What I love about Assange's game.

[de novo]

Everybody knows he is serious. What other non-state actor has garnered on the record comments from so many heads of state or offices of state?

They are all sweating. It isn't just the US. The US is the filter through which we learn about the behaviors of many governments. That worries all of the governments.

Most important, our government is very worried. But,they aren't worried about what has been released, although it should be enough to shake them. They are worried about 1)what else Assange has and 2)what may be given to him in the future.

Regardless of what has been released so far, whistle-blowers have a conduit. It is effective in getting info out and it is effective in getting attention.

Assange is playing the world players like a violin.

Come January, the politicians will love Assange, when the focus will be on some bankers.

[Smarmie Doofus]

1. I think it's great. n/t

[DemoTex]

2. Dead man playing the violin

Danse Macarbe

[de novo]

4. Indeed.

[Raster]

3. Bring on the banksters! Shine the light!

:kick:

[LostInAnomie]

5. I think he's an attention seeking douche.

I don't know why so many DUers are intent on lavishing praise on a guy that is actively trying to harm US diplomacy. Remember diplomacy? The think we all hated Bush for not doing? Well, Assange is fucking it up for us and about 50% of DU is loving it.

[msongs]

6. makes a nice change from the professiona liars and deceivers in DC nt

[de novo]

7. I disagree.

There was a reason bush's cowboy bullshit didn't work. It was devoid of respect and honesty. These cables show that.

Diplomacy is not spying on your ally or supporting secret coups. Diplomacy is working from a position of respect and confidence.

This is a great shake-up for all of the major players. For at least a brief, and largely unnoticed, moment the gig is up. I hope this makes dignitaries and states-people re-access their relationships.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Diplomacy is not supporting coups?

Better bone up in US History ... may I sugest oh Guatemala in the 1950s... how about Pinochet? Nicaragua?

And that is the tip of the iceberg.

Respect...

Really...

What you are seeing is the reality of it. On the bright side, this is not the US... but much older than the US. You got an Imperial bureaucracy this is what goes on.

[LostInAnomie]

13. Diplomacy requires a level of confidentiality.

Diplomats and dignitaries speak with our diplomats and dignitaries on the presumption that what they say is going to be in confidence of those that need to know. They are not likely to be forthcoming in an environment where they don't think their secrets will be protected or especially where direct quotes of what they said are going to be found on the internet.

We depend on good diplomatic relationships to further our national interests, wikileaks is actively seeking to fuck that up.

[de novo]

15. I guess if it is that important, they will use secure means.

[LostInAnomie]

18. So, the end result of wikileaks' leaks is a more secretive nation.

Thank God for Assange!!!

[de novo]

19. I know you are being sarcastic, but do you think more secrecy is good

or bad? I can't tell.

[LostInAnomie]

24. The real result of Assange's work is going to be a more secretive government.

Diplomats will speak in much more guarded language. Fewer lower level analysts will get to look at incoming intelligence and information from fear it will be leaked. Foreign diplomats will be less likely to be forthcoming. In total, we will have a less effective and more secretive foreign relations.

The gossipy and inconsequential crap that Assange put out is not worth the cost to our diplomatic relations.

[RZM]

25. Oh please

A lot of this stuff concerns the proverbial 'nameless, faceless bureaucrats' that don't change all that much between administrations. The top turns over when the WH does, but the bottom doesn't -- at least not nearly as much. It's not about Bush. The world didn't dislike him because of what careerists in the state department were saying in private.

Diplomacy IS spying. Diplomatic corps have always been covers for spies. And it's also about spying on your allies too. They spy on us, we spy on them. Everybody knows it, they just don't talk about it publicly. The revelations of private shit-talking aren't going to change very many relationships. Some of the more serious policy stuff might, but not the petty bullshit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. The Centurion is screwing with the nobleman's daughter

most of this falls in this category. Situation normal and salacious yes, damaging... by next week nobody will remember.

They are making noise because a few things could be, as they would have seen the light of day in fifty years. But if they paid no attention to it. well, what can I say?

Seriously, if the next leak is this impressive the banks have little to worry about.

At least from what I have been able to see so far...

[LostInAnomie]

16. That's been pretty much my opinion.

It's a bunch of gossipy crap. It doesn't inspire confidence in our ability to protect confidentiality though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Oh it will blow over

will see a revision on who has access to what... and Clinton had the best reaction on this, when the BBC reporter asked about that.

She was told by her counterpart, "you really don't want to know what we've written about you."

This will blow over... and that's it.

A few things are of interest... like all the ME apparently wants Iran taken care off, or rather the Shia - Sunni split is really serious... ok that is in the slightly more delicate category... after that....

Zimmerman telegraph comes to mind. Same crap, different decade.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostInAnomie]

21. I want the best possible diplomacy to protect the interests of our country.

That requires confidentiality and the ability to speak openly about sensitive material. The asshole that leaked this information only served to embarrass the US and undermine our ability to run effective diplomacy.

[Ramulux]

22. You mean the type of diplomacy

where we go around the world threatening people and making deals with governments who harbor major funders of terrorists? If that's what you are talking about then yes, I am very happy that he is fucking up our current form of diplomacy.

[Pholus]

29. +1

[sendero]

31. I think it is about..

... 70% actually.

And yes, the wikileaks actions are not 100% positive, just positive ON BALANCE.

The government and big business have been raping us with impunity for long enough. Let the bastards squirm.

[seabeyond]

32. geez, i cant believe i am agreeing with you. crime, ok. this, now, shows what an immature

incompetent ass he is. lost all credibility.

[mike_c]

34. U.S. foreign policy is manifestly EVIL, and its diplomacy is in support of that...

...and it reflects the underlying venality and selfishness of the U.S. If they have nothing to be ashamed of before the people, there is little to be concerned about. That they are SO concerned suggests that they have much to be ashamed of. And they do it in our names.

[LostInAnomie]

36. What flaccid reasoning that was.

Seriously, you're using the "Innocent people have nothing to hide" argument? Try applying that to any other aspect of US domestic or foreign policy and see how popular that argument is here. It's only flying this time because it's giving a lot of DUers a vicarious thrill seeing the US embarrassed.

US foreign policy is manifestly evil? That is childish black/white thinking. Are negotiations to try to keep SK and NK from war manifestly evil? What about attempts to have Pakistan keep uranium from sources that might turn it over to Al Qaeda? What about talking with sources that tell us about Iranian and NK dealings regarding nuclear weapons? Those are all manifestly evil? Well, if they are, I'm sure you'll be glad to know wikileaks just fucked them all up.

In the real world nations have to practice diplomacy. That requires the ability for diplomats and dignitaries to speak openly and trust that whatever they say will be held in confidence. They are much less likely to present you with the information you need to know if they think that it's going to be seen in direct quotes all over the internet. By leaking confidential material, all wikileaks accomplished was ensuring that our diplomats are even more secretive, that fewer lower level analysts see information, and that we have less effective and more secretive diplomatic relations.

[mike_c]

37. U.S. foreign policy is primarily about maintaining U.S. economic hegemony...

...and commanding a disproportionate share of the worlds resources. Yes, I call that evil.

[LostInAnomie]

38. US foreign policy is about promoting US interests...

... just like every other country's foreign policy is about promoting their interests. Assange's leaks aren't going to change that. They are only going to make the information we get and use less effective, make us more secretive, damage diplomatic relations, and make it less likely that people that could have important information will be forthcoming.

The fantasy people seem to have on here about "taking the American Empire down a peg" is childish.

[mike_c]

40. that's a fantasy....

Look around you. The interests being promoted are not yours and mine-- they're the interests of the MIC and it's alliance with the Pentagon. They're the interests that have produced the widest income and wealth disparities in the world. Are those your interests? They certainly are not mine. U.S. foreign policy works to prop up venal and self-centered social orders so that U.S. economic interests can impoverish the rest of the world, and even most of its own citizens. The rot eventually begins to work at home, too. Our foreign policy is a tool for oppression. Is that your interest? Somehow, I doubt it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. If the dump in January is as impressive as this

not really...

It will be a whimper. Most of the dump is business as usual...

Yes I am quite blasé, seen these things in archives... different decade, same shit.

[de novo]

11. For the large part, yeah. But,

They are sweating. This is the behavior they acquiesce to, yet they are putting up a fight. I think they are nervous about what else could come out. This is our government on its good behavior.

[brewens]

9. It reminds me of the Walter Mathau movie Hopscotch. He played

a veteran undercover CIA field agent. He got in trouble with the CIA director, (Ned Beatty)and was being shut down and put behind a desk. He went underground and began writing and releasing his memiors one chapter at a time. One of my all time favorites.

[drmeow]

14. Playing opera the whole way

Great movie!

[eShirl]

30. thanks! adding it to my queu (n/t)

[Hissyspit]

41. A sleeper!

[glinda]

20. I worry about his safety.

[BlueIris]

28. I don't know how he's still alive.

The only thing I can come up with is that the people who put him up to doing this are bigger than the folks getting dinged right now. Or the leakers bet that the document dump would do so much damage that the folks who might want to retaliate won't be in a position to do so after said damage is done.

[Mimosa]

35. 'the people who put him up to doing this are bigger than the folks getting dinged right now.'

BlueIris, I've been wondering who is funding Assange, too. Even keeping him alive costs some serious money.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

39. Any theories? -nt

[Greyhound]

26. As should be expected, Jefferson had the right idea;

"commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none".
:kick: & R

[Ghost Dog]

27. Bingo.

:(

[harun]

33. I think what he is doing is great not because of what it is doing to

embarrass gov't but of how it is showing the Corporate Media to be a total sham. If they were doing there job there wouldn't need to be a wikileak's. But of course they haven't done "their job" in many many years.