foreign banks; hold taxes to a minimum; and allow the Chinese version of the Democrats and Republicans to keep the country safe for corporations, bankers and wealthy investors.

The charter was published on the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Freedoms (UDHRF)... While the UDHRF endorses economic rights (the right to work and to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control), the only economic rights Charter 08 endorses are bourgeois privileges. In that respect, it is hardly in the same class as the UDHRF and, significantly, is emblematic of the kind of truncated human rights protocol favored in the United States.

Charter 08’s champions gathered 10,000 signatures before Beijing blocked its circulation on the Internet. While the Western media cite this as evidence of a groundswell of support for the charter’s demands (though 10,000 represents an infinitesimally small fraction of a population of one billion), the ANSWER Coalition in the United States has collected hundreds of thousands of signatures to letters calling for the lifting of the US blockade on Cuba, a level of opposition to US policy that dwarfs Charter 08’s support. Yet ANSWER’s collection of signatures in opposition to a policy aimed at promoting the interests of US capital is virtually ignored in the Western media, while a smaller movement that would benefit US capital is presented as having widespread backing.


http://gowans.wordpress.com/2010/10/12/liu%e2%80%99s-nobel-prize-for-capitalism/

[Judi Lynn]

25. Interesting point made by the author concerning the original elements of the Nobel Prize:

~snip~

Likewise, the Nobel Prize, founded by a Swedish chemist and engineer who amassed a fortune as an armaments manufacturer, is not free from politics. The Nobel committee, a five-person committee selected by the Norwegian parliament, has strayed quite a distance from Alfred Nobel’s original intentions. In his will, Nobel set out conditions for establishing and awarding the prize. “The said interest shall be divided into five equal parts, which shall be apportioned as follows: /- – -/ one part to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses.”

Sad detail, isn't it?

Thanks for posting the link.

[naaman fletcher]

23. clearly. great post. nt