Petraeus Cons Obama on Afghan War

[Octafish]

Here's why I'm with Obama: He's trying to stand up to the warmongers, but he can't do it alone.

Petraeus Cons Obama on Afghan War

by Ray McGovern
Published on Saturday, September 25, 2010 by CommonDreams.org

One thing that comes through clearly in Bob Woodward's new book, Obama's Wars, is the contempt felt by Gen. David Petraeus, commander of U.S. and NATO troops in Afghanistan, toward President Barack Obama.

SNIP...

There is little doubt in my mind that Obama knows full well that the Afghanistan war is a fool's errand, and that the only way to end it is to disengage, rather than escalate. Yet he is convinced - wrongly, I believe - that the he has no real political alternative but to kowtow to the generals.

Earning Disdain

Predictably, this behavior earns Obama disdain rather than respect from the top brass, who believe the President feels "intimidated" in their presence, as Gen. Stanley McChrystal is quoted as saying, according to Rolling Stone magazine earlier this year. Generals generally know there is a huge difference between being a mere politician and a real leader.

In Obama, they see a politician first and foremost, and have concluded that his overweening determination to appear strong on defense has the result of making him putty in their hands.

The generals are helped by the Fawning Corporate Media's (FCM) abnegation of its responsibility to explore and report critically on the occupation of Afghanistan. Instead, the FCM promotes almost sickening adulation of those senior officers who "wear the uniform," with row upon row of ribbons and medals, many of whom should be sacked for sending young troops into a war they know to be unwinnable.

CONTINUED...

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/09/25-2

These wars for oil are nothing more than nationalized murder for privatized profit. How can we help Obama stop the warmongers?

[Kolesar]

1. "It falls apart here"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9197340&mesg_id=9197404

[Octafish]

13. Rightwingers love to say 'Reagan's Star Wars broke the Soviet economy.'

War spending is doing the same to us.

Worse still, two illegal, immoral and unnecessary wars are destroying our national soul -- what it means to be an American.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. The new boss has met the real bosses and decided to cave.

Unfortunately, Obama is a "smart" politician and knows that acknowledging another lost war isn't "practical" politics and will continue the war to prove his "tough" creds.

Too bad about the dead.

[Kolesar]

5. ^Pure projection

He didn't say that

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. So?

Obama did say the FUBAR in Afghanistan is a "necessary" war.

[Kolesar]

10. You are tripping over the knots in your "arguements"

tough guy...necessary war...prove himself

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. So, his rationale for the "necessary" war is?

To defeat Al-Queda?

Defeat the Taliban?

Stabilize the region?

Install democracy?

Save the women?

I'll stick with my assessment of his motivations rather than his rationales.

[Octafish]

14. Possibly true, but I still hold hope there'll be change.

The guy came into office with us at his back, the Congress in his control and the nation and planet in need of serious action.

Thanks to the organized opposition -- from pukes, independuhnts and Dems alike -- things got sidetracked. The most important things, IMFO -- are ending the illegal, immoral and unnecessary wars, restoring Justice to America, and reworking fiscal policy in order to revitalize the nation's economy so it benefits ALL Americans.

Regarding the wars: Only by getting up and letting the warmongers in Washington know the jig is up will anything change. There is a serious problem when the overwhelming will of We the People is peace and the national policy remains murderous, unprofitable, senseless war.

That's not a democracy. I advocate we take it back by letting our "elected" representatives know who's in charge. And that means sacking the "secret government" types who are the "real bosses."

[Kolesar]

29. I agree, and we ultimately have to counter the defense lobby

The weapons makers have way too much influence. And uninformed people and veterans think that more military spending is always a good thing.

[JVS]

3. If this is the case, he really needs to start firing and possibly having court martialed

[Octafish]

15. Agree completely.

Show the Pentagon and warmonger class who's boss -- the Commander-in-Chief, not the scrambled eggs class.

What would be obvious to the American people, were we to have a news media with integrity, is how often the same people who counsel for war and want the most expensive weapons systems are the ones landing jobs in the very industries that benefit from war spending.

The reason I started this thread, JVS, is the "Seven Days in May" scenario. That is what every president since JFK has been up against. And when the president goes along, he gets along.

[Cal33]

24. It so happens that several top-ranking aides of Obama

(Emmanuel, Summers, Geithner maybe?,...) may soon be leaving. I hope this will be
a prelude to Obama's finally making an about-face in his direction of governing. He
has gone "right" far enough the first two years. According to Robert Woodward's book,
"Obama's Wars," he's aware that he might lose the entire Democratic Party. Will
he be making drastic changes, and very soon?

It is a hope of mine. The possibilities are there. Although why he has been playing
footsies with the right-wingers for so long is anybody's guess.

[VMI Dem]

4. He's trying to stand up to the warmongers, but he can't do it alone."

:rofl:

[Octafish]

16. So you prefer not to try because that's not sensible?

Or is it funny because nothing we can do will change anything?

I find nothing funny about two illegal, immoral and unnecessary wars. And that is why I asked for help in getting them stopped ASAFP.

[Cal33]

25. Maybe Obama is trying, but is not finding it easy to do. Look

at all the opposition. The Neocons are out to destroy him, have always been out to
destroy him, and will always be out to destroy him -- no matter what he, or any other
non-Neocon president, does. I see that this is not necessarily personal. It's the
Neocons' modus operandi. Look at what happened to Clinton.

Obama probably needs all the help he can get. But how can ordinary citizens help him,
outside of voting for him?

[blindpig]

6. He knew exactly what he was getting into.

Damn Octafish, nobody in his position could possibly be so naive. Poor kabuki theater at best.

[Octafish]

19. The guy's skeleton closet hasn't yet completely chained his destiny.

The guy has taken the easy way out -- which is going along to get along.

Regarding his past: General Dynamics and the University of Chicago -- Rockefeller have pretty much shaped his character. I hope they haven't forged his destiny.

That's why I was hoping his new position would give him a better world view. That's why I say it's up to us to remind him we're watching and demand real change.

[Cal33]

26. Maybe he did know exactly what he was getting into, and

maybe also he can't help but to get through this phase first, before he can get to
the second one. All we can do is speculate. Which one of us can know for sure?

[mix]

8. Two faces of the ruling class

Let their records speak for themselves on the issue of war and peace.

[Octafish]

20. That's where We the People need to get.

In his face and let him know we got his back.

My biggest disappointment has been the guy capitulating to the capitalists, wringing his hands beforfe the warmongers and letting justice be handled by just-us types.

May he turn things around in the second half of his term. If he doesn't, his record will be what prevents him from getting a second.

[Cal33]

27. Yes. We should let him know strongly how we feel. If he is

still kowtowing to the right-wingers in his third and fourth years, it would be
too dangerous for us to have him for a second term. We'll be voting for another
Democrat, not him. This is Obama's last chance.

I personally think Obama already knows the above. It he doesn't change in the
coming two years, it will mean that he is not capable of changing. Dean, Kucinich,
Clark..... should be running against him in 2012.

[kenny blankenship]

9. Recalls to mind a nugget of American wisdom from WC Fields:

You can't cheat an honest man.

[Octafish]

21. Veritas.

Thus, it seems, every nation gets the government it deserves.

Here, we can't even SEE the real government. Otherwise, when I vote for hope and change, I'd get something more than help for the rich and hopelessness for the masses. Seriously: Wall Street bank bailouts and war without end while Don Siegelman faces prison and George W Bush runs free.

I want my government back in my control. That's why I want We the People to put pressure on the administration to come through with real change -- starting with ending the illegal, immoral and unnecessary wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and wherever else we squander natinoal treasure on behalf of War Inc. and its owners.

[stray cat]

12. so obama is an idiot and uninformed? I thing its that there are only bad answers to afghan

[Octafish]

18. Those are your words, not mine.

I posted this to spur the end to the wars. Looking at things from one POV, sure, there are "only bad answers to afghan." The thing is, we need to open up our minds to what is possible. And that means there are good solutions.

For instance: Why not disarm the country in exchange for a Marshall Plan to rebuild their economy? People in Afghanistan and Iraq are fighting for power and profit. If they have alternative ways for getting both, they might surprise you and give up the fight -- especially if they see a better future for their families and country.

Now the above is just one idea. I know it would have worked better immediately after the Soviet withdrawal in 1992, before the Taliban took over. It would have worked even better before the Soviet invasion in 1979, but would've meant Zbigniew and Jimmy couldn't hand the USSR their "Vietnam."

[Cal33]

28. So much has gone wrong in America that it makes our heads

spin. For instance, why would tens of millions of middle-class people vote for the Neocons'
Corporate America, when these latter are exactly the ones who are doing their best to rip us off and skin us alive? Are so many of us suffering from the Stockholm Sundrome? Have so many
of us been brain-washed by the 90% Republican-owned news media?

Apparently, yes! The general knowledge of the average American is appalling, when compared
to that of Europe and Canada. I think this situation has been brought about by the planned,
organized efforts of the Republican news media which began decades ago. When the people are
kept ignorant, they can be that much more easily manipulated for their own use.

The Republicans have done a great job. They have succeeded. That's where we are today.
We are being manipulated, and most of us don't even know it. And whichever president in
office at this time also has to move this gooey, sticky mass, whenever he wants to go in
a direction different from the one the Republicans prefer.

It's not an easy job. In fact, an inherently difficult job is made that much more difficult.

[Panaconda]

17. If you look at his voting record

and parse his speeches you would find Obama has pretty much been pro-war for most of his Senate career and now in his presidency.

Of course he has alternatives, he chooses not to exercise his power on this for reasons you can speculate upon but to say he is being fooled is far off the mark.

[Octafish]

22. True. But he's who we got right now.

And, no, I don't think he's being fooled. He, IMO, is being pressured by the Pentagon and their supporters in War Inc. who profit so handsomely from war -- from Big Oil to Wall Street.

Faced with massive public pressure, he might actually come to see the light. Otherwise, it's likely to be President Bush again in 2013. Then, We the People really won't have a chance.

[TBF]

23. It is very difficult to discern Obama's anti-war stance on

the same weekend that the homes of anti-war activists are being raided by HIS DOJ.

Please don't insult our intelligence.

[spanone]

30. he is the bu$h*/cheney messiah....

[L0oniX]

31. Sorry ...I can't be anti war right now ...the FBI will arrest me ...and disappear me...

into a torture chamber in another country.