Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

New "(Enhanced Pat Downs) require screeners to touch passnger's genitals"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
GiordanoBruno Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:33 PM
Original message
New "(Enhanced Pat Downs) require screeners to touch passnger's genitals"
Edited on Tue Nov-16-10 02:46 PM by GiordanoBruno
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/2010-10-29-tsa-pat-downs_N.htm

"...the searches require screeners to touch passengers' breasts and genitals. And that's prompting some fliers and the American Civil Liberties Union to question the policy's intrusiveness and effectiveness."


http://articles.cnn.com/2010-10-28/travel/airline.security.pat.down_1_pat-down-tsa-statement-random-screening?_s=PM:TRAVEL

"According to Fitzpatrick, a female screener ran her hands around her breasts, over her stomach, buttocks and her inner thighs, and briefly touched her crotch."


The policy is now in effect for anyone over the age of 12. What kind of man lets government thugs fondle his 13-year-old daughter's genitals?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. This kind of man:
Edited on Tue Nov-16-10 02:41 PM by Ken Burch





...any questions?

(Oh...sorry...I thought you said "what kind of man lets government thugs fondle OTHER PEOPLE'S 13-year-old daughter's genitals?")
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. perverts, all
Gad. Those are creepy pics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GiordanoBruno Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. This is not a partisan issue
You need to include Obama and Janet Napolitano in your collage if we're going to be honest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. +1. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. You're saying Janet Napolitano's a man?
:wtf:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GiordanoBruno Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. touche...
For the record I do not believe Janet Napolitano is a man.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
47. Good.
And I truly hope that belief ISN'T the one that got you burned at the stake.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
44. Traitorous piece of shit, yes...
probably not a man though...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. er...PROBABLY not a man?
Edited on Tue Nov-16-10 06:35 PM by Ken Burch
:eyes:

Is there a REASON you want to provoke a flame war over Janet Napolitano's gender?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. I have no actual evidence either way...
Edited on Tue Nov-16-10 07:51 PM by ProudDad
I just loath her on principle -- the principle being that she deserted this state and left us to the tender mercies of the most egregious collection of racists and Nazis since Selma, AL and Nuremberg...

And she knew it would happen...

And now she "heads up" the 2nd most egregiously lame dept of the govt -- Fatherland (Ubber Alles) Security!

Fuck 'er and the horse she rode in on...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MrDelawho Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. Yup.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. Good point - agree. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
34. Correct.
Leaving them out when they have held the reigns for 2 years is absurdly partisan and false.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
43. You forgot this one...
Edited on Tue Nov-16-10 03:37 PM by ProudDad
It's happening on "his watch"!




Don't you stick that up my ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. In December 2000, a corrupt and very partisan neocon sector
of the SCOTUS appointed a punk who went AWOL and deserted his national guard unit as POTUS, a court martial offense, instead of a Vietnam veteran. That incompetent dipshit was asleep on watch and did not pay attention to his intelligence briefings in the summer of 2001.

Thus we got 911, followed by this TSA bullshit.

So, "What kind of man lets government thugs fondle his 13-year-old daughter's genitals?"

A man who voted for Bush....that's who.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. I suspect that the men are more worried about govt. "thugs"
touching their genitals -- particularly same-sex "thugs."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GiordanoBruno Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I also question what kind of
weak, degenerate and sycophantic man would allow their OWN body to be fondled in order to create the illusion of security.

But that's another issue.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. It does increase security. It's more difficult to hide
explosives in body cavities and less can be hidden there. Anything that makes it more difficult for terrorists reduces the likelihood of terrorists succeeding.

This is the same principal that leads us to put locks and burglar alarms on houses. Yes, the most determined burglars can circumvent them. But safety measures do reduce the number of break-ins.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. the safest place in the world is a prison
I for one would like the option of conducting my life outside of a prison atmosphere... if you want that there are places you can get it, but leave me out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
65. I don't think so...
Maybe I watch too many movies, but it seems prison in the US is about the most dangerous place in the world. I don't blame criminals who are cornered for taking their own lives rather than going to prison.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GiordanoBruno Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. The goal of terror
is to make people live in fear and force the government to become oppressive.

The installation of full body "naked" scanners and the implementation of "genital fondling" proves that the terrorists are succeeding.

Furthermore, you are absolutely wrong on the facts. These scanners DO NOT detect explosives in body cavities, they even have trouble looking through pleats in clothes. The GAO says they wouldn't have even stopped the "Underwear Bomber".

http://homelandsecuritynewswire.com/gao-raises-questions-about-effectiveness-full-body-scanners

http://www.thelocal.de/sci-tech/20101116-31209.html


Lastly, no matter how many times you offer up yourself and your daughter for "strip searching" and "genital fondling" you will never be 100% safe.

Where do you draw the line? Genital fondling at subway stations, genital fondling when renting trucks, genital fondling before you enter a mall, cavity searches, droit de seigneur?

Again I ask, what kind of sick person has no problem with the federal government fondling the genitals of their 13-year-old daughter?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. what kind of sick person has no problem with the federal government fondling the genitals
Edited on Tue Nov-16-10 03:07 PM by DainBramaged
of their 13-year-old daughter?






His supporters tackle and stomp women regularly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
32. When you put it that way, I can kind of agree with this. But I think I read, when
they were first talking about this, that this would not have detected the material that the Underpants Bomber had, for example -- am I correct in thinking that? But your point about explosives in body cavities is a good one.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GiordanoBruno Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Hi Gateley
Here are the facts:

The scanners would not have stopped the Underpants Bomber, they do not detect explosives in body cavities and they even have trouble seeing through pleats sometimes.

http://homelandsecuritynewswire.com/gao-raises-question...

http://www.thelocal.de/sci-tech/20101116-31209.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. But a pat-down might have detected this, right? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GiordanoBruno Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. A genital pat down, may or may not have
Edited on Tue Nov-16-10 03:32 PM by GiordanoBruno
detected the "Underpants Bomber". But it surely would not have detected a bomb in a body cavity.

Again, no matter how many times you are strip searched or allow your genitals to be fondled, you aren't safe.

If you are really serious about safety you would demand everyone fly naked after a full body-cavity search and have luggage and cargo carried on a separate flight. Airplanes would have to be flawlessly piloted by computer programs that were completely immune to hacking.

Even then, I can conceive of implanted explosives in false teeth, nasal passages, chest cavities, big bellies, etc.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #40
59. Exactly
A determined terrorist (domestic or otherwise) will find a way around any security measures just as determined drug traffickers do every day. At the end of the day, it's not these type of screenings that will prevent criminal activity. However, they do allow the government to put on a show about protecting people who can't see the nitty gritty type of work they do for law enforcement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #37
57. Not necessarily since it was shaped in the form
of a penis... to be very graphic about it...

You are being told this so you accept it, and feel safer. But the GAO disagrees, and so so a few other places with a higher threat profile.

Consider this... why have the Israelis looked at this, rejected it, and I am sure in private had a good laugh?

Also WHO is selling this crap? Chertoff. This is the highest definition of CORRUPTION.

Oh and it goes without saying, 22 men with box cutters won.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Thanks -- Now I'm infuriated all over again!
:7:

I wonder if members of Congress have to submit to this security, too.

I read where Boehner said he was going to continue to take public air transportation and forego the private plane when he becomes Speaker (although I'd previously read that he's often ferried about in private jets). Wonder if he'll get a pass?

And welcome to DU, GiordanoBruno! :hi:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alstephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
41. Why don't they use the wands that detect explosives?
They are used in other countries and they are much less expensive than the naked body scan machines - and more effective. If explosives are detected, THEN you should be subjected to further scrutiny. Sorry, but to me it's all about the profits of the manufacturers of the machines, not safety or security.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #41
58. And K-9 teams
:-)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #9
60. Well so far they aren't conducting body cavity searches, but you
apparently would have no problem with it. I think many many people would beg to differ.

Submitting to a sexual assault in any form should not be a prerequisite to flying on an airplane. The Israelis have top notch airport security. We give them millions in foreign aid. Perhaps they could return the favor by teaching us how to make our airports safe without sexually assaulting our citizens.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. i suspect that men like myself are more concerned with our civil liberties..
Edited on Tue Nov-16-10 02:57 PM by frylock
but don't let that get in the way of you painting everyone as homophobes to rationalize the fact that you're scared shitless of the boogeyman.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. How about THIS as a reaction - STRIP DOWN while waiting in line for security. Down to as little as
the temperature will allow.

You're just trying to help out the brave defenders of our airways, don'tcha know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
36. Did you see the protestors in Germany? They stripped down to their underwear
(which I was thinking may have prevented them from being arrested - good thinking!).

If I had the body I had lo, those many years ago, I'd do what you suggest. Wonder what they'd do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
51. Ironically....
You would probably be arrested for "indecent exposure".


This is a fucked up society we live in...




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #51
62. That was my first thought when I saw the picture. I don't know if they were
arrested in Germany or not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. Like I said before, they can pat me down all they want, so long as
it's done by a very good looking man, lol.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. LOL! You perv!
(I was thinking the same thing.)

:P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. I want dinner and a movie
first.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. LOL
so I'm not the only one. :P

If we must go down this road, I say we adopt an "adults only, pick your screener " policy.

Yeah, I'll take her, right over there, she can pat me down :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. The policy is not to actually find anything.
The policy is to intimidate, scare, and force passengers to submit to the other screening method.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. +1
I think that's it exactly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrDelawho Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. At the heart of this is....
PROFIT. The Homeland Security racket is just the latest incarnation of the famous MIC. (Those machines will be needed in hundreds of airports. They are very expensive.)Welcome to the USA!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
38. I'm afraid to ask who the manufacturer is -- do you know? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrDelawho Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I do not, but it may as well be......
Halliburton.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. And, wonder where they're being manufactured? Sigh.
And welcome to DU, MrDelawho! :hi:

(I initially read your username as MrDelaware and I was going to insist you change it because that belongs to my guy, Joe!)



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GiordanoBruno Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. Michael Chertoff among others
Bush's homeland security goon has personal and financial ties with the "Naked" Scanner's manufacturer.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/01/airport-scanner-scam

Chief among them is former DHS secretary Michael Chertoff, who now heads the Chertoff Group, which represents one of the leading manufacturers of whole-body-imaging machines, Rapiscan Systems. For days after the attack, Chertoff made the rounds on the media promoting the scanners, calling the bombing attempt "a very vivid lesson in the value of that machinery"all without disclosing his relationship to Rapiscan...

American Science & Engineering, Inc. AS&E has retained the K Street firm Wexler & Walker to lobby for "federal deployment of security technology by DHS and DOD." Individual lobbyists on this account include former TSA deputy administration Tom Blank, who also worked under House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

Chad Wolfformer assistant administrator for policy at TSA, and a former aide to Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Tex., a top Senate appropriator and the ranking Republican on the transportation committeeis also lobbying on AS&Es behalf.

Smiths Detection, another screening manufacturer, employs top transportation lobbying firm Van Scoyoc Associates, including Kevin Patrick Kelly, a former top staffer to Sen. Barbara Mikulski, D-Md., who sits on the Homeland Security Appropriations subcommittee. Smiths also retains former congresswoman Helen Delich Bentley, R-Md.

Former Sen. Al DAmato, R-N.Y., represents L3 Systems, about which Bloomberg wrote today: "L-3 has developed a more sophisticated system that could prevent smuggling of almost anything on the body, said Howard Rubel, an analyst at Jefferies & Co., who has a hold rating on the stock."







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
61. That's it, entirely. Submit to the machine or get treated like shit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
24. Talk about 'enhanced interrogation'!
:grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
28. I'm betting this will last a week once the lawsuits start flying.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
29. We have turned into what we feared most.
Fucking goons treating citizens like the enemy is not going to win any upcoming elections! I mean, if that is ALL politicians care about anymore - listen up! I'm so fucking disgusted with my country, seems we left the jackboots in charge of 'security'...why is that? Mr. President?

So I guess full cavity searches are next on the list of 'freedoms'? This is the experiment to see how far citizens will go and act like cattle (though I don't think people fondle bull balls, but I could be wrong).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
30. This is insane
Really insane. TSA is obviously out of control.

I look forward to the news conference where the TSA head resigns, and the Congressional hearings should be good, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
31. I stopped flying years ago. I take a sleeper car on the Amtrak now.
IMHO: This kind of thing is going to eventually kill the airline industry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
50. I wish there was railroad service out here in the west.
Edited on Tue Nov-16-10 07:56 PM by ProudDad
Even in the Seattle to San Diego corridor the "service" is horrible...

I tried to go to Texas by train a year and a half ago.

I got to the station at midnight, 1/2 hour before my train's "scheduled" departure at 12:30am...

(The Amtrack train east only departs 3 times a week at 12:30AM)

I was told while purchasing my ticket that the train was now due 2am, would wait a 1/2 hour then leave at 2:30am

At about 1am, the agent came out to announce that the train would not arrive until about 4am...

I called my friend with the gypsy cab and rode back home...

I never DID get to Texas 'cause 2 days later, on my way east in my vehicle, they closed New Mexico at the Arizona/New Mexico border.

But that's a story for another day...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. I'm out west. My most frequent trip is Eugene OR to Los Angeles. nt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Yeah, there's a little corridor from Seatle to L.A.
that's almost do-able. I took the Starlighter from Emeryville to L.A. once for fun...

Then I had to get a shuttle from Union Station to LAX in order to rent a freakin' car!!!

Rail travel just ain't what it used to be!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. That's true.
I had family to pick me up at the LA terminal.
But I used to ride the El Capitan from L.A. to Chicago and make a transfer to get to Detroit. It was a luxurious trip, but that was back in the 1960's.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #56
64. Yeah, I used to ride the Seaboard Air-Lines Rails
Edited on Wed Nov-17-10 12:39 PM by ProudDad
From D.C. to Georgia/Florida in the 60s...

Real silver service and damask, great food, reliable service, conviviality in the club car...

We could have that again for MUCH less than the cost of the insane occupation of Afghanistan...

In fact, we could have multi-modal high speed rail corridors with slower speed feeders in less than a decade...

But that would be way too intelligent...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kat45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
52. And republican governors are refusing stimulus funds for high speed railroads
Not even giving us the choice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #31
63. What's the security like on Amtrak?
And I'm not so sure about this killing the airline industry. I think people will get used to it like we get used to being without other civil liberties they've taken away.

This country has become frightening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. I used to love to fly...
I even got a pilot's license 'cause I loved it so much...

Now, I WON'T fly unless it's to get out of this country... And next time, I think I'll just take a bus to Mexico and fly out from there. Fuck TSA!

I just won't GO anywhere I can't go by car or train now... (and they've fucked up rail passenger service, on purpose, so much that that's just not an option either)...

But you are entirely correct, this Police State laughingly called a "country" is continuing down the road to terminal frightening (since John Adams and the Alien and Sedition Acts!)...

That's what Empires do...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. Same with me! My dad used to bring us to the airport when we were little
and we could go out on the observation deck and watch the planes come and go. It gave me a love of flying and I ended up getting my pilot's license too!

The 'joy of flying' has diminished over the years with the seats getting smaller, more restrictions, etc. It got so flying to a destination was just a way to get there and all the pleasure in it was gone.

I'd like to look into Amtrak. We need to really vamp up our rail system and we only need to look to Europe or Japan to see how to do it right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. I was in Europe for 3 months back in the mid-90s...
I was able to hit 11 countries and didn't come near an automobile except for 3 or 4 side trips with people we met...

Madrid, Montreux, Munich, Berlin, Amsterdam, London, Paris, San Sebastian (Spain), Toledo, Segovia, Sevilla, Ronda, Algeciras, Tangiers (YUCH!), Rabat (ok!), Valencia, Burgos and many others -- ALL by train (except the ferry to Morocco)...

A walk or Metro ride to the train station. Train to the next city center, walk or metro/tube to the hotel...

Civilized travel that in many cases didn't take much longer door to door (or was QUICKER) than flying...

And from what I read, they have even more fast train corridors that would make it even easier today...

We got fucked: try to find "Taken for a Ride" movie -- they seem to have taken it down...hmmm...

"Taken For A Ride exposes the conspiracy conducted by General Motors to undermine the tram car system all over America, then replaced these with their polluting buses and lobbied for the highways commission to ensure taxes from cars went solely to building more roads and in doing so ruined communities and destroyed the fabric of more than just the societies directly affected."

Ah, look QUICK here! http://www.documentary-film.net/search/watch.php?&ref=158
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Just started watching that, but will have to finish later -- looks great -- thanks!
I remember years ago a documentary on television (pre-cable, even) showing how the streetcar lines in LA had been bought up by GM, Goodyear, the oil companies, essentially forcing people to buy their products.

Recently a big deal was made about Obama signing some rail deal in Florida, was it? At the same time, China was announcing their plans to, or completion of, a mass transit system. Our itty-bitty one cost a LOT of money, only went from point A to point B (if i recall within one state) and is going to take several years to build. China's, by comparison, covers most or a lot of the entire country, is more efficient and costs less, and will be completed in about a minute. :7

I don't understand why we don't just learn from those who have done it successfully as your story shows. We always seem to think we can do it better and we end up lagging far behind -- hybrid and electric cars, solar power, etc.

I'm looking forward to watching the entire piece -- thanks again!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
33. Sweet, now I get to wear a cod-piece whenever I fly
Come on baby...wanna grope this :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-10 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
55. Fuck this. I'm done flying
I'll use my car or just not take long vacations. Stick that in your economic pipe and smoke it, Obama admin.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
68. Follow the Money - the manufacturers
Edited on Wed Nov-17-10 12:54 PM by ProudDad
The following companies manufacture commercially available backscatter X-ray devices that are used in airports and security scanning applications:

1. American Science and Engineering<4> (device name: Smartcheck)
2. Rapiscan Systems (a subsidiary of OSI Systems Inc.)<5> (device name: Secure 1000)
3. Tek84 (formerly Spectrum San Diego Inc.)<6> (device name: AIT84 Body Scanner & Castscope)

The fat fucks who make the big money at AS&E
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=111923&p=irol-govmanage

These next two don't have an "executives" page -- don't want us to know who they are.
Rapiscan (prounounced: Rape-eee-scan) - - They got millions from the "stimulus" package to supply these fucking strip search machines that we neither needed nor want!

Tek84 (think Tek-9?) -- Inventor of the technology "worked" with Clinton's FDA to certify this shit...hmmm)


Pornography and Molestation is Happening in Public View Every Day in an Airport Near You
http://socyberty.com/crime/pornography-and-molestation-is-happening-in-public-view-every-day-in-an-airport-near-you/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
70. Here's the genesis of the problem!
"Taken For A Ride exposes the conspiracy conducted by General Motors to undermine the tram car system all over America, then replaced these with their polluting buses and lobbied for the highways commission to ensure taxes from cars went solely to building more roads and in doing so ruined communities and destroyed the fabric of more than just the societies directly affected."

http://www.documentary-film.net/search/watch.php?&ref=158
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun Mar 07th 2021, 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC