Hey Harry Reid call 'em out and make them do a real life filibuster!

[Botany]

Now if you want to win elections I would get behind the position that helps 98% of the
people rather than the top richest 2% of all Americans. Damn it Harry call 'em out and
make them filibuster in support of millionaires and billionaires and not the rest of us.
For God's sake they have given you the club w/ which to hit them over the head w/
now use it!

These are un American sacks of crap who don't care about the average Joe or Jane but
are willing to run up bigger debts to protect the very rich and they are committed to
the destruction of you Harry, the President, unions, the environment, social security,
health care reform, and any kind of banking or wall street oversight stand up and fight
them Harry!


BTW Senator Barrasso you are a lying asshat .... "We gotta protect the job creators at this time and not penalize them." rough
quote MSNBC about 20 minutes ago ..... So where are all the jobs that tax cuts were supposed to create?



unemployment went up after those tax cuts went into effect.

[Goldstein1984]

They're all in one big club

Congressional theater aside, they can't be too rough on their "friends across the aisle."

After all, at the end of the day they still have to hang out together.

[Botany]

5. Those "friends across the aisle" are committed to the democrats political ...

.... destruction and use the "professional friendships" of the senate to that end.

When are they going to learn to play hardball. Make those fuckers have to get
up in front of some non stop t.v. and internet coverage to protect the really rich.

[cilla4progress]

6. That's it

Dems are whipped puppies

[Recursion]

24. I remember when Congress was like that, before 1994

Though that was back when I was a lowly page, rather than my longer stay as a lowly assistant legislative assistant (yes, "assistant legislative assistant", as if my assistance were worth that of two people...). They did used to go hang out together and party, but after 1994 they stopped doing that; it's actually IMO part of the problem that they don't do that anymore.

[Goldstein1984]

33. So, have they traded unity by friendship for unity by common

corporate sponsor.

[Recursion]

37. *shrug* These were the high school prom kings and queens, for the most part

These are highly social people who are much better at remembering names and faces (if you meet any Congressperson, he or she will almost certainly remember your name even years later) than delving into deep policy questions (wonks like Waxman and Conyers, or even Gingrich, are the exception). It's not that they get some agenda explicitly handed to them from a "corporate sponser" (and I'm still leery of DU's general hatred of anything "corporate"), it's that A) the world they live in doesn't lead one to question certain assumptions about the role of corporations in the economy and B) they are very extroverted people to begin with who are generally not much given to reflection.

[Goldstein1984]

39. I don't think there's a DU hatred for anything corporate

I think the "hatred" is more about the power of corporations short-circuiting the democratic process.

I work as a corporate level manager. My office is right next to the President and VP. I sit in meetings behind closed doors and here the discepency between the corporation's public and private face. Whenever an issue arises that affects our business, the CEO is on a plane to Washington in short order, and he receives private face time from senators and representatives from a number of states. Few citizens have the sort of influence that one CEO has.

I heard a lame rationalization for the level of influence, arguing that CEOs are the equivalent of elected representatives for their employees and stockholders, so they are an enhancement of democracy.

I've worked in my profession for better than twenty years, and I know corporations from multiple angles. They are like scorpions--the sting because it's in their nature. They can't help themselves. Corporations are amoral entities that put profit before other considerations. They can't help themselves.

I know the political type of which you speak, as well. I've spent my career being technically proficient to make up for the fact that most of that type have the depth of a cookie sheet.

When I was a Marine, we used to fly the VIPs around. It was sad. All the pomp associated with their visits, and they didn't know the people they were looking down their noses at were laughing at their silly safari jackets and unscuffed boots.

I have no hatred. I share the world with these people the same way I share it with cockroaches and plague bacilli. They are just a fact of life.

[mbperrin]

1. YES! I cannot understand why we let the THREAT of a filibuster

kill anything! Make them do it, and then, when they are through, VOTE!

For years, we have let people threaten to filibuster and then cave. This is like an employee saying,
"I thought about doing all that work today, so pay me,", and you say, "okay."

Nothing would ever get done, and the business would find itself broke in no time. That's what has happened.

MAKE them filibuster!

[Recursion]

13. That wasn't the "threat" of a filibuster; that was a filibuster

The Republicans voted against ending debate, so the motion cannot be brought to the floor for consideration.

MAKE them filibuster!

Here are the motions available under Senate rules:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GPO-RIDDICK-1992/content-detail.html

Which motion (and remember it must be in order at this point) could Reid initiate to "make them filibuster"? (I assume you mean by that make them stand up and talk all night; as I just said, that failed cloture vote is a filibuster, so they are already filibustering.)

[Andy823]

2. I agree.

They also should have to stay right on through the holidays voting over and over and over on the tax cuts, and extending unemployment benefits for those who are going to lose it! Force these bastards to stay in D.C. until they get something done, or the new congress takes over, make sure that democrats get out and use their NO votes to show how they are trying to help, and it's not small business, it's BIG business and the rich!

There should be protests in front of the homes of everyone who voted NO on this when they do go home. Have town hall meetings like they did over health care and tear them a new one for voting "against" the people of this country in favor of the rich!

[Recursion]

22. Some thoughts

They also should have to stay right on through the holidays voting over and over and over on the tax cuts, and extending unemployment benefits for those who are going to lose it!

That is one standoff Reid could conceivably do: he could keep the Senate in session past their set adjournment date, but that gets harder and harder procedurally as time goes on (motions to adjourn have a surprisingly high priority in the rules of order).

There should be protests in front of the homes of everyone who voted NO on this when they do go home.

Well, what are you doing posting on a message board? Go organize some.

ave town hall meetings like they did over health care and tear them a new one for voting "against" the people of this country in favor of the rich!

How are you going to force a Republican Senator to go to a town hall meeting?

[treestar]

3. It has been explained on DU like 5000 times that it no longer works that way

[Swede]

4. Forget it,he's on a roll.

[Botany]

7. explain it to me smart guy

I thought the vote that was just done had something to do w/ reaching cloture
and that cloture can be used to stop a filibuster. From day one in 2009 the
republicans have used the threat of a filibuster on just about every vote in the
senate.

[Recursion]

10. No. A successful cloture vote ends debate. A failed cloture vote is a filibuster

You just saw a "real" filibuster. As long as debate has not ended, the motion cannot be brought to the floor for consideration.

[Botany]

17. So the minority can dictate what the majority can do?

Then what is the point of having the majority?

[Recursion]

19. No, he cannot dictate what the majority can do

But a sufficiently unified minority can dictate what the majority cannot do. It takes 60 votes to end debate, and as long as debate is not ended, the motion itself cannot be considered. McConnell cannot send any motion at all to the floor, but as long as he has 40 votes in his caucus he can prevent Reid from sending something to the floor.

[Milo_Bloom]

8. It does if they want it to.

[Recursion]

11. No, it really doesn't

The "Strom Thurmond reading from a phone book" thing only happens when both parties already agree to move forward and one person wants to make a point. That is, Thurmond only did that because there were enough votes to end debate, so he had to keep the floor as long as he could.

[Milo_Bloom]

25. Yeah, it really does.

This analysis has been done several times on this site. You can look up references to REAL filibuster on the web as well: http://washingtonindependent.com/83434/democrats-might-force-republicans-to-filibuster-finreg

"It's not only good policy but good politics to call them out now," says Rep. Raul Grijalva, the Arizona Democrat who cochairs the Congressional Progressive Caucus. "The American people need to see who really is the roadblock here." He, like many House Democrats, believes that letting the GOP filibuster rather than retreating in the face of filibuster threats would send a powerful political message. Up until now, "we've been playing into the hands of people who don't want to get anything done," says Grijalva."

Does it end in the same political theater.. not exactly, but you can force them to stand up and be counted over and over and over and over again and, if you actually read rule 22, you can find ways to force them to the floor as well.

[Recursion]

26. OK, what motion does Reid initiate to do that?

He can call a cloture vote once per 48 hours. What other motion is he supposed to initiate? I'm looking through the Senate rules of order and I'm not seeing a "motion to require the other side to stand up and talk"; what's it called?

If the point is that he can keep the Senate in session and call the cloture vote in the middle of the night, then, yes, he can and has. And this board still calls him "spineless" despite doing pretty much the only thing available to him.

[Milo_Bloom]

29. He's done it over and over again?

No he hasn't.

I never said "stand up and talk", that is something you added.. but you can force them to be outted.

You can also order them to the floor and send the sergeant-at-arms to collect the senators if you want.

It all depends if you consider what you are fighting for worth fighting for.

[Recursion]

30. Dupe (again). Self-delete

Not sure why this keeps happening today.

[Recursion]

32. Yes, he did, in December of last year for Health Care

It was all over the news. And it ended up just looking stupid.

[Milo_Bloom]

35. Because the legislation was unpopular... even among democrats.

Note I said a POPULAR piece of legislation.

The public failed to give a damn about the health care bill, because it lacked its most important element.

[elocs]

15. For the learning impaired, let's go for 5001:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/23/the-myth-of-the-filibuste_n_169117.html

The Myth Of The Filibuster: Dems Can't Make Republicans Talk All Night

Reid's office has studied the history of the filibuster and analyzed what options are available. The resulting memo was provided to the Huffington Post and it concludes that a filibustering Senator "can be forced to sit on the floor to keep us from voting on that legislation for a finite period of time according to existing rules but he/she can't be forced to keep talking for an indefinite period of time."

Bob Dove, who worked as a Senate parliamentarian from 1966 until 2001, knows Senate rules as well as anyone on the planet. The Reid analysis, he says, is "exactly correct."

To get an idea of what the scene would look like on the Senate floor if Democrats tried to force Republicans to talk out a filibuster, turn on C-SPAN on any given Saturday. Hear the classical music? See the blue carpet behind the "Quorum Call" logo? That would be the resulting scene if Democrats forced a filibuster and the GOP chose not to play along.

As both Reid's memo and Dove explain, only one Republican would need to monitor the Senate floor. If the majority party tried to move to a vote, he could simply say, "I suggest the absence of a quorum."

Time for a reality check and to stop living in the fantasy world of "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington". Although it is easier to simply accuse Reid of being a spineless idiot.

[Milo_Bloom]

27. Why does it have to be theater?

Forcing them to stand up through a series of quorum calls would be sufficient if the legislation is popular enough.. such as the tax cuts.

[Recursion]

28. Quorum votes are all "present"; there's no division

I don't think you quite get the point of that; quorum calls are used by the minority to prevent actual debate, not by the majority.

Nobody would be voting for or against anything; they'd all just be saying they were there. And they don't even have to show up for them.

[Milo_Bloom]

31. Does no one understand PR?

The "theatre" doesn't have to take place on the Senate floor. The senate grinds to a halt and you take the fight to the press.

Cover the fact that the GOP is at HOME while the democrats are trying to pass popular piece of legislation X.

[Recursion]

34. Better than you, apparently

OK, Reid calls quorum call after quorum call. Mitch McConnell goes on the Sunday morning talk shows and says "While Republicans are trying to do the business of the American people, Harry Reid calls roll 129 times in a row. He's not even considering the tax cuts that are about to expire; he's just calling the roll over and over." How does this help?

[Milo_Bloom]

36. Because people are quite as stupid as you think.

They would know WHY he is calling roll over and over.

[Recursion]

38. Even after this conversation I'm not sure *I* would know why he would be...

...calling the roll over and over again. You seem to say it would give him a stronger position when he goes on talk shows; I just don't see how it would. The Republicans wouldn't have to stand up and talk. He couldn't say they were forcing him to do this (they're not). He couldn't make them give speeches or answer questions. In fact nobody could talk at all; all that would happen on C-SPAN is the same 100 "Present" votes over and over. It would mostly make him look like he's whining.

[Milo_Bloom]

40. Oh get real.

How hard is it to articulate?

The GOP is stopping us from moving forward by refusing to vote on X bill. We believe X bill is important enough to fight for. If X bill is popular, you win. If X bill is a boondoggle, like the health care bill, you lose.

The tax cuts are easy. We want and up or down vote on tax cuts for the middle class and we will not move from this spot until we get it.

(even though I personally think the tax cuts should expire completely, this is an easy example of where they have an easy win).

[Recursion]

9. They just did a real life filibuster

You just saw it. That was it. The cloture vote failed. That is a filibuster.

[Botany]

14. But do not Senate rules allow for those who wish to see a bill to be

passed to force the minority to hold the floor in an old fashioned filibuster?

If not then don't the current rules allow the minority to dictate what can be
done to the majority?

[Recursion]

16. No. They don't

I don't know why that myth is so persistent on this board.

Again, here are the motions available under the Riddick's rules (that's the rule system the Senate uses):

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GPO-RIDDICK-1992/content-detail.html

Which motion can Reid initiate to require the Republicans to keep talking?

[Botany]

18. But can the democrats keep the floor if they wanted to?

[Recursion]

21. I'd have to check what the current parliamentary status is

If that was a motion to proceed rather than a full cloture vote, yes, Reid can now assign the floor, but that would mean the Democrats would be the ones talking (well, he could assign the floor to the Republicans, but they're not under any obligation to talk).

Again, the Strom Thurmond thing was just for show; he was doing it because his "fan base" loved it.

[MrsBrady]

12. this could help you understand

links to Rachel Maddow discussions on this --

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#40463834

they could change the rules, though... but then Democrat's couldn't stop things if the Republicans where in the majority.
What's really needed is the minority party respecting the Majority to rule. And it's not happening anymore.

[patrice]

20. Good strategy! Takes as stand against MSM.

[AC_Mem]

23. WRITE TO YOUR SENATORS

I just wrote to Sen Corker and Alexander:

Sen Alexander/Corker,

I live in a suburb of Memphis. I sit here in my apartment this morning crying for my children and my grandchildren because of YOUR actions this morning.

You voted against a tax cut for myself, for my children, and for all of my friends and relatives. I hope your billionaire friends paid you well - I'm sure you have financially benefited from these purchased votes.

My heart is broken for my country because your party is going to ruin us. I am so deeply ashamed of you that it is making me literally sick.

I make 54k a year. I would gladly pay another 10% of my current taxes to help my fellow Americans and the unemployed, who you care nothing about.

You will have to stand before your God one day and answer for the damage you are doing to us. May the Creator have mercy on your soul because you have absolutely no mercy on ours.

You are, simply and effectively, holding America hostage. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE do not agree with you! Only the millionaires agree with you!

You do not speak for the majority - you speak for the rich. the election was rigged by the rich and the GOP and you darned well know it.

I sit here and I cry and I am deeply ashamed of you and pity you for the dark soul that you have and the absolute lack of compassion for the poor, the sick and the middle class.

You don't care and your partisan, millionaire funded votes may very well destroy our lives. I hope you got paid well for it.

AnnetteC
Disgusted in Cordova, TN