How is Obama's tax compromise and unemployment extension going to ruin your life?

[Pryderi]

I'm curious, because some of these threads and comments make me think that your hair's on fire.

[whistler162]

1. I assume that on January 1st the world will stop revolving

and we all fly off the earth into the vacuum of space!

[Cant trust em]

5. hahahaha. nt

[okieinpain]

72. some type of fluid just came out of my nose. n/t.

[Hello_Kitty]

2. If it leads to the unraveling of SS, it could very well ruin my life. eom

[Lord Magus]

9. That makes about as much sense as wingnuts saying health care reform will lead to death panels.

I'm sorry, but it's true.

[Hello_Kitty]

11. I'm sorry but you need to educate yourself

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/obamas-tax-holiday-a-pois_b_793526.html

[HuckleB]

26. That is one misguided comparison.

Time will tell what will happen, but it is possible that the GOP will use this "temporary" cutback to wedge this toward big changes in SS.

[Egnever]

49. Perfect!

:applause: :woohoo:

[Bluebear]

56. You need to do a LOT of reading on the subject.

I'm sorry, but it's true.

[PSPS]

3. For one thing, it's the first step in the dismantling of Social Security

[Justitia]

Amen. -eom

[treestar]

7. Where is this insane idea popping out from?

[Lord Magus]

12. Good question.

I thought we (thankfully) didn't have an equivalent to Glenn Beck on our side of the political spectrum.

[Tansy_Gold]

16. Right here

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/08/tax-cut-deal-a-hidden-thr_n_793983.html

[laughingliberal]

53. And here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9720536

laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-07-10 09:22 PM
Original message
Bernie Sanders On Tax Cuts: GOP Wants To Grow National Debt, Then Slash Social Security

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Tuesday that if Democrats cede ground on the tax package now, it will come back to haunt them in the 112th Congress, adding that he will do "anything and everything" to stop the recently-reached deal between the White House and Republicans from going through.

"This is only the beginning," said Sanders of what he referred to as the Republican's "right-wing" agenda. "They want a governmental crisis. Then they're going to shut down the government."

The package opposed by Sanders would allow the Bush tax cuts for the highest-earning Americans to be extended for two years in return for GOP cooperation on the reauthorization of unemployment benefits for just 13 months.

Sanders told a roomful of reporters at the Capitol Tuesday that his main objective in opposing the package is to guard against future cuts in social welfare programs by not significantly increasing the national debt to give tax cuts to the rich.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/bernie-sanders...

It's obvious this is the plan. Oppose the 'deal.'

[Tansy_Gold]

63. Did you notice the response?

:crickets:


:hi:




TG, TT

[PSPS]

20. Hardly "insane." It reduces the payroll tax -- a move never done before.

With the contributions reduced, it just sets up the program as another "entitlement" requiring money from the general fund, which it has never needed before. For the first time, Social Security will be forced to "contribute to the national debt." This fact, plus the catfood commission's nefarious agenda, results in the dismantling of the program in its entirety, probably under the guise of "privatizing" it. The winner is wall street, of course. They get trillions of dollars to prop up their casino and lifestyle.

We (at least the 99% that aren't the "have mores,") have been "O-bombed."

[Spike from MN]

65. And this is exactly what FDR was against.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal:

"The most important program of 1935, and perhaps the New Deal as a whole, was the Social Security Act, which established a system of universal retirement pensions, unemployment insurance, and welfare benefits for poor families and the handicapped.<49> It established the framework for the U.S. welfare system. Roosevelt insisted that it should be funded by payroll taxes rather than from the general fund; he said, "We put those payroll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program." One of the last New Deal agencies was the United States Housing Authority, created in 1937 with some Republican support to abolish slums."

(Emphasis mine.)

I guess FDR couldn't foresee the damn politicians we have today.

[aquart]

21. Long acquaintance with the aims of the disloyal opposition.

But I can well understand your support of Obama's insane giveaway if you still have your head in the sand.

[DirkGently]

24. Obama's prior statement that extending tax cuts for the wealthy would lead to painful cuts?

[Foo Fighter]

42. Game, set, and match. n/t

[displacedvermoter]

66. Obama never loved Obama

although he probably voted for him.

[Lord Magus]

4. If only Congress had the sense to take care of the tax cut issue sooner, this wouldn't be a problem.

Like sometime in 2009.

[Cant trust em]

8. They can start now for getting rid of it in 2012.

I hope this is on everyone's outlook calendar.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Because 18 years of compromise has worked out so well

We have a strong economy

The middle class is vibrant

We are at peace in the world

[Pryderi]

10. And are you doing anything IRL to make a difference?

[MadamAB]

33. Yes

Time to take the D party back...first step? Vote out Tim Kaine.

[provis99]

34. let me clue you in to reality.

Nothing anyone at DU does, no matter how much time or money they spend, is going to make a damn bit of difference in the political system. I wish people would shut up with the dippy "What have you done" crap.

[pacalo]

37. My cousin has used that meme on me...

& she's one of those who votes against her own interests, one of the least of those who can afford to vote for thugs' policies.

[Tansy_Gold]

39. Obviously you don't know any star throwers n/t

[Foo Fighter]

43. Yep. That about sums it up. Great post. n/t

[snot]

13. I'm v. concerned about SS; but also, the tax cuts for the rich & interest thereon

will impoverish all of us.

And in the last day, prices for US Treasuries have dropped dramatically -- not a good sign:

"US Treasuries hit by biggest sell-off in two years
Published: December 8 2010 20:23 | Last updated: December 8 2010 22:18

US Treasuries suffered their biggest two-day sell-off since the collapse of Lehman Brothers . . . "

More at http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e550f996-0304-11e0-bb1e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz17aGxpYRN

[Lucky 13]

14. You don't get it or are being willfully obstinate.

1) taxes for households making less than $40k per year will actually go UP.
2) we are getting a few months of unemployment for 2 years of tax breaks for the rich. How is that a good deal??
3) this does NOTHING for the 99ers. They are just sol.

He compromised by giving them everything while getting nearly nothing of what is good for the little guy. Especially those really poor.

But keep defending it. You'll make yourself dizzy with that spin.

[Pryderi]

And virtual screams on DU is going to change this...how?

[Lucky 13]

31. So we should not talk about it?? And some of us have also been busy on the phone...

... To our congressmen and senators. Good to share that info. There's still a chance to stop this crock of fucking bullshit.

[Lord Magus]

22. How are taxes going up for under $40k?

[Lucky 13]

38. LINK

Read this and then figure out how you'll spin it and then get back to me.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/tax-cut-compromise-whose-taxes-rise_n_793572.html

You'll Never Guess Whose Taxes Are Going To Go Up Because Of The Tax Cut 'Compromise'

<snip>
In fact, the only groups likely to face a tax increase are those near the bottom of the income scale -- individuals who make less than $20,000 and families with earnings below $40,000.
There's probably a way of looking at this that doesn't make it seem so bad, right?
Although the $120 billion payroll tax reduction offers nearly twice the tax savings of the credit it replaces, it will nonetheless lead to higher tax bills for individuals with incomes below $20,000 and families that make less than $40,000. That is because their payroll tax savings are less than the $400 or $800 they will lose from the Making Work Pay credit.
<snip>

[katnapped]

60. That's OK

Not like the poor needed the money anyway...probably waste it on frivolous crap :sarcasm:

[Lucky 13]

70. So no response??? Nothing??? Crickets???

I had been prepared myself to be spun!!

[Pryderi]

15. You're going to make yourself sick with all this anger if you don't take a break.

[Tansy_Gold]

18. You talkin' to yourself? n/t

[pacalo]

41. Let me guess: you're a long way from collecting SS & Medicare.

If I'm right, you'd better start investing a nice chunk of your paychecks now, then hope when you're ready to retire those investments haven't gone down the tubes -- if your job lasts long enough.

[Greyhound]

52. Replying to yourself in your own OP? I think you might want to take your own advice. n/t

[Bluebear]

57. Talking to the windmills of your mind? nt

[onehandle]

17. Teabaggers want only land owners to be able to vote. I'm a land owner.

That won't ruin my life, so I guess that'll be ok.

[sokar101]

27. Tax deal

First of all, love your avatar. The Dems not taking on the tax cut issue before the midterms necessitated this crappy deal Obama made with the Republicans. We can grant that Obama is a lousy negotiator (I would love to play poker with him) but let's put some of the blame on the Dems who are now so critical of this deal.

[Pryderi]

48. Not much of an argument. How did you manage to get to this conclusion?

[FirstLight]

19. uh...jobs...

there won't BE any MORE anytime SOON.... get it?

and if the deficit/involvency problem gets far enough out of hand, other 'entitlements' will surely be next on the chopping block.

and though my hair is not on fire, I sure I don't know how much longer I can personally go on without some kind of JOB...

[HuckleB]

23. It will increase the debt for no good reason.

Meanwhile, we just went through how much baloney in regard to the debt commission?

My life will go on, but this is bad policy, and while bad policy is the reality at times, it doesn't seem like Obama uses his position to get better policy.

At the end of the day, he should have stood his ground in regard to tax cuts for the wealthy. He didn't.

That is disheartening at best.

[reformist2]

25. Taxes on the rich need to go up, and SS needs to stay fully funded.

The proposal is a recipe for disaster.

[HuckleB]

29. +1 on your headline.

However, I am not convinced that the proposal will lead to disaster.

It will lead to negative outcomes. I definitely see that, however.

[Canuckistanian]

28. Some of us take the long view of politics and economics

You think the acceptance of this deal spells THE END of Republican obstructionism?

Do you think that tax cuts for those over $250k is GOOD for the long term health of the economy?

Is it good policy to deal with morally bankrupt GOP politicians who hold a gun to the heads of those who can't fight back?

Caving in on deals like this has been the hallmark of Dems in power ever since Reagan.

When do we get to see some FIGHTING SPIRIT? Where are the HELLFIRE AND DAMNATION politicians on the left?

Oh, yeah, I forgot. They "took a deal" to guarantee funds for their next election campaign. Because, as we all know - a politician who isn't soliciting funds is a ONE-TERMER.

[abelenkpe]

30. Eventually it

will only increase calls for austerity giving the right more reason to demand we make cuts to social programs to balance the budget.

Besides, FOX news thinks it's a great plan. Shouldn't that give you a clue?

[Ozymanithrax]

32. As the New Years Eve ball begins to drop...

The universes expansion will reverse. Just as the universe expanded in the first microseconds of creation to it's full size, so it will collapse into a space less than the size of Limbaugh's IQ and reside henceforth in the left toe of the to turtle carrying the Universe.

[TNLib]

35. I don't believe our country can afford the tax cuts

and long term this could be detrimental. Our country owes way to much and keeps going deeper in debt. How is that not bad long term?

[pacalo]

36. Keeping in mind that the thugs hate FDR's New Deal & want to dismantle all of its

"entitlements" (that all workers pay into), the $170 billion tax giveaway to the insanely rich for only the next two years will increase the possibility that Social Security & Medicare will be gutted by the thugs. Because this expensive tax giveaway will have to be borrowed, I could imagine the thugs will target SS & Medicare to pay back the outrageous loan.

Jeb Bush cut services for the disabled, the poor, & the elderly in order to balance his budget as Florida's governor. Bobby Jindal, governor of Louisiana, has done the same thing. Birds of a feather...

[Warren Stupidity]

40. stupid question

Here is a better question:

"did you support or oppose the bush tax cuts of 2001" yes or no.

[Pryderi]

47. This was more than just the Bush tax cuts. Your statement is stupid.

[Bluebear]

59. Your thread is stupid.

Sorry.

[doc03]

44. Nearly everyone on DU was adamantly opposed to an

extension of the tax cuts for the rich because it amounted to an additional debt of ($700 billion over ten years). Now since Obama agreed with the Republicans that tax cuts will solve all our ills we are adding ($990 billion to the debt in just 2 years). How is it going to hurt me? I may be dead tomorrow but it is going to saddle future generations with a unsustainable debt and eventually we will go the way of Ireland and Greece. I have no problem with the unemployment extension it is the other giveaways I am opposed to.

[bbgrunt]

45. it is the death knell of social security

[krispos42]

46. It's not going to fix the fundamental economic and political problems.

Not enough money or political power in the hands of the bottom 75%. Therefore, they will continue to be stagnant while the top 5% run the country for their benefit. Education will continue to decline, dignified retirement and preventive health care will continue to slip out of reach of more and more people, wages will continue to be depressed.

Money is free speech; so sayeth the Supreme Court. And every day, more and more of the free speech is being said by smaller and smaller numbers of people, who will, of course, use that power to make themselves even richer... and who will support the legislators that make that happen.




Thanks to Reaganomics, people like me have had to give the wealthy 1% a 100% raise in order to get a paltry 12% raise.


If Reaganomics had been strangled in the cradle, the chart could well have looked more like this:




Of course I'm just extrapolating with Microsoft Paint, but get the idea. If in 2002, the top 1% was averaging $375k instead of $600k, and the bottom 99% was averaging $53k instead of $34k... well, shit, things would likely be a hell of a lot better.

There are about 135 million taxpayers in the US.

In real life in 2002, the top 1.35 million average $600k, for total income of $810 billion. And the bottom 133,650,000 averate $34k, for a total income of $4,554 billion. Total: %5,354 billion.


In a Reagan-free world, the top averages $375k and total income is $506 billion. The bottom averages $53k and total income is $7,083 billion. Total: $7,589 billion.

That's a lot more money, a lot more demand, sloshing around in the economy, and much more money in the hands of people that will spend it more everyday stuff rather than rarefired investments and esoteric monetary instruments. And the income total for everybody is up 41%.

[Rincewind]

50. Won't ruin my life,

but, with the extension, my younger brother won't lose his house, so I won't be able to say "ha, ha, I have a house, and you don't".

[McCamy Taylor]

51. They are going to usher in a GOPpresident in 2012.

[laughingliberal]

54. The same way trickle down economics have been destroying lives for 30 years. nt

[lamp_shade]

55. Good question, Pryderi. However, and as expected though, no answers.

oh... big kick and rec.

[Bluebear]

58. Someone answered "If it leads to the unraveling of SS, it could very well ruin my life."

And it was within 3 minutes.

[katnapped]

62. They have their heads buried in the sand

That or endless adoration for 'our fearless leader'

(or possibly, "they gots theirs, to hell with you")

[kctim]

68. IF is not HOW

HOW will I die?
By a jet engine falling out of the sky and landing on me IF I walk outside.

[donco6]

71. There are a dozen answers in this thread.

All valid. Wake the hell up.

[dsc]

61. The tax cuts in this deal will cause more debt increase

in the next 10 years than every proposal of the debt commission will save in the same amount of time. In otherwords if we had simply let all the tax cuts expire, there would be no need for the debt commission and its self admitted draconian cuts which will surely ruin some people's lives. The Social Security tax reduction, unless Obama goes on record with a veto threat to prevent its continuation, will dismantal Social Security, which will ruin many lives. It will harm my life but not ruin it as I have a state retirement coming.

[TheKentuckian]

64. Sometimes the poison works quick and sometimes it is so slow you think it can't touch you.

For you folks to actually flip to defending these tax cuts is astounding.

Fight something for ten fucking years, tooth and nail and flip a switch and land on meh at worst.

This train went off the tracks as soon as we started talking how many hundreds of thousands you need to pull in not to get your beak wet.

We should have fixed the bottom bracket, look hard at the next one up, had some serious discussion about a balance on the child credits, bad for it with a higher bracket, and called it a day.

[closeupready]

67. It will clearly WEAKEN social security during a time when he CLAIMS social security is weak.

n/t

[Dawgs]

69. You really need to educate yourself on how the rich getting richer is ruining the bottom 98%.

Of course that means you will have to take your head out of Obama's butt.