Hey fat haters -- thyroid problems are. common- 30 million Americans

[Manifestor_of_Light]

nadinbrezinski and MissyVixen will back me up on this.

I have seen many fat haters on DU say "glandular problems are RARE, ALL fat people are junk-food-eating lazy slobs, metabolism is a simple equation in thermodynamics." Human metabolism is far more complex than simple physics, sorry for you physics majors.


I don't think "at least 27 million Americans" signifies a rare disease. That's more people than have diabetes, and we don't have any research institutions working on thyroid diseases.

This is about the problem with TSH tests. This is used as a test for thyroid function, but it is secreted by the pituitary gland, to kickstart the thyroid. GO FIGURE!!!!

This is from a thyroid list I am on:

The problem lies in the way labs establish their "normal" reference ranges. A reference range is defined to include 95% of the supposedly healthy population living in the particular geographic area served by the particular lab. This means that any given lab can only allow 5% of the people it tests to be outside the reference range, 2.5% of them below the range (in the case of TSH = hyper) and 2.5% above it (in the case of TSH = hypo).

One huge problem with this is that more than 5% of the population has thyroid disease. The American Association of Clinical Encrinologists estimates that 13.5 million Americans are diagnosed with thyroid disease and another 13.5 million have thyroid disease but have not yet been diagnosed and are unaware they have it. Their estimate is that there are at least 27 million Americans who have thyroid disease, and most by far of those are hypo. Yet very little money is spent on research into thyroid disease and treatment, while tons have been and are still spent on diabetes, which affects only about 16 million Americans.

Another huge problem is that of those diagnosed with thyroid disease about 80% are hypothyroid and about 20% are hyperthyroid. But labs' reference ranges can only exclude 5% of people, half of those above and half below whatever numbers 95% of people turn up with. And guess which half ends up with more undiagnosed cases? The method for calculating thyroid reference ranges inherently skews them toward the high end, because only 2.5% of healthy people tested can be included as hypo. So a lot of hypo people are wandering around diagnosed normal in order for labs to meet the 95% criterion that defines normal reference ranges.

Labs do adjust their reference ranges a little bit as the results from their population shift up or down. The particular Quest lab I use has over the years lowered its top number for TSH from 5.0 to 4.5. But I don't think they're ever going to drop it as low as 3.0, because that would take too many out of the supposedly normal 95%.

The only solution I can think of is to get more of the undiagnosed folks diagnosed and removed from the "normal healthy" group on which reference ranges are based. And that would likely take a whole lot more doctors routinely ordering tests for free T4 and free T3 and defining hypo and hyper by those numbers instead of only by TSH.

Slats


===========
Furthermore, thyroid cannot be absorbed and used properly without proper nutritional support. It cannot be used properly without sufficient cortisol secretion by the adrenal glands, either. And millions of people have adrenal fatigue due to overwhelming stress in their lives. They just poop out and you get to the point where you it a brick wall. I had that feeling of "I can't go on, I can't deal with being around people, it is too stressful to deal with them." I crashed a couple of decades ago and I cannot get any doctor, my internist or an endocrinologist, to take me seriously. They ignore this.

===================================
Assorted links:

http://www.nthadrenalsweb.org/
www.stopthethyroidmadness.com
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormones/
http://faqhelp.webs.com/
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NTHA-Chat/


http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/
http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Adult Metabolic Syndrome

if you get a diagnosis on any of the trifecta (Thyroid, Diabetes, Celiac) you should be tested for the other two as a gimme.

[eridani]

23. Most of the fat bashers here don't believe there is such a thing.

[SmileyRose]

28. 20 extra pounds

can be blamed on medical problems. When someone reaches 100 pounds or more overweight that is far beyond the natural excess weight someone with medical problems would carry. In this country we've long ago lost sight of anything remotely like normal portion sizes and proper nutrition. Those with added medical problems used to hold an extra 10 or 20 pounds. Now it's 100 or 200 extra pounds.

If someone has any medical ailment that makes gaining weight easier and losing it harder, then it does require extra work on either exercise (if possible) and diet. It's a raw deal and it's easy to say "oh forget it, this is a lost cause". I have the opposite problem. I have a medical issue that causes me to fight to keep enough weight on -- and it's truly a battle every day to find a balance so that I don't become so thin I die.

Enormously obese people obviously need to get some control and probably some help. The alternative is a much shorter life and a life with certain limits caused by the weight. Now having said all that = anyone, anywhere who thinks obesity makes a person less valuable is a fucking idiot.

[LWolf]

32. Not necessarily.

When you have two metabolic disorders, it can be really difficult to stop weight gain.

Try me. I was fit and healthy up to age 45, although I ALWAYS had to adhere to a strict diet and LOTS of exercise to stay that way. I had an abdominal bulge from the time I can remember, even when the rest of me was stick-thin. Insulin resistance before we knew to look for it, based on being raised on poor people's diet: Tons of cheap starchy stuff.

I also had periodic bouts of hair loss, usually in response to stress. It bugged me, but I didn't connect the dots. Finally, when I got older and no matter how much I exercised or how little I ate, I couldn't keep from gaining weight, I had a series of blood tests which revealed type II diabetes AND thyroid deficiency. It doesn't matter how little I eat, if I don't have my blood sugar under control, I won't lose weight. It doesn't matter how well I do controlling blood sugar and diet, if I don't have an outside source of thyroid, I will be sluggish, I will gain weight, and I will suffer hair loss.

When you add in some injuries that have limited all the exercise I used to get, it's a no-win situation. Don't exercise because of the injuries, and blood sugar goes up; when blood sugar goes up, so does weight. Gain weight, put more stress on injuries, move less, vicious cycle.

Then there is the problem getting my thyroid meds. I have to have blood tests every year to do so. I can't get a prescription without the blood tests. I have health insurance. It doesn't cover the cost of the blood tests. When my pay was cut in '09, I couldn't pay for the blood tests. I'm depending on non-prescription thyroid sources. They keep me from falling asleep in the middle of the day, but they don't keep my metabolism cooking at normal levels.

I need double or triple the amount of aerobic exercise I needed when I was younger to be able to affect blood sugar enough to maintain a decent weight. Whether or not I can do that depends on the back and ankle injury. They are chronic. Do I see a doctor for them? No. I can't afford to use the insurance I pay for. After paying the premium, there's nothing left for the copays and deductibles. I'd like to get a stationary exercise bike, but pay cuts have put that out of my budget, as well. I have a real bicycle, but it is beyond me to manage it on gravel roads, and riding the highway in the dark in 20 degree weather is not going to happen on a regular basis. It's dark when I leave for work, and dark when I get home.

A gym might be a good choice, if it were in the budget. Did I mention the 4 big paycuts I've taken in the last 18 months?

[flamingdem]

45. I have a suggestion about the stationary bike

I noticed that people tend to sell these for a song when they are moving or find they don't use it. I suggest Craigslist or the local paper. I've been thinking of doing this myself even if the big ugly bike has to sit in my living room.

Also, could you tell me what is available in terms of non-prescription thyroid? Is this something sold at the Health food store?

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. I got a big ugly elliptical in the living room

it gets quite a bit of use.

And it was a bear to change the battery too.

[LWolf]

92. I keep an eye on craigslist, hoping one will show up.

I found my thyroid on line:

http://www.nutri-meds.com/Nutri_Meds_Desiccated_Porcine_Thyroid_Capsules_p/nm-g-ptc.htm

[TicketyBoo]

99. $28.95 for 90 caps? And taking up to 5 per day?

I get 50 generic synthetic thyroid pills (200 mcg; dosage of one tablet per day) for less than $7.

Maybe you should call every pharmacy in town to price thyroid meds? And if your doctor holds you hostage with the annual blood test requirement, if I were you I'd hunt another doctor. This is something that doesn't automatically get "cured." Sure, ideally you should see the doctor once a year, anyway, to make sure you're getting the proper dosage. But chances are your need will increase, not decrease, as you age, and getting some thyroid is better than getting none.

Hopefully, better days are coming for us all so finances won't be quite so tight.

[LWolf]

101. I can't get it from a pharmacy because my doctor cannot refill

my prescription without the blood test. I can't get the blood test because I still haven't paid for the LAST blood test, and don't have the $$$ for another. Those tests aren't covered by my insurance.

I don't take the maximum # per day. If I did, I'd probably get better results, but again, it's the $$$. I take enough so that I'm not constantly craving naps in the middle of the day, and my hair isn't falling out.

I'm hoping for better days. I've taken 4 pay cuts in 18 months. My first paycheck for this school year was $450 less than my last check in June, as the latest round of cuts take effect. Next month will be worse. My Sept. check did not include union dues, and it did not include the 30% increase in health insurance premiums for the insurance I can't afford to use that took effect on October 1st.

When the economy improves, state revenues will increase, and we'll begin to make up lost ground. Until then, I'm struggling to make the mortgage payment every month, let alone spend more $$$ on health care.

[Obamanaut]

48. Since you have a real bicycle, there are trainers to use that the back

wheel sits in, with variable resistance.

The Sports Authority, Hostelshoppe, Performance Bike, and many others have them.

[LWolf]

93. I looked at them. They were pricey (for my painfully tight budget.)

I put it on my xmas list and hoped my extended family might pool their resources. Instead, my mom showed up with a stair-stepping thing she found at a garage sale that I can't use, because the whole point is that the ankle doesn't bear weight well. I've been keeping an eye on craigslist, hoping that a trainer, or just a stationary bike, will show up at a price I can afford.

[Obamanaut]

96. Alrighty then. Here is the link to the recumbent bicycle forum I go to.

http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/index.php

There is a 'classifieds' section with for sale, wanted to buy etc. Without registering, which is free, you can read but not post. If you register and post in the wanted to buy, one might come up.

Other bicycle-specific boards might get faster results than Craig's List.

[LWolf]

98. Thanks!

I appreciate doors opening to new sources. The days are already too short to give me enough time outside before and after work, and we haven't switched to standard time yet, which slams the door on any non-weekend outside activity until at least March. Dark is dark in my rural area that has no street lights, not even on major roads and highways. I love the night sky here where there is so little light pollution, but it makes doing anything outside even when temperatures are reasonable a little difficult.

I do spend my weekends as active and busy as I can, but 2 out of 7 days doesn't cut it.

[Obamanaut]

100. You're welcome. Good luck. nt

[wuvuj]

104. I use (2) 7 lb weights...

...and about 25 or so assorted exercises...that I do 2 Xs per week. Anyone has room for and can afford the weights and an exercise mat.

If you have weak areas they can be worked around till they strengthen.

The Stanford Health and Exercise Book...could be found used for next to nothing.

[SmileyRose]

112. You actually proved my point

Genetics and medical issues are even now only part of your weight challenges. it would seem to me poverty and lack of access to decent medical care and correct food for your body now holds most of the "blame". And I put that word in parenthesis because I don't believe being obese is "wrong" in the way that it needs to be defended. But we do have a serious problem in this country of a basic lack of healthy lifestyle, with a whole variety of reasons behind it.

In your case universal single payer medical care would come in real handy.

And

:hug:

[LWolf]

128. Oh, there are definitely other factors.

Remove the metabolic disorder, and the others wouldn't matter; I'd still be managing my weight. Remove the obstacles to health care, and I'd manage the metabolic disorder. Remove the financial setbacks, and I'd manage the metabolic disorder despite the health insurance obstacles.

It's all 3 together that keep me down.

I DO firmly believe the source of the metabolic disorder is having been raised on the poor family's diet; Few vegetables and fruits, a lot of white bread, gravy, pasta, and "fillers" to keep from feeling hungry.

[hedgehog]

60. Step back a minute and examine what your daily battle consists of,

and be honest about what you think an obese person's daily battle consists of.

The people around me know what I eat and how I exercise. My mother told me one night " You eat right and exercise, how come you're so damn fat!"

I am unsure that I can do anything about my weight. I do know that I don't want to spend 24/7 obsessing about it.

[Hello_Kitty]

107. But people expect you to

"Oh I understand that it's more difficult for some people but they just have to accept it and commit to working hard!" IOW, you are obligated to assume what amounts to another full time job exercising obsessively and carefully monitoring every crumb that enters your mouth because some asshole who has no clue what it's like to be you thinks you should.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Actually you are wrong

there are more than just a few metabolic issues that lead to morbid obesity. You should google metabolic syndromes and obesity by the way. Oh hells bells I am nice

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1880831/
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/79/1/31.pdf

And there are a few meds that have that as a side effect.

But I am sure I imagined the extra fifty pounds from Avandia... (which took three years to lose)

[SmileyRose]

114. That is a point well taken

even 20 years ago the metabolic problems now producing extreme morbidly obese people only put an extra 20+ pounds on people. It's probably not just the fact we've lost touch with our food (nearly all of us eat commercially grown food pumped full of god only knows what). And on portion sizes, good heavens even our apples have gotten gynormous. I firmly believe anything resembling a normal portion size has long since vanished from our collective memory.

When I made my original statement it was with the acknowledgment that our society is the primary reason such a large portion of our people are 100's of pounds overweight instead of 10-20. Which would make it just that much harder for individuals to keep the weight down on their own. I probably expressed myself in-artfully by using the phrase "get control". I didn't so much mean personal willpower, although that's a part, I mostly meant finding the right professional help to figure out the right balance of exercise, diet and medical intervention. My ideas where that making specialized nutrition counseling, medical care, and special exercise training available to people with additional medical challenges would go a long way to help.

But I had not considered your point - MUCH of the medication they tell us will cure every damn thing did not exist even 20 years ago. Between those chemicals and the shit they put in our food it might be why even the professionals seem to be throwing up their hands and telling the morbidly obese the only way to beat it is bariatric surgery.

Anyways, I really appreciate your point.

[Ladyhawk]

122. Hmmm...I have hypothyroidism and diabetes.

I'm not sure I have any of the symptoms of celiac disease. Weight LOSS was listed as a symptom. I could use that symptom, at least for awhile.

[meowomon]

2. I Don't Have A Glandular Problem!! I am just FAT!

I'm fat. Get over it. My father is FAT. My mother is FAT. My whole family is FAT. Get over it. If you don't like the fact that I am FAT, too fucking bad. I like me. I like myself a whole fucking bunch, just the way I am.

I'm VERY healthy without taking any medications at all. No one in my FAT family has high cholesterol or high blood pressure. Sure some of my FAT relatives have diabetes, but unless you are a moron, you know that being fat does not CAUSE diabetes. And, some of my thinner relatives have diabetes as well.

If you don't like fat people, perhaps you are just a prejudice, hateful mother fucker who needs to look at themselves instead of judging others.

(PS, this rant is not for the author of this thread.)

[Skittles]

6. PREACH IT, meowomon

yes INDEED

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Diabetes risk goes up

if you are obese... hell it goes up a little if you are overweight...

Let's be clear about that.

[eridani]

25. Actually, it is the other way around

Your risk for obesity and diabetes increases if you have syndrome X.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. They are not sure what comes first

regardless larger girth means higher risk for a slew of things, ranging from diabetes to high blood pressure et al

[eridani]

94. Actually, they are. (At least they are pretty sure)

Fat deposition is almost strictly genetic, although losing and regaining weight shifts fat deposition more in the direction of abdominal fat.

[reggie the dog]

21. i like that you are proud of who you are

so many women these days think they need to be the twigs they see in magazines.... the key is not thinness, the key is to be happy with your body and happy with who you are, but you know that! i am happy being skinny because it goes with my lifestyle (mountain biking, hiking) but have no problem that others have different sizes and different lifestyles...

[JackRiddler]

22. bravo, thank you.

Fat is not a moral failing, but that's how the culture has come to treat it.

[hedgehog]

62. It's easier for the general public to come around to the notion that some people

are born gay than to accept that some people are born fat.

[pipi_k]

66. I was born fat...

I've seen the photos.

I was so fat I couldn't even crawl at 15 months. Then one day, the story from my mom goes, I got up and started walking.

By the time I was 5 or so, I was almost painfully thin and stayed that way until my early to mid 30s.

That's when my weight began to fluctuate from year to year. Not exactly fat, but not painfully thin either. Then back to being very thin.

Once I reached 50 that's when the real struggles with weight happened.

But anyway, yes...I was born fat.

Those fat cells were already there, just waiting for the right time to reactivate themselves.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

110. You are my new hero.

God, I love to hear that. I am the same freaking way. I don't understand why others are so hateful or freaking care. I'm not hurting anyone else. I've got a lot of health problems that are causing my problems (No, not the fat causing the health issues, it's the other way a-freaking-round). I have low cholesterol, and besides the list of problems I have currently have, I'm fine.
Duckie

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[truedelphi]

4. i was convinced of my having hypothyroid issues and problems

My doctor did the tests and he said, "No, you were within the normal range."

I insisted on seeing the tests, and guess what! I was .001% above the low end of the threshold, and thus "normal."

[Manifestor_of_Light]

5. Doctors ignore this stuff.

They think if you're fat and female and forty, you need antidepressants!!!

Well, if ya don't have any energy and sleep too much and suffer from brain fog, that would make me depressed too!

Good websites:

www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://thyroid.about.com <---written by Mary Shomon, thyroid expert and patient.

[truedelphi]

69. Thank you for the links. n/t

[aquart]

8. Yah. Normal RANGE. A kind of average.

The thing is, your normal range could be very different. In my family, normal is usually very narrow. And our thyroids test in normal range until they are yanked out.

[Skidmore]

30. Get tested again. I had all the symptoms of hypothyroidism AND I had thyroid cancer

with tumors in both lobes of the gland and still tested in the normal range. It was only when I found the lumps myself, that I got the doctor's attention. Even AFTER having an ultrasound identifying nodes, the doctor told me that people live with an enlarged thyroid. I insisted on further testing and got a biopsy which indicated that I had malignant tumors.

I suddenly started gaining weight in my late 30s, weight which would not come off no matter what I did. I did not change my diet and had been a size 7 or 9 for all of my adult life up until then. In retrospect I realize I probably had thyroid problems then. My mother took synthroid for hypothyroidism, she struggled mightily with weight. This runs in families.

[truedelphi]

67. Thanks for your post, SKidmore.

I haven't had the energy (until six months ago) to deal with the thyroid issues.

And there is the possibility that since I am not doing wheat, my thyroid has repaired itself. Often the thyroid cannot do its job if a person is eating something in large quantities that the person's whole body is upset by. (Soy often falls into this category - and soy oil is in almost EVERYTHING that is processed.)

I hope you are dong well, and sorry that you had to fight to get this condition looked into. What atrocious care we end up getting in this nation.

[Count Olaf]

73. What if GM Soy and Corn were disrupting everyone's systems

would they tell us?

[truedelphi]

90. Many people do have thyroid issues that come up on

Account of soy. And although they know, they don't tell us.

Wheat causes fibromyalgia for many people. And they know it. Watch the many commercials for anything from the Pharmaceutical people, and if the commercial involves fibromyalgia, it also involves people shopping at a bakery, eating pastries, etc.

The situation is only going to get worse. Researchers in other countries have convinced their governments not to import our GM grains - no corn, wheat, rice from the USA to go to many of the foreign markets. This is the result of the Fusarium (a fungus) levels becoming so high on those grains - since they are grown on soil depleted in vitamins and minerals, by Monsanto's glyphosate containing RoundUp, and without those vitamins and minerals, the plants succumb to mold and fungus.

Fusarium is very dangerous too. Way back in the 1980's some corn grown on depleted soil was harvested and used by families in the Brownsville Texas area. The pregnant women eating the corn gave birth to babies with several types of serious birth defects.

[KittyWampus]

106. there was so much good info packed into your post. It's a great topic-

or topics.

Apparently magnesium is depleted in our soils. It's just so stupid.

We COULD recycle our waste into fertilizer and energy. But we just dump it in the landfill or flush it out to sea.

[sandnsea]

7. Yeah it about killed me

Hypothyroid disease can cause a lot more problems than just weight gain. I've had my share of arguments with DUers about this issue too. Even after I told a fitness instructor that you can't exercise fat away when you're hypothyroid because you are really too exhausted and it doesn't go away anyway -- she insisted that you just had to start slow and keep working at it. The idea that some fat people have untreated hypothyroid disease just couldn't sink in.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

9. One idiot doctor took me COMPLETELY OFF thyroid.

I was off of it for seven years -- and working full time at the courthouse, and going to law school at night for the latter five years of that. No wonder I was exhausted.

But when I went to a chiropractor, she x rayed me and my bones were quite transparent. All the calcium was going to my HAIR instead of my bones, due to lack of thyroid.

She finally sent me to a doc who said I was probably a short time away from a myxedema coma and death.

I had gotten to the point that I had to use sheer willpower to get out of bed. I had been taking thyroid since I was ten years old. But because of my brain fog I didn't realize that I had to take it the rest of my life. Nor did I realize I probably needed more than the two grains I was put on then. I came home from school and crashed every afternoon for three hours. Teenagers aren't supposed to be like that.

I slept twelve hours on weekends and I can still sleep twelve hours at a stretch with no problem and no added drugs.

[Fumesucker]

10. I'm hypothyroid and haven't had my meds for over two years..

And yet I'm losing weight..

Why is this?

I can't afford to eat enough to keep the weight on, same damn reason I don't have my thyroid meds.

[sandnsea]

13. They're $10 for 3 months

If you can't afford that then you need to be on Medicaid.

Tough to say why you're losing weight, but severe hypothyroid disease will cause fluid retention that has nothing to do with diet. If that isn't happening to you, maybe your thyroid isn't as bad as other folks.

[Fumesucker]

14. You have to have a scrip..

They don't sell thyroid meds OTC.

It's the fucking doctor I can't afford..

[sandnsea]

15. Free clinics in Atlanta

http://www.gfcn.org

[Fumesucker]

16. You want to come give me a ride?

My thirty year old motorcycle is broken down right now and it's over thirty miles to Atlanta.

I don't have the money to fix that either.

[sandnsea]

17. That link was for the entire state

Maybe there's a free clinic in your town. Or a group that gives free rides to Atlanta for health care. Most towns have an organization that does that if people rely on a larger city for most of their medical care.

At some point you do have to let people know you need help if you expect them to help you.

[prolesunited]

79. Maybe network with some friends in a similar situation

and carpool it. Gas has gone down considerably, so it shouldn't be too much split a few ways.

Somebody offered useful suggestions and links, and instead of saying thank you, you are being quite rude.

[Mimosa]

39. Their search function doesn't work. n/t

[Regret My New Name]

127. I was off my thyroid meds for about a month and a half

and I felt like I couldn't function at all. How ya doing it? I was hyper though, and they killed my thyroid making me hypo, so I don't produce anything on my own.

[uppityperson]

12. Depression, carpal tunnel, fibromyalgia, hypothyroid can mimic/make worse. A Doctor recommendation..

If you are in or around Seattle, WA and want a really good endocrinologist recommendation, pm me. I have a great one who works with how you feel and good labwork as well as just bs TSH

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. I'll see your thyroid problem, and raise you a 1300 calorie per day diet.

In March, I weighed 287 lbs, the most I have ever tipped the scale at. I went to a website called lose-weight-with-us.com, printed their 1300 calorie diet, laminated the pages, and then asked my wife to adhere to it when she cooked, as I planned to when I cooked. We share the cooking duties.

1300 calories a day, with moderate exercise, sometimes consisting of nothing more than walking the dog 300 yards and back a few times a day.

This morning, I got on the scale at 232 lbs. 55 lbs in 7 months, simply by limiting my caloric intake to 1300 calories per day, and all it cost me was the cost of a small digital food scale. Not to mention that I saved beaucoup bucks by not buying two pounds of beef every week.

In seven months, by doing nothing more than consciously reducing my caloric intake, I've gone from a 44" waist to a 38", and my goal is 34".

I've been told that it takes 6 weeks to modify a habit, and 6 months to change a behavior. I don't WANT big steaks anymore. I don't WANT big baked potatoes with sour cream and all the trimmings. I'm happy with a skinless chicken breast, an ear of corn, and a huge salad. There's a LOT of bulk in a meal like that. Enough bulk that in two weeks, a small steak (5 oz), half a baked potato, and a big salad makes you FULL.

My Bestest Friend in the World, my Confidante, my Bodyguard, my Biggest Supporter is my Sister. She currently weighs in at close to 325 lbs. She's tried every fad diet you've heard of in our lifetime. She's a big girl; 5'10", and for some strange reason she's scared of trying what I did... limiting calories and fat. I think I've finally convinced her though... if only indirectly; my friends are her friends and they're starting to talk more and more about how much I've lost this calendar year... I've seen her recent postings on her facebook page and she's lost 10 lbs since Labor Day. It actually shows.

No matter your thyroid problem, limiting caloric intake limits the amount of fat your body can make. There are no arguments that refute this.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

20. I'll raise you a 500 calorie a day diet.

You're assuming I stuff my face with Twinkies and soda all day. I don't.

I was on 500 calories a day plus vitamins, B-12 shots, blah blah, supervised by a supposed bariatric physician. This woman has an M.D. and a Ph.D. I had a resl serious regimen of vitamins and foods with lots of fiber and various tasteless things that were supposed to make me feel full. I had to write it all down and look at a list so I would not forget anything.

After a few months, I skipped breakfast one morning and went to her office and they drew some fasting blood for a test. Well, I had a real swoon from a low blood sugar attack and that scared me.

I realized that I was absolutely starving to death and NOT losing much weight. I'd only lost six or eight pounds and hit a plateau. When caloric intake is restricted the body goes into starvation mode and hangs on to the fat. So restricted calorie diets didn't work, and I thought the whole concept was not a good way to diet.

I already eat small portions. I don't drink coke or a lot of junk food.

I used to have bronchitis and pneumonia for long periods of time--years. I would have weeks where I could barely keep any food down, due to the drainage from my sinuses hitting my stomach and bouncing back up. How much weight did I lose when this was happening? Maybe five pounds, when I need to lose 40 pounds. I obviously am not burning fat like most people would.

I'm refuting your argument. You may not make more fat, but your body will hang onto the fat it has if you restrict calories.

I don't think my body is using the food I eat, for that matter.

Adrenal fatigue makes me exhausted after exercise too. Like, ten minutes on the treadmill at a max of 3 mph??? What happens? I go home and sleep for fourteen hours. That is not normal. My doctor ignores my adrenal fatigue, as I said above.

:banghead:

[eridani]

26. Right. And if you are black and want your skin to be a lot lighter--

--just stay out of the effin' sun already! If you don't see results, then you are doing it wrong. I know that I do it right because my skin is much lighter when I stay out of the sun. So what's the matter with those people? :sarcasm:

[hedgehog]

64. Good one! I 'm going to pass that on!

[Vickers]

27. "I don't think my body is using the food I eat, for that matter."

?????

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. It is called malaobsrtion

and it is a real problem with certain diseases. Chrons and Celiacs jump at me.

Not so obvious, some meds can also cause it... metmorfin long term and vitamin D... why I take Vit D these days.

[AspenRose]

77. Hashimotos sufferers also have problems absorbing Vitamin D.

There's also a connection between Hashimotos (or most autoimmune disorders) and gluten intolerance, which also affects absorption.

Everything you and the OP say regarding this is 100% true. It is infuriating more endocrinologists aren't more knowledgable.

[LiberalAndProud]

34. Can you get a new doctor?

Either you're not talking or your doctor isn't listening. You know there is something wrong and your doctor isn't paying attention. Time for a better doctor, I would think.

[Progressive_In_NC]

42. I was in the same boat 388lbs

On a 1000 calorie a day diet and not losing any weight. I went to a nutrionist in addition to my doctor who told me I was starving myself to death. He helped me to figure out my safe weight loss calorie range, which is 1000 calories under what I needed to take in to maintain my body weight, which at 388 lbs was about 4,000 per day.

So he put me on a 2900 calorie per day diet, and the pounds started falling off. I weighed this morning and I'm down to 305 in just under a year. 83 lbs! And I was a basketball player in HS and a walkon in college who never weighed more than 205 lbs at 6'5". Then I got a job travelling, and never working out, and eating hotel food all of the time. Top it all off with hypothyroidism and I almost doubled my weight.

you are right about this:

You may not make more fat, but your body will hang onto the fat it has if you restrict calories.

It happened to me for years. Now I have good thyroid meds and I am taking an HGH, Vitamins, and Testosterone stimulators.

If all goes well, in another year, I'll be down another 80 lbs. But it took 5 years and three docs to figure it all out.

[wuvuj]

29. You've got the right ideas...

...so check out Mercola's FREE Nuritional Typing Test?

http://www.mercola.com/nutritionplan/index.htm

It's not so much how much you eat...it's what you eat.

You will need to make some real changes....

I eat lean meats and fish....but mostly veggies...and a large salad each day. Avoid wheat and oats...most milk products...use olive oil on everything. Mixed type.

If it's not healthy...don't bring the crap home. Exercise.

There are some relatively inexpensive supplements like green tea extracts that can upreg your metabolism without hyperactivity.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. You know eight classes of gree tea is what might help you burn

an extra 50 calories.

You are looking for magic bullets, there are things that are OFF the norm. And hypothyroidism is off the norm.

[wuvuj]

102. Try this if you can afford it?

http://www.lef.org/LEFCMS/aspx/PrintVersionMagic.aspx?CmsID=116814

Green Tea Phytosome Cellular Energy Enhancer

The ability of green tea extracts to inhibit the breakdown and absorption of dietary fat has been the subject of research studies across the globe. Mounting scientific research has documented the metabolic effects of green tea polyphenols. A proprietary phytosome complex has shown an ability to increase the absorption of green tea polyphenols into the bloodstream better than conventional tea extracts — resulting in peak plasma levels of the critical green tea polyphenol epigallocatechin-3-gallate.29

Participants in a human clinical trial showed an average weight loss of 30 pounds and a 10% reduction in waist circumference in 90 days when 300 mg/day of this new green tea phytosome was taken in conjunction with a reduced-calorie diet.29 The placebo group that followed the same reduced-calorie diet lost only 9.9 pounds and only 5% of their waist size. Optimized Irvingia contains the exact same green tea phytosome as was used in this study.

...

I've tried a 500 mg cap of green tea extract...and felt GREEN all day. But I already take quite a few other phyto-extracts....think Day if the Triffids.

I also take an iodine supplement....iodine is a large part of ANY thyroid supplement.

And don't buy into the low fat crap...it takes good fat for the liver to burn the old bad fat. Plus the right kinds of fats curb hunger and keep you from overeating...the food pyramid is just another example the corporate control of regulatory agencies.

[Obamanaut]

33. You can make this sound, solid argument until you turn blue, but there

will be those who will disagree. I am not one of those.

[uncommon]

134. Exactly. Metabolic issues make it harder to cheat --

you have to exercise and you can't eat cavalierly because your body won't use the calories as quickly.

BUT, your body still needs caloric intake to make fat/weight. Weight increases come from caloric intake without output - that is basic thermodynamics.

Those who suffer from metabolic issues *do* have a harder time - but in the end, it is still a calories in v. calories out equation.

(Edited to add: This doesn't mean that it should be acceptable to treat heavy/fat/overweight/obese people badly or denigrate them for not losing weight. It *is* hard, and healthy food *is* expensive in a lot of places which puts low income people at a disadvantage.)

[BlueIris]

19. Informative post, thanks. nt

[Rebubula]

24. Many people...

...have legitimate physiological issues that prevent them from being anything other than 'big' and does not allow for much weight loss. I know several wonderful and beautiful people that have these problems.

HOWEVER - the overwhelming majority of people (myself included) are simply taking in far more calories than they expend. PERIOD.

You can dress it up anyway that you like it - but most people are obese because they do not eat right and do not exercise.

The US (and some EU countries) have large swaths of the population that is obese where the rest of the world does not have this epidemic in the same way. Does the rest of the world just have better glands?

I have no beef with people that are 'big' (I have about 40 extra pounds that I should lose - but I am not concerned enough to do much about it) for whatever reason as you should never judge someone on their appearance (though I laugh at some fashions). However, to say that it is all a glandular problem is myopic and self serving.

[JackRiddler]

65. Yes, most of obesity for most people is a matter of calories taken vs. expended...

besides ignoring the true physical variations among people (hereditary and acquired), this has been turned into a moral crusade on the fat, who are defined as valid targets for constant abuse in the culture, at schools, in the media, etc.

And at the same time -- and this is even more insidious -- the range of perfectly normal body shapes have been defined by the same culture as fat, and a nearly unreachable ideal of thinness has been defined as desirable, almost necessary, for all to achieve.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. When exactly did Mexico join the EU?

WHO KNEW?

In case you did not know, we are NOT number one anymore. Mexico passed us this year.

And it is ACTING like a damn epidemic by the way, and EPIDEMIOLOGISTS are starting to ask the right questions.

[TBF]

31. One of our problems is that healthy food in this country costs

a lot more than the junk food. That is a real problem when so many people have lost their jobs and are relying on food stamps.

On a personal level I gained a lot of weight with my 2nd child, and have been working to get it off. My eating habits could still improve. But we did adopt a rescue dog this summer, so since June I've been out walking 1 hour+ per day. I haven't lost weight yet, but my blood pressure dropped signficantly. I am starting to focus on the eating habits now to see if I can take off the rest of the weight. Walking and watching diet are a very good start for anyone.

But some of this is genetic too - I'm convinced of that.

[MajorChode]

50. A twinkie cost less than some vegetables

I've seen thinks like grapefruit and avocados go for more than $1 each. So yes, it is pretty sad that some of the best foods are the most expensive.

[wuvuj]

108. Wrong?

You need to buy your food at certain discount groceries...and avoid 95% of the processed stuff. I found that when I made a list and bought enough food for 2-3 weeks at a time...bought at a store where the prices are often 50% less than at other stores...I saved mucho bucks on gas and food. I eat soups and salads....don't go back till I run out...keeping me away from foods that I crave too much.

[LittleGirl]

35. just diagnosed

Had to go to an out-of-network doctor in order to get the proper diagnosis. She tested my pituitary gland in order to get the thyroid output levels. 5 yrs of previous thyroid blood work consistently showed normal ranges!
I gained 40 lbs in 6 months.
I couldn't sleep. If I slept 4 hrs in a row, I was happy but not really.
Exhausted all of the time.
Hungry all of the time.
Moody!
I exercised every day yet couldn't lose a pound.
I'm over 50.
And, all of the females in my family had this diagnosis after 50.

Thank you.

[Mimosa]

41. Thanks for the info, LittleGirl. n/t

[LittleGirl]

55. You're welcome also...

I had a series of blood work. 2500 dollars worth of which I had to pay $335 of it (in-network lab). She requested a Vitamin D level which was 220 bucks! It was way below normal. Put me on multi-vitamins + 3000 mg of vitamin D for a total of 5000mg. I heard another doctor say that vitamin D is really a hormone and not a vitamin. That was huge for me. Since I've been on the new meds and vitamins, I sleep better, I feel better, not so moody, and I don't have the digestive issues I used to have but I still haven't lost any weight. I try to follow the south beach diet foods. It's only been about 7 weeks and I'm very hopeful after feeling lost.

[HopeHoops]

36. "When you try my burger baby, you'll grow a new thyroid gland." - ZZ Top.

From "Burger Man".

[CTyankee]

37. I do not doubt this finding BUT

it has to be connected with something either in our food system or our water or perhaps just polluted air that is doing this to people today.

As I was growing up, I rarely saw as many obese people as we see today. When I look at a photo of my husband's German American family in WI, where beer drinking was common for men and women, back in the early 50s, I see some older heavier women and stockier men, but the younger ones are all, by today's standards, at more or less normal weights. They ate bratwurst and potatoes and all the rest in a typical German diet. I see that photo and wonder "what happened?" My husband's sister is not a fat kid in that photo, but she has a tremendous weight problem now and diabetes.

I have come to the conclusion that these medical issues causing so much obesity has to be related to overprocessed foods in our typical American diets. I wonder if this has been researched...

[Mimosa]

40. Something has changed.

Something mysterious, besides more fatty food and lack of exercise?

[CTyankee]

43. You can't get a more fatty diet, IMHO, than what hubby's family consumed

back in the day. Brats have lots of fat (which is why they're delicious!)as do other German sausages, plus starchy white potatoes, washed down with lots of beer, and still these folks weren't really fat? Hubby's family wasn't very athletic, either. They didn't do sports and led more or less sedentary lives (his dad was a supt. of schools, his mom a church organist).

I can't figure it out...but you are right, something has changed and I suspect it's our food supply (people back in the day used to have little vegetable gardens).

[flamingdem]

46. Lack of exercise is my guess. It's a numbers game and people became sedentary nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Yes, it is acting like an epidemic

how about insecticides that act as hormones in the human body? Just offering for your thinking or rather lack off, pleasure.

[raccoon]

51. Overprocessed foods certainly could be a factor. Also most Americans don't

get as much exercise as the average person did even 40 years ago.

Most people don't walk to where they're going near as much as they used to. Most people don't do near as much physical labor as they used to. How many people have push lawn mowers now? That's just one example, there are lots of other examples of tasks around the house that aren't as labor intensive as they used to be.

And, OP, I understand what you're saying. Another thing, some meds cause weight gain.

[DeschutesRiver]

54. Same here for dh's german relatives

I also rarely saw as many obese people as I do today. We have photo albums of dh's German relatives who ate and drank as you described and while there are a few stout heavy built people in those photos, they are in what I consider to be the normal range.

I have also reached the conclusion that part of this is connected to overprocessed foods, but I don't know the mechanics exactly. I do know our diets have changed to include things that don't even seem like basic foods anymore, and that more and more people are relying on these processed foods to be diet mainstays. I also rarely saw anyone who had diabetes growing up, and now this horrible disease is rampant. I keep hoping that the connection will be made at some point, to at least eradicate things like diabetes. It almost feels like that particular disease is reaching epidemic proportions. Something is not right about that, for sure.

[snooper2]

38. What's up with the other 120 million?

nt

[MajorChode]

49. The same thing that happens with the rest

When you consume more calories than you burn off, your body stores the excess as fat and weight increase can result. Fat does need to burn calories just to maintain itself (although not nearly as much as muscle), however more fat means it takes more energy to do the same amount of work because you are lugging around excess weight. Exercise can become more difficult. Joint problems can result. Chronic fatigue can play a part. There's lots of things that can make it difficult to lose weight besides thyroid conditions and the vast majority of these (including thyroid conditions) can be overcome.

[Crystal Clarity]

44. My sister is obese

She has no medical reason for it either. She's been tested and retested over the years for hypothyroidism and other possible causes. They found nothing. She's just morbidly obese. Period. Her weight had been in the normal to slightly pudgy range as a child, but once she hit puberty, her weight began to become and issue. By the time she reached her 20's and 30's she fell into the morbidly obese category and remains that way now at the age of 48.

She herself admits that it's the overeating and lack of exercise. She can put away enormous amounts of food. And since her work and personal life are very sedentary, she's been unable to lose most of the weight although the psychological counseling she's been in for the past 3 years has helped her to lose a little of it. So she's at least heading in the right direction.

Ok, so up to this point you are probably thinking that I'm not being very sympathetic, but quite the contrary, actually. My sister is an emotional eater and this (I think) is how she's been able to cope with the lingering effects of our traumatic childhood. All 4 of us siblings have some sort of self destructive 'issue' or another which I know for a fact can be directly traced back to pain we endured growing in an extraordinarily dysfunctional and abusive family. We've all been diagnosed w/PTSD for example.

The obese sister is the only one w/an obvious (to others in the general public) problem. But the other 3 of us have, in our lifetimes dealt with different, but just as self-destructive issues as her. My younger sister and I have been fighting substance abuse problems for years and the other one has a serious 'hording' problem. All four of us have been in therapy and I'm happy to say that I've been sober now for over a year... my younger sister has just hit her year mark of sobriety too. I'm 44 now and cringe every time I think about all of those wasted years.

My point in telling you guys all of this is to say that even if a person's obesity is unrelated to any sort of medical cause doesn't mean that they don't deserve our compassion and understanding. My obese sister does not want to be this way, and it's not caused by some sort of moral failing or character flaw. Her's is simply an outward manifestation of the pain and heartache she's endured through the years.

It makes me so angry when random strangers mock her and this happens on a regular basis. One time we all went out to eat at one of those 'all you can eat' buffets. Some jerks at a table beside us loudly proclaimed to one another that they'd better hurry and get more food before "the fat pig eats it all". And lest you think that wasn't infuriating enough, they continued on with "oink, oink" noises every time she walked by. :grr:

No one can convince me that those jerks don't have some sort of issues of their own. Their 'assholery' is probably just one of many.

It's shocking to me the things my sister has to endure. And what makes it all that much worse imo is how prevalent and accepted discrimination against obese people is in our society. My years of substance abuse problems never made me the butt of jokes since my drinking was rarely if ever done in public, but that doesn't mean that my behavior was somehow ok... it just wasn't obvious to people, and even if it was, I doubt I'd have been treated as despicably as random strangers treat my overweight sister.

People can be so cruel. :-(

[Dash87]

61. That story is horrible. People can be so cruel. I'm so sorry.

:cry: :hug:

♥

[laundry_queen]

117. Thank you for your post.

I'm so sorry for what you and your siblings have gone through. I'm sorry your obese sister has had to put up with so much. Everything you said is SO true and SO spot on. Even IF someone is fat and it's not due to some medical problem, they STILL don't deserve to be treated the way they are. What they DO deserve is compassion and understanding.

I'm obese and while some of it is medical, I often slip back into old eating patterns. I am an emotional eater too and probably could use therapy to help me overcome that. Growing up, my parents were extremely fat phobic and I was often shamed for eating too much or not exercising enough. Comments were constantly made about my weight - and I was normal weight when I was a teen. I suppose that subconsciously, me being fat is a means of showing them that they cannot control me any longer.

Yes, I do overeat on occasion. I also go through long periods of eating extremely healthy (and lo-cal) and exercising a lot and not losing as much as I should (I have PCOS which is related to syndrome X). Doesn't mean I should be treated as lazy, or a fat pig, or any less of a human being than any skinny person out there. As you said, it seems to be the one thing that is still accepted discrimination. Getting caught with a hooker, or a pound of coke doesn't seem to draw the same ire as people who overeat and/or are fat.

[MajorChode]

47. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Your title says 30 million, yet in your text you say 27 million. The American Thyroid Association says the number is more like 20 million:
http://www.thyroid.org/about/pressroom.html

I'm not saying either is correct, I'm just saying there's a bit of dispute regarding the numbers. I've also seen some say the numbers are much higher, but these are just the numbers of people who have some form of thyroid condition. It doesn't mean their thyroid is making them obese. Hyperthyroidism doesn't cause obesity and may actually even cause weight loss. Even people with hypothyroidism don't necessarily become overweight or obese if they weren't that way already. There's no doubt that people who are obese have thyroid conditions in significant numbers, but the cause and effect of this just isn't known. Being overweight or obese most certainly does affect glandular function in many different ways. So the question is, does being fat make your thyroid malfunction or is it the other way around? As you suggest, more studies are needed. One shouldn't assume that because they are overweight or obese they have a thyroid condition. That's exactly why going to your doctor prior to starting a weight loss program is a great idea. Most people who are obese don't have a thyroid condition, they just consume more calories than they burn off. This is true even with people who have hypothyroidism, it's just that their body actively resists burning off more calories than they consume in some cases, so physics still applies.

[pipi_k]

52. Thank you for pointing this out, but...

I'm afraid it probably still won't go far in convincing some people that not every overweight person is a gluttonous pig who can't control him/herself.

I'm overweight. I also have anxiety disorders and am not able to handle stress very well. I only eat half of what Mr P eats, and that includes all the junk food and candy he munches on all day. Sometimes it makes me ill to see the crap he eats.

I'm overweight...he isn't.

Go figure....


:shrug:

[LoZoccolo]

53. I have an underactive thyroid.

I just take a pill every day and it's A-OK.

[Regret My New Name]

129. I don't have a functioning thyroid at all and I tend to do alright when I get my pillz

I do try to run regularly and watch the number of calories I take in. If I do that then I'm usually good to go. Which I'm pretty sure is the case with most people.

[krabigirl]

58. I agree. Also, so many of those SSRIs that are so freely given out can cause obesity.

[Missy Vixen]

63. I'm with you and Nadin

Unfortunately, I've pretty much hit the wall as far as this site is concerned with even attempting to explain the truth about being fat to those who believe that bigotry is a great attribute for a progressive.

I used to think that I would not wish thyroid disease on anyone else. I used to think that I should take the high road. No more.

I will always stand up for those who are being bullied, but wow, I've had enough of those who continue with their attacks on the fat. There's something more wrong with those who get off on their cruelty and shaming of others than there will ever be with someone like me.

[Count Olaf]

72. Don't give up and don't lower yourself to their level

You are probably helping more people than you realize by speaking up, people that don't necessarily respond, people who are not even DUers and are just passing through. Don't let mean people shut you down.

[Count Olaf]

68. I feel really sorry for all of the overweight people blaming themselves, being made fun of...

I don't care what your genetic make up is, there is something terribly wrong with our food supply that is causing this problem on far too many.

What has changed in our diet? I notice almost everything has corn(syrup or fillers) and soy(oil or fillers) in it these days. Both Corn and Soy are GM foods which have not been tested(we are currently the test) on human populations, however it does cause organ damage in rats.

And what of the obese children? Shall we make fun of them as well? Or should we consider that we might have a problem with our food supply.


I would like to STRONGLY SUGGEST to the people with thyroid problems...REFLEXOLOGY!

I know it sounds crazy, but your feet are connected to everything....and when you find the right pressure points, your body will begin healing.



I witnessed the miracle of reflexology long ago when I had pneumonia. My husband looked up the chart, put pressure on the right spot and suddenly I could breathe again. It was like night and day, I feel like it saved my life.

I have been using it ever since. My husband mounted a post so I could do it all the time, like when reading the net. I work on all sorts of spots in my feet all the time, and I have never felt healthier. I suddenly lost weight without even trying....and it started to occur to me recently that it might be all the stimulation to the adrenal glands and thyroid. Just thought I'd throw that out there.


To find the solution-do not look to the same people who caused your health issues-our medical INDUSTRY has an interest in keeping you sick and they appear to be working with the FDA.

look...anywhere and everywhere else...

[cynatnite]

76. I've heard of women having problems with their thyroids....

and unable to get a doctor to diagnose them as such. They had a lot of health issues as a result. One I know had her thyroid removed and her health improved significantly.

[Missy Vixen]

80. My former naturopath told me more than once

that the thyroid is the black box of Western medicine. In other words, it controls every system in the body, but any diagnosis is treated via a once-a-day pill and little else. It's joked about. In other words, those with "thyroid disease" are just looking for an excuse to be fat. Nobody cares to do research because, after all, the vast majority of thyroid disease sufferers are women.

The leading treatment, Synthroid, wasn't put through clinical trials till about five years ago. Yes. Synthroid was sold in the USA from the '50's on without clinical trials.

Those who live with thyroid disease manifest a huge number of symptoms, all of which affect daily life, and all of which aren't treated by the currently popular once-a-day medication. Some are debilitating. Untreated hypothyroidism can contribute to psychosis, for instance. The body depends on the hormones secreted by one's thyroid to regulate everything from clear thought, energy to get through the day, and regulation of normal weight to whether the body is too warm or too cold. Just getting a blood test is a minor miracle. After all, it's easier to get a prescription for an anti-depressant.

There was a study covered extensively last year on CNN and other press outlets on how poorly the fat, especially fat women, are treated at the doctor's office. They're not interested in finding a solution to why some people gain weight and struggle with taking it off. After all, it's not a "win" for the doctor involved. They're not interested in finding the secret to why anyone gains weight, because they believe it's all food-related. After all, there's lots of doctors cleaning up on a $16,000 lap band surgery, or a gastric bypass covered by medical insurance. If those people wanted to lose the weight, why, they would, and they're just lazy/shiftless/not worth their time/undesirable.

Fat is the last acceptable prejudice in this society. I will continue to stick up for those who didn't win the genetic lottery. In the meantime, it's possible to fire a doctor. I wish more people knew that.

[prolesunited]

78. This would be a more constructive thread

if you would not be so ugly at the beginning of it. You have valid points, but they get lost in the defensiveness and self-righteousness of your intro.

Take this, for example: I have seen many fat haters on DU say "glandular problems are RARE, ALL fat people are junk-food-eating lazy slobs, metabolism is a simple equation in thermodynamics."

I have NEVER seen anybody use those words, and then you put it in quotes, like you grabbed it from a thread.

[Scout]

81. you've never seen it, it must never have happened

i've seen it. maybe ONE single poster didn't string all those comments together, but i've seen all of them at one time or another.

perhaps the fat wouldn't be "defensive" if we weren't continually attacked, berated, accused of lying, being lazy, etc ad infinitum.

[prolesunited]

82. If you see such attacks, alert on them

Just because someone doesn't agree with you or see a problem in the same way, doesn't mean it's an attack.

I will definitely hit alert if I see someone doing any of this.

On edit, you never did address my point that starting a thread on the attack does not encourage dialog. If you are trying to change minds, attacking people isn't going to get your message heard -- whether on not it's deserved is a moot point.

[Scout]

84. the people who make those kinds of comments are not interested in a dialog.

don't be so condescending ...

"Just because someone doesn't agree with you or see a problem in the same way, doesn't mean it's an attack."

oh, poor stupid fat me, i don't know the difference between disagreement and a personal attack. :eyes:

i DO alert on posts ... then when they get deleted, you can claim you never saw them :rofl:

[prolesunited]

87. I didn't do or say anything ugly to you

Why you are being so mean and bullying toward me?

[Scout]

89. why are you being condescending to me?

don't like me, put me on ignore or don't post to me.

if i'm being mean, shouldn't you follow your own advice and alert on my posts?

:hi:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

83. Yes I HAVE seen several people say it's simple thermodynamics.

It's almost a direct quote. The engineers/physicists don't understand that human metabolism is incredibly complex and they still don't have all of it figured out. They think it's a simple calories in/calories out formula like you would be using in a chemistry or physics lab, as in a simple exothermic chemical reaction.

There are hundreds or thousands of chemical reactions going on every second in the human body.

I HAVE seen several people say it's a simple reaction. It's not that simple. They should go to med school and take some biochemistry and find out about it.

[Scout]

85. thank you. my metabolism is much more complex than a test tube. n/t

[prolesunited]

88. Sorry, I should have been more clear

Here's what I specifically have not seen "junk-food-eating lazy slobs."

Like I said, you have very valid points about the science and posting this new study might open other people's eyes about the issue. If you really want a dialog, I'm suggesting it would be more constructive if you took another approach.

I'm not even talking about the issue, just the approach and I feel like I've been attacked and none of you have any idea how much I weigh or what medical issues I've battled throughout my life.

[Hello_Kitty]

109. Your concern is duly noted. eom

[uncommon]

135. It *is* a calories in v. calories out formula - people with metabolic issues just don't

have as many calories going *out* as people without metabolic issues who have the same lifestyle and diet.

[Missy Vixen]

120. I've been here since 2001

I have seen those phrases used in every damn thread about fat people since 2001.

I dare you to find ONE thread that doesn't use them. One.

Go ahead, use the search function. I'll wait.

:eyes:

[miscsoc]

86. I'm obese and have no thyroid problem or the like.

Eating is just one of the few pleasures I have easy access to. I'm a junk food eating lazy slob; what's so bad about that? Why would anyone hate fat people in the first place?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

91. Some people need to get a life.

They have no empathy or compassion for anyone who is not like them. And I guess they feel superior because they are blessed with a fast metabolism.


My theory is that everyone is in pain of some sort -- physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. And you can't always see it. Most of the time it's hidden. Some people lash out at others because of their pain.

[TheBigotBasher]

95. Some people are built for the hunt, others for the famine.

Increasing levels of obesity have a lot to do with poverty, good food and gym memberships are not cheap. Food that is free of all the shit added as ingredients is even dearer.

Even if you got rid of all of that there is however in some people a natural tendency to be "overweight". Just ask any of the slimmers of the year you see about that prize five years later.

[WinkyDink]

97. But so what if people are overweight without thyroid problems? What'sittoanyone? "Keep your nose in

your own trough."

[Count Olaf]

103. Certain people are looking to reduce population

Bill Gates says vaccines can help reduce world population
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x94124



...might have something to do with the GM foods being forced on us, everyone gets fat and dies early....

Last week, a financial website published the Gates Foundation’s investment portfolio, including 500,000 shares of Monsanto stock with an estimated worth of $23 mil



Genetically Modified Soy Linked to Sterility, Infant Mortality in Hamsters



“This study was just routine,” said Russian biologist Alexey V. Surov, in what could end up as the understatement of this century. Surov and his colleagues set out to discover if Monsanto’s genetically modified (GM) soy, grown on 91% of US soybean fields, leads to problems in growth or reproduction. What he discovered may uproot a multi-billion dollar industry.

After feeding hamsters for two years over three generations, those on the GM diet, and especially the group on the maximum GM soy diet, showed devastating results. By the third generation, most GM soy-fed hamsters lost the ability to have babies. They also suffered slower growth, and a high mortality rate among the pups.

[Taitertots]

105. How many people with Thyroid problems are not obese?

What is stopping someone with a thyroid problem from maintaining a healthy weight?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

111. Metabolism that doesn't burn off calories, so fat accumulates.

My thyroid died when I was ten years old. I was put on Armour Thyroid (dessicated sheep glands).

I was of normal weight then. I gradually gained weight over 25 years.

[nadinbrzezinski]

116. Not producing enough thyroid actually

or none at all.

I take meds every morning. I maintain a more or less normal weight. (Ok BMI is at 28... much better than the close to 40 due to the Avandia)

[Regret My New Name]

130. Me...

Mine doesn't produce any of the hormone. I did manage to gain a lot of weight back in 2006-2007, I was about 235 lbs at 5'11. That mostly due to my poor lifestyle choices though. I managed to lose it and have been well under 200lbs (usually between 165-180lbs) since early 2008.

I think the op was talking about people who do not have such a clear cut case (also, some people do not respond as well to the synthetic treatments). With me, it's clear that I need the meds because my thyroid was killed with radiation when I had graves disease (or do I still have it? I dunno) That means a doctor isn't going to tell me that I'm the normal range. On the other hand, there are many who may have low thyroid production (or whatever), but not low enough for some doctors to view it as a problem that needs treatment.

[B Calm]

113. I would exercise, but I'm too out of shape. Instead I'll just blame my obesity on

something else. . .

[Manifestor_of_Light]

115. Ever had adrenal exhaustion and exercise fatigue?

People with adrenal exhaustion are not supposed to exercise.

It puts more stress on the adrenals.

[laundry_queen]

118. Here they come. nt

[Missy Vixen]

119. What's your point? n/t

[Ladyhawk]

121. Just found out I have hypothyroidism. I suspect I've had it for years. nt

[McCamy Taylor]

123. In my practice, I often see people who get thyroid supplements from "diet doctors".

People whose thyroids are perfectly healthy. Taking unnecessary thyroid is like taking unnecessary steriods---its screws up your body. People who take thyroid that they do not need, either intentionally or unintentionally (by eating cow neck meat that contains thyroids glands) can get sick. If you want atrial fibrillation and chronic diarrhea, go ahead and get some of the stuff. You can buy it without a prescription as a "nutritional supplement".

Telling people to take unnecessary thyroid hormone is like telling diabetics to stop their insulin so that they will lose weight. It is dangerous medical advice.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

124. I've never told anyone to take thyroid if they didn't need it.

The diet doctor I went to had an M.D. and Ph.D. She wanted me to take compounded thyroid from a compounding pharmacy. I stayed on Armour. I think she was incorrect in putting me on a 500 calorie a day diet, knowing that my metabolism would get even slower. I had so many different things I had to do on my regimen with vitamins and supps and all sorts of stuff. I think maybe ten percent of it might have worked.

I'm a big label reader.
All the so called non-prescription thyroid gland supplements I have seen say on the label that they do NOT have any active thyroid hormone in them. If that is true they are useless.

For 35 years I have heard the lie they tell people in the medical profession that Armour Thyroid does not have a reliable dose. That is wrong.

I have told them "I read the label. It says Biologically Assayed, United States Pharmacopoeia. They have tested it and the label tells you exactly how much T3 and T4 is in each pill."

That shut up Mr. Major Deity Board Certified Endocrinologist.

[Dorian Gray]

125. I wouldn't trust

any diet doctor or nutritionist who would put any patient on a 500 calorie diet. That deficit is so strikingly dangerous, and there is no way you could be getting proper nutritional support from such a diet.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

126. Story of misdiagnosed grandma with hypothyroidism:

Furthermore, the standard treatment in the UK is T4 ONLY -- which is Synthroid. Oftentimes that does not work, a lot of people need T3 also, which Armour Thyroid provides.
The people who make synthroid were sued some years ago for falsifying their data.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1318229/Grandmother-suffers-flu-like-symptoms-16-years-defective-thyroid.html


More Bad Behavior from Forest Labs - Makers of Levothroid, Armour Thyroid:
http://thyroid.about.com/b/2010/09/21/forest-labs-scandal-thyroid.htm

[stuntcat]

131. I wonder why so many more Americans have the problem than people from other countries.

Do the articles tell?

I've known friends/relatives who definitely had a medical problem- one who's worked hard to overcome it and is a lot healthier now, one who can't and is very depressed. I also know one who's just obsessed with food and now she's in her 60s and is terribly unhealthy.. with her it seems like pure gluttony.

[mucifer]

133. Since we have our factory farms in Mexico. The issue of obesity has become bigger there than here.

[Flipper999]

132. I'm sorry you've been offended, but...

I still believe that being overweight has more to do with one's lifestyle than with thyroid problems. Thyroid problems don't necessarily have any effect on weight. I have a friend to had been suffering from depression her whole life. She could eat a pile of food, but she remained skinny as a rail. Then one day, her doctor ran a test that revealed that she's suffering from thyroid issues. She received proper medication for this, and her bouts of crippling depression came to an end. Her weight never fluctuated.

Other people have posted it, but I think it bears repeating: our food industry is a major cause of our weight problems. Corn products, soy products, and other products loaded with simple carbs are everywhere. They add so little in valuable minerals, vitamins, and protein, but add so much in calories. These awful food-resembling products are inexpensive, and I believe that is why so many Americans rely on it for so much of their diet. With our shrinking middle class and our over-busy schedules, we don't have the money to buy or grow nutritious, non-fattening foods. Many wouldn't buy healthier foods if they could just because they're so used to the taste of deep fried and sugary food.

If this is mostly a genetically determined trait that people are largely helpless to avoid, then why is there such a heavy (no pun intended) concentration of overweight people in America? The other nations of the world didn't band together to export their heaviest citizens to America during the past couple of centuries. It was sad, but on a trip to London I made note of the fact that most of the really overweight people I saw walking around spoke with American accents. It's rough, but eating habits matter. A lot.