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Let's tell the Dems why we're not enthused for Election Day. They seem confused why.

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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 08:59 AM
Original message
Let's tell the Dems why we're not enthused for Election Day. They seem confused why.
I'll start; feel free to add to the list.

1) Where are the investigations? Where are the prosections?
Upon entering office, everybody in power decided to treat the Bush Administration as if it was just a bad dream; scary, but it didn't really happen. Boatloads of people that had cause to be investigated by the DoJ... walked away. These people are now highly-paid consultants, law professors, and media personalities. This was probably done to protect a handful of conservadems and/or campaign donors.

Keep in mind that the Reich Wingers have sworn to investigate the hell out of EVERY DEMOCRAT if they win, and they're getting traction with that position.



2) Not stopping the filibuster abuse.
The obstructionists have filibustered more in the last 4 years than probably in the entire 20th Century... AND YOU LET THEM DO IT!!! You didn't change the rules when you had the chance, you don't make them go on TV and stand by their decision... you just roll over! Dammit! The Senate is biased enough towards conservatives... there are lots of empty rural states that bias the Senate to begin with! Utah, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Nebraska, and Idaho have as much pull as New York, California, New Jersey, Illinois, Massachusettes, and Minnesota, which outnumber them by a couple of orders of magnitude.

If the Senate is not going to be at least roughly based on population, then get rid of the filibuster anyway! ESPECIALLY since you don't have the guts to use it when you're in the minority! (Still keeping your powder dry?)



Go on, add your own. DADT, stimulus, health care. I'm going to go watch Stewart and Colbert now and try to relax.




(And please K&R, if I may shamelessly beg?)
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. 3) We have the attention span and patience level of pre schoolers.
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. If Democrats will not stand up to Republicans, will they stand up to others that might be our enemie
Edited on Tue Sep-28-10 09:34 AM by Winterblues
They show they have no convictions...They feel they can NEVER win any issue dealing with taxes with the Republicans but rather than try they buckle under. Will they do the same against others they feel are very powerful? I am losing trust in their abilities to get any job done...What will be so much different when Republicans take over. Investigations of Democrats? Maybe they need to be investigated. What causes them such fear? What are they hiding? I am beginning to feel I have no representation. The Big Bankers have plenty though; and I have no Health Insurance, and nothing that was passed into law will change that fact. Maybe in a few years, I may get a small subsidy to help in purchasing Insurance but it will still cost more than I can afford....They have almost completely lost me.. If they allow the tax cuts for the very wealthy to continue I will be permantly gone.....In fact I find it hard to believe they can allow ANY tax cuts to continue considering the shape our country is in. It just shows they have little real concern for our well being but only their own...Yea Tax Cuts...yea.... while America crumbles...
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BlueDemKev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #25
47. "What will be so much different when Republicans take over?"
You may soon find out. But then, it will be too late. Vote Democratic. Health care reform, financial reform, two outstanding new Supreme Court justices, small business aid, and Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy will mostly, if not totally, be erased soon.

Our country is moving in the right direction. Don't let those Republican-Tea Baggers take over. We CANNOT afford to stay home.
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Bull crap
They can not remove Supreme Court Justices and all those other things you listed will be done with the aid of Democrats. Tax Cuts for the wealthy, enough Democrats are for it so that it won't even come up to a vote until after the election. There will be no repeal of any of those other things since it would take a veto proof majority and I doubt seriously Republicans will even gaina majority let alone a Super Majority.. Small Business Aid..you mean more tax cuts when we are running record Deficits. A lot of our financial problems are because we are not addressing our Debt. The markets are leary..We are not demonstrating sound economics, we are capitualting to the Republicans at every opportunity..No nothing much will change, America will continue to falter, maybe at a little faster pace but even that is debatable..
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BlueDemKev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. The Choice is Clear
S.C. Justices...right, so you want to vote Obama out in 2012 and replace him with a president who will appoint judges raised on the Roberts-Scalia-Alito farm?

No, they may not be able to directly repeal health care reform but they can WITHHOLD FUNDING NECESSARY FOR ITS IMPLEMENTATION. Then later on they can say "See? The law didn't do what it was supposed to do!" It's like saying "See, the car just won't go" while holding the spark plugs behind your back.

Yes, the Republicans will most DEFINITELY gain a majority in BOTH the House and Senate if we stay home and refuse to vote. Their voters are fired up and ready to go. We cannot afford to be sitting on our asses sulking.

Debt--I am a fiscal hawk in my house, but the government is a little different. Somebody has to spend money for the economy to move at all. Currently, individuals and businesses are NOT spending--they're saving, paying off debt, rebuilding their 401k's, etc. Therefore, the government has a responsibility to pump some money into the economy to breathe some life in it, create some jobs, get money in people's pockets, and boost consumer confidence. When the economy is strong again, THEN we can pay down the debt.

We are moving a much better direction than we would be if the Tea-Baggers take over Congress. The choice is clear....keep the Democrats in power.


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rainlillie Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #50
72. Well said, BlueDemKev
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. Pre-emptive surrender and capitulation...
I can forgive trying for the stars and falling short. What I can't forgive is what is either at best a profound naivete as to the lack of good faith negotiation on the part of republicans, or at worst and most cynical and calculated surrender to the GOP's agenda. Either way, it's horrible, inept negotiation and their usual bringing a spork to a knife fight approach that has been going on far too long and that they've failed to learn from.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
34. Here's some additions: From "It's the Moral Authority, Stupid" by Peter Daou
Edited on Tue Sep-28-10 09:51 AM by KoKo
Lets face it, these are dark days for the left. As we barrel toward the November elections and an almost certain triumph for the GOP, we are losing the national debate and making giant strides backward on key issues. Its the new (un)reality:

* George W. Bush is steadily and surely being rehabilitated and now the question is how much gratitude we owe him.
* Sarah Palin can move the public discourse with a single tweet, promoting a worldview consisting of unreflective, nationalistic soundbites.
* Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Fox are dominating the national conversation, feeding a steady stream of propaganda packaged as moral platitudes to tens of millions of true believers.
* In the face of overwhelming evidence, climate deniers are choking the life out of the environmental movement and willfully condemning humanity to a calamitous future.
* From ACORN to Van Jones, liberal scalps are being taken with impunity.
* Feminism is being redefined and repossessed by anti-feminists.
* Women are facing an all-out assault on choice.
* Martin Luther King Jr.s legacy is being co-opted by a radio jock.
* Schoolbooks are being rewritten to reflect the radical rights anti-science views.
* The rich-poor divide grows by the minute and teachers and nurses struggle to get by while bankers get massive bonuses.
* We mark the end of a war based on lies with congratulations to all, and we escalate another war with scarce resources that could save countless lives.
* An oil spill that should have been a historic inflection point gets excised from public awareness by our own government and disappears down the memory hole (until the next disaster).
* Guns abound and the far rights interpretation of the second amendment (the only one that seems to matter) is now inviolate.
* Bigotry and discrimination against immigrants, against Muslims, against gays and lesbians is mainstream and rampant.
* The frightening unconstitutional excesses of the Bush administration have been enshrined and reinforced by a Democratic White House, ensuring that they will become precedent and practice.
* Girls and women across the planet continue to get beaten, raped, ravaged, mutilated, and murdered while sports games induce a more passionate response.

While Democrats obsess over Christine ODonnells witchcraft and John Boehners tan, and while Palin and Beck spew trite soundbites about defending the Constitution, the White House is getting away with a chilling, precedent-setting Constitutional breach.

http://peterdaou.com/author/peter-daou/
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #34
64. +1 nt
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #34
65. dupe
Edited on Tue Sep-28-10 01:25 PM by SammyWinstonJack
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27inCali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
75. oh god! the defeatism!!! the sky is falling!!!!!
The Corporate media!!!!!!- They've been doing this shit for years, we've been fighting it for years, it ain't new, it ain't gonna bring the sky down.

generic ballot is tied. There are a few more weeks left to continue to build momentum, can't do that if everyone wants to play chicken little.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. Starting EVERY debate by conceding your strongest talking points
to the Repubs, with the result that the Dems open weakly and go downhill from there.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. Another good one! Starting from the compromise and working down from there n/t
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
56. +100
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. "you don't make them go on TV and stand by their decision" Filibuster is not like in the old movies
All they have to do to is vote against cloture. That's it.

It isn't melodramatic and TV worthy like "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington."

So there isn't really any "make them go on TV"
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. And Reid can make them vote against cloture again and again.
But he fails to do do. They also fail to manage this on the level of the popular media. This should have been a talking point, a flash point. Abuse of parlimentary procedure, etc. The Repubes already figured out how to cow the Dems into not filibustering, and the Dems are too scared or too gutless to turn the tables!
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. "a talking point" It has been. Other than Rachel Maddow, no media outlet talks about it
It is extremely frustrating to me that only Maddow and Olbermann give any airtime to this issue. That is two hours out of the day. Every other media outlet appears to take Republicans Talking Points at face value, and approaches Democrats with extreme skepticism.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Exactly. And the Dems can't even start to change the system that makes bad media!
:grr:
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Senate rules may be changed on a simple majority vote.
None of this filibuster crap is in the Constitution, or even statutory law. Therefore, they "have" to do what they themselves decide to do.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. It takes SIXTY SEVEN VOTES to change rules during an active Senate Session
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20011958-503544....

"Typically, it takes 67 votes to change the rules of the Senate. However, if the Senate votes for a rule change at the beginning of a brand new Senate session, it only takes 50 votes -- plus the tie-breaking vote of the vice president. The typical constitutional interpretation says that it would be unconstitutional to filibuster a rule change at the beginning of a new Senate, the Washington Post's Ezra Klein writes. Once a congressional session has started, however, the Senate is perceived to have acquiesced to the previous Senate's rules, thereby requiring 67 votes for a change."

So while it is true that the rules can be changed with a majority vote at the beginning of a new Senate session, once the session has started it requires 67,

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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. "at the beginning of a brand new Senate session, it only takes 50 votes"
:shrug:
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #26
48. Yes, the Dems were very stupid for expecting that a handful of Republicans would cooperate
Edited on Tue Sep-28-10 10:53 AM by emulatorloo
In the past there were republicans who would - initially it seemed like Snowe Collins and a few others were reliable. So they didn't change the rules when the session started.

However the Republican leadership had another plan.
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The Uncola Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
37. Horsepucky.
This isn't rocket science, friend. Make 'em actually do the deed, not just say they would. Need to borrow my spine?
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. "Bush Admin prosecutions" are Exhibit #1 for unrealistic lefty pipe dreams
Edited on Tue Sep-28-10 09:09 AM by Richardo
They'll never happen, they never had a chance of happening. Ever.

If that's what's keeping you from the ballot box, you'll never vote again.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. moderates are the problem here, they seem ok with criminal activity
so have a good time righty! where is your circle D?
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Reality
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Deal.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. oh gosh you really hurt my feelings, the reality shock will be yours
anti up new dem
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. It's not about me, it's about Democratic voters.
If Dems aren't turning out to vote, aren't doing the campaign work or making the campaign donations, then what is the fate of the Democratic party? If the party leaders are aware of this, why do they do it? If you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, when why not do?

And what is the future of our country if one party is continually lead by the weak-kneed and cowardly?


The Repubes at least have principles they can point to and thump a podium about and convince people they're fighting for, even if they're a bunch of hypocritical assholes.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Agreed - but I'll wager the big turnout in 2008 was not fueled by the desire for criminal trials
Not for most people anyway.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:30 AM
Original message
I bet 2006 was. Although we have to remember that enthusiasism is contageous
If the base isn't enthused, it doesn't translate to the low-info voter or the recently-politically-aware independent.

"Jeez, the Dems seem really down this year" is not an image you want to project to the undecided!
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. I bet 2006 was. Although we have to remember that enthusiasism is contageous
If the base isn't enthused, it doesn't translate to the low-info voter or the recently-politically-aware independent.

"Jeez, the Dems seem really down this year" is not an image you want to project to the undecided!
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. you are correct it was for change, not logo changes, but undoing
everything that bush did to this country, and what have we reversed, well we are rebranding the new corporate democratic party, Otherwise were still in Bushville damn near 90%.
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kctim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #20
36. Aye!
Or to get rid of the fillibuster and DADT.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
41. Why? Seriously, why would it never happen?
Was Agnew prosecuted for corruption when he was VP?
Was Nixon facing indictment when he resigned?
What about the Iran/Contra conspirators? Did they, or did they not get prosecuted?

And what THEY all did pales in comparison to what the Bushies did.

So what is the institutional reason that prosecuting them 'never had a chance of happening'?

Something to do with this administration NOT cleaning house of the partisan appointments in the DOJ? Is that something that can be put at the feet of the Republicans?
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BlueDemKev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
51. Different Age
The media wasn't as intense back in the 1970's or even the 1980's as it is now. The internet has made it easy for anybody to start a blog and spread disinformation and propoganda around. With all the trouble our country was in (still is) when Obama took office in early 2009, if he had focused his attention on "getting even" with the Bush folks, people would not have taken that very well. Look at the heat he took for focusing primarily on health care reform for twelve months while the unemployment rate skyrocketed during 2009. Not saying that's Obama's fault, but in the age we now live in, where anybody with an IQ of 20 can start spreading malicious rumors around and people frightened or upset enough to take it seriously, the president has to carefully pick his battles. I, for one, am glad he chose to battle for health reform instead of trying to put some right-wing losers in jail.

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. When Spiro Agnew took bribes, was indicted and convicted for criminal
acts, it was not 'getting even'.

When Richard Nixon used the FBI to illegally collect information on political opponents, and facilitated the cover-up of illegal activities by his staff, the prospect of impeachment and criminal indictment was not a matter of 'getting even'.

We are a nation of laws, not personalities. When there is clear evidence of breaking the law, then indictments MUST follow or the public will lose all faith in the law and, by extension, the government and democracy itself.

IT'S NOT ABOUT GETTING EVEN. It is about criminals escaping justice.

And, I might note, it has damn little to do with Obama at all - it's the DOJ that issues indictments, not the White House.

If we are willing to allow criminal acts to go unanswered in the cause of political gain, we have already lost our democracy.

Welcome to fascism2.0.
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Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #58
82. Well said. Thanks. nt
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pintobean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. 3 letter word - JOBS
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. Note: That's a four-letter word.
Ironic?
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. ....
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pintobean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. It's a Biden quote
Yes, ironic.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. I saw wmws's link. My apologies.
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pintobean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. No problem
You have class. We could use more of that around here.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
70. No class here.
But thank you for the back-handed compliment.

:D
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KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
92. -how does Steve Jobs enter all of this?
hehe
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
9. Jobs, EFCA, DADA. New voters were brought on board with the promise that politics would change.
I haven't seen it happen; have you?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #9
30. It's changed. Now we have rabid teabaggers running around.
Obstructionanism and zero-compromise by the Republicans has become both normal and an admirable trait.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
11. 1) Bankster bailouts; 2) broken campaign promise re: NAFTA; 3) BP allowed to investigate itself
4) Broken early admin promise re: the prosecution of Medical Marijuana patients and caregivers; 5) Free trade with South Korea ( :wtf: ) ;6) A televised speech in defense of the "sanctity" of bankster bonuses (paid for with taxpayer $$$)....
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
16. Senate Bluedogs.
nuff said.
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
19. Why I'm disappointed, disheartened and growing angry.
1. Afghanistan :wtf: are we still doing in that hell hole?

2. DADT, we're talking about the basic human rights of American citizens. I thought that's what Democrats went to the mat for.

3. The war on public education and the men and women who labor every weary thankless day trying to sustain it.

4. Finally, the on going "Please sir, can I have some more?" with the Repugs.

Yes, I will vote Democratic in November (Hell, what's the alternative?), but DNC, don't ask me for money or free work. You brought me to the dance and left me sitting in the corner.
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COLGATE4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. K&R X1000. You got it right!
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Thank you, but I wish I hadn't.
:cry: or :nuke:
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
69. !!!
:thumbsup:
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
38. The President is upset because he sees what it is like to get
votes from those who are not so happy about giving those votes. What he and Biden are demanding, tantrum style, is not simply votes, they want votes and choruses of praise for them personally. They will not be getting that this time, and they should learn how to deal with it.
I find their opposition to equal rights for gay people to be utterly inexcusable, atavistic, bigoted, and divisive.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
39. Obama's campaign was about "change" and "hope"
In the context of the shambles that Bush left this country in, I think we had every reason to believe that "change" meant doing things differently than Bush and "hope" meant that this change would benefit the millions of Americans (and people around the world) hurt by Bush policies.

Ok...I did not think Obama was going to fly into the Oval Office on Inauguration Day on a magic carpet and, with a blink of an eye, make all well again. I knew it was going to be hard work for his Administration AND for us citizens. Frankly, I was also a bit leery of the Wall Street types he had surrounded himself with before the election and I had serious doubts that he'd be pushing the progressive agenda I was hoping for.

So I wasn't surprised when that agenda didn't materialize (disappointed, yes, but not surprised). I'm also a realist and knew Obama had to work within certain political realities.

But what pissed me off is that Obama is always too conciliatory with the very same Republicans who bullied and deceived and manipulated and plundered the country to the benefit of a greedy wealthy minority for 8 years. While I don't think he should've gone into DC like Bush (unwilling to work with the other side), I do think he shouldn't have be so damned eager to compromise before even starting to negotiate.

Take the health care thing as an example. Why not go in saying you want more than what you're actually willing to settle for? Isn't that what negotiating is supposed to be about? You start off with your best expectation and barter down from there. You don't just go in and start off with the lowest gain you were willing to accept.

Also, with the "death panels" and all that other nutty propaganda spewed by the Right: Why the fuck are the Democrats in general never prepared to fight back against that kind of smearing?

Clinton's first campaign back in the '90s was the only time in recent memory that any Democrats showed some spine in slapping down GOP lies. After he got elected on through to Gore and (especially) Kerry and now Obama, the Dems always seem to be taken off guard, they're always left reeling in confusion from conservative attacks and smears, and then THEY STILL WANT TO REACH A CONCILATORY HAND ACROSS THE AISLE...I don't get paid the salaries these supposedly professional politicos and communication experts get paid, but I can see the need for always being prepared to go toe to toe with the Right in the public arena of opinion.

They never do, though...it never seems to occur to them that they're gearing up for a rough and tumble game of political hockey while the Repubs are waiting for them out on the rink in a machine gun nest. No, instead they bend over backward trying to placate and appease Rightwing interests in this country, get shit on REPEATEDLY by the Right for their efforts, and then start verbally beating up the very people who want to see them succeed.

That's fighting for change we can believe in? That's hope?



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KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
93. it makes it appear that they aren't Dems, or the 'good cop' vs the Right's 'bad
cop'. What is now required to turn this ship of doom around is a hard turn of the wheel; or to borrow Obama's analogy: to get a big, powerful tow truck to pull US out of that ditch.

One technique that seems foreign to our Prez. but works-HAGGLE! Obama haggle! & personally call up any Blue Dog Dem to convince them to vote his way. He had charisma while campaigning, USE THAT NOW! Use the glamour & the impressive stat sure of the Oval Office to take America to the top. I know Hollywood is willing to put out films explaining the Left's world view, just like they did in the 40s & 1950s; in the 30s Hollywood took a decidedly anti-Bankster stance in almost every film. It also takes control of the narrative. I saw how Ron Howard & Henry Winkler made a video that was very pro-Obama, so it's not an implausable tactic.
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The Uncola Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
40. Call me selfish..
... but I'd like a lifeline BEFORE everything I have worked my entire life to build is completely gone. Two years of Obama and counting, and I'm in worse shape than when he took office, with zero hope on the horizon. Any questions?
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
42. K&R and begging is not required. n/t
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
43. I'm not enthused because bipartisanship has turned
our agenda into a friggin republican win and has cost us any hope we may have had to any
meaningful advances.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
44. Yawn
Post number zillion stating this won't get their attention at all - it makes them all the more annoyed at the constant whining.

Don't like what I'm saying? Too bad, it's the truth and every single person reading my post knows it.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
45. Recommended. Thank you for expressing part of the growing frustration. n/t
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BlueDemKev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
46. I Cannot Believe This....
Edited on Tue Sep-28-10 10:47 AM by BlueDemKev
....you're saying you would rather NOT VOTE and allow the Republican-Tea Bagging Nutjobs to take over Congress because Obama hasn't done enough??? Would you rather have had Obama spend his precious time investigating Bush's old cronies instead of enacting health care reform, Wall St. regulation, and aid to schools and small businesses? Regarding the filibuster....when the Republicans take the Senate back (whenever that may be) you want them to be able to pass the most right-wing, outrageous legislation at will? Think about it!!!

If you think there's no difference between the Democrats and the Rethuglican-Tea Baggers, you may quickly learn the difference next year. But hopefully, you won't have to....GET OUT AND VOTE DEMOCRATIC!!!! Let's keep moving this country in the right direction!

:dem:
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. Freudian slip
"Let's keep moving this country in the right direction!" Moving this country in the right direction is exactly what this administration has done.


Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time - Harry S Truman


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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. That's funny.
"Would you rather have had Obama spend his precious time investigating Bush's old cronies instead of enacting health care reform, Wall St. regulation, and aid to schools and small businesses?"

So what we have, instead, is Obama spending his precious time rewarding Bush's old cronies by enacting Republican versions of health care reform, Wall St. regulation, and aid to schools and small businesses.

I didn't vote for Obama. I voted for the principles he spoke so eloquently of on the campaign trail - which I've see precious little of since the election.
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BlueDemKev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #61
76. What the hell are you talking about!?!
"Republican Version of Health Care Reform"--Oh yeah, that's why EVERY SINGLE Republican in Congress voted against it. Give me a break! What's wrong with the health reform law that was passed? Because it didn't order the immediate liquidation of all private insurance companies in the U.S.? Get Real!!!

"Wall St. Regulation" and "Aid to Schools & Small Businesses"....Republican Version, huh? Oh yeah, I saw such STRONG bipartisan support for both those measures! Didn't you see Boehner and McConnell giving President Obama big bear hugs at the signing ceremonies?

Joe Biden was right.....quit whining! Save it for next year because you'll have PLENTY to cry about then! The Bush/Cheney years were nothing compared to what the Republican-Tea Party has become now.

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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #46
67. No, I never said that.
However, their attitude and performance is weakening voter turnout. I'm going to vote; my registration for my town is sitting on my nightstand. I had to re-register in Connecticut because I moved here back in June. However, they don't seem to understand why we aren't groveling with fulsome thanks 24 hours a day, and they don't seem to understand that THEY are the cause of it.

They picked the moderate, established Kerry over firebrand Dean in 2004 and it didn't help anybody... and they got puzzled over the turnout. Yeah, Ohio was stolen, but Kerry's performance was lackluster enough that it was close enough to BE stolen. Then they finally wrest control from the Repubs in 2008 and procede to continue with some bipartisan, compromise-filled, mediocre agenda and then wonder why it's not working and why they aren't going to be rewarded fo rit.

Regardless of how big the health-insurance reform was, it didn't fix a fundamentally flawed system and it will continue to be an albatross around the neck of every single business and worker in the country. The income-tax rates are fundamentally flawed and not going to be fixed anytime soon, leaving massive holes in the budget. The military-industrial complex has not been addressed, and defense spending remains both outrageous and sancrosect. Our foreign-trade policies are fundamentally flawed as well, and are not being addressed because that would upset transnational corporations. We're still going to be on a carbon economy for decades, and that will repeatedly bite us in the ass both militarily and economically, because we don't have the political will to start big programs to get us off of it.


I just hope we're able to fumble through all this. I'm comforted by the fact that the same forces that are at work here are also at work overseas, working to undermine our competition.
But still, it's a louse path for humanity to take. :-(
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quiller4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
53. Speak for yourself. I am enthused and so are most residents of my
precinct that I meet doorbelling.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
54. Response to point #1
I would have loved to see investigations and prosecutions. However, it was made clear early on that that was never going to happen. I didn't expect it, and Obama didn't promise it. I am deeply disheartened by the promises not kept, the pledges not redeemed: health care being at the top of that list, followed by the betrayal of DADT. I am angered by the pandering to corporate interests.

While I admire Obama's efforts at bipartisanship early in his administration, but that should have been abandoned a year ago as a bad job.

As for point #2, I was on these boards in 2003 (?), when we were screaming to keep the filibuster alive. The filibuster is an important procedural tool. It is being as grossly abused by the minority party as it was grossly neglected when the Democrats were the minority. But it exists for a reason. And who knows? We may need it come January. I hope not, but there you are.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. And that is exactly the problem... "it was made early on that that was never going to happen".
THAT is the problem. It's about good government ahead of party, and I don't think we have that anymore. The Repubs don't and haven't since Nixon/Ford... during the 70's a lot of shit was exposed even if it wasn't widespread. CIA stuff, a lot of it... things like assassination programs and crack dealing in Los Angeles. FISA was passed after the wiretapping abuses.

And the fact that Obama and other senior Dems weren't forced to make promises on things like the Iraq invasion, warrantless wiretapping, torture, etc., to get elected... shit. The people were not informed, not angry, because the corporate media minimized fact and maximized rhetoric. And the Repubs excel at that game, which in inheirently bad government. Bad government was glossed over, and nobody can even seem to say "good government" on the campaign trail anymore.


My issue with the filibuster is that the Senate is inheirently biased towards empty states that tend to be conservative. And with modern transportation and agriculture, that bias has shifted ENORMOUSLY towards those rural states.

Wyoming, North Dakota, Alaska, South Dakota, Idaho, and Nebraska are pretty red states; combined they have 6,044,390 people and 12 senators.

California, New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, New Jersy, and Massachusettes are all fairly blue states; combined they have 97,319,599 people... and 12 senators.

I did the math earlier in the year... the 40 Repubs in the Senate (this was before Scott Brown) represented 36% of the population.



If we're going to make it an easy process to filibuster ("Hey, we're filibustering; who wants to go out for pizza?") then we have to make the number required for a filibuster much higher. At least 45%, and I would like to see 48%. Regardless of who is in the Senate, this kind of logjam can't be allowed to continue.
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #59
71. Good points all.
I especially liked your math.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
55. 'tain't "THEM" that are confused!1 n/t
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
57. I take it you're not a Dem from the way you worded your post.
:eyes:
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Democratic leadership, but it wouldn't fit on the subject line.
:shrug:
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. So don't vote. You'll get what you deserve. nt
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #62
77. I'm not the problem. I'm all set to go vote this fall.
But neither am I the solution. The left-leaning independents are... they provide the votes to tip the scales onto our side.
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #62
85. Better, more caring, Politicians ?
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. FDL is trash written by scum. nt
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. Thanks anonymous Internet Poster !
Edited on Wed Sep-29-10 02:13 PM by Techn0Girl
Thank you for letting me know that Jane Hamsher, who I see regularly on such news shows as Rachael Maddow and is a published author, writes trash and is scum.

Thanks for letting me know! You better stop posting and go back to your job cleaning the floor at Walmart now because your 10 minute break is probably already up!
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
63. Neither of those things was reasonably to be expected
Nor was it the focus of that many voters.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
66. I'm rather centrist -- I have just two 1) that dog of a healthcare bill --
I'm pretty centrist, but I can see the wisdom of single-payer or at least a public option. I can also see the stupidity of mandating that people give money to the health insurance companies, as well as the stupidity of having the government subsidise private insurance.

Number 2) -- I would have liked to have seen a stimulus package that actually gave people off the street JOBS -- what's wrong with an FDR style CCC, WPA, etc?

I'm actually pretty much cool with everything else. Not that enthused about sending Dubya to the Hague, combat operations in Iraq are over, and there are far fewer of our troops there now, plus, Obama always said he was going to try to win in Afghanistan.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
68. My biggest gripe...not having a spine...letting repukes run all oevr them, asking for more...
then telling me I'm the one who is whining. Yeesh!
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
73. There are no investigations because this administration is doing the same damn thing.
As Bush did, only worse because he promised otherwise.
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27inCali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
74. I'M PUMPED TO VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS
My house representative kicks ass!!! My senator kicks ass!!!! Strong Liberals fighting for Liberal causes.

THERE'S ENOUGH ASTRO-TURF IN THIS THREAD TO RUIN A WHOLE BALLPARK.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #74
80. You nailed it.
Just not enough unicorns for some of these folks.

Way up above another post nails it too ... Dems have the attention span of a toddler, or in my view, a fruit fly.

I find it so odd that people who call themselves "progressives" don't notice "progress".

HCR passed, they hate it ... if it had not passed, they'd be just as angry. Same on any number of issues.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #74
81. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
78. Throwing health care under the bus did it for me....
Edited on Tue Sep-28-10 07:40 PM by Techn0Girl
That, and giving tax breaks to big business and letting the unemployed starve.
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BlueDemKev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #78
83. Health Care was Passed & Unemployment Benefits Extended & Expanded
Health care reform was passed and insurance companies can no longer be able to cancel your coverage if/when you get sick. The pre-existing condition exclusion bull shit is gone for children, and will be gone for adults starting in 2014.

Unemployment benefits have been extended and EXPANDED....the federal gov't was subsidizing COBRA payments for people who were laid off throughout 2009 and into 2010.

95% of Americans received a tax cut from the stimulus bill (Mine was about $800/yr).

What tax breaks for big business are you refering to?
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. Nice for you but on MY Planet ....
Edited on Wed Sep-29-10 12:15 PM by Techn0Girl
A "health " bill was passed that will cause even the lowest paid Americans (24k) to forfeit 2000 of their income each year to Big Insurance for a "health care plan" with a $6000 deductible.

On MY planet that unemployment benefits were DECREASED $100 a month last July by Congress and COBRA subsidies were ELIMINATED that month as well , presumably so that we can give more money to Big Business.

Fuck the tax breaks - they do NO good if you have no fucking job.

I'm SO glad that on YOUR planet YOU got an additionally $800 this year.

Sucks for the rest of the middle class on my planet though.

P.S. I don't know if you are disingenuous or merely highly ill-informed but either way you don't come off well.

P.P.S. According to http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut / you would have to be in a a married one earner family making about 90K a year to get an $800 tax cut. If that's so then it must be so nice to have yours while 30-40 million people remain unemployed and without health care.
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BlueDemKev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. Response
Edited on Wed Sep-29-10 04:35 PM by BlueDemKev
What health care plan are you looking at? There are plenty of individual health insurance policies available which are cheaper and have a far less deductible than $6K/yr. Even if we had a public option or a single-payer system, the cost of health care remains extremely high and we would have to pay for it either through insurance premiums or taxes. There's no way around it.

The federal gov't provided COBRA subsidies to Americans laid off during an 18-month time period. That sounds a lot better than NOTHING AT ALL which is what we'd have gotten from the Republican-TEA Baggers. I am currently on COBRA (no subsidies), so I fully understand how expensive it is.

I understand your point about tax breaks not helping if you have little or no income. The tax break I was refering to was part of the 2009 stimulus package. The link you provided is an old calculation based on pre-Election 2008 stuff.

The economy remains weak, thanks to lack of regulation on Wall St. during the Bush/Cheney years. The Democratic Congress passed, and Obama has signed a law prescribing new regulations on Wall St. to prevent (or at least deter) the practices which led to this economic meltdown. It's not a perfect law, but there must be something good about it if conservatives are so livid that it passed!

As for your personal attack on me, let me say that your choice of language doesn't make you come off that well, either.
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Techn0Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. You are SO out of touch it is unbelievable....
What health care plan - the one proposed by Barak Obama - THAT health care plan.
If you can come out and say with a straight face that there are plenty of affordable health care plans out there then we really have nothing to talk about: it's the same response that I would give to a teabagger.

Enjoy your 90K a year.
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BlueDemKev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. For Your Information....
....I made $34,000 GROSS income in 2009.

I am not saying health insurance is cheap, IT'S NOT. However, that is largely because the cost of health care itself has gone through the roof over the last several decades--it's now 18% of the nation's GDP! I don't know what state you live in or how old you are, but if you visit www.ehealthinsurance.com, you may be able to find a plan that fits your needs. Remember, your situation is temporary....down the road, when you are working full-time again, you may very well be able to join a group health plan thru your employer which will dramatically decrease your premium payments. If you are really hurting right now, you may want to consider applying for Medicaid.

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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-10 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
79. they've already been told and they know
this is a concerted attempt to deflect blame for the losses they anticipate.
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littlewolf Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-10 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
91. the reason all states have 2 senators
is they are suppose to represent the various states .... that is why Idaho has the same number of senators as NY ...
I wish they would go back to being appointed by the various states .... there would be a lot few unfunded mandates
if a senator knew the governor / legislation back home would replace him if he did not represent their interests ...
the House of Representatives is called "the peoples house" for a reason .... there is where the people are suppose to go
with grievances and bills they want to see passed .... that is why all spending bills must first start in the House ...
when the 17 amendment was passed it killed the states ability to rein in the power of the federal govt.
Just my take ....
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