WTF??!! OBAMA MEETS WITH CONDI (WAR CRIMINAL) RICE TO DISCUSS HER BOOK AND FOREIGN POLICY??!!
Rice meets with Obama, then defends his administration's approach
Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, October 15, 2010; 10:43 PM
Not many authors on a book tour manage to snag a visit with the president of the United States. But Condoleezza Rice is no ordinary book author.
The former secretary of state and onetime national security adviser met one-on-one with President Obama at the White House on Friday afternoon, after a week of television appearances promoting "Extraordinary, Ordinary People," her memoir about her parents. The White House said Obama wanted to discuss a range of foreign policy issues with her.
Later, at an evening appearance at the Aspen Institute, Rice said she and Obama "covered the waterfront." "Despite the fact there are changes and tussles, there is still a foreign policy community that believes that foreign policy ought to be bipartisan," she said. "It was really great that he reached out in that way."
Rice rolled her eyes at the notion that Obama is a closet Muslim, and she defended him from criticism - led by former vice president Richard B. Cheney - that Obama had weakened the country. "Nothing in this president's methods suggests this president is other than a defender of America's interests," Rice told an audience that included presidential adviser Valerie Jarrett.
13. So "not the worst of the war criminals" is now a credential?
Edited on Fri Oct-15-10 11:35 PM by Panaconda
As National Security Advisor, Rice authorized waterboarding in July 2002, according to a report of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Less than two months later, she hyped the impending U.S. invasion of Iraq, saying, "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." Her ominous warning was part of the Bush administration's campaign to sell the Iraq war, in spite of the UN International Atomic Energy Agency's assurances that Saddam Hussein did not possess nuclear capabilities.
33. "Retch". It's aggravating to see people getting away with
terrible things by virtue of their positions and connections and wealth, but it's always been that way. Anyhoo, what makes me retch is not Condi so much as her "husband" and Crashcart, touring the country, making appearances, trying to pretend they weren't the monumental fuckups of the century.
29. That's the way things work, though. They would have had to be found guilty
of war crimes, or at least had charges made against them, in order for them to be disdained or condemned by the current President. I don't think most of America thinks that they were war criminals, either. Political reality is, it will all be let go, down the memory hole. Looking at the next three weeks, I am reminded of how fragile the Democrats' grasp is on the reins of power--I'm not saying it was good or just to let all of the Cheney Bush crimes go unpunished in court, I'm just acknowledging that it was never going to happen in light of the political climate in this country. Ironically, while Democrats have let that slide, there's articles up on DU about the planned impeachment of Obama, for "crimes" and scandals not yet known. Life is unfair.
71. What? If I admit to a crime but the state chooses to not prosecute,
do you assert that no crime was committed? If I burned down my neighbors house, killed the entire family, publicly proclaimed that I did it, but the Prosecutor says, "Meh." Will you assert that I have committed no crime?
82. Again... your reading comprehension needs some work
Edited on Sat Oct-16-10 01:56 AM by scheming daemons
I didn't say crimes weren't committed.
I said that Condi Rice's culpability in those crimes has yet to be determined.
Just as in your example... Nazis committed crimes... but the level of guilt of any particular Nazi had to be determined by a court.
Furthermore... even if/when she is found guilty in a court... having a conversation with her is not an endorsement of her crimes.
Lastly... you said that I live in a world where the only crimes committed are those that get a conviction. I never said nor implied that. These two statements are not equivalent:
A. A crime was committed. B. Condi Rice committed the crime.
I'm agreeing with you that A is true.
But B is not proven yet.
I submit that the "bizarre world" is the one that YOU live in ... a world where:
A. A conversation with someone is an implicit endorsement of any wrongdoing that person has done. B. The subjective opinion of guilt or innocence of an individual by another individual is equivalent to a jury verdict.
191. If my conversation with a War Criminal would be seen and heard around the world
Damn straight I'm going to be aware that meeting with a War Criminal would have undertones of approval of their felonious behavior. Even as a simple citizen who wouldn't be noticed by anyone, if a known War Criminal like Condi came to my door, I wouldn't let her in and I certainly wouldn't serve her tea.
190. Sometimes you actually do have to go there, Godwin's law be damned
We're talking about War Criminals in both cases. The only difference is that back then, the world had a moral compass that worked. If it still worked, Cheney, Bush , Rice, Rumsfeld and many more who aren't coming to mind right now would be in jail.
but these folks renamed torture, enhanced interrogation and then they went on to do it, a lot. They renames disappearing people as extraoridinary rendition and then they did it, a lot. For me, this is one of those rare binary moments in history. In that administration they were torturers and what they did is War Crimes. She is just as guilty as Rumsfeld and Cheney. There aren't, in my world, levels of War Criminals. You either are a War Criminal (Condi) or you're not (most, but sadly, not all Democrats).
Mafioso like to keep things cordial between the families too. That doesn't make the mafia a good thing and keeping it cordial with War Criminals isn't okay.
157. They're just having a meet and greet. They're not going to plan a war. Get a grip.
You're not saying you're one of those who doesn't want people on opposing sides to ever meet and chat over coffee, are you?
Obama has a compelling personal history. So does Sotomayer. So does Condi Rice. And that has nothing to do with their policial activities.
Meet, have coffee, chat a bit. That's a good thing. (BTW...she has never been found guilty of being a war criminal. That's an inflammatory thing to say, when someone wants others to hate a person. IMO, she was duped like Powell and others, by Cheney and others. She was ignorant of Al Qaeda and the Middle East history as it regards America.)
LOL what people fail to see is that Obama jumped the criminal shark a while back. He stands for the patriot act and has expanded the loss of our liberties. Assassination of American citizens? Gitmo and black sites still in full force? Continued massacre of poor people in far away illegal wars? deaths of thousands of americans through poverty, despair and disease by catering to the health corps and wall street? Now he decides to meet with a war criminal and its all dandy? LOL FU! They are colleagues!
Truth sometimes is a bitter pill that MUST be swallowed.
Sad thing is that apologists here DO KNOW all this.
By now NO ONE can be so naive.
Either you are profiting in some sick way from the aberration that is ALL Washington plutocracy or you are severely mentally imbalanced.
She is an expert on Russia, something neither of those two (Bush Cheney) are. And I bet it is not advice - it is to hear other points of view - it does not mean to say he will use any of it. I do know that Condi opposed many of Cheney's draconian ideas.
Her field was the study of eastern bloc politics, not the study of the Russian/Polish/Czech/(etc.) languages...
I'll assume you're American, and say something you might find interesting: They speak *multiple* languages in other countries! Imagine that! They even have multiple dialects, where people in the same country have difficulty communicating, because their dialects differ so much! Crazy, I know!
30. So the President met with a former Sec. of State...a VIP one, to boot.
One of the few of the prior administration who isn't walking around criticizing the current administration.
Add to that the fact that she is a historical figure...the first Af. American Sec. of State, with as extraordinary a personal history as President Obama's.
I think it's very fitting that they should meet and chat a while.
And I think we all know...the President of the U.S. is not taking advice from a former Sec. of State who made big "mistakes." Nor did he say that's what he was doing. He has his own very fine Sec. of State, thank you very much.
154. I don't think she was part of the in-the-know crowd. I think she was duped, like Colin Powell.
She wasn't too bright, not to have caught on. She didn't know who Al Qaeda was, when she took office. She was probably all caught up with being named the 1st Af. Am. Sec of State, esp. given where she came from (segregated Alabama, where they couldn't use public restrooms).
She probably caught on near the end, I think. But it was too late by then.
She has a remarkable personal history. Coming from where she came from, with all the odds against her. She persisted, worked hard, and throughout it all, has remained a seemingly non-critical person of others, as far as I can tell. She's on the wrong side. She's not too bright, about people like Cheney. But a monster? You're not well informed if you think SHE was the monster.
183. Looking at her history and chalking it to "not that bright" is reaching deep in the excuse box
The reality is she was one of the biggest neocons. Not Cheney and Rumsfeld but a sure junior partner and is a principle architect and pushed big for a lot of the criminal minded foreign policy and erosion of civil liberties, likely one of the most effective prods and coaches for the shrub rather than being some dimwitted tool.
Fuck yeah, she certainly is one of the monsters however likable our compelling you somehow may find her.
That neocon war criminal belongs under a prison and certainly not in charge of our top Universities, corporations, and organizations.
Madcap excuses for scum on a "liberal" and "Democratic" board is absolutely disgusting.
The stupid card to pull on Rice of all people's behalf is pitiful. Poor "slow" Condi couldn't see what was happening as National Security Adviser and SoS. No, no not that "poor slooow" Condi, no way she could put it together.
Then the audacity to go with the "uninformed" jab is pretty sick. What evidence do you present to offset her rather impressive education and level of accomplishment that would shed light on her in actuality, rather limited intellect?
Truman met with Stalin, who did far worse than Rice. He worked with political rivals like Herbert Hoover. Truman is lucky that foreign leaders didn't take your attitude. They certainly would have been justified in refusing to speak with the man who ordered the dropping of the atomic bomb.
78. Hoover in the same category as Julius Streicher?
That won't work, old chap. And, of course, Stalin was a wartime Ally more or less a fact of life. The truth about the Gulag was not widely promulgated in those days. Hollywood war films of that era, in fact, were quite radiant about the USSR. When we became the odious national security state we are now the PTB cranked up the hate for the "Russkies."
90. So now you're an apologist for Stalin's crimes
just to take a cheap shot at Obama. Sad.
Remember that Condi Rice is the category we're discussing. That Steicher line is a cute attempt to avoid and distort my point. Since you raised Nuremberg, do you put Rice's approval of waterboarding in the same category as Ernst Kaltenbrunner and others who oversaw concentration camps?
Hey, using your little tactic against you was kind of fun.
If you don't like those examples I'm sure we can come up with plenty of other nasty characters Truman met with. It's the nature of the job.
When did Iowans start using the phrase "old chap?"
187. It is spelled Streicher, sirrah, Remember not to type so quickly
in your zeal to spin and misinform us. I am saying simply (apparently I can't say it simply enough for you) that Americans were not up to speed on Gulags until much, much later. (Think Solzhenitsyn.) As to your creepy attempt at moral relativism, I will say a War Criminal is a War Criminal. And we have even less excuse than others since there is an American tendency to parade around the world as great Moral Crusaders and Arbiters of International Justice. Our policies of course under Bush Cheney Obama Biden are as dirty as anything you can imagine and all serve, as do you, whatever your real name is, to prop up a filthy murderous imperialism.
155. He's not taking advice from one of the cheerers of the Iraq War. He's mtg with a former Sec ofState
They'll discuss foreign policy. They'll also discuss a lot of other things. But take her advice? No more than Hillary would take her advice about being SOS.
I think it's great they're meeting. Rice has not been critical of the O administration, when she certainly could've been. Shows a little class. He has class, too. So two classy people, on different sides, meet. That's a good thing. I like to know that our leaders are classy and can meet and discuss things, even when they're on different sides.
Then there are those (we like to think they are only Republicans) who don't want the two sides to meet or get along, even just to have coffee.
I will never forget her coming to NY, buying thousands of dollars of shoes at Ferragamo on 5th avenue during Katrina. Was so happy to hear one of the shoppers yelling at her "How dare you shop while thousands of people are dying and homeless" What an insensitive witch, she is. Shopping and theater going during that tragedy.
And of course, what NY'er can ever forget her testimony before the 9/11 commision regarding the PDB in August 2001. After both she and bush denied knowing "anything", under oath she was forced to disclose what was in the PDB: "Bin Laden was determined to attack within the U.S." Not that she and bush did anything about that either.
To this day I will always respect Senator Barbara Boxer for going after Rice during her confirmation hearing. I wish others had.
Burn in Hell Condi , you uncaring piece of garbage.
126. Been a few years since I took an American Government course
"I will never forget her coming to NY, buying thousands of dollars of shoes at Ferragamo on 5th avenue during Katrina. Was so happy to hear one of the shoppers yelling at her "How dare you shop while thousands of people are dying and homeless" What an insensitive witch, she is. Shopping and theater going during that tragedy."
Please refresh my memory on the missions and functions of the State Department which pertain to internal natural disasters.
Sort of like blaming the head of the Veteran's Administration for the bombing of Cambodia.
150. Then maybe you should go back and take another American Government Course
Rice was President Bush's National Security Advisor during his first term. Well, we all know how that turned out. Just ignore the PDB's and Richard Clarke constantly begging for a meeting with both Rice & Cheney, beginning in January of 2001, and continuing all through that year. Never happened, unfortunately for us.
As for Katrina, while not in her purview as SoS, as a human being one would have to weigh what was more important to her..buying shoes, theater going, and ignoring the pleas of people stranded on their roofs or trying as so many other people did, who weren't even associated with that administration, seeking to get help for them.
Sorry, she wasn't much of a National "Security" advisor and even less of a human being when it came to helping her own country men in a time of need. You don't have to be an government offical to do that.
Interesting that you left out her role as National Security advisor, even though I put that in. Nice try.
215. Indeed you don't allow the truth to get in the way of your rant
Perhaps in addition to a course in American Government, you should also take a course in Reading Comprehension.
I'd like to know where I said I blamed her for Katrina.
What I did say were her actions during Katrina, when people were on their roofs begging for help & she was in NY having a good old time shopping & theater going, was deplorable. And no you don't have to be a government official to give a damn about people drowning or starving or dying of thirst. Dead bodies in the street rotting, shouldn't upset your weekend, right? You have shopping to do..and hell that's so much more important. Why would anyone find something wrong with that?
Bush going to birthday parties & Rice having a shopping spree. As Barbara Bush once said about young soldiers dying in Iraq: ""Why should we hear about body bags and deaths," Barbara Bush said on ABC's "Good Morning America" on March 18, 2003. "Oh, I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"
Apparently you & Rice & Barbara all agree.
I watched Rice testify before the 9/11 committee and having to admit under oath, that from knowing "nothing", she knew of a possible attack along with her "boss" .
And as far as I'm concerned she can burn along side him in hell. She a piece of uncaring garbage, no matter the situation.
We were talking about her going shopping during Katrina.
We were not talking about the overall balance of her pluses and minuses during the Bush years.
Was the ball dropped on 9/11? Certainly. Was she part of the culpability for that? Probably.
Does any of that pertain to the appropriateness of a Secretary of State not getting involved in a domestic tragedy and leaving the effort need to the cabinet members responsible? No.
General George Marshall, a man I admire very much, used to spend an hour riding horseback every day during World War II regardless of how many soldiers might be dying on that day. He still did his part in winning WWII.
I would find the Navy Captain that refused to take her ship upriver to assist because she was afraid she would run the ship aground far more culpable in the suffering of New Orleans than the Secy of State going shopping.
No need to be too worked up about this OP. I don't see anything wrong with our President picking the brain of a former leader. One thing I like about Obama is that he seems to seek diversified input across the political arena.
94. she's out hawking her fucking book and i just bet someone got an autographed copy!
gee, the unemployment numbers suck and we're paying him to meet with that asshole?
surely he could find better, more productive things to be doing while he's on the clock.
--from the post article: "But all week Rice has deftly maneuvered political minefields, refusing to join in criticism of the current administration while gently defending the decisions of the last one, including Bush's move to topple Saddam Hussein."
Maybe we need a list in this thread of people who Obama did not or refused to meet with.
How many peace activists or professional lefties is Obama sitting down with?
Maybe all the people on this thread who are suggesting Obama is agreeable to sitting down with all parties, being the open-armed and minded man that he is, could talk a little about Obama's meetings with say Kathy Kelly or Cindy Sheehan or Noam Chomsky? No?
130. I was wondering what the latest "outrage" against Obama would be.
Edited on Sat Oct-16-10 11:04 AM by USArmyParatrooper
He met with Rice and discussed foreign policy. Quick! Grab your pitch forks and torches!
Is there anyone outraged about this that has NOT partaken in post after post slamming the President? I'm just wondering if this latest smear converted anyone new or if it's just fodder for the same old same.
140. I never disagreed with the idea that Condi was the architect of one of the worst
foreign policy frameworks the country's ever seen.
But smearing blood on your hands and waving them in her face is not the most compelling way to say that you disapprove. She could have made her point without the ridiculous theatrics that just blew back on her own organization.
159. The war machine is a disgusting abomination; you can pretend it's normal or acceptable.
But the people involved (from politicians to profiteers to mercenaries) are sick and subhuman. A little blood on the hands is a huge understatement of the trauma these worthless trash have inflicted on the rest of us.
How brave of them to stand up as a lone voice for peace in a critical swing area like Berkeley. I'm sure the audience was full of people whose eyes were opened after hearing a message of peace for the first time. And I'm sure the most productive thing to do this close to an election is to get a group of upper middle class people together in California to talk at eachother. :eyes:
168. Anti-people who can't move beyond entry level activism tactics.
Intellectuals are fine if they can do something effective. It's cute that people think they're making a difference by holding symposiums in Berkley. Your assumption that I'm anti-intellectual and your flippant remark about the Dukes of Hazzard is making your attitudes obvious enough. I'll keep organizing working class people in "flyover country" so you won't have to lower yourself.
200. Oh right. Like you organize "working class people."
By organizing "working class people" you must mean union bashing and putting up lefty pictures on your posts. You are DELUDED if you think you support the working class. You have never posted a single pro-working class, pro-union ANYTHING since you've been on this website.
I'll stick with "entry level activism" if "pro-level activism" means being a bipartisan hack who apologizes for war criminals.
Edited on Sun Oct-17-10 10:28 AM by Radical Activist
I don't know why you're such an angry person but you need to deal with that. I can't understand why you're even allowed to post on this site after writing that you hate Obama's supporters more than teabaggers. I've been a union member and union organizer. I've posted plenty of pro-union comments so you must be slacking off on your cyber-stalking. I don't know where all your hate comes from but you need to stop creating imaginary monsters in your head and act like a decent human being.
208. Fascinating to read your assumptions and scorn in this post
Guess that would mean people like me who live in solid blue districts in places like Seattle don't count when we gather to discuss policy either, since my district itself is also far from a "swing area." Add the assumption that anyone in such area who would care to discuss such an issue is "upper middle class." And the scorn that we're just talking "at each other."
Instead of inclusion, you seem to need to try to drown us in waves of condescension.
Yet, both California and Washington are actually purple with many close statewide elections and the people staying active and meeting and discussing issues together are part of what helps shade the states toward the blue side of purple.
Edited on Mon Oct-18-10 01:13 AM by Radical Activist
it's not a relevant comparison. The two communities and scenarios are not at all the same. And your comments were out of context of the discussion, which was about the ineffectiveness of certain tactics.
226. Sorry, you don't get to redefine what I wrote
I quoted your comments and pointed how condescending they were. I addressed those comments directly. I supported the relevance of what they were doing in Berkeley, tied it to civic awareness and pointed out that engaged blue areas such as these help tilt maps toward the blue. And yes, I drew a comparison to Seattle where I live since we, in fact, do share much with Berkeley.
185. FFS when did posting a link with info become justification? Justification of what?
Edited on Sat Oct-16-10 08:07 PM by AtomicKitten
That he met with her? That has already been established. The link I posted offered information re: what they talked about. So, what's your problem? You don't like what they talked about or you don't like her? Hey, who doesn't? So what? On edit: Oh, I get it. You don't think he should have met with her. When did you become the sphincter police? FFS. BFD.
Ferris Bueller: "Pardon my French, but Cameron is so tight that if you stuck a lump of coal up his ass, in two weeks you'd have a diamond."
You seriously have your panties in a knot cause he met with someone? It is common courtesy and the fact that you see it as anything different speaks reams about you and anyone else who thinks this is some sort of scandal.
197. Condoleeza Rice is an unindicted war criminal.
She does not have common courtesy coming to her.
This action is actually quite telling concerning the culture of non-accountability that has been brought to Washington. The degree of "scandalous" of this is certainly debatable, but the fact that some are not a least somewhat disturbed by the symbolism of this says reams about them.
"By the way, I would reach out to the first George Bush. You know, one of the things that I think George H.W. Bush doesn't get enough credit for was his foreign policy team and the way that he helped negotiate the end of the Cold War and prosecuted the Gulf War. That cost us 20 billion dollars. That's all it cost. It was extremely successful. I think there were a lot of very wise people. So I want a bipartisan team that can help to provide me good advice and counsel when I'm president of the United States."
204. Brings to mind the last paragraph of "Animal Farm"
No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
All, whther advisers or Presidents, have blood ontheri hands. That goes especially for those who authorised the overthrow of legitimate governments in Central America that were NOT a communist threat to the US.
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