The Dems might get enough votes, but the machines are fixed
Forget the polls showing a Dem resurgence. Don't we remember that the GOP has rigged the machines in half the country? Unlimited resources without ethics or scruples and only a desire for power does not end well. And we cannot count on the MSM or the general public to do anything about it.
13. Well explain this one..in Ohio in the last Bush election why
did the servers counting the votes go thru the servers in the white house that were set up to take care of Rove and the republicans email and electronic system. It was made CLEAR AND SHOWN and no body did any thing.
You tell me that it didn't mean something that this happened.
55. I think in Ohio in 2004 it was more like 7+% -please read
Morrow County went for Bush with 67% in 2000. In 2004 it went for Bush with 60%. It is a VERY SMALL county & Republican, so there would have been no reason to tinker with the results there so they didn't. Because jumoing the vote total there by 7-8% would have netted very few total number of votes.
My point is that if he LOST 7% off of 2000 in 2004 in Morrow Co, then in more populous Democratic areas of the state such as Toledo and Dayton he would have lost even MORE than 7% of his total, BUT HE DIDN't. He gained over his 2000 totals. So the steal had to be bigger than 7% in those areas. And, my guess is that with each election cycle that this goes 'undetected' they increase the % of the steal.
Hey if no one in the Democratic Party hierarchy is going to call them on it, why the hell not? That's how they operate in all spheres. Rig the game and steal as much as you have to and if no one calls you, steal more.
Not only will I vote, I'm actively working the GOTV efforts in my own precinct. Here in MN, we're very careful with our election results. We have an excellent system in place and it's been seriously tested by the Al Franken election. Maybe you should move here.
39. Well, I'll say this: You sure seem enamored of the word
"fuck." I'm not sure that really helps you. English is a wonderful language, full of ways to express your ideas. Try using some other words and maybe people won't just pass by your posts. Any child can use the word "fuck" in a sentence.
47. In an election as close as that one, it's not at all surprising that
it took 6 months. We have a very detailed process spelled out for recounts in our laws. We have very strict standards for absentee ballots and those standards have to be met if an absentee ballot is counted. We also have laws that describe what is meant by the "intent of the voter."
The initial recount actually went fairly quickly. But, we also have laws regarding challenges that take the process through legal steps. In that process, each disputed ballot must be examined physically, with representatives of both parties on hand.
The bottom line: Once it was all done, the system we use for our elections was shown to have produced an accurate result. That the election was so close brought the final results into question. Our law requires an automatic full recount in elections that close. That was done, and to the letter of the law.
The election was not rigged by either side. The votes of the individual voters in the state were counted accurately. It was close. Very close. So close that extraordinary efforts were needed to make sure it was properly counted. That took 6 months.
The machines worked just fine, and we had paper ballots to back it up. It is a very good system. We take elections very seriously here in Minnesota.
53. Tell us about the system in your state. How does it work?
I saw that thread. I know about the hacks. Now, tell me about the system of voting in your state. You needn't tell me the state. Tell me how it has been corrupted. Show me evidence in that particular state. Then, tell me what you're doing to get changes made, if they're needed.
56. That's just too general. Take your state and tell us about
Edited on Sun Oct-24-10 02:02 PM by MineralMan
how it handles voting, specifically. What machines does it use? How does the system operate. What are the checks and balances. How are very close elections handled.
Specifics, please. General references are useless. Many states use verifiable processes. What does your state do?
I told you about Minnesota and how the system works. I provided specifics. There's no evidence of election fraud here. You're going to have to do better than just "half the states" and that sort of general stuff.
59. Optical scan is good, as long as the paper ballots are retained
properly and can be checked. Does your state compare machine results with hand counts in test precincts? Minnesota does. So far, all those tests have shown an accurate count. Why do you believe your optical scanning hardware is compromised? Is there any evidence of that? Or are you just speculating because you don't like the results you've seen?
What triggers a recount in your state? Is there a threshold that causes an automatic recount? Can a candidate demand a recount? There are so many questions, and I feel like I'm having to pull the answers out of you, one by one. You have not described the process. You've just named the systems.
78. It also helped that we had an honest Secretary of State overseeing the job
and that Mary Kiffmeyer was not still in that office. Had she been, I have no doubt the recount would have gone to Coleman the first time through the ballots. I'm sure Republicans would disagree but I have no doubts that our current SOS, Mark Ritchie, oversaw the whole process honestly.
The second saving grace was that we have a State Supreme Court that, even though most the appointees were put there by Republicans, also acted with integrity.
The recount showed what flaws exist with optical scanners and the way absentee ballots are handled. We are fortunate that we had paper ballots to back up the computer counts, the scanner counts were not accurate as they did not count every ballot correctly - if they had the election would have ended in November 2008.
Don't kid yourself that elections in Minnesota cannot be tampered with. It all depends on who is running the show.
By appealing to the prejudices and baser instincts of a certain brand of voter, or which there are many. Even in liberal California I know a shitload of super-duper far-right folks -- conservatism and right-wingery are far more widespread and common than you seem to think.
GWB was originally installed by the Supremes, of course, but that's rather a separate discusion.
Your nastiness is neither warranted nor appreciated, by the way. Calm down a bit.
57. The vote riggers ( Bu$hco) wasn't about to give McCain 8 years
Is why they stepped back. My guess is they were doing some testing in places they had never done so before just to see if they were detected, or they did take 3-4% and that was only a drop in the bucket for what they needed to steal it.
41. I'm very worried about that, and not sure if there is anything we can do about it.
John Kerry WON in Ohio in 2004, and we all know that. What is most disturbing about it is the collective refusal of the Democratic Party to do anything about it--with the exception of my Senator Barbara Boxer, who had the guts to stand up and challenge the Ohio vote.
44. yes--no reason to celebrate unless we have an overwhelming turnout
anonymous election officials can touch a few keys and make anybody they want look like they won. Until we fix that obvious flaw, we have no democracy. Why is this being ignored? We have all the proof a reasonable person would need for at least an investigation. Dems are too scared to take on this issue; the Pukkkes have branded it as crazy talk, and that's death for any issue, apparently.
The fact that private companies control all the voting machines should concern everyone. Gambling machines are regulated better then voting machines and that's a fact. The nay sayers hear must have forgot the demonstration on TV on how a machine could be flipped in minutes. You may also try reading black box voting by Bev Ross. It's recent history perhaps the closed minded, Obama at any cost, cheer leaders have forgot.
Alleging that "the GOP has rigged the machines in half the country" ignores how the Republicans managed to lose in 2006 and 2008, or why they'd need to spend Karl Rove's $$$ if they can just push a button.
I'd suggest that all this talk about rigged voting machines was disinfo to distract from the real problem of good old fashioned ratfucking and vote suppression. I mean, fucking seriously, that Arizona law was all about voter suppression, not to mention the flat out racist laws that strip the right to vote from anyone convicted of a felony. These are orders of magnitude more important, both tactically and from a "justice for all" and "equal protection under the law" standpoint.
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