USA underdeveloping according to economist Manfred Max-Neef

[Cleita]

Interesting interview by Amy Goodman with economist Manfred Max-Neef.

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/9/22/chilean_economist_manfred_max_neef_us

A lot of thinking outside the box by this person. Some excerpts:

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AMY GOODMAN: So, to avoid another catastrophe, collision, if you were in charge, what would you say has to happen?

MANFRED MAX-NEEF: First of all, we need cultured economists again, who know the history, where they come from, how the ideas originated, who did what, and so on and so on; second, an economics now that understands itself very clearly as a subsystem of a larger system that is finite, the biosphere, hence economic growth as an impossibility; and third, a system that understands that it cannot function without the seriousness of ecosystems. And economists know nothing about ecosystems. They don’t know nothing about thermodynamics, you know, nothing about biodiversity or anything. I mean, they are totally ignorant in that respect. And I don’t see what harm it would do, you know, to an economist to know that if the beasts would disappear, he would disappear as well, because there wouldn’t be food anymore. But he doesn’t know that, you know, that we depend absolutely from nature. But for these economists we have, nature is a subsystem of the economy. I mean, it’s absolutely crazy.

And then, in addition, you know, bring consumption closer to production. I live in the south of Chile, in the deep south. And that area is a fantastic area, you know, in milk products and what have you. Top. Technologically, like the maximum, you know? I was, a few months ago, in a hotel, and there in the south, for breakfast, and there are these little butter things, you know? I get one, and it’s butter from New Zealand. I mean, if that isn’t crazy, you know? And why? Because economists don’t know how to calculate really costs, you know? To bring butter from 20,000 kilometers to a place where you make the best butter, under the argument that it was cheaper, is a colossal stupidity, because they don’t take into consideration what is the impact of 20,000 kilometers of transfer? What is the impact on the environment of that transportation, you know, and all those things? And in addition, I mean, it’s cheaper because it’s subsidized. So it’s clearly a case in which the prices never tell the truth. It’s all tricks, you know? And those tricks do colossal harms. And if you bring consumption closer to production, you will eat better, you will have better food, you know, and everything. You will know where it comes from. You may even know the person who produces it. You humanize this thing, you know? But the way the economists practice today is totally dehumanized.

AMY GOODMAN: You don’t think the earth will force this different way of thinking, that we’re reaching the end?

MANFRED MAX-NEEF: Oh, well, yes. Yes. I believe, you know, that—well, there are some important scientists that already are saying, I believe. I have not reached that point yet. But some believe, you know, and state that it’s definite: we are finished. We are finished. In a few more decades, I mean, there will be no humanity anymore. I don’t think we have reached that point of it, but I believe that we are pretty close to it. I’ll say that we already crossed one of the three rivers. And if you look at it and what is happening everywhere, I mean, it’s quite frightening how the amount of catastrophes are increasing all over the place, you know, in all manifestations—storms, earthquakes, you know, volcanoes erupting. I mean, the amount of events is growing dramatically. I mean, it’s really frightening. And we continue with the same.

<snip>

<snip>

I mean, your country is the most dramatic example that you can find. I have gone as far as saying—and this is a chapter of a book of mine that is published next month in England, the title of which is Economics Unmasked. There is a chapter called "The United States, an Underdeveloping Nation," which is a new category. We have developed, underdeveloped and developing. Now you have underdeveloping. And your country is an example, in which the one percent of the Americans, you know, are doing better and better and better, and the 99 percent is going down, in all sorts of manifestations. People living in their cars now and sleeping in their cars, you know, parked in front of the house that used to be their house—thousands of people. Millions of people, you know, have lost everything. But the speculators that brought about the whole mess, oh, they are fantastically well off. No problem. No problem.

<snip>

More at link. You can watch the video but his English is heavily accented and might be hard to understand. Do read the whole transcript. He really has a different view of what a real economy that benefits all should be about.

[Cleita]

1. This is really worth a read, not for the prose, but

the ideas behind it.

[chimpymustgo]

2. K&R. Really astonishing. Going back to read the whole article.

[chimpymustgo]

3. He can't believe people aren't RIOTING in the streets. Here's more:

AMY GOODMAN: So how would you turn that around?

MANFRED MAX-NEEF: Well, I don’t know how to turn it around. I mean, it will turn around itself, you know, in catastrophic manners. I mean, I don’t understand how there isn’t—millions of people can all of a sudden go out in the streets in the United States and begin destroying things, I don’t know. That may perfectly happen. You know, the situation is absolutely dramatic. Absolutely dramatic. And it is supposed to be the most powerful country in the world, you know, and so on. And even in those conditions, they continue with those stupid wars, you know, and spend more, more, more millions and trillions. Thirteen trillion dollars for the speculators; not one cent for the people who lost their homes! I mean, what kind of logic is that?

[Cleita]

4. I think that the rioting may still come.

My fear though is that it won't be from the left but the righty religion and guns crowd. They know they are hurting but still vote against their best interests and when they don't get the figures in office that they like, Bush for instance, they will blame the Democrats with the likes of Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich egging them on.

I saw a bizarre sight today. I had to go into the "big city" today (not so big really) and I ended up traveling down the road behind a truck with a Fresno license plate heading towards one of our beaches with a kayak strapped to his roof. He had bumper stickers plastered all over the back. One was "Fire Pelosi". Another said "Palin 2012". A third said, "Democrats Are Making Me Into An Outlaw". Of course he had the requisite Xtian fish emblem too, but then he had a sensible sticker that said "Call 911 for Police, Fire & Ambulance". For a guy who seems to be anti-government, does he realize that Police, Fire and Ambulance are government?

I really wanted to yell at him, "Go back to Fresno, you Freeper and get out of my county!" However, I wouldn't have because his politics come out of pure ignorance and maybe we should try to be kind to these yo-yo's instead and try to talk to them instead. Well he turned in a different direction than I was going so that was that.