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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 09:46 PM
Original message
I did something tonight I would be ashamed of...
Edited on Thu Oct-21-10 09:56 PM by liberalmuse
a year ago. I pulled up a sign that said, 'Jay Inslee, Bankrupting America' while walking my dog along the highway, and I tossed it into a ditch. I've had enough. Yes, I believe in free speech, but if you are a lying piece of shit, and you happen to have the money to be able to spread those lies, perhaps someone who truly believes in free speech might fuck it up by tossing your $20 sign into a ditch where it belongs.

My mom is dying of Breast Cancer. I remember her working two and sometimes three jobs (including many graveyard shifts) and raising three kids so she didn't have to go on welfare. The Republicans are calling her 'lazy' and they want to pull the rug out from under her. She is, after all, a freeloader who should be left to die because her bank account says she is a worthless piece of shit, undeserving of the health care or any other benefits the public treasury was designated to fund. As her daughter, I should be able to care for her with my many assets. The thing is, I've lived through 4 Republican administrations, and those bastards loot the public treasury, and lap it up like greedy, hungry pigs at the trough (I first heard this analogy in the '80's, and it has been proven time and time again.) They didn't leave the likes of me with much to work with. President Obama is trying to turn things around, but in my 47 years on this planet, in this country, there has been too much ignorance and apathy - this is what this man is fighting against - he's trying to hold back an avalanche of karma, and every one of you reading this knows we have it coming. This is our just desserts. I don't know what grace in the Universe gave us President Obama at this point, but hell, I'll take it. My mom, who voted for Bush TWICE was weeping on the phone the other day because she felt that this man was being raked through the coals for something he had no part in.

Millions of us 'worthless pieces of shit' are contributing our meager dollars from meager paychecks so the fire departments in our communities don't stand by and toast marshmallows and crack jokes while our houses burn to the ground. We 'worthless pieces of shit' don't mind contributing to libraries, roads and schools, and to help make life better for the whole. Some call it 'communisim'. I call it fucking 'Humanity'. I guess if we threw our money at wars like so many of the corporations have done, our status would rise a bit.

Tonight I threw a bold-faced lie printed on a sign into a ditch, and I would do it again. Republicans, Go To Hell.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R. Well said and I don't blame you a bit.
Best wishes to your mom and I have to admit that I've been tempted, too... :(
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Kudos !....Wait a few days and go back and piss on it !
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good!!!
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. My heart and best wishes to you
and Mom. :hug:

This country should be so damn ashamed but, these pigs have no shame.
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Lifelong Protester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wish I were there with you
and my prayers and good vibes to you and your mom.

And believe me, I am sorely tempted...
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LongTomH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Right on!
And our thoughts and prayers will be with you and your Mom!
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm with you....let's have a poll....
Is it wrong to smack down a lying puke if the lying puke is destroying your country?

1) Yes, it's always wrong to smack down others.

2) No, extreme circumstances warrant extreme measures.

3) Maybe, if there's no such thing as a 'just conflict'.

4) Other.


....I vote number 2, the only realistic choice....

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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ironically, there was a Republican character in GRAND THEFT AUTO: VICE CITY...
...that espoused many of the ridiculous notions that Inslee's GOP opponent apparently supported. Here's Florida Congressman Alex Shrub in a radio interview that can be hear during gameplay:

Heh, you won't see a penny out of me! You've got to stop spreading these lies or I'll whip you myself and I'm not afraid. The Constitution inserts a man's right to bear arms and, and arm bears, and all points in between. Who ever heard of a gun or a bear causing problems? This is all cockypop, or whatever that word is. It keeps the place safe. Trouble is caused by unemployment, and unemployment comes from poor economic performance and lazy people. If you had a job, would you steal a car? Of course not! And if you had a high-rise condo, a mistress, uh, and a seat on the board, would you run around graffitiing your name all over town and making a nuisance of yourself, spinning on your back, and poppin' and lockin' and - not a hope. It's simple; if you don't have a job, starve; get out of my constituency by force if necessary, and starve.

That's quite simple. Are you really saying that?

Of course I am. Vice City is a growing city, and of course there are going to be some growing pains. Well, what I tell people is this: Gather up your life savings, buy yourself a piece of swamp, drain it, and get rid of the damn wildlife, then apply for planning permission. Pretty soon, you can have your own retirement community or resort destination holiday place. You can start making money out of the boom, the Shrub-inspired boom, and enjoy the kind of things sensible people have - personal bodyguards, massive fences, and a bigger
collection of guns than the other guy. It stands to reason.


Over the top? Honestly, I wonder how many real-world Republicans would say the same thing if they thought they could get away with it.

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Tutankhamun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
86. Those radio stations are one of my favorite parts of GTA.
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. At least you don't live in the Minnesota area where
they show the Ron Johnson ads because our cable company services both the Wisconsin and Minnesota areas. If I hear that POS say one one time that Russ Feingold is responsible for the deficit I am going to send a letter to him and tell him he is a POS to end all POS's. Can you imagine any bigger lie. Most of the deficit Obama has was caused by Bush's wars and the lack of taxes from Bush's tax cuts to the rich.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. I was delivering pamphlets for one leftist party when I came upon signs destroyed
by "kids" of another leftist party. I knocked on the doors of the houses where this happened and asked the people if they wanted me to send out a crew from campaign x to fix the signs. They said no but were touched that I seemed to care. I wouldn't do that if it were a conservative sign that had been destroyed. I'm sorry but they are at war with us on the left. They can go to hell.
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. Sorry about your mom...
But your actions were wrong.

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The Midway Rebel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yup...and sometimes you just gotta'do something...
even it's wrong.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
59. I disagree. Her actions were exactly what Republicans call
'free speech'. When O'Reilly kills the mike on someone he doesn't agree with, they cheer and claim O'Reilly was just exercising HIS right to free speech.

When Rush Limbaugh lies about good Democrats, they call it his right to interpret correctly what the Democrat is really all about and he has the right to 'express' those views.

They have so distorted the free speech clause in the Constitution that they have effectively destroyed it.

But we, good little citizens that we are, have tried to abide by the rule of law. So THEY never feel the consequences of their THEIR interpretations.

Sometimes in the 'course of human history' it becomes necessary to teach the bad guys a lesson before they completely destroy everything.

'Fighting fire with fire'. They never expect US to use THEIR tactics against them and call it 'our right' to do so.

So, I'm all for giving them the world they say they want and let them experience it when they are also the victims of their own rules.

I would not mind writing 'lie' across every lying sign they put up. With an explanation. That would be real free speech.

But according to them every action is an 'expression' of free speech no matter how false, so I think the OP was well within their interpretation of 'free speech'.

I remember them telling me that burning the Dixie Chicks' CDs was THEIR free speech. That the Dixie Chicks DID have a right to say what they said about Bush, but THEY had the right to destroy them for doing so. That certainly was not the sentiment of the FFs when they put that 1st Amendment into the Constitution. But, if that's how they want it and are succeeding, then they learn that two can play that game. Something they are shocked to discover, as bulies believe only they have rights.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. I totally agree with you and with the OP.
RE But we, good little citizens that we are, have tried to abide by the rule of law. So THEY never feel the consequences of their THEIR interpretations.

Sometimes in the 'course of human history' it becomes necessary to teach the bad guys a lesson before they completely destroy everything.

'Fighting fire with fire'. They never expect US to use THEIR tactics against them and call it 'our right' to do so.

So, I'm all for giving them the world they say they want and let them experience it when they are also the victims of their own rules.


"Fighting fire with fire." I think what pisses me off so much about the Repukes is that they NEVER expect us to play by THEIR rules (for themselves) and act so shocked and pissed off when we do.

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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #59
99. Well said Sabrina 1!
I have always believed the Dixie Chicks were destroyed by Juniors comments! Their words didn't hurt him....I will never forgive the Republicans for the devastation laid upon those very talented women.
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #59
106. So, "Free Speech"
Is removing or defacing opposing candidates campaign signs?

That's exceptionally disturbing.
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
13. I have been tempted so many times to do the same thing
but I have the kind of luck that I would be seen by the cops.
I never do anything wrong..because it does not matter how small I get caught. So I make sure I am correct..now to figure out how to mount some paint guns to the car so i can splatter them with drippy bloody looking paint.....
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
14. what law allows them to put those beside every road and stop light anyway?
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 07:11 AM by KurtNYC
real estate and political signs clutter the roadways without regard to public safety, zoning or property rights.
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Scruffy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
40. It is illegal to put signs on public property in all states
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #40
89. Yes it is - so next time deposit it in the closest trash can.
If anyone ask why or what you are doing, simply state you are picking up the trash and beautifying the community.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #40
90. Wrong.
Though for the location the OP specified it is illegal to place these signs in the public right-of-way.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
15. I'm trying to feel some condemnation for what you did.
Nope, can't do it. Seems reasonable to me!

My sympathies for your mom. All of my grandmother's sisters died of breast cancer (yearly mammograms for me!) so I know how absolutely horrible it is.

Communal responsibility is humanitarianism. Indeed!
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
16. Sorry for your mom, sorry for your situation, but I can't condone your violation of free speech
Would you condone somebody ripping off a sign in your yard?

Sorry, but free speech trumps all, and you simply don't violate the free speech of others in such a manner.
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AnnetteJacobs Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. Yeah, and it just gives the wingnuts reason to cry foul
Unrec.
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
63. DO you think they NEED a reason to cry foul.
Crying foul is what they do. They are big babies / victims. Crying foul is their reason for living.
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bullsnarfle Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. Not in a yard
Read it again, Madhound - the sign was on the side of a highway, NOT in someone's yard. In my neck of the woods, these signs are called "snipe signs" and they are ILLEGAL....anyone is perfectly welcome to pull up an illegal snipe sign anytime they want, just like a noxious weed. There are only a few exceptions (such as realtor's limited-time open house signs, and business signs temporarily displaced by road work), most of which you have to pay the city a fee and get a permit to display.
I have no remorse whatsoever for pulling up any snipe signs I see, of ANY affiliation, and disposing of them in the dumpster. It is illegal littering of our streets and highways, no less than throwing garbage out of your car window would be. Actually, that would be the only thing I might chide liberalmuse for - not disposing of the "trash" properly. And it would be a very mild chiding indeed, all things considered.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. And perhaps the person who owned that land, by the side of the highway,
Was the one who put it there, or approved of that sign being put there. Sorry, but nothing in the description indicates that it was a "snipe sign".

If you want to approve of a sign being put on your property, whether it is next to a city street or a highway, then nobody has the right to pull it out and throw it away.

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bullsnarfle Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. Don't think so
Don't think so; the side of a street, road, or highway is virtually always owned by a government entity, ex: city, county, state, etc.; it is called a right-of-way, or easement, and although an adjacent property owner may be held liable for maintenance of said easement (such as mowing the grass), and maintaining any improvements as well (such as a city-installed sidewalk) it is still not their personal property to do with as they choose.
The extent (how many yards from the roads edge inward) of the right-of-way may vary from place to place, but it is almost always there, whether you are aware of it or not.
I have had more than a couple of dust-ups with my local bureaucrats over this very issue, enough to be fairly certain of the validity of my position.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. Key words in your post, "local bureaucrats"
It depends on the local property laws. Where I live, and in many other states, the owner of a property owns that property right to the edge of the highway, no easement, no right of way. I know this because I've checked into it before over a matter concerning my family's property.

Easements and right of ways aren't universal, and in many states not even existent. If the city wants to expand the highway or road, they have to buy the land they need, they don't already own it.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. I don't always agree..
with all of your posts, but I do agree with you on this.

Where I live, we too own the land right out to the road. If I have a sign out by the road that someone else doesn't like, he or she doesn't have the right to pull it up and throw it into the gully.


People who cheer this sort of thing on would probably be complaining up and down about someone else coming along and yanking up a sign he or she didn't like...whether it was on the treebelt or on their property.

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bullsnarfle Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. Fine
Fine, perhaps liberalmuse lives way out in the sticks or in Alaska or something. In every state I have lived (we are talking non-rural areas) with the possible exception of Alaska (they make up their own rules and damn the lower-forty-eight) there have been government-owned easements. I still believe it is entirely possible, even probable, that liberalmuse pulled a sign from a local govt easement.
However -
I am not trying to perpetuate an argument here; arguing for argument's sake is puerile, and this will be my last post on this subject.

Campaign signs are eyesores that tend to litter highways, and especially intersections, like mcdonalds wrappers and dumped-out car ashtrays. Also, the people that put them out never do come back and get them, so our tax dollars pay for removing the god damn things in the end. Your right to free speech does not include illegally littering your sign crap all over my "local" streets, and I will continue to pull up and throw out all that I see illegally infesting my neighborhood.

Rant over, peace out, everyone have a good weekend.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:17 AM
Original message
Question for you,
Do you pull up the signs of Democratic candidates, or on ballot propositions that you agree with?
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
64. I don't get it. How is this a violation of free speech.
Please use actual court cases and precident to explain if you are so inclined.

I'm serious. I don't see how removing a sign (I asume from public property where it has no legal right to be) and tossing it away is against free speech laws. Littering laws - yes. Free speech - no.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #64
78. I'm so with you on this.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #64
92. Collier vs. Tacoma (1993), Washington State Supreme Court
Of course, you probably wouldn't know, if you weren't a Washington State Resident. Your state may differ.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
17. Sorry about your Mom, but teabaggers think they have valid
excuses for doing the same thing. It's wrong.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
18. i'm glad you did it.
many years ago i did something similar. i could see a (damn! i can't remember the election, possibly 2000) (let's go with 2000) Gore sign had already been uprooted and thrown into a lot that was under construction, so i did the same thing to the bush sign that had uprooted it. i'd do it again too.

so sorry about your mother.
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AndrewP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
19. Republicans can go to hell
Good for you
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mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
20. Amen, sister
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
21. I'm beginning to think that until we become more like the French protesters
in the streets, things will never change here.

The GOP/Teabagger/Corporatist bloc in this country has debased political discourse to such a point, has poisoned and coarsened any common ground we may have once had in America that heated but respectful debate is no longer possible.

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janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. But it isn't nice . . .
It isn't nice to block the doorway,
It isn't nice to go to jail,
There are nicer ways to do it
But the nice ways always fail.
It isn't nice, it isn't nice,
You told me once, you told me twice,
But if that's Freedom's price,
We don't mind.

- Malvina Reynolds
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
84. I think you're correct. And it's unfortunate to see what's happened. But it HAS happened.
That's what we're dealing with now. So frankly I don't mind a little discourtesy shown back at them. I don't like being rude either but when you see how often they interrupt and are snarky and smart-ass (just saw a clip with little miss christine the Delaware Ding Dong), the ONLY way to fight back is to interrupt BACK. Taste of their own medicine. See how they like it. They should be treated the way their behavior proves that they DESERVE to be treated.

Even dr. laura said repeatedly that you don't reward bad behavior!
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Erose999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
23. A tea bagger candidate for gen. assembly put up a sign in front of our house in the primaries...

My 4 roommates and I all voted on whether or not to pull it up and the vote was 4-1 for pulling it up (one of them wanted to keep it because he sympathized with that candidate and even knew his daughter). So we pulled up the sign, but then there was a debate about whether or not we would allow a more agreeable candidate to put up a sign and then have a message in the yard that didn't represent everyone in the house unanimously.

So what we decided on was a "no-sign" policy for the yard. Until there's a candidate that all 5 of us want to endorse (highly unlikely), the yard will remain sign free.
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
98. What right did they have to place it there in the first place?
If it was private property.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
24. Why litter? Can't you find a trash can?
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1955doubledie Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
26. Jay Inslee is bankrupting America?
I never knew he was a defense contractor or a bank CEO. :shrug:
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
28. I don't blame you one bit for throwing
that piece of garbage in the ditch!

I'm so sorry to hear about your Mom's illness!
You are all in my thoughts and prayers.

:hug: :grouphug:
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
30. K&R
n/t
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The empressof all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
31. The Koch brothers are going to start infusing money against Jay
Watch your blood pressure....It's bad enough having to listen to them smear Patty but it's just going to be worse having to see commercials against Jay. The robo calls have increased to. Don't hang up....let them drag on to the end. The longer you keep the tape going on your deaf ears it will keep them away from the more vulnerable.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
96. Good point about letting them drone on. I hadn't thought about that.
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ckimmy57 Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
32. Hats off to you
I don't give a rats ass about "oh, you shouldn't mess with political signs" and etc. bullshit. Pull that freakin sign up and wing it as far as you can. ... :fistbump:
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
34. Good for you.
I suppose the people who oppose this have a point, but I still get a giggle every time I remember when we did that one night in 2006, when Virginia wanted to amend our constitution to keep GLBTQIers from ever getting married. It passed, by the way. I had had a couple of drinks, and hubby was driving us home. There was a huge sign by the side of the road next to an interstate off-ramp. It was a lovely message stating that "marriage = one man and one woman". We pulled over, pulled that sucker right out of the ground, heaved it into the back seat, high-fived each other, and drove off.

Maybe I should be ashamed, but I'm not. Again, good for you! :)
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Deadgnome Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
35. Shoulda burnt it.
Guess you could always go back and burn it. Just don't forget your ski mask...
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The Uncola Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
37. We are in a battle..
.. for our lives, taking actions that we once wouldn't consider doing, will become routine. This is a cultural war, make no mistake. There is no guilt is doing the right thing, which is taking on these lying bastards a on every level and beating them down with whatever means is available.
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
38. I can only hope your dog added an exclamation point to your action.
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 11:09 AM by jtuck004
Free speech is one thing, but the structural limits the wealthy and politically connected force on the majority of the rest of society limits speech in a number of ways. We complain that people don't get involved, but realistically how much energy do people have after working 1, 2, 3 or more soul-sucking jobs just trying to keep a roof and food available?

Now that SCOTUS has ruled that corporations can use their ability to create a profit while treating workers like crap to voice opinions in a much larger venue than most groups can, perhaps what you did is one of the only outlets left for resistance.

I don't know Inslee, but I will trust your judgment that he is far more likely to be bankrupting America, which removes his right to lambast others with a self-righteous sign about it.

But there's always another sign...

We will have some good thoughts for your mom.
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ThatsMyBarack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
39. Ballsy!
Good job! :applause:
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felix_numinous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
41. RW fights dirty
and we are supposed to sit around at just take it? Taking signs down and replacing them, communicating any and every way possibly are examples of the many forms of peaceful dissent we are entitled to, and in fact directed to do if we witness the laws of the land being ignored.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. They do, and apparently their actions are so admirable
that so-called "Liberals" think it's fine to be just like them.

"Hey!! Those people are scumbags!!! I have a great idea, though...let's be just LIKE them!!! Yeah!!!"


sigh...

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The Uncola Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. Those of us...
... that actually have spines, aren't bent over backwards to kiss our enemy's rear, quite as easily as those that don't.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #46
110. Bah...call it what you want...
it's still basically sinking to the same level.

Mucking around in the same shit hole, only it's easier to do it when one actually believes the shit doesn't stick to their own feet as well.


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The Uncola Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #110
111. How's that...
... whole "bi-partisan" thing working out for you?
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felix_numinous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #43
66. You are technically right
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 03:03 PM by felix_numinous
it is just so frustrating to be against such people. Perhaps putting another sign next to it is a better idea.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #66
109. Yep...I think that would probably be the best way to handle it...n/t
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
68. I remember Paul Wellstone.
And I can tell you that Paul expected the RW to play dirty. He beleived in FIGHTING for what is right. That is probably what got him killed (note to any progressive thinking about flying anywhere in a small plane - democratic politicians are 6 times as likely to die in a small plane crash than republicans (according to the FAA website and some massaging of the stats)).

That being said he was fond of telling campaign workers that "their job during the election was to get to 50% of the vote plus 1. Get the WIN and THEN we can enact our legislative agenda. But until we win, we can't do anything."

So it's our job to get to 50% plus one vote. We have to WIN.
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
45. It's either the sign or us in that ditch
you made the right choice.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
47. Hell, I tear
down signs that just have their silly repugnant names on them. I wouldn't have done that a year ago either.

And don't get me started on the repugnant bumper stickers...some say such horrid things. 'Extremely Rightwing' was one. The other, 'Support our Troops especially the snipers.' Does this dude think he is the only one w/ Free Speech. I really wanted to get this dude to hit me so I could put him in jail...I told him so. 'Come on, big boy, let me have it...then you can be someone's bitch in jail all weekend long. See how life really is.'

I wouldn't have done this a year ago...but I'm to the point that I really don't care anymore.

He got in his Jeep and rode off.

I hate using that word, 'bitch,' but in this case I knew it would really bug him, not me. I'm sorry....should I have said 'whore.' Why aren't there really bad names for dudes? Just goes to show that in our patriarchy, the worst thing one call a dude is a 'girl.'

My best to your mom. My mom worked three jobs when I was in college...even though I had scholarship, grants and loans. She really didn't have to do so...but since she had lost her 'good' job, she wanted to make the same amount of money...which meant 3 jobs.

I hate what this country has become....a cesspool.
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Llewlladdwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
48. Wow.
So it seems that a large number of DUers support vandalizing or destroying campaign signs. Sad...
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
49. The ACLU likes to say the answer to offensive speech is more speech.
I think that applies here, regardless of whether the sign was placed illegally or not.

Although perhaps less satisfying, a better approach would have been to put up your own sign.
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #49
70. She did say something.
She "voiced" a disagreement with the GOP assbag and his sign.

Perhaps not the most erudite of free speach responses, but it might still have been protected speech.
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. But her actions silenced another's speech.
That's where the action crosses a line, IMO. Her rights end where the dickwad's begin.

I also look askance at attempts to broaden the definition of speech. Performance art, sure; political contributions, no; this action, perhaps.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
50. K
and R.

I'm so sorry about your Mom Liberalmuse.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
51. A great post. My condolences on your mother's condition.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
52. Thanks for cleaning up my congressional district! I would have done
it too -- especially for Inslee. He's one of the very best!

I'm sorry about your mom - my mom had breast cancer, too. :hug:
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
53. Would you be strong enough to send this in to your local editorial page?
There are so many of us who feel the same and are screaming into the abyss. We need to see your words expressing our thoughts. That is one reason we are all here. If you feel like you can, please send this in and maybe someone will be strong enough to throw off the lies of all things right wing and help save our country from the grand delusion.Thanks for sharing this with us.
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anachro1 Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
54. That's quite alright
I'm actually fond of snapping people FISH symbols off their cars.
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The Midway Rebel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Not even the same thing. eom
Theif.
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
71. Hmmmm. Not sure if I agree with that.
Try replacing it with one of these. <http://www.rof.com/Jeebus-Fish-Car-Emblem_p_36.html >
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Llewlladdwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #54
80. You should probably bust their headlights too.
Maybe key the car as well. That'll show those christers!
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
55. there is no free speech when money determines the size of your megaphone. under those
circumstances, sabotage = morally justified.
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BlueCollar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
56. k&r...n/t
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political_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
58. You are feeling the pangs of fighting back. It is never a bad thing.
Harness it Nd try to make a difference so that people like yourself and your mom never suffer from this type of system again.

Best wishes to you and your mom. :hug:

Hope things get better for you.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
60. hang in there, liberalmuse. I hug you
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
61. My condolences about your mother.
But I can't condone the the violation of free speech. It's not right and it brings you down to their level.

Fight back the right way.
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drlindaphd Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
62. I am so sorry about your Mom
I can understand what you did and I do not condemn you for a nanosecond. The president is trying his best to fight the horrific medical system we have in this country. I am a psychologist and therefore a provider. I see many people at no charge or a reduced charge. I am not tooting my own horn, I just believe I have special knowledge for a reason and that reason is to help my fellow human beings. Money is not the issue here. Alleviating pain and suffering is.

Health care should never have been made for profit. I remember when it happened back in the early 80s. A for profit health care system, in my opinion, is obscene. Money paid into the system should be paid for patient care. Yes, providers have to eat and live. They have to support their families. But we do not have to be millionaires. If we want to work for money we can become movie stars, sports stars, or politicians. Yes money has to be put into research, but put into the work itself, not stockholder profit.

Medical decisions ought to be made by medical professionals, not bean counters, accountants, or money managers of any sort. There is no room for completion in medical care. The only roll the government has is to be the single payer, not the decision maker when it comes to care. Leave that up to the doctor and the patient.

Oh, and this might be unpopular with some people, but religious groups don't get a vote in medical decisions either. We do not have a state religion and my faith may be different than yours. Members of my faith do not have the right to tell members of your faith what they can or cannot do with their bodies or health decisions and visa versa. The government has no business making those decisions for us and neither does a church or synagogue or mosque.

Liberalmuse- again, I wish your mother the best. In my opinion, you did nothing you have to be ashamed of.
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DesertDiamond Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
65. Liberalmuse, thank you for saying this! Yes! What we are dealing with is our karma.
Once we take responsiblity we can change it. I see President Obama doing some great things, and I strongly disagree with some things, and I say so. But he has a huge, huge job and the fact is he can't change our karma for us. And if he doesn't do what we want him to, that's our karma too. It's up to us. Only the people themselves changing the tenets in their hearts can save this country.
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Permanut Donating Member (477 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
69. Gold stars, K& R
LiberalMuse, you speak for many who have suffered at the hands of the neocons. I would do the same thing, and I would do so with the understanding that these people are cruel, and seek only money and power. They have no consideration for others, and to treat them with any kind of equality is to create a false equivalency. It is never wrong to stand up against cruelty, greed and hate, no matter what label it wears.
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
72. Republicans in Washington are very much "pigs at the trough"
There's a reason they got the moniker Repiglicans. Because they deserve it.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
73. Just a little Satyagraha....be not ashamed.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
75. I'm at that point.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
76. It's a war now, We should not feel bad if we have to play dirty.
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
77. your post makes me want to cry.
the smearing with lies and propaganda and the hateful ignorance and greed and just pure evil....


my partner hates Pres. Obama, and however much I try to point out the good he is trying to do..... he goes ballistic.

very upsetting. I don't understand the blindness. his 80 year old parents understand what you're talking about in your post; his Dad spelled it out--he thinks Obama is our only hope. I agree with him. But we had to shut up once G. came back in the room.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
79. For those that feel you should be embarrassed for the act I don't agree, anyone who
allows lies and propaganda to go unchallenged or unchecked should be the one that is embarrassed considering the incredible harm lies and rumors can incur....

I for one applaud your actions though it would be interesting if one had signs that told the truth that could be used to replace the ones spreading the lies so easily...

I also give sympathy for your mother's illness, as did yours, my mother and her mother before her worked incredible long hours and more than one job for years for low pay in order to support themselves as well as family members and even friends who were in need...both were staunch democratic individuals, strong, independent and proud of who they were but not ignorant of the fact that sometimes others were unable to care for themselves and needed aid. I learned compassion and have always believed empathy was a necessity for counting oneself with what I once considered a human strength and still do though for far too many it means weakness.

It makes me sick how ignorant those that call themselves republicans or would vote such in this day and age are showing themselves to be, not only ignorant, but hateful and void of what I still feel separates man from the animal kingdom, compassion and intelligence..perhaps I thought wrong and such are only given to a small population of humans the rest left with the same rules of the animal kingdom which rules by Survival of the Fittest and woe to the weak unable to defend themselves...

Sometimes I despise our earth's population since greed and might seem to be the rule of order, all others need not apply...I just do not understand how the bad continues to surpass the good all over this small planet...doesn't say much for the majority of humans here on earth that kindness and compassion is seen as a weakness in the end....
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
81. That sign deserved to be ripped up.
"free speech" does NOT include the right to lie.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
82. This worthless piece of shit supports you wholeheartedly!!!
Edited on Fri Oct-22-10 03:47 PM by OneGrassRoot
:applause:

And am proud of you. :)

I am so sorry for the struggles your mom has endured and is STILL enduring...as are you.

It's not fair.

I hope I live to see karma play out for the hate-filled hypocrites who have caused so much pain.

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:


On edit: For those on the other side of the aisle who peruse these threads and mock us on your forums, let me say to you, for the record - in case you stumble upon my post -- that while I am surrounded by Glenn Beck lovers in my family and those who decry "welfare queens" and the like, I AM THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS NEVER RECEIVED ANY TYPE OF GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE.

I support those who need it and wouldn't dare belittle or judge anyone's situation (unless we walk in their shoes, who are we TO judge?), but I'm the lone "librul, tree-huggin' do-gooder" in the bunch.

Which, to you, means "welfare queen."

Yet I've worked 80 hours a week for 18 years as I've raised my daughter, living paycheck to paycheck, no benefits of any kind. I am fortunate to be able to work from home so I've always been able to be her primary caregiver, but it's because I start my workday at 4:00 AM that I can post periodically at DU throughout the day. So, unlike the vile things you spew about me and others, the facts don't fit your typical narrow-minded image of those who support The Common Good and words like empathy and compassion.

Most of us don't fit your delusional image of a progressive or Democrat.

Good luck with all that judgment and hatred eating you alive.





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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
83. As the rethugs are fond of saying in their arguments about "free speech" - the government
cannot censor or abridge your speech but we mere mortals have greater "freedom" to do so.

liberalmuse is not a government official, so the first amendment does not come into play.

And if the sign was placed in front of an already-placed Democratic sign as stated, she only brought equilibrium to the situation.

And if the sign was illegal, she was only doing her civic duty by removing the offending crime.

And nothing should be off limits in this war against the reich.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
85. Good for you!!!
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
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rustydog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
87. My son worked for Jay for several years
I can understand what you did. My thoughts go out to you and your mom.
Hang in there. O8)
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
88. Any attorneys out there who could shed more light on the legality issue?
FWIW, I looked up the Highway Beautification Act of 1965, and if I read it correctly, political signs left next to any federal highway (I guess that means all interstates and "U.S." highways such as U.S.-6) are illegal, and therefore fair game for removal.

What about other roads? Would they be in violation of the act, too, or would they be subject to state and local laws? :shrug:

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Moonbat2 Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
91. real high emotions
maybe
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
93. Don't be ashamed.
With the tactics that the other side is pulling, you should be proud.
I have done it myself in the past, and would do it again in a heartbeat.
PaladiNO, and other RepubliCON's signs all over the Hudson Valley have been uprooted, and tossed aside by many of the radicals here!
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
94. That's a nice story. And you tell it so well. n/t.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
95. oh, fucking with their campaign signs
Condolences on your mother. My mom died of cancer at sixty after working her whole life and had one crummy year of retirement before dying...

but, during the Bush/Kerry campaign, repukes were pulling up our signs, so. we did the same.

And I never, ever felt bad about it.

Screw them.
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clayton72 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
97. Campaign signs on public property are liter
If a sign is on private property you can't legally touch it. But if it is on public property, like the land that most roads are on, it is legally considered liter. There is no law against you picking up trash and properly disposing of it. You get to decide what trash you're going to pickup and dispose of. Just please put it where it belongs and not throw it where it could stop storm water from draining.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
100. You'll get no fault from me.
I've torn down more circus posters than I care to think about. I'm proud of it. Advertise evil, be ready for someone to tear it down.
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AC_Mem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
101. Bless your heart
And my healing thoughts go out to your mom.

You are 100% right.
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BobTheSubgenius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
102. I applaud your spirit and your outrage.
I'd also like to offer what little I can for your mother - my very best thoughts and wishes, and sympathy for your family.

I'm a little uneasy about giving the right wing potential ammunition, but I sure understand where your feelings are coming from. On balance, I have to go along with you on this, and realize I could easily do the same.

And don't worry about your parting shot......a great many of them ARE going there.
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SmileyRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
103. best post ever.
hugs
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
104. K&R 299... waiting for 300... It is so true, at some point, we're going to have to tell them to get
the HELL out of our lives with their corporate tyranny... that SCOTUS ruling smells like a pile of SHIT!
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-10 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
105. ....
:hug:
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
107. Good!!!
So sorry about your mother, I'm sending her positive thoughts.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-10 03:56 AM
Response to Original message
108. I feel for you and your mother....but tearing down political signs is still not justified.
Edited on Sat Oct-23-10 03:56 AM by aikoaiko
We'll win with the truth.
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