Mayor Gavin Newsom vetoes fast-food toy ban

[The Straight Story]

San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom wants to keep the happy in Happy Meals.

As promised, Newsom vetoed on Friday legislation approved by the Board of Supervisors that would prohibit fast-food restaurants from giving away toys in kids meals sold in San Francisco unless they meet a strict set of nutritional standards of reduced calories, salt, fat and sugar, and also contain fruits and vegetables.

Despite Newsom's opposition, the law may still end up on the books. The board passed it on an 8-3 vote Tuesday, the minimum needed to override a veto. An override vote has not been scheduled.

The goal, say the legislative sponsors, is to use government regulation to help combat childhood obesity. Newsom called the intent laudable but imprudent.


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/11/12/BAKL1GBDI5.DTL#ixzz15Id2HoBQ

pffft he must be a freakin libertarian :evilgrin:

[ananda]

1. Newsom is not all that great.

nt

[TheWraith]

35. No, but in this case, he was completely and totally in the right.

The fact that the Board passed such a law in the first place is ridiculous.

[Bluebear]

99. Why is that?

[Mimosa]

2. Good for Newsom: let parents do their parenting.

I'm sure san Francisco has some problems on which the Board should spend time.

[virgogal]

5. + 1

[The Northerner]

60. +2

[name not needed]

3. In for the hundred posts calling him a sellout.

[Dennis Donovan]

4. Gavin Newsom's boyhood hero must be Pugsly Addams...

:silly:

[proteus_lives]

6. Good.

To hell with the authoritarians.

[alp227]

7. He's vetoed a lot of BOS proposed legislation

Such as:
- A fee on alcoholic beverages to fund alcoholism treatment
- An amendment to the sanctuary city policy that prohibits local authorities from reporting juvenile illegal immigrants to the feds unless such juvenile has been convicted of a felony. The Board overrode Newsom's veto, though.

Libertarian? Hell no, what do you expect of a San Francisco Democrat who's also initiated ?

[The Straight Story]

11. naw, I just mentioned that because

If I am against a govt ban on something a few folks call me a libertarian. And I am just a guy who writes comments on the net, imagine what a ginormous libertarian a guy like Gavin is since he actually has the power to put down a ban others in govt tried to enact.

He must be like the jesus of libertarians :rofl:

[jancantor]

8. Good for him

Sounds like he's a check and balance against idiocy

[Mz Pip]

9. Good

It was a stupid ban.

[Tikki]

10. I hope his veto is over-ridden...

Why does any child need a plastic non-biogradable toy with his/her meal?


Tikki

[The Straight Story]

12. I dunno, ask the parents who like freedom of choice. Choice, I really like that word (nt)

[Tikki]

17. Still doesn't answer why a child needs a plastic toy with a meal..

A napkin maybe or maybe a straw.

Did parents form a consumer pac way back when demanding plastic toys with their child's fast-food meal?
Is it a custom or religious practice that corps are honouring?

Who does it serve?

Tikki

[The Straight Story]

23. it is called choice - don't like it, eat elsewhere. The more govt limits choice the less you have

Maybe choice is something you want folks limiting for you because you cannot handle the freedom of it, some of us though actually like it.

[Sirveri]

101. Parents still have a choice to purchase the toy. And the meal.

This is merely regulation that prevents them from being bundled together as a form of reward advertising.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. It serves the people who are willing to exchange this thing called "money" for what's being "sold".

It's a fascinating system whereby someone wants something and someone else sells it to them.

[Tikki]

29. So the plastic toy is being 'sold' and the meal comes free!!!

Yikes....


Tikki

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Maybe you didn't know, but if you don't like it, you don't have to buy it.

I think the last time I ate McDonalds was when Newt Gingrich shut the government down.

[Tikki]

40. If your child must have a plastic toy with tonight's dinner...then why

not push for a consumer legislation that puts a visible warning on the toy stating that:

'This toy is not now or well it ever be biodegradable and the millions of fast food toys are a dime-a-dozen
and are rarely recycled, repurposed or reused".

Then parents and, children who can read, have the information to make an informed choice.


Tikki

[Warren DeMontague]

70. You seem awfully hung up on the words "need" and "must".

I'm not sure why the concept of people making their own decisions causes such terror and incoherence.

[woo me with science]

75. + 1000 nt

[Luminous Animal]

83. Actually it is those who advocate that business continue to assault our children...

with clinically proven brainwashing techniques effectively hobble people making their own decisions. Despite your assertion that parents have to be the bad guy, most parents do not want to be the bad guy. Most parents want to make their children happy. They do not want their relationship with their children to be oppositional. Most advertising directed towards children pits children against their parents.

[Warren DeMontague]

86. Not only that, but hyperbole kills.

Every time someone makes a goofy analogy and exaggerates for the purpose of effect, God kills a kitten. Please, think of the kittens.

[Luminous Animal]

110. What analogy?

[Warren DeMontague]

114. advertising = "assault".

For starters.

[Luminous Animal]

116. Nope. That is not an analogy. Rather it is a straightforward characterization.

Advertising has been nothing but a brainwashing industry. And an industry that spends billions of dollars trying to brainwash children is assaulting children.

[Warren DeMontague]

125. That's even worse.

You're not saying advertising is like assault, you're saying it IS assault. That's an insult to people who have experienced actual assault.

[KittyWampus]

119. And yet you resort to same hyperbole to because you can't refute the fact that children

are subjected to a daily onslaught of sophisticated marketing that they don't have the ability to withstand.

[Warren DeMontague]

124. No, I don't.

I'm sorry there aren't enough silly, useless, control freak laws on the books for you, though. Really, I am. It must be endlessly frustrating not to be able to legislate your fellow citizens' behavior as extensively as you would like.

[Luminous Animal]

48. It is a fascinating system where we allow strangers, on a mass scale several times, to brainwash

our children and then pit an individual parent against that billion dollar brainwashing.

It does not serve the people to make parents enemies against their own children.

[Warren DeMontague]

69. I'm sorry that you and yours are unable to think for yourselves and make your own decisions.

Don't extrapolate that weak-mindedness onto the rest of the world. Thanks.

[apocalypsehow]

105. +70 trillion. n/t.

[TheManInTheMac]

32. No, children don't need a plastic toy with a meal...

In fact, children don't need ANY toys. Like other primates, they can roll their shit into balls and throw them at people.

Here's a thought: Don't take your rugrats to McDonalds. Don't like the product, don't buy it. Stay the fuck out of my business though.

[Jamastiene]

76. +1

[proteus_lives]

18. Choice is one of the most awesome words of all time.

Check my sig line.

[Warren DeMontague]

27. I agree. But aren't you against marijuana legalization?

Or am I confusing you with someone else's cthulu avatar?

[proteus_lives]

28. No, I'm for it.

I have doubts about the legalization of heavier drugs but I have no problem with making pot legal.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Gotcha.

:hi:

[Luminous Animal]

46. I dunno, ask the parents who would like peace of mind. Who don't always want to have to say no.

How about asking parents who want to be a positive influence in their child's lives instead of always being pit against a billion dollar industry and always having to shoot down brainwashing advertising and disappoint their child.

It is ridiculous how often parents are expected to deny their children the shiny things that are dangled in front of children's faces every day through advertising and then, in turn, expect those parents to have a healthy positive relationship with their children.

[proteus_lives]

51. My parents had a weapon against the "billion dollar industries".

The word no.

As in, "No, we're not getting fast food tonight."

And suddenly the billion industry loses.

[Luminous Animal]

57. There is more to parenting than saying no. I didn't allow my daughter any access to advertising

so I could say yes yes yes.

I raised my child so that she could hear the word "no" as little as possible.

And it is not just denying fast food. It is denying most every product produced by slave labor that we mindlessly wrap and put under the xmas tree. It is a unrelenting vista of saying no to our children if we are willing to raise an ethical child.

[proteus_lives]

65. Raise your kid as you see fit.

But don't try to raise other people's kids.

[Jamastiene]

77. I heard "no" some.

My aunt helped raise me. She told me "Why?" was my favorite question. She answered why when I was told no. I didn't ask for the same things twice if I was told no and taught why the answer was no. Some of those "no"s turned me into a thinking child, who later grew up to be a thinking adult. It's why I vote Dem.

You can say no and explain why and still end up raising an ethical child. As a matter of fact, you stand an even better chance of influencing your child's ethics that way.

[pipoman]

59. Some of the best child/parent relationships I see

are those between Holdeman Mennonite parents and children. They don't have televisions or internet in their homes and they don't shower their children with plastic toys. This is about choices, the cards are in your hands.

[Luminous Animal]

61. And that is a choice that the Mennonite community decided to promote the health of the community.

Similarly with San Francisco. We get to decide, through our elected reps, that unhealthy Happy Meals are toxic for our children.

[pipoman]

63. There is a difference between

people making personal decisions and governments passing laws which removes the choice from others. There are no laws against TV or internet, it is a decision by each individual family. Right among the Holdemans are other sects of Mennonites who do have internet and TV.

[proteus_lives]

64. You decide.

If you think they're toxic. Don't take you kids to a McDs.

But outside your family, you don't have the right to make that choice.

[Luminous Animal]

80. You are right. I want my lead paint. Society has no right to take that away from me.

[Warren DeMontague]

91. No. You should not be free to buy lead paint, or have an abortion, or get a happy meal.

Because all those things are EXACTLY THE SAME.

[proteus_lives]

103. Yeah, exactly the same.

:eyes:

[Imajika]

16. That is the parents decision...

...not yours.

You don't like Happy Meal toys, don't take your children to McDonald's. Pretty simple.

The very notion that the government needs to ban Happy Meal meal toys is the very definition of the nanny state run amok.

[KansasVoter]

22. Wow, let the damn consumer decide. Not the government.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. Good God.

It must be endlessly frustrating to live on a planet full of people who aren't obeying your every edict and dictum.

[TheWraith]

37. Well, let's check with the Department of Needs.

Oh, wait, there is no such thing. Because in a free country, you don't need a reason for something to be legal, you need an EXTREMELY COMPELLING reason for it to be illegal.

[Odin2005]

39. Why don't you stay out of what is the business of parents, not the state.

[Duke Newcombe]

41. Because they can...and their parents buy the meal for them.

It that newfangled "parenting" thing. Perhaps you've heard of it.

[11 Bravo]

43. I can't begin to comprehend the level of arrogance required for someone to believe ...

that they are qualified to determine what other people's children should be allowed to have.

[Dappleganger]

123. Parents can decide that.

What next, does the city council get to decide whether they wear velcro or lace-up tennies to preschool?

Liberal=freedom

[rpannier]

13. I'm with Newsome on this one n/t

[Odin2005]

14. Good, that bill is idiotic.

[Renew Deal]

15. At least someone has some sense

I dislike McDonalds and what they do with food, but they should have the right to package toys with food.

[Luminous Animal]

49. And communities have a right to say... quit luring our children to eat crap

so I have to constantly say no to my kid. Parents have the right to insist that their children are presented with positive choices that allow them to enforce those positive choices so that parents can say, "Yes, yes, yes."

[WolverineDG]

54. Last I looked, parents controlled the money, the car keys, & the TV

Saying "No" a lot comes with the parenting job.

dg

[Luminous Animal]

56. So does saying yes. It is remarkable how many people feel that saying no is a parents job

when saying yes is more important. The more positive experiences parents can give their children, the better family cohesion.

[WolverineDG]

66. So everyone else in society should have to adjust so that we can revolve around *YOU*?

I don't think so.

Saying "no" & being the "bad guy" is part of the parent job description.

dg

[Luminous Animal]

81. Who decided that a parent's job is to be the bad guy? Why is it acceptable to put parents in the

position to be the bad guy... to be constantly opposed to their children's desires... desires that are created by using psychological methods backed by a billion dollar industry?

[proteus_lives]

104. Sometimes the parent's responsibility to be the bad guy.

It's called being a grown-up.

[Luminous Animal]

109. Yes. Sometimes. But I reject the assault of the advertising industry that pits children against..

their parents.

[WolverineDG]

120. You did! Your children are *YOUR* responsibility

not mine or anyone else's.

dg

[pipoman]

62. Jeeezuz

does your community not have grocery stores? Does your home not have a kitchen? Communities have no such right. Parents have the right to prepare healthy food for their children, they don't have a right to tell me what to feed my kid nor does my community nor do you. If you can't handle the responsibilities of parenting please do us all a favor and don't have children. If turning them down for a hamburger when they are 6 is too difficult for you, you are going to be a horrible teen parent.

[Renew Deal]

68. You have the choice and you chose not to eat there.

Seems like the system is working the way it should.

[Warren DeMontague]

72. Guess San Francisco isn't going to be one of those communities, huh?

Perhaps you should move somewhere else, where there is less danger of you being forced to make your own decisions.

[bbinacan]

19. Good! n/t

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

20. Obesity is not caused by a Happy Meal Toy, It's a huge and

growing problem brought on by consuming large amounts of sugar, combined by inactivity. We all need to start reading labels and change our eating habits. Remember every time you purchase something you vote with your dollars!

[KansasVoter]

21. +1......crap like this give liberals a bad name. Like wanting to ban candy at Halloween.

[butterfly77]

36. You took the words..

out of my mouth. I forgot about the Halloween nonsense..

[TheWraith]

38. Amen. It's nanny behavior run amok. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

26. Good for him. Another reason he's going places- because he understands the difference

between a few crusty old control freak "liberals" -the people who want to ban everything from porn to meat- who think life is best served by micro-managing other peoples' choices, and the rest of us, who understand that while government regulation is certainly warranted in certain circumstances, the default position should be to let fully informed citizens make their own decisions.

[SoCalDem]

33. As bad as fast-ffod is for kids, it's the PARENTS who take the kids there and who pay for the food

so if a toy is part of an unhealthy meal, it's up to the parents to choose.

If the toy is removed, a parent can always just buy a small order of fries & toss the apples (or whatever).

The problem is NOT the parent occasionally (with emphasis on OCCASIONALLY) taking a kid to McDonalds.

The problem is that fast food places use processed foods, prepared unhealthily and those fast foods are in concert with all the other crap that kids are fed these days..

My son stayed with a friend for 4 days while we were out of town once:

their menu:

breakfast..pop tarts or cereal
lunch..whatever school was serving that day
after school snacks.. chips, microwave popcorn cokes etc
dinner:
....delivered pizza
....carry-out KFC
....frozen lasagna
....Drive thru tacos & burritos

The Mom asked my son what he liked to eat & when he said chicken fried steak, she said..oh chicken:)

He was happy to see us come home:)

Apparently their everyday meals were what we considered "one in a while" dinners.

Individual families decide what to feed themselves & their kids, so it's always a crapshoot.

Some kids who ate garbage, will grow up determined to eat better once they are on their own, and many will just continue with what they know..

[TheCowsCameHome]

34. Good. Let them give out low calorie toys instead

Let the parents raise their children.

[and-justice-for-all]

42. I do not think it is ok for fast food chains to bribe children..

into eating their toxic garbage. Marketing manipulates children into nagging their parents in to buying them that crap with toys from China.

I understand that parents should should take responsiblity for what their kids eat, but these fast food chains encourage poor eating habits in children.

[Luminous Animal]

44. He vetoed because he has higher aspirations. The intent behind the law is solid.

Advertising to children is child abuse... and this allows parents to be more enthusiastic about saying, "Yes," to their children when they ask for a Happy Meal. It is exhausting saying no all the time. It is exhausting, as an individual up against a billion dollar advertising targeted towards ones child, to be the one that has to say no. Most parents, that I know, want to do almost anything they can to make their children happy. Unfortunately, most parents, that I know, are put in an antagonistic position against advertisement aimed at their children.

Nobody here would allow a stranger to knock on their door several times a day and demand that they talk to your child alone in order to convince your child to consume a product that is unhealthy. But that is what the fast food advertising does every day.

[WolverineDG]

55. advertising is child abuse ??

Do you realize just how insane that sounds? :crazy:

dg

[Luminous Animal]

58. Yes. Advertisers employ psychologists to figure out how to hook children into being lifelong brand

consumers.

Using sophisticated methods to shape my child's opinions on a daily basis, (opinions that are contrary to my ethics) and using billions of dollars to do so, is, child abuse.

[WolverineDG]

67. Do they not make TV sets with "OFF" buttons anymore

or do you not know how to use it?

*YOU* control what your kid sees & reads while they are in your home. *YOU* are the one in charge. Why you think that it's everyone else's job to raise *YOUR* kid is beyond me.

dg

[Luminous Animal]

85. My kid grew up with almost no TV and homeschooled. She screamed at me when she was 14 because...

as she said, I raised her as a freak. She is 20 now and OK with how I raised her but she is still annoyed that she missed out most every common cultural landmark of her contemporaries.

I don't think that it is everyone else's job to raise my kid. I do think that it is society's job, through our government to mitigate corporate influence. Corporations managed to keep lead paint on the market decades beyond it's known danger. And corporations are currently allowed to advertise to children using well documented psychological brainwashing techniques.

We, as a society, demanded that the lead paint industry quit fucking with our children's brains and we as a society can demand that food industry quit fucking with our children's brains.

[Warren DeMontague]

88. So your 20 year old daughter is annoyed with you, and you blame society?

You blame society for not more strictly conforming itself to the way you think the world should be, ergo you felt you had to completely shelter your kid from it--- and now you're irked that your kid isn't more grateful?

[Luminous Animal]

93. Haha. That's funny. No. I do not blame society. Try again.

[Warren DeMontague]

95. Okay, you blame the flying monkeys?

I don't know. But honestly, you hid your kid from the world and homeschooled her, and you're surprised she's not more grateful? Really?

[Luminous Animal]

98. Where did I say I hid her from the world? Are you saying that the world is corporate advertising?

[Warren DeMontague]

102. She's "annoyed" with you about something.

Maybe you should ask her, instead of arguing with strangers about the need to outlaw happy meals.

[Luminous Animal]

108. Where did I say that I hid her from the world? That is your accusation not my assertion.

[Warren DeMontague]

115. That's between you and her.

I hope you guys work it out. Really.

[WolverineDG]

121. Oh, yes, you do think it's everyone else's job to raise your kid

you want to be the "good guy," the one who always says "yes" & never says "no," the one who doesn't have to teach their child anything, because it's so much easier for *YOU* to say "yes."

As for not watching TV or missing out on "cultural landmarks of contemporaries," she'll get over it. Not a good enough reason for parents to demand society cater to all of their whims so that they don't have to say "no."

dg

[KittyWampus]

74. Do realize how fucked up it is to support corporations assaulting children with sophisticated

marketing tools?

Children don't have the neurological faculties developed yet to withstand it.

And even adults who have developed the capacity to withstand advertising STILL EXPEND ENERGY IGNORING IT.

[Warren DeMontague]

89. I almost blew out a finger fast forwarding my DVR through commercials.

It's still sore.

[proteus_lives]

106. Arguing with control-freaks is like banging your head against the wall.

Isn't it?

Especially when it's mixed with the "it's everyone's fault but my own" attitude.

[Luminous Animal]

92. Indeed. I took care of my sister's children when my sister was in the hospital...

Here is the scenario when we went grocery shopping in Delaware... (FYI, I shop at an organic food co-op in San Francisco so this was quite an experience for all of us.)

Them: Put bubble gum yogurt in the shopping cart.
Me: I took it out and spent a long time looking at the sugar content of the other commercial yogurt and found that bubble gum yogurt was no worse than any other yogurt and let them keep it.

Them: Put Sunny D in the cart.
Me: Removed it and put in orange juice. They were pissed off.

Them: Put sugar cereal into the cart.
Me: I removed it and put in a big bag of puffed rice. They were pissed off.

Them: Put in boxes of sugar-laden instant oatmeal.
Me: Removed it and put in regular unsugared oatmeal. They were pissed off.

Them: Put in packaged lunchmeat.
Me: Took them out. They were pissed off.


This went on and on. I never spent so much time in a grocery store. I read every label from soup to bread to lunch meat to crackers to cookies.

In the end, my sister's kids hated me. Everything that they regularly ate was questioned and discarded.... Campbell's soup, frozen pizza, bread, "juice", cereal, yogurt, lunch meat... everything was larded with fat, salt, & sugar.

My sister is a good mom. But these are the choices that are presented to the average American. In those 3 hours in the grocery store, I told my niece and nephew "no", more than I did to my own child in 8 years. And it sucked.

[WolverineDG]

122. Your TV has an "OFF" button

if you don't know how to use it, please read your owner's manual.

Saying that advertising is "child abuse" :eyes: is the kind of thing that makes liberals look completely insane.

dg

[jeff47]

82. No, the intent behind the law is pathetic

It's a blatant attempt to scapegoat the fast food industry for parenting problems.

Childhood obesity does not come from happy meal toys. It comes from parents feeding their children high-calorie food and letting them sit on the couch all day. Because helicopter parents are terrified of letting their child play outside.

I assure you twinkies and ding-dongs can easily make kids fat without a toy.

[ibegurpard]

45. not generally a fan of him but glad he vetoed this

[FreeState]

47. Can we advertise cigarettes with cartoons now too?

Free toy with every pack!

[NNN0LHI]

52. They used cartoons at one time to sell cigarettes

Joe Camel

[RandySF]

50. I'm glad for the Board

I'm glad the Board and the Mayor were able to solve gang violence, homelessness, the budge deficit and fixing MUNI so they could move on to the really important issues like taking kids' toys out of their Happy Meals.

[WolverineDG]

53. Let's hope the board doesn't override his veto

to hell with the Nanny State authoritarians who want to control everyone & everything.

dg

[krabigirl]

71. Good for Gavin!

[KittyWampus]

73. Advertising TO children is fucked up. And DU'ers supporting it have a problem.

Mind-fucking children is a disgrace.

And since we are inundated with it, it's not just a matter of parents "parenting".

Imagine me constantly stepping in front of you as you walk down the street. Yes, you can do it, but it is a huge waste of time and energy. No one should have to combat the daily onslaught of propaganda thrown at CHILDREN who do not have the capacity to discriminate when it comes to advertising.

[Democat]

79. It's a Happy Meal.

No one is stopping you from walking down your street.

[Warren DeMontague]

87. It's a happy mind rape of the innocent meal, is what it is. HOW DARE YOU support the devastating

clear cutting of our children's mental forestry with the buzzsaw machinery of Ronald McDonald's patriarchal colonial oppression brainwashing apperatus.

You know who else liked Happy Meals? Hitler and Pol Pot, that's who.



..




:sarcasm:

[Luminous Animal]

94. You need to go back to the propaganda factory. Almost funny but not enough to be effective.

[Warren DeMontague]

96. Whereas you, I'm sure, are a barrel of laughs.

Like, using the time that your sister was hospitalized, and her kids were without their mom, as an opportunity to try to "correct" their diet? And you say they hated you? I can't imagine why. I bet you're REAL popular come 'round the Holidays, too.

[Luminous Animal]

107. I thought is was about choice? And an individual's freedom? I'd never seen the kind of food that..

they were putting in the cart. And when they were putting it in the cart, I didn't even know if it was the kind of food that my sister allowed them to eat or if they were trying to take advantage of the situation. It was stressful for us all.

By the way, by the end of my stay, my niece became an organic vegetarian. Which she still is (5 years later) to this day. We share recipes on FB.

[Warren DeMontague]

112. "It" is about the idiocy of outlawing happy meals.

Lots of people manage to feed their kids healthy and organic food without the government having to make those decisions for them. It's a dumb law.

[KittyWampus]

117. your attempt to use hyperbole demonstrates you have no argument to refute the FACT

that children are preyed upon by corporations with sophisticated marketing teams.

And it isn't just the one Happy Meal. It's the aggregate of daily messages thrown specifically at children who, again, don't have the developmental capability to withstand what's thrown at them.

[Warren DeMontague]

126. Robble Robble Robble.

[Democat]

78. Good!

This law made no sense to me.

[Ron Green]

84. Lots of people on this thread confuse the anecdotal with the societal.

"Don't buy it, then" is not a very good answer to "Propaganda is stacking the deck and causing general harm."

Oh, and then there's NANNY STATE! NANNY STATE!

Sheesh.

[Warren DeMontague]

90. Oh, I'm sure with the proper re-education and consciousness raising designed to promote awareness

of the so-called "individual's" total inability to formulate proper outcome-based life strategies (heretofore known, incorrectly, as "making choices") when faced not only with the societal context of capitalist imperialist oppression but also heteronormative patriarchal gender structures, in an environment saturated with corporate messaging, they would immediately see the iron-clad logic of passing a law against a kids meal that contains a plastic toy. :eyes:

[Luminous Animal]

97. The lead paint industry used similar propaganda to keep it's product on the market decades...

after most of Europe banned it.

Really... shouldn't so-called "individuals" choose to paint their baby's crib with toxic paint?

[Warren DeMontague]

100. Like I said. Abortion, Lead Paint, Happy Meals. They're all EXACTLY THE SAME.

If you think pot should be legalized, obviously you believe corporations should be free to put plutonium in the water supply.


Actually, the fact that you feel the need to keep bringing red herrings like lead paint into the argument means you simply can't defend outlawing happy meals on their own merits. Happy Meals aren't lead paint.

[Luminous Animal]

111. My arguemnt is about advertising. The lead paint industry advertised to children.

In fact, it was one of the first advertising campaigns to attempt to use children against their parents.

[Warren DeMontague]

113. And that is fucked up.

But lead paint and happy meals are not the same thing.

[KittyWampus]

118. right, and phthalates in baby pacifiers are just one itty-bitty exposure to toxic chemicals

Who cares?

Except it isn't just those phthalates in the pacifier. They're in the sippy cups, toys that go in the mouth etc. There's a world full of toxic chemicals surrounding us now. Just trace amounts in each single thing.

[Warren DeMontague]

127. If you want to argue with yourself, be my guest.

If you want to respond to what I've actually said, then do that.

[Warren DeMontague]

128. Know what would be fun?

If we could get all the people here who are outraged that the government won't outlaw happy meals, porn, and cheesecake filled pancakes---

and square them off against the people who think the government has no right to have any sort of security whatsoever pertaining to people getting on an airplane.

:popcorn:

[FSogol]

129. Can we get the government to ban leaf blowers? Their noise ruins my weekends of watching

my grass turn into forest.

[Warren DeMontague]

130. Back when I still drank, I lived in an apt. where someone would blast Mexican oom-pah music

in the parking lot every Saturday morning at 6:30.

I'll put that up against a leaf blower, any day. With a hangover? Horrible, just horrible.