6 million victims.

[ConsAreLiars]

Most who know the history of this sad and murderous planet will know that the corporatists who gained power in '30's Germany counted those they exterminated in the name of supremacy. 6 million of one ethnic group, and millions of others.

But how many know that their heirs. the corporatists who have held power in the US after hiring the best and brightest from that Reich, have claimed equal numbers murdered in Indochina? See http://www.archive.org/details/SixMillionVictimsDocumentedSourceMaterialOnTheHumanCostOfThe

And a million Iraqis under Clinton and millions more under his utterly evil successors and millions driven into exile. and the same for Afghanistan beginning with Carter.

Where does the US stand in history? "Not yet as evil as Nazi Germany" may be a claim you want to make. I'd agree.

But when US/CIA actions in Latin America and Africa are added to the pile of facts, and the day to day atrocities in Afghanistan and loosely targeted murderings continue across the planet. Add a ???, Maybe those in power in the US have already reached a degree of psychopathic evil that the Nazis could only aspire to.

Are we there yet? Heading there, for sure, and for a long time.

(edit to add some)

[mahina]

1. I was just thinking about this.

Wondering what my personal responsibility is to the people in Iraq and Afghanistan, feeling overwhelmed and unable to help.

What was done in Central America in our name and with our money was so wrong an so evil, but so few of us know about it. We should have had a massive reaction to that in this country, like a body rejecting a sickness. Instead it just went away with time, but the wrongs were never addressed legally, at least not as far as I know.

Kind of like how if we don't prosecute for the wrongs in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004, we set the stage for the next round.

I know there are mothers in Iraq and Afghanistan who can't feed their kids tonight because of us, and it feels unbearable.

[azurnoir]

2. and the refugee's who fled Iraq

Current Humanitarian Situation
Refugees International has observed extreme vulnerabilities among the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi refugees living in Syria, Jordan, and other parts of the region, as well as the millions of internally displaced persons within Iraq. Most refugees have not been granted legal status and thus live in limbo, often without access to basic services and work opportunities. Many persons displaced within the country have no access to assistance, basic levels of protection, or any hope of return to their original homes.

While the Government of Iraq is well situated to generate significant revenue from its oil reserves, it will take years if not decades before these resources reach the most vulnerable. Currently the Government of Iraq lacks both the capacity and the political will to use its resources to address humanitarian needs. At the same time the continued lack of security makes it nearly impossible for UN international staff to access the populations in most need of assistance. Local NGOs often have the best connections and access but are often not directly funded by international donors.

Though there have been some returns of both internally displaced and refugees, the majority have not been able to access their original homes and properties. Their properties have been occupied or destroyed. Ongoing violence, especially in the central provinces, coupled with a lack of jobs, basic social services, and opportunities, makes voluntary return impossible for most. While Refugees International hopes that Iraqis will be able to return to their homes in the future, the necessary conditions for returns to take place in safety and dignity still do not exist. Local integration of IDPs may be a solution for some and should be actively considered by the Government of Iraq.

http://www.refugeesinternational.org/where-we-work/middle-east/iraq

[Scruffy1]

3. And anti-war activists are being raided by our FBI

[ConsAreLiars]

4. All that evil was done in the name of hegemony and supremacy.

And behind the jingoist lingo, the fact that transnational capitalism, by its very nature, must always expand and control ever more of the labor and raw resources of the world.

And contrast this reality to one in which all the accumulated wealth and power in the US, or maybe even most, might have been used to heal and help and build, instead of to kill and steal and destroy.

(minor edit)

[azurnoir]

5. all true but I have a problem with the article and the source

they seem to absolve the US of any responsibility and place it on Iraq, Jordan, and Syria the whole situation is the creation or fault if you will of the US and our (illegal)invasion of Iraq and secondly they seem so concerned about every refugee population on Earth save one and that one is only prominent in it's complete and total absence, even the section concerning statelessness

[ConsAreLiars]

6. Sorry, please post the source you found that absolved

the US for its murderous atrocities after Vietnam/Indochina. The article I linked was written and copyrighted before 1972. My guess is that you hit some other site. The open source parent site at http://www.archive.org/details/opensource has a whole lotta stuff, but the docs I cited stand on their own.

[azurnoir]

8. I did not say completely however if you read

the article from the link I posted says this for the US

Seven years after the U.S. military occupation of Iraq, the country continues to face large scale displacement and pressing humanitarian needs.

<snip>

U.S. policy must:

1. Continue to generously fund the UN assistance appeal.
2. Continue resettlement for refugees who cannot go home.
3. Pressure Iraq to meet its responsibilities to its own people.
4. Work closely with the UN to ensure greater UN access inside Iraq.

that is the beginning and the end of the article in between it is quite busy castigating Arab governments in particular the Iraqi which is under stress enough, the refuge problem is OUR mess and no one else's to deal with albeit it is others who are
that coupled with being a site that is dealing with the rights of refugees the absence of one group from any mention irritates me to put it mildly

[ConsAreLiars]

9. Thank you for adding that.

More of the same, then but much later.

[sabrina 1]

7. Very well said ~

I remember a few years ago when it was reported in the news that some of the detainees in Guantanamo Bay were on a hunger strike. I felt sick. It was around the holidays. It was cold and raining but everyone was busy getting ready for the holidays. Not one single person I met mentioned the horrors that were going on in the evil place. I wonder if they even knew about it.

I thought of the families of those desperate men and what they must be going through. Like you, I found it unbearable to think about them. We KNOW. Unlike the German people, some of whom who claim they did not know, no one in this country or around the world, can make that claim. I know there are so many good people who tried to stop it. But, they couldn't and even with the eyes of the world on them, the U.S. government would not relent and at least treat those innocent human beings humanely.

I learned later that some died rather than live in that hellhole. And no one did anything to help them.

Sometimes it is all too much. It is evil. It is right in front of us but we make excuses, shamefully. This country will not prosecute torturers. That puts us in the same category as every other evil regime throughout history. Any outrage over this evil, has been silenced since our party won. Anyone who continued to focus on it, was basically considered to be disloyal to the party.

Some things don't change, no matter how much history has taught us. I don't know what to do to try to help those mothers in Iraq. Our government and far too many of the American people do not believe that torture is wrong so long as the latest scapegoats are the victims. Can we sink any lower? If someone doesn't stop us, I think we can and we will. Because there are no consequences.