Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

President Obama Throws Weight Behind Banks, Housing Market Over Borrowers

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:13 PM
Original message
Bank Disinformation III: Obama Throws Weight Behind Banks, Housing Market Over Borrowers
By Yves Smith
October 11, 2010

I should have expected this, Team Obama is so predictably bank friendly that it was inconceivable that the Administration would ever decide against them on anything other than the occasional sop to maintain plausible deniability. But this mornings news stories reveal the officialdom isnt even bothering to keep up appearances.

First, from Politico writer Ben Smith, via a newsletter targeted to policy types:

WALL STREET WARNS WASHINGTON ON MORTGAGES The financial services industry is growing increasingly concerned as more politicians get behind the idea of a broad moratorium on home foreclosures, which banks and many outside analysts say could be good short-term politics but terrible long-term policy.

One senior Wall Street executive told Morning Money over the weekend: President Obama should be very cautious about aligning himself with Congressional leaders who are playing politics with the foreclosure issue. With foreclosed properties comprising one in every four homes sold in the United States, the spreading moratorium could disrupt real estate deals in progress, slow down the process of clearing the backlog of troubled home loans and the economic recovery.


So we are back to Wall Street calling the shots, the very same Wall Street that invokes the give us what we demand or well shoot the economy demand whenever its pet interests are threatened. Here the securitization industry was colossally irresponsible in its conduct, and has created a mess that will be monstrously difficult to remedy.and were supposed to plow onward in business as usual mode?

Read the full article at:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/10/bank-disinformat...


------------------------------------------


Confirmed: Official Administration Policy Is to Continue Foreclosures
By: emptywheel
October 11, 2010

The Federal Housing Administration Commissioner, David Stevens, has joined David Axelrod in stating that the Administration sees no reason to halt all foreclosures. Thats not a surprise in itselfit was pretty clear that Axes statement reflected official Administration policy.

But Im particularly interested in how Stevens justified this position in an email sent to the WaPo.

We believe freezing foreclosures for all banks in all states, whether we have reason to believe them to be in error or not, is simply not the prudent step to take in this fragile housing market, he said.

With approximately one in four homes sold in the second quarter in foreclosure, administration officials worry that a moratorium could have a significant impact on the economic recovery.

While we understand the eagerness to make sure that no American is foreclosed upon in error, we must be careful not to over-reach and apply a remedy that will make the underlying problem of foreclosures worse, he added.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...


First, note where Stevens places the benefit of the doubt. If the Administration has no reason to believe foreclosures to be in error, then it will assume they are not. That, in spite of the mounting evidence that the paperwork problem for homes sold during the bubble is systemic.

Foreclosures have been halted in places where there is an easy means (judicial foreclosures) to expose the fraud underlying the bubble era housing sales, or for companies (like Bank of America) that were pressured to vouch for the whole system. But there is no reason to believe the loans Wells Fargo acquired from Wachovia are any more sound than what BoA has on its books; on the contrary, theyre probably worse. But the Administration position is that we should just carry on with the foreclosures, ignoring the evidence of systemic fraud.

Read the full article at:

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2010/10/11/confirmed-... /

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. And DU is against people trying to buy homes?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Are DU'ers against foreclosure fraud? YES! Do you want to buy a foreclosed home now?


Good luck with that!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I wish I had the cash to buy one, and the energy to rehab it.
I'd do it in a second. I'd also make sure that there was a clear title to the home, whoever owned it. That's sort of the responsibility of the buyer, I think. Nothing wrong with buying a properly foreclosed home.

Oh, yes...unrecced for facts not in evidence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. All banks haven't been accused of foreclosure fraud.
All mortgages aren't connected with MERS.

A total foreclosure moratorium makes no sense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Does every bank and credit union participate in fraud?
Is that your claim?

Good luck with that!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tiras De Carne Seca Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. How in the world did you come to that conclusion?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Mind boggling, isn't it?
:silly:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Would you buy a car without a title? Only for parts
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-12-10 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
112. I wouldn't ever buy a title-less car
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. No surprise here...
regarding what the OP says, and the fact that my rec still shows you with a 0 count, thanks for posting...K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
83. This is the eightieth comment - yet zero recs? Zero?
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 02:29 PM by truedelphi
Oh well, Party loyalists wil accept anything that is served them as fair.

I prefer principle to Party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. Me too...
without the unrec button, this would be at 50 I bet, shame that, well we can kick anyway... :kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. How many dimensions of chess is this again?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. There IS no reason to halt all foreclosures.
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 12:29 PM by pnwmom
MERS isn't involved in all foreclosures. All mortgages aren't part of mortgage derivatives. All financial institutions haven't been accused of fraudulent practices.

Instead of "throwing his weight" behind all borrowers going through foreclosure -- no matter whether the individual borrowers deserved it or not (some, for example, were investors with the means to pay their mortgages who made a business decision to go through foreclosure rather than lose money) -- instead of that, he is "throwing his weight" behind the health of the economy in general, and the country as a whole.
And the country as a whole will not be better off if the entire foreclosure process shuts down for an indeterminate period of time.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. So how will you immediately set aside and freeze all the "bad" ones from the "good" ones ....
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 12:32 PM by Better Believe It
without halting all foreclosures? How would you accomplish that national seperation of tens of millions of mortgages in a few hours?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Why do we need to do anything in a few hours?
Foreclosures take months, not hours.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. Many people are only days, if not hours, away from losing their homes because of bank fraud.

Thousands are foreclosed on everyday.

We need compassion for the victims, not the criminals who engaged in massive fraud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. Then those mortgages are the ones that should be actively investigated
for fraud right now.

That doesn't mean we should stop the process for all foreclosures everywhere, no matter whether they're part of MERS or not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. MERS fraud is the reason the foreclosure fraud must be exposed. How do you make TRILLIONS of $ of
derivatives out of millions of $ of bad mortgages?
That is the fraud that brought about the crisis.
That is the crime that must be prosecuted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. MERS isn't involved in all mortgages or foreclosures. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. Which ones exactly are fraud free? How did ANY sub prime mortgages become AAA+ securities?
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 12:44 PM by Vincardog
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. Are you suggesting until we can prove there's no fraud anywhere
we should have a moratorium on all foreclosures?

Not all mortgages are part of MERS. There's no reason to halt foreclosures on non-MERS mortgages.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. It has been shown that tens of thousands (AT LEAST) of bank's mortgages were fraudulently obtained.
The records of title transfer have been broken.
Until you can prove title you can not sell.
get it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. So? That's still not a justification for halting ALL foreclosures,
including ones that have nothing to do with MERS or the implicated banks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. How do we just stop the fraudulent ones? Better that 100 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man go t
jail. What is the harm with making those who have defrauded people prove their right to the property?
Why do you want us to be responsible for proving every single one of them is good or bad?
It is on record that the legal procedures were ignored.
What is the harm is stopping actions that harm people until the Banksters prove that they have the right to do what they want to do?
I maintain that forcing them to prove their case would expose their fraud.
I maintain that anyone who fights making them prove their case is complicit in their fraud.
If you maintain differently please make your case.
Why is it better to let the fraud go uncorrected?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Based on your reasoning, we should let 100 bankers guilty of mortgage fraud
go free to protect the one who is innocent. The 100 guilty bankers all agree with you.


OTOH, I see no reason for a general moratorium on foreclosures, since not all mortgages are involved with MERS and not all banks have been implicated in fraudulent practices. Let's concentrate on the situations where we know we have problems.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. Bases on your reasoning it is better that 100 families be thrown out of their houses fraudulently
than that one Bankster have to reveal the fraud behind his illegal million in bonuses.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. You were the one who set up the analogy, not I.
I don't want anyone thrown out of their house fraudulently and I'd love to have fraud revealed behind bankers' bonuses.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. How do you want to reveal the fraudulent ones without stopping all of them until they can prove thei
paperwork is valid?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. You don't have to stop all of them. You examine the paperwork
of the ones closest to being foreclosed and work backwards. And you concentrate on those that are actually involved with MERS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. I will get right on that
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. "all banks in all states"
That would be ridiculous.

God it is sad that people have just clean lost the ability to think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. The title comes from a BLOGGER who is full of shit

Wall Street warns Obama=Obama is against borrowers?????

And the Washington Post??

This BS is the response we get after Obama vetoes the latest foreclosure bill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Can you present a credible critique of the article or would you rather engage in a personal attack

on the writer?

I'm listening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
97. Give me a credible (non-BS) title first

...then I'll talk yo you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #97
103. What's wrong with the title?
Yves Smith is an extremely credible writer. She's a Harvard graduate 3 decade Wall Street professional who has been invited to meet with the administration on more than one occasion. As far as we know, you're a nobody posting on a message board, so I think she wins this round. Sorry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-12-10 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #103
110. ftw
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
99. Like OMG!! a BLOGGER!!!!11!!
Noooooo!

Not a BLOGGER!!1!!1

Oh noes!!!111!

:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. There are valid foreclosures and we really don't want to crash the housing market. It would not be
good for the country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. But think how much fun it would be, watching the banking system collapse!
:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tiras De Carne Seca Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Yeah, let's just watch the little folks get scammed instead.
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 12:41 PM by Tiras De Carne Seca
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Not every investor facing foreclosure is a "little folk."
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 12:49 PM by pnwmom
Not every mortgage being foreclosed is connected with MERS.

Not every financial institution has been involved in fraudulent practices.

There is no reason for a blanket moratorium.

But if we DID have a collapse of the US banking system, millions of "little folks" would suffer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tiras De Carne Seca Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Millions of "little folks" are already suffering and the banks are still standing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. If the banks collapsed the suffering would vastly increase.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #40
104. Not this nonsense again.
Can you at least roll out some new lines for TARP 2.0?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. And the question is how do we sort this out without a freeze on foreclosures?
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 12:38 PM by Better Believe It
We can't just permit the banksters to foreclose on properties where they have engaged in criminal fraud.

I'm sure there must already be hundreds of thousands of fraud victims. We can't allow any more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. How would we sort it out WITH a freeze on foreclosures?
For one, we'd sort out the mortgages that had nothing to do with MERS. There's no reason to put a moratorium on them.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. If they have the documentation, they are valid. Many do you know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. That's unfair. If a bank's mortgage practices aren't fraudulent, why should it be penalized?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
47. And how do you determine which arent without freezing the process to investigate?
Should we take the banks word that their mortgages have no fraud?

Isnt that kind of thinking how we got here ion the first place?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. That's not necessary.
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 01:13 PM by ClarkUSA
I can tell you that my own mortgage papers are legit and not fraudulent, for example. If I chose to default on my mortgage, there is no legal reason why my bank should freeze their foreclosure proceedings against me unless it's to re-negotiate terms.

There's a reason why banks that have paperwork problems have instituted their own moratorium. They aren't doing it out of the kindness of their heart. They are doing it because they don't want to be sued for each and every case of a foreclosure with bad paperwork.

There is no reason why foreclosures with perfect paperwork should be stopped. If creditors that have perfect paperwork cannot foreclose, that will kill the housing market and hurt the economy (and no creditor in their right mind would issue a mortgage in such an environment).

Foreclosures with imperfect paperwork should absolutely be stopped. But they are being stopped by banks, because now that lawyers have caught on to their fraudulent activity, banks don't want to be bankrupted by civil lawsuits and criminal investigations by state AGs.

In cases where a servicer continued with bad-paperwork foreclosures even after it has been shown that they are using bad paperwork, state attorney generals should open a criminal investigation on that bank (and in many states they are). You will get a self-imposed moratorium very quickly.

The only reason we might need a national moratorium is if it turns out most foreclosures have bad paperwork AND most servicers when confronted with this refuse to stop (even after threatened criminal investigations and civil suits). But this has not happened yet -- banks do not want to be prosecuted or bankrupted.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #52
69. +100. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #52
80. That's right. Let's let the banks, that have conducted thousands of bad foreclosures
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 02:23 PM by EFerrari
police themselves.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Well, several megabanks did so & have voluntarily frozen millions of foreclosure proceedings.
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 02:33 PM by ClarkUSA
Thus, my reasoning has been played out in real-time already.

More sound reasoning here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #82
88. Yes, your reasoning is being played out to an extent.
That it will be in anyway fair to homeowners is another thing entirely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #47
71. You don't need to freeze all foreclosures. Concentrate on
the ones associated with MERS. Check the paperwork of those closest to foreclosure and from there, work backwards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
25. Capital uber alles

The business of America is business.

Sucks, doesn't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. No, it isn't. What is wrong with what David Axelrod said? Not all banks committed mortgage fraud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
86. The point is....

finance has become the largest sector of our economy and the power that brings over our government is immense. Is it not obvious?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
49. This isn't the Marxist underground. This is the Democratic underground.
And there are plenty of people here who aren't anti-business.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. Capitalism is not democracy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #57
66. And it isn't anti-Democratic either. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #66
84. The style of twenty first century capitalism is damned
Nearer to socialism for the rich than any type of real capitalism.

People are now being foreclosed up on even though they had NO mortgage -they paid cash for the house. And with the revelation last week that Congress passed by voice vote a bill that would allow the robo signers to keep on signing,we see greed being able to ALMOST overwhelm the Fifth Amendment (Which states no one can be deprived of their PROPERTY unless they have a legal remedy to address charges against them) Only by storming the WH with calls, did people see to it that Obama didn't sign that bill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #49
87. So?
And there are some who are not. Haven't seen where one has to sign an oath of loyalty to the US Chamber of Commerce in order to post here.

There can be no democracy in a capitalist economic system, the interests and power of Capital preclude it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
29. Did anyone really expect any different from Obama?
Is Geithner still working for Obama? Is Geithner in charge of everything Elizabeth Warren does?

Yes and Yes.

'Nuff said.

:puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #29
44. No, I expected this. He'd make reasonable, prudent decisions
no matter what the extremists among us might advocate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. It is an extreme position to advocate for the halt of all foreclosures
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 01:09 PM by pnwmom
in this situation.

Not all mortages are connected with MERS. Not all banking institutions have been implicated in fraud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. It looks like B of A is taking an extreme position, then.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #55
64. Why? They haven't advocated that every foreclosure in every banking
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 01:41 PM by pnwmom
institution across the country be stopped.

They have simply decided to investigate their own practices, based on information that has come forward.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AndrewP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #51
59. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #44
72. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. Right. And he IS doing his job and keeping his promises.
He never pretended to be a far left-leaning DUer. It was always clear that he was a moderate. Some people, however, projected their own fantasies on him and saw him as something else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. Moderate?! ROFLMAO!
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 02:13 PM by earth mom
:rofl:

And FYI-I was never fooled-not for a minute.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
30. Not all foreclosures are fraudulent. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. I suspect it will turn out to be a small minority that are.
A bunch of people see the evidence of SOME fraud as a golden ticket to a free house. Fraud should be prosecuted where it is found. Stopping legit foreclosures because there has been some fraud is wrong.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. You are correct and it would be very bad for the economy to stop all forclosures becasue some may be
fraudulent. Very dangerous right now when we are trying to recover the housing market.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-12-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #38
113. Actually the more foreclosures, the lower the housing prices.
Edited on Tue Oct-12-10 01:03 PM by truedelphi
And then those who are paying their mortgages begin walking away as well.

And even the Big Mortgage companies that scold us little people for doing this "walk away" - well, Jon Stewart took the time to have one of his intrepid "news reporters" go and check out a major mortgage firm that had purchased a seventy million dollar building several years ago. They now rent a place a few blocks away - having walked away from the building in question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. Oh come on...
"A bunch of people see the evidence of SOME fraud as a golden ticket to a free house"... there might be some that look for a "free" house, but the vast majority of folks were just lead to believe in the American Dream, and planned to be able to pay...so many lives were ruined...

the legit banks likely have a lot fewer foreclosures...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. "the legit banks likely have a lot fewer foreclosures." So why involve
the "legit banks" in a general moratorium on foreclosures?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #41
60. The non-NINJA borrowers have a lot fewer foreclosures.
Lots of people KNOWINGLY lied to get into homes they could not afford, and they KNOWINGLY gambled on the housing bubble not bursting in time to catch them out. It's these people who now see some evidence of fraud in some cases and scream for a nationwide moratorium on foreclosures. They still want their gamble to pay off - they still want their something for nothing.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
31. politico?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
43. How would a complete foreclosure freeze help anything?
Isn't it just delaying the inevitable, and artificially preventing the housing market from healing?

I can understand a freeze on foreclosures from banks that have obvious problems, but all banks do not have these problems.

There are a lot of people that simply can not afford the homes they've purchased, and any kind of broad foreclosure freeze just prevents someone who can afford the home from buying it and moving in.

You just can't keep people in homes they can't afford. In many cases, they simply should not have bought those homes in the first place.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #43
53. It's giving some DUers hope that they won't be foreclosed on
even if they don't pay their mortgage. They're hoping for the ultimate free ride.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pathwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Which DUers are hoping for the ultimate free ride?
Nice slur-not! Apparently you think you know a lot about DUers that they haven't posted, so please tell us which DUers are hoping for the ultimate free ride.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. Sure looks like that is the hope
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The other advice is if being foreclosed upon, even if youve not been paying your mortgage or theyve saddled you with insane penalties and fees challenge it in court. Demand they produce every piece of original documentation they are required to do by law. And demand they show the judge (or govt administrator) your original wet-ink signatures on the mortgage contracts. At the worst, you might delay these parasites a few months and keep your property that much longer; at best, you might find yourself suddenly in full possession of your home, free and clear.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pathwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #65
70. I support this moritorium, and my house isn't in default at all.
Totally current. 28 year record of NO late payments. My mortgage co. - one of the top 5 - just offered us the chance to refinance at a lower rate. We refused because their 43 page document was so full of dangerous crap,including allowing them to foreclose even if we weren't late for payments, that we decided to keep our original 6 page loan, which the current bank purchased, despite the higher payment. The current co. calls us once a week, still wanting us to refinance. I wonder why...

Not everyone fits your stereotype.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #53
61. The banksters have been given a "free ride" for far too long.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #61
78. And that means what?
How is a general foreclosure freeze, to include banks that aren't doing anything wrong, good for the economy?

How hard is it to accept that LOTS of people are simply in homes they can't afford and should not have bought in the first place? Whether you blame the buyers or the banks for this is besides the point. If someone can not afford their home, eventually they are going to have to leave and make way for someone who can afford it. Delaying the inevitable simple draws out the amount of time it will take for the housing market to get back to something resembling normal.

And if we're just going to freeze foreclosures and find ways to cut interest and/or principal, why wouldn't everyone try to get in on the deal? Lots of people ARE making their mortgage payments but struggling mightily to do so. What do they get? Where would this end?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. Open up the banks books to inspection! "Innocent" banks have nothing to fear.

And all of their foreclosures will be quickly unfrozen if they are not guilty of fraud and have the proper legal paperwork.

Now what's so difficult about that?

It seems to me that "innocent" banks will rush to place a voluntary freeze on their foreclosures until their books pass public inspection.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #79
93. I don't know what you mean by "public inspection" but the government
can audit the banks' books any time it wants.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #53
81. Project much?
Do you know how many people are in the process of modifying their mortgages and how banks are taking advantage of the process to simply grab the properties? It has nothing to do with a free ride for consumers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #53
89. Absolutely vile. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #43
100. And why were they in those homes they "couldn't afford"?
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 08:29 PM by TBF
Because mortgage bankers making commissions/bonuses put them in houses they couldn't afford (and that sometimes included falsifying documents). This should all be sorted out before more people are thrown out of their homes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
62. Foreclosure freeze meets Wall Street opposition


Foreclosure freeze meets Wall St. opposition
By NISHAD MAJMUDAR and TOM KEENE
Bloomberg News
October 11, 2010


NEW YORK Calls for a total freeze on foreclosures ran into opposition from Wall Street and the White House amid predictions that clearing up faulty paperwork and resuming evictions may take as little as two weeks.

A complete halt would be "catastrophic" for the U.S. economy and hurt home sales, said a statement from President Tim Ryan at the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association, Wall Street's biggest lobby. A day earlier, David Axelrod, a senior adviser to President Barack Obama, also said a moratorium would damage the housing market.

"It would be catastrophic to impose a system-wide moratorium on all foreclosures and such actions could do damage to the housing market and the economy," said New York-based SIFMA. "The mortgage market, investors and the health of the economy are all inter-related."

SIFMA, which represents Wall Street securities firms, banks and asset managers, said a moratorium would "unjustly" create losses for housing market investors, including workers with pensions, retirement accounts or mutual funds, and "further constrain consumer credit and spending" because of uncertainty in the securitization market.

Read the full article at:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/7241763.ht...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #62
74. So what? They're right to do so. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 02:35 PM by ClarkUSA
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #62
91. Certainly not a surprise there,
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 03:43 PM by Autumn
I'm sure Wall Street is looking out for us. K/R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
76. Then let the banks
guarantee the mortgages if they want to let the foreclosures go through
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
90. Like this is a surprise anymore. Rec'd n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #90
95. I just tried to rec'd this and still 0
I guess that (D) by his name makes him sacrosanct to some. We need to elect a actual Liberal next time.
This center-Right as being liberal because the republicans are so far to the right has got to end.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
92. 
White House to America: We Wont Stop Foreclosure Fraud
By: masaccio
October 10, 2010

Banksters have been cheating people on foreclosures for months, maybe years. David Axelrod says hes just sure the Banksters will correct this aberration, and the White House is working closely with them on this important project. Axelrod expects them to reconstruct their paperwork quickly, and get back to the important business of evicting people from their homes.

No doubt he speaks for the boys on the White House economics team, Geithner, Summers and Bernanke, when he says the administration doesnt support a national moratorium on foreclosures.

I get a sinking feeling hearing that the White House is encouraging a bunch of liars and cheats to reconstruct paperwork. I thought that was the big problem: banksters and their hired guns are making up documents and lying in affidavits and directly to courts, not to mention stonewalling customers while extracting their last few dollars in the vain hope of a mortgage modification.

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/75964
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #92
101. America to White House: time to shut down wall street. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
94. I rec'd this, too.
I think you've been swarmed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
96. I have to believe your post is getting Massive UnRecs...it's sad to see this here on DU
where the very name "Underground" would lead some Dems to Believe that this is a place for Democrats to DISCUSS THEIR DIFFERENCES..and not be influenced by Pollsters, Trolls and Rahm Emmanuel type CENTRIST MONGERS.

It's distressing....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SarahB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #96
105. If you read the DU poll questions, you understand what this place really is. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #96
106. This place runs smoother than an internet cafe in Beijing..
If you know what I mean.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
98. Recommended, not that it matters now that the DLC has taken over. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
102. If siding with the lenders is throwing weight behind the market,
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 08:33 PM by mmonk
then I as a Realtor am in the wrong business. Working out troubled mortgages would stabilize the market, not foreclosing on them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
107. Rec. nt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. Unrec
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
109. UnRec. n/t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-12-10 03:14 AM
Response to Original message
111. Any time a bankster says, "...should be very cautious about..." it is simply another
extortion scheme brewing.

They are a bit worried that this latest evidence of their sanctioned looting might get out of hand, so out of hand that the government can't stop the tsunami of anger that is still rising in the hearts of the American people.

Look for another "reform" to come out of the cesspool...
:kick: & R

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Feb 22nd 2018, 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC