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WE DID IT! Keith will report on Air Traffic Controller story tonight!

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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:07 PM
Original message
WE DID IT! Keith will report on Air Traffic Controller story tonight!
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=5271...

Air controllers call for criminal investigation Eyewitness News Exclusive

(New York - WABC, May 3, 2007) - The air traffic controllers who were exposed to that carbon monoxide now want a criminal investigation into why they weren't allowed to leave their control center, even though they were dizzy and disoriented -- and trying to direct hundreds of planes.

Eyewitness News reporter NJ Burkett broke the story Wednesday, and has new developments.
If there is a criminal investigation, and there may be, the FAA is promising to cooperate. Now, Senator Chuck Schumer is demanding answers. The question is, why were the controllers forced to continue directing planes while suffering the effects of carbon monoxide poisoning.

Air traffic controllers brought their allegations directly to the Nassau County district attorney this morning, urging prosecutors to open a criminal investigation.

"It just seemed harder and harder to stay awake," said controller Ray Maldonado.

Controllers told us they were so sickened they could barely function, but were forced to remain on their positions for up to four hours directing large commercial jets from the FAA's air traffic control center known as TRACON.

"It slowly started to feel worse and worse," air traffic controller John Conklin said.

<snip>

Air Controller's interviews from Wednesday:

"It was like a fog," said controller Ray Maldonado.

"Sometimes it felt like I couldn't clearly put together something that I normally would have at any other time. You know what I mean?" air controller John Conklin said.

"I remember just being extremely fatigued ... very tired, very sleepy. It took a lot to stay awake that night," Maldonado said.

"Headaches, nausea, dizziness, disorientation, fatigue, inability to focus, not able to concentrate. We had these employees who were in no condition to do this job being directed to continue with this job," said Iacopelli.

"They said, 'no, we're not calling the fire department,'" Conklin said.

"The employees there said, 'Well, we'll call the local fire department and have them come in to test the air. And the operations manager in charge informed them that, 'If you make the call, I will not let them in the gate and I will refuse them entry into the control room,'" Iacopelli said.


But the FAA:

Refused to let the controllers leave

Refused to call the fire department to take air readings

Threatened to prevent firefighters from entering the facility, if anyone else called them.

"They were prisoners of that control room!" said TRACON union president Dean Iacopelli.
<snip>

Please kick and recommend so we can get this story as much coverage as possible!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Congratulations!
I'll be watching. :)
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R - All the fault of the Unions, right?
Edited on Thu May-17-07 01:11 PM by ck4829
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. That's the way the FAA management will spin it
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. The coverall storyline.
.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
61. Didn't Raygun take care of that "problem" awhile ago? n/t
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. oh, that is great news, we have a voice through Keith Olbermann.
Edited on Thu May-17-07 01:11 PM by alyce douglas
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. 3rd rec!
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. k'r
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. HURRAY!
And may the story metastasize. . .
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yeahhhhh!!!!!!!!!!! This is FANTASTIC fooj!!!! Big Recommendation!!!
:yourock:
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Definition of TERRORISM:
defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

Can't get much clearer than that.

WE, THE PEOPLE, have circulated information across this country post 9-11 without ANY assistance from the MSM. We have fought our way out of the darkness and we can do it again. WE HAVE THE POWER BECAUSE WE HAVE TRUTH.

If I denied an individual the opportunity to remove themselves from a room (garage) that was filling with carbon monoxide...if I denied them opportunity to phone for help (Fire Dept.) or vacate to safety and then THREATENED that if HELP ARRIVED they would be DENIED ENTRANCE...

MY ASS WOULD BE IN JAIL FOR ATTEMPTED MURDER!
As it well should be! It's that simple. What do they mean there "MAY be a criminal investigation"??? There WILL BE a criminal investigation. WE, THE PEOPLE, will DEMAND IT!

I am spreading this story far and wide. I have friends who own travel agencies and friends who work in the airline industry. This act of domestic terrorism must be brought to justice. IMMEDIATELY.

WE ARE THE MEDIA. We have functioned as such since the "traditional" media has abdicated its responsibilities to this country. WE KNOW WHAT TO DO! Let's get busy!!!

There is NO WAY that they can SPIN this. It was a DELIBERATE act. Now, we need to arm our fellow citizens with TRUTH so that we all can safeguard ourselves against this type of criminal activity.

Thank you KO for speaking truth to power. But, most of all, thank you, FLYARM for NEVER GIVING UP! You are an inspiration. :patriot:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. DU history
Edited on Thu May-17-07 01:15 PM by seemslikeadream
:hi:

Why doesn't THIS warrant a BREAKING NEWS banner?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Air controllers call for criminal investigation ( Newark Airport traffic control)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Air controllers call for criminal investigationEyewitness News Exclusive
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. THANX for those links!!!
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. RayGun made ATC's fair game.



They still suffer a stigma from St Ronnie's persecution.




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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
55. Can you imagine being an air traffic controller
and working at Reagan National Airport?
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. k&r
I hope they all sue the operations manager for reckless endangerment, etc.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. Reckless endangerment...pffffft...
I see it as attempted murder. That's the charge that you or I would be facing.

Thanks for all that you do, Swampy! :hug:
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Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. which airport(s) was this at? n/t
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Newark.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Not Newark. New York.
The reporter (on the one news station that reported it) said 'Newark' once, but it was evidently a mistake.

Watch Keith.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R! Your concern paid off! Props! nt
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gaspee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
18. I don't get it
I don't get a couple of things... why would the people in charge want to keep incapacitated controlers on the job and why is it big news?

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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. National Security is A BIG DEAL!
Not to mention, attempted murder...
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Interesting questions
Edited on Thu May-17-07 03:09 PM by troubleinwinter
"why would the people in charge want to keep incapacitated controlers on the job"?

Why, indeed.

Why DID the people in charge keep incapacitated controlers on the job?

Why were they PROHBITED from calling Fire Dept. to test the air?

Why would Fire Dept. be BARRED from admittance if they showed up?

"why is it big news?" Why would hundreds of passenger jetliners in the air being controlled by incapacitated controllers be news? Jetliners with hundreds of passengers and crew in each plane. Planes flying above New York, a densly populated city.

Maybe you would regard it as "big news" if those incapacitated controllers had made a mistake or two or six, sending jetliners loaded with passengers and crew hurtling down into the city? THEN maybe you would think it would be worth asking why controllers were not allowed to leave the room while being poisoned by deadly carbon monixide fumes?

Are we "safer"?
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gaspee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
43. No, no, no
I get that part -- the why having incapacitated people directing air traffic is bad. What I mean is, so a shitty boss tried to pull the authoritarian crap. Why would he do that and why is it big news that one asshole went on a power trip?

Is there some kind of tie in to a bigger problem?

I'm still not getting it.

Is this an FAA wide problem? An isolated incident?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #43
76. Why isn't it big news?
Edited on Fri May-18-07 12:59 AM by uppityperson
Do you think an incident like this, even if a 1 time incident, should NOT be big news? All the hoohaw over security, over TSA and 9/11 blah blah blah and they make incapacitated air traffic controllers stay on the job and won't let it be investigated as to what happened and why and this should NOT be big news?
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #43
78. Google the Conair crash, 49 dead. The air traffic controller was working
a second 8 hour shift in 24 hours, alone. FAA rules say two air traffic controllers on a shift. Working 16 hours in a 24 hour at an extremely stressful job is nuts. Yet, the officials admit that it is happening all over the US. The number of "near misses" is up.

I would say that there are many problems that need to be addressed.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. As an airline passenger, would you want fuzzy headed controlers
directing air traffic?

Not a very safe thing is it?
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
37. I don't get it either. something about this story is wrong.
:eyes:
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
62. The question is not 'why is it big news?'.
The question is, 'why ISN'T it big news?'.

The person responsible endangered the lives of hundreds of people. We need to know why.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. I wonder if it was the same FAA official who put 911 tapes in different trash cans?
And isn't it some kind of crime to prohibit emergency workers from entering an area where they have reason to believe lives may be in danger?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
23. Great!
I'm looking forward to it!

Nominated.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Strength in numbers. Strength of spirit.
Truth will set u.s. free.
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windy252 Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
24. K & R (32nd vote) n/t
Edited on Thu May-17-07 03:15 PM by windy252
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
27. Congratulations!
Recommended.


Peace.
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Pierogi_Pincher Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
29. Good. Good. Good. n/t
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
30. K&R n/t
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
31. Well done!
:kick: for the dinner crowd!
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
32. Good.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
33. LOL!!! That's GREAT, fooj!
It's about time SOMEBODY picked this story up! Good going!!

:kick: :kick: :kick:
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. We are the media.
Flyarm brought this to my attention! In all fairness, she was the captain of this ship! It's all about teamwork, eh? :toast:
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
35. Thank You KO..this story is so important for Americans to know!!!
this is about national security!!

this is about all our safety!

this is about the safety of our airways..

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH KEITH OLBERMAN..THE BEST IN THE BUSINESS OF TRUTH!!

YOU ARE OUR MODERN DAY EDWARD R. MURROW..OUR NATION IS BLESSED WITH YOU!!

FLY
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. This one is for you and your angels, my friend...
:pals:
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
36. I was out of town when this happened and I don't quite 'get' the story.
How could they be physically prevented from going outside...and why didn't they?
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #36
51. You know they can't leave their positions w/o permission
You know that. They can't just go home. If they did, they would have been written up for insubordination. Why isn't the FAA explaining the OM's actions? If it was a matter of not letting local authorities into a federal facility--then why not just say that?
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Permission be damned. I can't think of any sane person who wouldn't
just get up and leave if they were sick. I work with (meaning I talk with) ATC controllers every day. I think they're like teachers in a way...underpaid for what they do and largely unappreciated especially by the general public. But these few guys didn't do what they should have...said "piss off" and went outside. No arbitration board or court for that matter would uphold any disciplinary action they might have faced ESPECIALLY given the evidence 'after the fact.'

And there are whiffs of conspiracy floating around the posts on this situation. I can't imagine any motive for supervisors to behave as has been alleged. Everyone in those facilities has the same mission from the newest hiree to the boss.
If they thought (as they're quoted accurately) they weren't able to do the job competently they not only had the right to 'excuse' themselves, they had the duty to do so. I'm not yet convinced there wasn't some perceived panic going on
as they smelled diesel exhaust. (This wasn't at an airport, it was way out on Long Island where they don't normally
smell burnt fuel like the guys in the towers at airports do.)

If I'm flying the plane, as example, and I perceive a potential danger such as unusual odors, I'm not taking orders from ANYbody, I'm getting it on the ground ASAP. Nobody has yet explained to me how they were prevented by any physical means from just leaving.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Karl, if they were to just unplug and walk away
Edited on Thu May-17-07 08:51 PM by libnnc
who would have stepped in? What was the level of staffing at that hour?

Edit to add: I live with an ATCer (Navy veteran with over 15 years on the boards).
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Oh, it would have caused a lot of confusion, no doubt. But not necessarily
catastrophic or even all that dangerous. Boston could handle a lot of it, RAPCONS at JFK, LGA, EWR and others could manage the rest, mostly. Pilots would handle it as simply a comm failure and proceed accordingly. There would be few if any a/c in the vicinity without TCAS equipment.

You do have a legitimate question about the staffing, though...and I don't know the answer. If it was adequate, there shouldn't have any reason why anybody who felt woozy couldn't just go outside for a breather. I'm not a huge fan of the FAA but I'm not especially a critic either, in general. But I do know their budget has been a matter of begging for many years...and now this new Admin Blakey is wanting to supplement their funding with 'user fees' instead of doing the right thing - aggressively requesting it from congress.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #58
70. did you watch the original report? the video all your questions are answered!
on the original ABC link..a couple controllers explained what went on..i suggest you listen to those video's..

the controllers were not permitted to leave and the fire dept was not permitted to enter to test the air quality.

but the most important part of this story , these controllers were responsible for air traffic over NY ..there were no backup for them available, and they were not allowed to leave.

and after 9/11 why is every air traffic control center not required to have air quality monitors when building requirements in most new homes today must have that equipment..and yet the air traffic control centers do not have that simple equipment?????????..why when all air traffic controllers get tested for every conceivable drug , or exposures to alcohol ..and yet the air they breathe is not monitored??

couldn't a terrorist compromise an entire ATC center??

and thousands of lives be in jeopardy??

the answer is , this is incomprehensible, where are the protections?? where is security for these workers?

i built a home in NJ two years ago..it was manditory that carbon monoxide detectors be put in the entire home..it was mandatory!!

and i don't do ATC in my home!!

fly
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spacelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Who was going to land those planes in the meantime? Planes
in the air, planes waiting to take off. I agree that the ATC should have been able to stand down, I know how incapacitating carbon monoxide can be from terrible experience (accident, not deliberate) so in the immediate emergency, what should have been done? Serious Question.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Coupla options
A week after the TRACON incident, smoke and fumes caused the evacuation of the control tower at Dulles. FIRE FIGHTERS ORDERED THE EVACUATION (At TRACON, fire fighters were not called, and the controllers were told NOT to call them, as they would be DENIED entrance!). The controllers at Dulles worked from a backup facility until all was clear.

If no backup facility is available, planes are diverted to other sites. Beats plane crashes, huh? (aside from controllers potentially dead from carbon monoxide poisoning)

Dulles story: http://www.nbc4.com/news/13285382/detail.html?rss=dc&ps...
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. That facility has nothing to do with landings or takeoffs. Well, not -directly-
anyway...since they do handle enroute aircraft, but it isn't at or even close to any of the major airports in the NY area.
As to what should have been done, I can only speak for myself if I were in that situation - if I felt sick I would simply do what ATC controllers always do...take a break. (They have the right to do that even if they're not actually -physically ill-, the associated mental stress has always been noted and understood and it's rarely a problem.

I don't know what to think about the claims the supervisor said he wouldn't allow the public safety people (fire dep't., etc.) inside...I think there is some serious informational disconnect about this story.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Karl, breaks are scheduled.
They can't just up and leave when they please.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. They can in every one I've ever been in. And I've been in a lot of them.
Edited on Thu May-17-07 09:39 PM by karlrschneider
...

I'll check for a reply tomorrow, I have to fly a bunch of people to NOLA early in the a.m.
'nite


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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. Not at CLT or GSO
That's what the sups or the CIC's do. They schedule people's breaks. Controllers do not just up and walk off of position.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #66
75. Have you ever been in the one that directs the 3 International Airports in NYC?
Are you licensed as a commercial pilot for passenger airlines? Stop screwing with the facts. You don't own them.

No one is making any suppositions here. Eye witness testimony (from all controllers working in the tower that evening) makes it QUITE CLEAR that procedures WERE NOT FOLLOWED by the FAA. It's as simple as that.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. Well, hey, OK...
let's look at it. Whether handlinfg enroute aircraft or landings, is it appropriate for air traffic controllers to be instructed that they must remain on duty when they feel "dizzy", "disoriented", "couldn't clearly put together something", experiencing "inability to focus", were "not able to concentrate", "sleepy"?

If your coworkers are experiencing the same symptoms you would just "take a break"??!!!! If so, I hope I never have to rely on you for safety.

Is it appropriate that when controllers express such alarm about their abilities to function that they want to call fire dept. to check and are told access would be denied ("I will refuse them entry")?

Several of these guys went to the hospital. The FAA isn't denying any of it.

Carbon monoxide is serious. Dangerous. People die. Sometimes without knowing anything is even wrong. My cousin was the lone survivor of a group of six men.




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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. go watch the video..and go read the damn letter Schumer wrote..
Edited on Thu May-17-07 10:57 PM by flyarm
or you have a total disconnect with what actually happened..you are simply guessing at what occured and you would be incorrect.

the story is abouve..did you watch the video? did you read the letter Schumer wrote, did you see both video's??

if not you are guessing

fly
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #64
79. Speculation hat on...

Fantasy Scenario Begins:
This is a test of the Emergency ATC Chemical Broadcast Unit. This is only a test.

Had this been an actual emergency. Several towers would have been struck at once and control rooms would have gone dark.

This was only test. Please resume your normal operations. We will report fully to someone other than you.
Fantasy Scenario End:

I worked with a company once that had the job of hacking systems to uncover problems that needed to be fixed. Nobody knew it was being done. To all onlookers the test looked like a real attack of the systems. Homeland Security? Private Contractor? A real accident? Two in one week. Same MO. Hmmmm....it warrants a FULL investigation and some serious remedies put in place.

Speculation hat off...

Good job fly and fooj...KO rocks.

Links:
http://www.aviationtoday.com/categories/atc/11303.html
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=5309...

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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #54
69. Perhaps you prove the point exactly.
Perhaps the controllers did not make their best judgement, considering they were undergoing hours of carbon monoxide poisoning.

I rather doubt that these men are subject to nervous hysteria (considering the nature of their jobs) and went running off to the hospital and demanding a criminal investigation from the prosecutor because they had hurt feelings.

I rather suspect that they are concerned about a serious matter.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
38. When and where did this happen??? Neither the OP nor the link informs us.
I'm lost.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. It happened in NY around the first of this month.
There are videos to view at the link, as well.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I didn't realize the location wasn't clear. :hi:
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. See post #44
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
40. Hey Fooj
:yourock:
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
41. Awesome
:woohoo:
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
44. HERE are direct links to the two ABC original reports in OP
Remember, ONLY one ABC affiliate in NY told this story. Keith is the ONLY national show to talk about this outrage!!! (even though we sent it to news orgs, who ignored it)

http://ww2.7online.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.as...

http://ww2.7online.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.as...

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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Neither of those links are live...
..
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
46. He just mentioned it!
:hi:
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. Looks like our work isn't finished yet.
Observations: These controllers were held LONGER than 22 minutes. It was OVER 4 hours.

OK. Now that the f*cking FAA is "looking into" installing CO detectors, we should all feel warm and fuzzy? I THINK NOT! I still want to know WHY these controllers were HELD AGAINST THEIR WILL in a potentially DEADLY situation. I also want to know why they were THREATENED when stating that they were going to call for help. WTF? They were told that the Fire Dept. would be DENIED entrance if they showed up. That's attempted murder. Period.

If I denied an individual the opportunity to remove themselves from a room (garage) that was filling with carbon monoxide...if I denied them opportunity to phone for help (Fire Dept.) or vacate to safety and then THREATENED that if HELP ARRIVED they would be DENIED ENTRANCE...

MY ASS WOULD BE IN JAIL FOR ATTEMPTED MURDER!
As it well should be! It's that simple. What do they mean there "MAY be a criminal investigation"??? There WILL BE a criminal investigation. WE, THE PEOPLE, will DEMAND IT!

Other than that (lol) many, many thanks to KO for having the guts to report a story that no one else will. Right on!
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
48. i'll be sure to watch this. thanks :) n/t
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
49. Yessssss! KO is just the fucking best.
Edited on Thu May-17-07 07:45 PM by lonestarnot
And DUers aren't too shabby! :yourock: DUers!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
50. #60! K&R
:bounce:
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
53. K & R !!!
:kick:
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
59. I am so glad Keith did this story, at least someone is listening to us!!
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #59
72. Like he said...
The FAA will continue this investigation and so will WE. That's EXTREMELY GOOD NEWS!!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
63. I saw it! n/t
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
73. False imprisonment and attempted murder.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-17-07 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. At what level does Carbon Monoxide become toxic?
Edited on Fri May-18-07 12:26 AM by fooj
Carbon Monoxide Levels - How Much is too Much?

What is carbon monoxide?

Carbon monoxide or CO is a colorless, odorless and tasteless gas. Due to this fact, it is very hard to detect the presence of CO in your environment. It is, however, imperative that the CO levels in your home are carefully monitored. Even at relatively low levels, CO is poisonous because it rapidly accumulates in the blood thereby depleting its ability to carry oxygen. Extreme cases of CO poisoning result in death.

Where does carbon monoxide come from?
CO is a common by product of the combustion of fossil fuels. When properly installed and maintained, most fuel burning equipment (natural gas, propane or oil) will produce insignificant amounts of CO.

At what level does carbon monoxide become toxic?
For healthy adults, CO becomes toxic when it reaches a level higher than 50 ppm (parts per million) with continuous exposure over an eight hour period. When the level of CO becomes higher than that, a person will suffer from symptoms of exposure. Mild exposure over a few hours (a CO level between 70 ppm and 100 ppm) include flu-like symptoms such as headaches, sore eyes and a runny nose. Medium exposure (a CO level between 150 ppm to 300 ppm) will produce dizziness, drowsiness and vomiting. Extreme exposure (a CO level of 400 ppm and higher) will result in unconsciousness, brain damage and death.


Extreme exposure (a CO level of 400 ppm and higher) will result in unconsciousness, brain damage and death.


TERRORISM:
Defined by the U.S. Dept. of Defense as "the unlawful use of-- or THREATENED use of-- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve POLITICAL, religious, or ideological objectives".
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #74
77. As I understand it, the levels of carbon monoxide was dire. Deadly.
I have followed this story for two weeks to see if there was any coverage. Keith is the only national news speaking of it.

How would one feel if your daughter, grandson, brother or friend were in the air that day as a passenger or crew?

What if your sibling, parent or loved-one were an air traffic controller being poisoned by carbon monoxide that day?

I think we should watch this story closely. The controllers spoke to prosecutors. Let's watch and support truth.
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
80. Botched...
Edited on Fri May-18-07 08:35 AM by saddlesore
False Flag?

At least the incompetence of the chimpster and his evil friends has some good points...

I will take off my tinfoil hat now... :tinfoilhat:

But this still has stinky residue all over it. :shrug:
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #80
88. Welcome to DU!
I'm right there with you. :tinfoilhat:
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Thanks
:hi:
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
81. This is great news, but where does Keith fit into the article?
Edited on Fri May-18-07 09:21 AM by Wednesdays
I don't find him mentioned anywhere in the article. Is there another source that mentioned he would talk about it last night? :shrug:
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. he has nothing to do with the article..he investigated the story as no other Media outside NYC local
Edited on Fri May-18-07 10:28 AM by flyarm
told about what happened..no National media told this story..you know the same national media that does Paris Hilton stories and anna nichol smith stories 24/7..you know stories that have no impact on your life or safety whatsoever!!..you know the same national media that show a turned over truck for hours upon hours..with no impact on thousands upon thousands of lives!! over a major USA city..

the same national media that tells you to be scared of the booogy man , but when a major failure of air safety occurs ..they black out a serious story..that every american has the right to know about..like again a severe breakdown of Homeland security...

does anyone here not believe the Air traffic control centers should have at least detectors for air quality ..that terrorists could possibly compromise..perhaps..you know, just a small item like that..and your media doesn't seem to think that is a story...that those controllers have no protection from ..the very simplest thing like a carbon monoxide detector, that every home must have in it now, under most state laws..


Keith is the only journalist , other than the local New York news to tell this story..

if you were watching NY ABC news the night they ran this story , you would have known about the utter failure of our air space in NY the night of April 25th..if you had say CBS NY on you would not have known about the failures of the FAA and our government, of air safety in our air traffic control..but if you lived anywhere else in the nation..you would know nothing about it!

Now you would know alot about whales in the waterway of Sacramento...watching our MSM....but you would not know your life could have been compromised by air traffic controllers who were being poisoned while you were in a tube in the air circling New York stacked up with hundreds of planes waiting to land or take off!!

Now Keith is the first to have told the nation about those serious failures, to both the people in those planes and the air traffic controllers lives being put at serious risk...and being held basically captive in the control center...until Keith told the story .. last night..

that is what Keith had to do with the story..he told Americans about it..

not just ABC LOCAL New Yorkers...

fly

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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
82. Carbon monoxide was used to gas Jews in the Nazi death camps
....Wth this act of indifference against the welfare of air traffic controllers, the present administration is now functioning very much like the Nazi Death Camp overseers... :wtf:
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
84. SOLUTION ANNOUNCED %^)
from an undisclosed location, an unidentified source has released the following CHANGES in FAA administration:

The GUY who stopped the employees from leaving has been fired and rehired as president of the world bank

WOLFIE will take over as Attorney General

GONZALAS will shift over to running the Air Traffic office

.... is everybody HAPPY NOW or do we have to keep rearranging these chairs?
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #84
86. With his newly appointedpowers,how long before
Gonzo issues reams of duct tape to solve the problem?
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Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
85. Instead Rove appointees huddled in prayer to be delivered from the evil gas...
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NovaNardis Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-18-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
87. Watched the report
Very well covered. Getting actual information from the news. Imagine that...

Although, that woman Monica whoever reporting for Olbermann... Did she do Chanel 1 back in the day?
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
90. kick
:kick:
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-21-07 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
91. kick!
:kick: :kick: :kick:
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