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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 06:57 PM
Original message
Hands off Cuba and Venezuela!
Edited on Tue Apr-06-10 06:57 PM by Mika
Hands off Cuba and Venezuela!
U.S. imperialism out of Latin America!
http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=13893&news_iv_ctrl=1501

Socialist Cuba continues to be targeted by U.S. imperialism. The illegal blockade against Cuba remains in full effect and Washington doesn’t miss any opportunity to intervene in Cuba’s internal affairs. The gains of the Cuban revolution serve as a reminder that resistance and socialism are the only alternatives to capitalism.
In Venezuela, the revolution is advancing through measures to promote equality and socialism, and limit the power of the wealthy. At the same time, threats against the country by the U.S. and its allies in the region are increasing, putting the gains in danger.

Join us for analysis and discussion including:

Who are the “Ladies in White,” the “hunger strikers” and “dissidents” in Cuba, and what are their real goals?
The status and future of the U.S. blockade
Gains in Venezuela and how best to defend them
International Solidarity and the role of ALBA (Bolivarian Alternative for Latin America and the Caribbean)
What are the aims of the Obama Administration in Latin America?
2489 Mission St. Rm. 28, San Francisco
$3 - $5 donation requested, no one turned away for lack of funds.
(Refreshments served. Cross street 21st. Near 24th St. BART. MUNI #14, 49. Parking garage located one block west on 21st. St. btwn. Mission & Valencia, parking $2/hr.)



For more info contact PSL at 415-821-6171.

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The Party for Socialism and Liberation has a website filled with great political material from a Marxist perspective. On it, you can get news and analysis, breaking stories, learn about PSL events across the country, download audio and video and other political resources, find out how to get involved with the PSL and much more. Go to the website and look around, bookmark it and share it with your friends and family. Check http://www.pslweb.org/ each day for updated information and news. Make socialism a part of your everyday life!

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Foro y Discusión de Partido para el Socialismo y la Liberación
¡EE.UU. Fuera de Cuba y Venezuela!
Imperialismo Estadounidense fuera de América Latina
Viernes, 9 de abril, 7pm


Cuba socialista continúa siendo el blanco del imperialismo de EE.UU. El bloqueo ilegal contra Cuba se mantiene con toda fuerza y Washington no pierde oportunidad para intervenir en los asuntos internos de Cuba. Los logros de la revolución cubana sirven para recordarnos que la resistencia y el socialismo son las únicas alternativas al capitalismo.

En Venezuela, la revolución va avanzando a través de medidas que promueven igualdad y socialismo y limita el poder de los ricos. Al mismo tiempo, que aumentan las amenazas de los Estados Unidos y sus aliados en la región poniendo en peligro los logros conquistados.

Únase a nosotros para un análisis y discusión que incluye:

¿Quienes son “Las damas de Blanco” la “huelga de hambre” y los “disidentes” en Cuba , quienes son y cuales son sus objetivos o metas?
El estado y futuro del bloqueo impuesto por Estados Unidos.
Logros en Venezuela y cómo defenderlos mejor.
Solidaridad internacional y el papel de ALBA ( Alternativa Bolivariana para América Latina y el Caribe.
¿Cuales son los intereses de la administración de Obama en América Latina?

2489 Mission St., cuarto 28 en la calle 21
Sugerimos una donación de $3 a $5, todos bienvenidos, con o sin fondos. (Habrá antojitos. Esquiná de la calle 21, cerca de BART/24 St., MUNI #14, 49. El garage de parqueo queda en la calle 21, entre Mission y Valencia, $2 por hora.)

Para mayor información llame al PSL, en 415-821-6171.

Visite nuestra página web: http://www.pslweb.org
Del día y análisis desde un punto de vista Marxista.
El Partido para el Socialismo y Liberación tiene una página web llena de gran material político desde un punto de vista Marxista. En la página, obtendrá noticias y análisis, noticias del momento, y aprenderá sobre eventos del PSL por todo el país. Puede bajar audio y video y otros recursos políticos, encontrará información de cómo involucrarse con el PSL, y mucho más. Vaya a nuestra página web y explórela, márquela y compártela con sus amigos y familia. Visite http://www.pslweb.org/ cada día para información actual y noticias. ¡Haga el socialismo parte de cada día de su vida!

Subscríbese al Liberación y revise nuestro periódico bisemanal
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Vaya a http://www.pslweb.org/ para leer selecciones actuales y publicaciones anteriores y para aprender como subscribirse. Liberación es nuestro periódico bisemanal. Visite http://pslweb.org/ para leerlo y encontrar más sobre la lucha de la clase trabajadora.










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protocol rv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow
You are going to be really sore after the Castros lose power.
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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. I understand US intervention is bad
And the US policy must change ending the blockade and respecting sovereignty. But it is amazing that any group that questions and dislikes the Cuban system "must be paid employees of the US" and these groups that question Cuban ways are quickly demonized. In other words, the propaganda from both sides amazes me.

I know we are going get the flawed argument that the Cuban people are happy and all but it is easy to maintain this kind of order when anybody who can bring a different viewpoint is considered a danger who will rock the boat. Therefore, dissidents are demonized. Indoctrination keeps people happy as the population perceives a comfortable order. I've seen this in my own country with a right wing dictatorship that used the fear of communism to feed itself. US imperialism sucks but it is also a convenient tool to maintain the anti-imperialist authoritarians in power.
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protocol rv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Well written, my friend
US foreign policy does tend to backfire, doesn't it?

I have the fear our friend Mika is indeed a very intelligent individual, and knows very well you are right. But he is in Cuba, so I imagine he has to be very careful, and can't really discuss everything. Evidently he's not about to become a Yoani Sanchez.

I've come to the conclusion that, given the political reality in Washington, and the Obama's weakness in front of a neocon imperialist media, there's very little the man will do, other than cosmetic change. On the other side, I hear from my Cuban friends Raul Castro is really keen on starting changes, but Fidel is feeling better and won't let him do it. You know, if they were to start changing things to a more pragmatic socialist model, I would volunteer to go to Cuba and help them out. I would do it so they don't fall into the trap of becoming a US colony. But they do need to change.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-10 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. You must be proto's ditto head.
Edited on Thu Apr-08-10 07:06 AM by Mika
Like proto you keep repeating what no one has said here, in fact, what you are saying is in direct contradiction what many of us have been saying - that there is a vast difference between the US paid lackeys the RWers & MSM refer to as "dissidents" and the indigenous opposition parties that refuse the taint of US/foreign funding - and that includes leading opposition party heads, like Elizardo Sanchez, Oswaldo Paya, Eloy Gutierrez Menoyo - all of whom you (and the MSM) deliberately ignore.

Your words.... "... any group that questions and dislikes the Cuban system "must be paid employees of the US" ,,,"

No one has said any such thing. What I am saying is that the US bought-and-paid-for "dissidents", all who have a vested interest in hyperbole, exaggerations, and outright lies in order to maintain their funding streams are not accurate sources of information.

Your refusal to even acknowledge the native Cuban indigenous opposition parties in favor of the US & professional Miamiexile purchased "dissident" voices is highly suspect.

You must be proto's ditto head.







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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Sure,
Edited on Thu Apr-08-10 10:08 AM by Meshuga
there is opposition but are these groups allowed to campaign (I mean as a party and not as individuals)? Are they allowed to organize and participate in public political activities? What I mean is this: are they allowed to meet in large groups? Do they have legal status?

The whole “protocol rv’s ditto head” stupidity is just an attempt by you to cheaply personally attack and disqualify those who challenge the rosy picture that you like to paint around here. It is obvious that you and your friends are not able to question each other and then you have the nerve to call others ditto heads. Project much? :eyes:
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-10 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. 1st para q's: No. Yes. Yes. Yes.
As long as they are not aiding and abetting the self declared enemies of the state (on the payroll of US gov't or Miamicuban terrorist groups) anyone, any member of any party can run.

I don't disqualify anyone here. You anti Cuba-ists disqualify yourselves by constantly repeating known falsehoods, or implying them as in your post, or asking the same answered question over and over and over.

For your edification..

Here are some of the major parties in Cuba. The union parties hold the majority of seats in the Assembly.

http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/cu.html
* Partido Comunista de Cuba (PCC) {Communist Party of Cuba}
* Partido Demócrata Cristiano de Cuba (PDC) {Christian Democratic Party of Cuba} - Oswaldo Paya's Catholic party
* Partido Solidaridad Democrática (PSD) {Democratic Solidarity Party}
* Partido Social Revolucionario Democrático Cubano {Cuban Social Revolutionary Democratic Party}
* Coordinadora Social Demócrata de Cuba (CSDC) {Social Democratic Coordination of Cuba}
* Unión Liberal Cubana {Cuban Liberal Union}


http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/democracy.htm
This system in Cuba is based upon universal adult suffrage for all those aged 16 and over. Nobody is excluded from voting, except convicted criminals or those who have left the country. Voter turnouts have usually been in the region of 95% of those eligible .

There are direct elections to municipal, provincial and national assemblies, the latter represent Cuba's parliament.

Electoral candidates are not chosen by small committees of political parties. No political party, including the Communist Party, is permitted to nominate or campaign for any given candidates.



This doesn't stop candidates running for election from discussing their association/position with/in their party or the party's platform.

I have been in Cuba during elections and have seen this myself - plus what I have seen regarding this is affirmed by numerous observations by academics and regular folks.


You could read this book and learn the intricacies w/o going there if you are really interested in finding out, rather than continuing to mewl on about something you know little, if anything, about.


Democracy in Cuba and the 1997-98 Elections
Arnold August
1999
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968508405/qid=1053879619/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8821757-1670550?v=glance&s=books









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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. "I don't disqualify anyone here."
Edited on Thu Apr-08-10 12:44 PM by Meshuga
Um... Yes you do and virulently. Otherwise you would not have to resort to the type of name calling you use like labeling people as "anti Cuba-ists" when they question the Castro bros. and their rule. That kind of labeling is beyond ridiculous.

You should also note that your painting of a rosy picture and eager to disqualify others is just as highly suspect as those who paint the worst picture possible. I have never been to Cuba but your personal anecdotes are not consistent with pro-Castro friends of mine who have been there and believe the end justifies the means. In any case, the book is pricey for my standards but I purchased it anyway. I will check it out and I also hope to see what dissidents have to say about the process in the book.
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protocol rv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. It's mostly pro-government propaganda
if you see my follow up post, I took the time to research this Oswaldo Paya he mentions. It seems they've thrown the guy in jail several times. I also went ahead and looked up their constitution, it's legal trash, because it enshrines the communists and also gives them the power to punish and jail anybody who opposes them.

Finally, I went ahead and walked over to one of the Cubans who lives nearby. He told me to ask our friend to give us the name of anybody in the top layers of government, army, secret service, diplomatic service, or any other function who isn't a member of the Communist party. Those other parties he lists are meaningless.
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protocol rv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Oswaldo Paya - Some Stories about this Cuban dissident
First, I'm going to list a brief biography from Wikipedia:

1987 - founds the Christian Liberation Movement. calls for national reform and makes the Proclamation of the MCL.
1990 - The political police detain and threaten him with many years in prison if he continues to carry out his civil and peaceful struggle.
1992 attempts to run as a delegate for the National Assembly of Peoples Power but is completely rejected by the authorities.
1990 He drafts the Transition Program.
1995 He participates as one of the five organizers of the Cuban Council. He is detained by the police.
1996-1997 He drafts the Varela Project together with other members of the MCL.
1999 He participates in the drafting of the “All United” manifesto and proposes the first assembly of the opposition, which took place under intense repression.
1999 He receives the Homo Homini Award from the Czech foundation “People in Need” for his contribution to the defense of human rights.
2002 More than 11 thousand signatures backing the Varela Project are presented to the National Assembly of People’s Power in Cuba. The Dutch NGO Pax Christi hands in to the Vice President of the European Parliament, Alejo Vidal Quadras, close to 4,000 signatures that were collected in a dozen European countries in support of the “Varela Project” In October he receives the Andrei Sakharov Prize for human rights that is awarded by the European Parliament
--------------------------------------------------------

This is a statement by Paya about repression in Cuba

"Agustín Cervantes García, one of the leaders of the Varela Project in Santiago de Cuba , was sentenced to two years in prison in a trial of which he was not informed until the moment when police escorted him into the courtroom. To understand how the Cuban government, its courts and its repressive security forces could so blatantly violateall basic citizens’ rights, one needs only to know the context and sequence of events.

1. In December 2008, Cuban State Security forces enter the apartment of Minervo Chil Siret, a leader of the Varela Project in the province of Cienfuegos , while he was away from home, stealing lists of several thousand citizens who had signed the Varela Project and were awaiting verification.

2. In September 2009, Oswaldo Payá Sardiñas, coordinator of the Varela Project, visited various provinces in the country, including Santiago de Cuba, to continue promoting the Varela Project and meeting with various representatives, including Agustín Cervantes. State Security forces followed and harassed them.

This time, as per usual, the government reacted against the report condemning the repression of victims with more repression, and tried to silence the victims through more lies and more terror. On September 28, Varela Project organizer Augustín Cervantes was detained in Contramestre, Santiago de Cuba . He had already been detained and harassed before, and they had even sent an agent who tried to kill him.

We have warned about this general repression against citizens, who have only used their constitutional right to present legal initiatives. Everything indicates that the Varela Project is a recognized and preferred way for citizens to demand changes and rights that the people want, and which is denied to them by this Government. This is why the Varela Project campaign will continue, until we achieve these rights for all Cubans. Signed Oswaldo José Payá Sardiñas - Coordinator of the Christian Liberation Movement and of the Project Varela Havana , September 29, 2009"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what the head of the Cuban national Assembly has to say about the Varela Project (from a USA today column):

"Alarcon said there is no provision in the Cuban constitution that permits people to petition a vote on a constitutional amendment. Backers of the petition drive are attempting to merge — and misinterpret — several unrelated articles of Cuba's governing document"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cuba's Constitution:

"ARTICLE 5. The Communist Party of Cuba, a follower of Martí’s ideas and of Marxism-Leninism, and the organized vanguard of the Cuban nation, is the highest leading force of society and of the state, which organizes and guides the common effort toward the goals of the construction of socialism and the progress toward a communist society"

"ARTICLE 62. None of the freedoms which are recognized for citizens can be exercised contrary to what is established in the Constitution and by law, or contrary to the existence and objectives of the socialist state, or contrary to the decision of the Cuban people to build socialism and communism. Violations of this principle can be punished by law."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My comment: This constitution was written by communists, and it refers to "the law" quite often. In other words, it's a fairly toothless constitution because it pretty much gives the state the ability to write a law which can strip away rights - and the Constitution is thus silenced. Notice how they say the Communist Party reigns supreme, then they follow it up with clauses which say anybody who opposes the Constitution can be punished by law. So they are free to write laws to punish people who oppose the Constitution - which of course they use to persecute people who do want change to a different economic system.

I could not find articles which contradict what Alarcon is saying. They wrote a fairly airtight constitution which pretty much gives them a free hand to do whatever they want, and jail anybody who opposes them. As a constitution, this is a piece of legal trash, it enshrines the right of a small group of oligarchs to rule the country as they see fit. For those of you who complain about Honduras' constitution, I suggest you first read this piece of trash they use in Cuba, and focus where the problems are more acute.

It appears, given this text, and the reality of the government's behavior, that Cubans who want to kick the Communists out will have to either force a Constitutional convention, or give up. How they force a Constitutional convention is up to them.

I am increasingly cynical when I see so much pro-Cuba posting by people who then turn and attack Honduras and Colombia. They are all flawed societies and governments, and merit criticism as a group.

All of us should be honest enough to scatter our criticism in all directions, and not allow ourselves to become lackeys of the state, or of institutions which control our statements because they control our wallets, or our lives. We need to learn to be free men and women, and never allow them to silence us, or direct our thoughts.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R! Thanks for posting, Mika! nt
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-10 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. K. & R. Thanks, Mika.
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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protocol rv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-10 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. This is a good thread
Come on, let's keep up the banter :-)
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-10 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. You need one of these ...
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-10 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. And ruin a perfectly good tape loop? Here. This will amuse him for hours.
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