The silence on Obama's failure to prosecute the war crimes of the previous criminal administration

[beforeyoureyes]

is deafening tonight....

One million people in Iraq dead.

Their infrastructure is in tatters.

Millions displaced.

Thousands upon thousands orphaned and homeless.

Half the population now lives in slums.

The Bush administration committed criminal acts, and there is ZERO justification for this administration to allow this treasonous act to go unpunished.

Our international peace treaties are rendered meaningless.

Yes, the Bush administration is a bunch of criminal traitors who committed the ultimate treasonous act of committing our troops into war and murder and death on LIES.

But, the Obama administration has allowed this treason to be sanctioned.

And, that is simply unacceptable. Plain and simple.

[valerief]

1. Rachel is wonderful tonight. She's beating them up. Even had Engel on, too! nt

[lovuian]

24. NO WMD and a futile war placing America into bankruptcy

and Obama gives them all a pass

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chill_wind]

4. What a bizarre remark. Is everyone supposed to check in through you

when they create an account on DU?

[glitch]

5. What are you, board monitor?

There was a time when you were new to us, several years into the Bush regime IIRC, was this the welcome you got?

:thumbsdown:

[babylonsister]

8. No, I'm not a monitor at all, but when someone new comes

on here with a total bash of the current admin, I have to wonder.

Me, I was a shy little fly on the wall. DU was my first 'adventure' into online chatting and so many smart people were intimidating. It took me awhile to voice my opinion, but I've seen so many trolls lately, I do have to wonder.

So sorry if you don't approve of me, glitch.

That could work for trolls, too. :thumbsup:

And PS, this speech was not about indicting idiot son, so the premise sucks to begin with. It was about informing uninformed Americans that the combat part of the war in Iraq is over.

But so many DUers and this poster want to change the conversation.

:hi:

[G_j]

37. of course the speech was not about indicting idiot son!

that is a speech Obama will NEVER give!

[WinkyDink]

38. Yeah, well, it needn't have PRAISED Bush, either.

[zipplewrath]

59. Unfortunately you're wrong.

"It was about informing uninformed Americans that the combat part of the war in Iraq is over."

Our soldiers are still in combat. Their units just don't have the military combat designation any more. But Obama has told you repeatedly that they will still be involved in counter terrorism missions, and they will still be available to support the Iraqi led combat missions. I'm not sure what you think you are "informing the uniformed" about, but you don't seem to quite understand yet.

[Count Olaf]

69. +1000

nt

[SlimJimmy]

I'm been at DU since 2005, but just recently

started to post because I preferred to just lurk.. But here's a clue. I won't back down from my views concerning this particular administration. I voted for another Democrat in the primaries, so don't expect me to be singing the praises of an administration I had issues with from the start. Is this President better than the alternative (Oh yeah), but he is a very long shot from what I wanted or expected based on his campaign promises.

[Bluenorthwest]

92. Your original remark is now removed

Case rested.

[Steely_Dan]

108. I May Not Always Agree With You...

but you make a good point about changing the conversation.

-P

[Jakes Progress]

128. Don't care for the DU rules do you?

Maybe if everyone were just like you, the world would be something you like.

[rhett o rick]

135. I will never forgive Pres Obama for not prosecuting Bush/Cheney. nm

[rhett o rick]

136. Explain why Pres Obama loves his Alan Simpson. Explain that plez.

He let Shirley Sherrod get thrown to the wolves and did nothing about it, yet he kisses Alan Simpson's ass.

[Bluebear]

153. :crickets:

[rhett o rick]

159. What, that's your explanation? The Pres has let Simpson get away with murder

and yet couldnt wait to throw Shirley Sharrod under the bus.

[Bluebear]

162. I don't think you know what "crickets" means, friend.

IT means the question you posed is met with silence from the apologists, as if you could just hear crickets chirping and nobody answering. :hi:

[slay]

9. I've been here since 2004 - want to call me out too?

I was here for much of Bush's bullshit and what the OP wrote is correct, regardless of the amount of time he/she has been a member of DU. I agree with everything the OP said. It's sickening - it's like watching a crime scene get covered up. I won't comment on all your pro-Obama posts other than to say you post a lot of them babylonsister.

I'm beginning to think the Dems, in general, are just around to calm the public and pretend like we have some option other than right-wing corporate rule - you sure wouldn't know it by their actions though. Do they EVER intend to fight back, to fight for the people, to fight for what's right? Doesn't look that way to me.

They sold us out on health-care. They escalated ANOTHER pointless war, the economy is shit, but they didn't hesitate to bail out the huge banks that got us into this.

But most of all, they covered up a major crime in the USA's war of aggression - war for PROFIT - on Iraq. Obama is a republican's wet dream. I pray someone challenges him in a primary, and I'm not even religious.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_a-Su2SAnGYU/Sci2Cd1ZgbI/AAAAAAAAJYY/_5984xuAiso/s400/6th+anniversary+Iraq+War+Obama.jpg

[sabrina 1]

17. Well said and I love your cartoon. I suppose they think

we forgot. And it's interesting that anyone would be more concerned about 'bashing' a politician than about bringing war criminals to justice. No wonder nothing ever gets done. Too many 'team players' more interested in politics than justice.

[chill_wind]

29. You nailed it! n/t

[Raksha]

90. I don't think that's quite true.

Re "Too many 'team players' more interested in politics than justice."

The problem is that the people who care about bringing the war criminals to justice have very little power compared with the small minority of corporate psychopaths who actually profit from war.

[G_j]

119. politics over justice

exactly

[Lost4words]

33. +1!

[Hawkowl]

50. +1000

Awesome cartoon!

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

96. +1000% ... makes you wonder if we actually "won" the election...or whether

they just decided to send in a Democrat to do the dirty work W couldn't get done???

[JDPriestly]

76. I'm with you, slay.

We criticize the NAZIs not only because they killed so many Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, priests, nuns and pastors, and simply people who disagreed with them in their infamous prison camps but because they manufactured grounds for invading Poland and other countries.

And then, what did the Bush administration do? It manufactured grounds to invade Iraq. Remember, we were already controlling the air over Iraq.

Why did we go in? To get control of the oil. That is an act of aggression, an act of aggression that is illegal under international law.

Read the article on the build-up to the war in the April 2004 edition of Vanity Fair. You can probably find it in the library if not somewhere in a cache on the internet.

That will answer all your questions about whether Bush should be indicted for war crimes along with Tony Blair. If Hitler was guilty of a war crime for invading Poland, then .........

[Enthusiast]

130. The Bush Administration is guilty

of war crimes. Yet the entire American media acts as if event leading up to the Iraq War didn't even happen. It is beyond disgusting.

[ChiciB1]

134. MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY... And I Seem To Get Even More Upset As

each day goes by!! I no longer even contemplate watching ANY "pretty speech" Obama gives, or even care to watch Gibbs at all!

Something is really SCREWED up with Democrats these days, where they ONCE tried to Represent us, most don't even seem to care! And OBAMA, well I could go on and on... I'll just say I'm FLUMMOXED!!

[DeSwiss]

143. +1000!

[ipaint]

10. Authoritarians... so boring. nt

[sabrina 1]

12. You're not angry that war crimes have been swept under the rug

and torturers are teaching college courses while all are living in luxury, completely assured that they have nothing to fear, guaranteed by a Democratic president?

I was around during the Bush years, and I remember when we wanted him impeached, or at least Cheney or even Gonzales (who is now writing books on morality) we were told to wait 'until we have a majority and the WH. Seemed like an impossible dream at the time. But then it happened and the war criminals are safer even than they were during the Bush years. That is something to be extremely angry about imho.

[smokey nj]

15. +1

[babylonsister]

20. I think it's wrong, but did you know this prez would be

confronted with all the things he's had to deal with? I didn't.

I don't prioritize for the prez, nor do you. But what if that had been a priority and the economy tanked totally?

I don't have an answer; I'm as angry as everyone that these traitors got away with what they did, but I think this admin addressed what they had to first.

I also think since it's never been done, from a current admin to a prior one (I could be wrong, but don't know of it), maybe unchartered territory is a cause for caution.

I just don't know.

[sabrina 1]

27. Well, I think we did know how much damage had been done

to this country by the previous administration. And that it would not be easy for whoever the next president would be. I think the candidates knew that also.

I am not blaming the president. I know they couldn't just start prosecuting people right away. But making a decision that the firing of the US Attorneys was no longer under investigation? That should never have happened. And the hearings that were going on before the election, some of which seemed to be going somewhere, they could at least have kept them going. Let the American people to remember how bad the Republicans were.

By letting them completely off the hook, as if nothing ever happened? Now the public, which has a short memory, will forget and could very well put them back in power again.

I also think that letting it be known that there would be no investigations was a hugh mistake, better to have nothing at all and keep Republicans wondering when the hammer might fall at least.

But now that they got away with everything and they are all writing their books, imagine what they will do next time they are in power? Absolutely no consequences for crimes that were so egregious, that nearly destroyed this country? It's just wrong and I hope there is no statute of limitations on them so maybe in the future they can be prosecuted. Not to do so really harms this country.

Meantime, Don Siegelman is still being persecuted. At least they should have made some deals, gotten something in return for absolving them. Like the complete exoneration of Siegelman. But they got nothing, and Cheney et al are not even grateful enough to keep their mouths shut.

I know one thing, if the shoe were on the other foot, Republicans would spend their entire administration pursuing Democrats.

[flyarm]

30. There is no reason for caution, we are either a nation predicated on the rule of law or we are not.

If we are not, then we are no better than Saddam's regime, or any other dictator regime.

We either abide by our constitution or we are no better than a third world dictatorship!

That is the choice..we either abide by the rule of law in our constitution or we are a fucking fraud of a nation!

[FiveGoodMen]

47. Hear, hear!

:applause:

[Count Olaf]

94. we either abide by the rule of law in our constitution or we are a fucking fraud of a nation!

:applause:

[suzie]

157. It's the rule of law set up by our Constitution that makes prosecution of the Bushes and Cheneys

more difficult.

All that jury stuff, due process stuff slows down the process considerably. Usually, in our system, people have to be charged with specific crimes and the violation of those have to be proven. Tedious stuff.

But perhaps you want to change the Constitution just for the purpose of "getting" Bush and Cheney?

[liberation]

115. Bingo...

... some of the people making all sorts of excuses regarding the lack of prosecution are making a case that we're not a nation under the rule of law, I don't think they fully grasp the ultimate consequences of their "logic."

We went from "we chose to go to the moon not because it was easy, but because it is hard" to "but, but.. but doing their damned job is toooo haaaaaaard, so what can they do?"

Pathetic.

[Enthusiast]

132. No, there is a third way.

We are a nation predicated on law but law enforcement only for those of certain political ideologies or income strata. We pick and chose winners and losers.

[zipplewrath]

60. The ACLU does

And they explained it very clearly. The presidents actions are causing permanent damage to the very constitution he swore to uphold. What part of that do you think they are getting the priority wrong upon?

[dionysus]

64. truth is, the public would never go for it. the public doesnt want to hang bushco for treason,

and i'm amazed (no, actually i'm not!) at the people who think it's a good idea.

a good idea if you want to cripple the govt and get tossed out of power, sure.

[on point]

81. The public would go for it - if it was pursued

That is what backbone and leadership are about. Getting out in front and leading the people. The people would have gone for it as soon as the true extent of their crimes were revealed and that these were hanging offenses.

This argument that he couldn't is just plain cowardly and not worhty of our country. Either the counts and we prosecute war criminals, crimes against humanity and financial fraud, or we don't. IN that case there is no point in playing by any of the rules because the game is rigged and only the rubes get stuck with the bill.

[dionysus]

86. oh yeah, the half of the country that's republican will really go for imprisoning\killing their

heroes.

jesus christ, the stupid it burns....

[atreides1]

91. This way is so much better.

The stupid is failing to realize that those republicans can put into the White House someone who would be willing to take it a step further then George and Dick did.

Maybe even to the point of making Nazi Germany look like Disney World during summer vacation!

Not sure about you, but don't those who agree with the death penalty, claim that it's a deterrent? And isn't putting a criminal into prison something that the law and order crowd can get behind?

I think the DoJ should start an investigation and see where it leads, whether to an execution, a lifetime behind bars, or an acquittal. Justice is supposed to be blind and offending a political party isn't really a big consideration in that regard.

[Count Olaf]

102. If the media did their job and revealed the truth and extent of the crimes

Everyone would be demanding that Bushco be sent to the hague.

The teabagger movement began with people who were angry with the Republican party. Despite how the media portrays teabaggers, some of those people actually understand the truth and know about the illegal wars, have studied what really happened on 9/11 and want investigations into the bailouts and general robbery of our treasury through war profiteering.

We might already have critical mass, how many people do you know that still believe this government on anything?

If we already had the numbers, if the vast majority wanted accountability...would the media tell us?

[dionysus]

126. "If the media did their job" they don't. and they won't. i'm not saying it's a good thing.

[aquart]

112. Half the country is NOT Republican.

Stop getting your numbers from FOX. Damn few identify themselves as Republicans and Bush is one of the reasons.

[dionysus]

118. i don't watch fox. you can say what you want, roughly half the country votes republican

whether or not they admit it to anyone.

[stevenleser]

89. OK, what things have you led where your policies were against those you were leading?

Please let us know, so we can know the extent of your leadership experience and thus whether your opinion has merit here.

[LiberalLovinLug]

114. truth is, a majority were in favor of impeachment

An http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/MNSBC_online_poll_87_percent_say_1110.html">MSNBC poll in 2006 came up with 87% in favor

If you want a more scientific poll, http://www.democrats.com/bush-impeachment-poll-2">Zogby had it at 52% in favor

To me this implies that once the impeachment ball was rolling, and more facts about the deceptions came out, the majority of the public would have kept up the support to go further than impeachment if that is where it led.

Now that the corporatists in both parties have quashed the idea for this long and the MSM treats it like some far left wing fantasy, you may be right, but I'm not so sure that many would not jump back on board once proceedings started.

[DeSwiss]

148. The truth shouldn't have to depend upon polls of what people want.

If it did we'd never make any progress. The country didn't want women voting, but that was changed because it was right. The country didn't want civil rights in the 60s, but it came anyway. Because it was right and what we were doing before was against the Constitution. The same can be said of gay rights. As it is with this issue of our country complying with the treaties that we sign which become the law of the land. Either our Constitution means something or it doesn't.

- And if it doesn't mean anything and we can ignore what it says anytime it's not popular, then why are either one of us here?

[earth mom]

65. FYI-Obama and EVERYONE in Congress is VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION

by NOT impeaching Bush & Co for their lies and war crimes!

Every Single One of Them in Washington DC!!!

If there was another president in office right now-not Obama-and he/she was pulling this shit, you would no doubt be as outraged as the rest of us.

But you can't put aside your personal feelings about Obama and see him and his behavior for what it is!

Be honest with yourself and stop making excuse after excuse after excuse after excuse.

Bush and Co are getting away with MURDER-GENOCIDE-WAR CRIMES.

And Obama & Congress are letting them get away with it!!!

That's the cold hard truth.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

[Count Olaf]

77. not to mention the illegal wiretapping

Congress attempted to make it legal retroactively however they did not ammend the Constitution so they are breaking the law and we have it in writing.

They should all be thrown in prison. We need to start over.

[DeSwiss]

149. +1000!

You got it!

[JDPriestly]

79. FDR was confronted with many of the same things confronting

Obama, and he faced an extreme right-wing reaction. But FDR was a man with courage and character. Obama -- not so much. He can't even get the courage to fire his own economic team although it is clear that they are not doing what the country needs to get back on its feet.

His failure to indict criminals simply because they are wealthy and powerful is what we call cowardice. He is a coward. There I said it.

[defendandprotect]

99. +100% ... exactly right-! All the solutions are on the books...just reinstate them--!!

[suzie]

156. So, you think that the internment of Japanese Americans was an indication of courage and

character?

[SugarShack]

84. No no no...addressed first??? Justice for war crimes is not even on the list!

Obama said to move on...not dwell in the past. "look to the future" he said. Well, we don't prosecute future crimes, only crimes in the past. So it was not relevent to what he was explaining, that he is NOT going to prosecute Bush and Cheney, or Rummy and Condi. He has left our good name tainted in this way. Obama has been handed many awful things from Bush, economy, etc. Things that will take time to fix. BUT...he CHOSE to leave the war crimes alone. Really, this is something people are not forgetting. And it's not like he has a list of things he actually does. He could appoint a prosecuter and see where it goes....while he works on the economy and jobs.
JMHO

[defendandprotect]

97. Did the Founders provide liberty no matter the circumstances .. .or were they for wiretapping?

And arrests of American citizens without protections of Habeas Corpus?

Obama isn't being confronted with anything more than the rw corruption that FDR

was confronted with -- but it was clear what side FDR was on.

Obama's alleged "bipartisanship" begins to look more and more like letting Republicans

run government!!

We didn't elect a Democratic president so he could put Republicans in charge of government!

Did you?

[aquart]

111. Are you kidding?

You didn't know the housing bubble was about to burst? You didn't suspect there was a reason that any rational Republican was sitting the election out?

You never once read Krugman?

You thought it would all be tea and skittles while ice melted and islands drowned?

And you thought maybe they'd hold off attacking Obama because he's such a nice guy?

I'm sorry, but you're channeling Condoleeza Rice and it just sounds a little weird.

[bkozumplik]

113. lets start kicking some party arse then

Now is the time to make our party love conditional. If our party leaders get voted down, we go down, thats true, but the reverse is also true. They arent interested in being out of power any more than we are.

Unless our party leadership just wants to be unemployed, then they need us. Since they needs us, we can ask for some promises. After the election is too late to ask.

The time to make demands, and yes, to bitch about their behavior, is NOW. There is no later. Your input only matters for a very brief period every 2/4 years.

Come on, lets ask for things, and get the to admit that they havent been doing a good enough job.

Dont just blindly support them.

[rhett o rick]

137. The least he could do is reverse the Patriot Act and the MCA. nm

[savannah43]

144. Obviously , you don't know.

I would expect that this administration would be able to multi-task, especially since DOJ would be running the show. It hasn't done hardly anything else in nearly two years. BTW, paid soldiers are taking over in Iraq. Anyone want to bet that the cost of the "new" mission will be the same, if not more, than the old one?

[DeSwiss]

146. Covering over cancer doesn't make it go away. You have to cut it out or you die.

"Those who stand for nothing, will fall for anything." ~ Alexander Hamilton

[bluethruandthru]

3. +1000 n/t

[glitch]

6. Very well stated, and a genuine welcome to DU. K & R nt

[chill_wind]

19. I can also recommend this post (155 recs) she made a few days ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9038540

It certainly resonated with a lot of us.

[glitch]

23. Thanks chill. I guess I should have said belated welcome :) nt

[Count Olaf]

78. thank you for that link

that was a great post!

[LaurenG]

7. That is never going to come about

I doubt there will be accountability from any presidential action ever again.

Accountability is not coming, any hopes for fairness regarding the last president was over when Nancy Pelosi promised it.

[bongbong]

68. IOKIYAR

Only Democratic presidents have the threat of endless investigations hanging over them.

Even though both parties are branches of the one running America (The Corporate Party), the Dems are the "Corporate Party Lite". The other branch, sometimes called the "Repig" party, are mad anytime the "Corporate Party Lite" throws a crumb or two to the 99% of Americans who aren't rich.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jaxx]

14. Ya think?

Funny how a thread winds around till someone says it right out.

[robinlynne]

13. exatamon.

[emilyg]

16. Welcome to DU.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

18. +1000! Welcome to DU.

[MisterP]

21. but it's not GRACIOUS to tell true things instead of to fawn and lie and bow and scrape (sarcasm) nt

[Mira]

22. K&R

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

25. Sometimes

I wish we could all sit in the same room and discuss the real world of politics. I would argue that all Presidents are members of a club and they won't prosecute one of their own. Nixon fell before our corporate masters realized the power of the press still existed in 1973.You'll notice we have none of that now.
Nixon dropped tons of bombs on Cambodia without telling the Congress or the American people. He was not chased out of office for that.
I agree the death and destruction in Iraq and now Afghanistan is a sin of the highest order. To certain people in our world it's just business. They will always be able to buy their way out of trouble for that.
The only way to affect this situation is to not be part of it. All of us. Every single one of us that is not part of that ruling class. But we are divided and splintered and afraid and alone. Sadly I have no idea on how to get people to see that we have far more in common with one another than we believe.

[Count Olaf]

93. "we are divided and splintered and afraid and alone" by design

that is why, for instance, certain entities push the idea that teabaggers are just racists and have nothing to say.

The real people that started the movement were supporting Ron Paul and against Bush, it was never about Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.

I think if we looked at it, we might have things in common like being against the bailout, the military conquests, the patriot act, illegal wiretapping, the recently created Homeleand Security Dept.,NAFTA etc.

And if we united on these issues, we just might have a moment like in "A Bug's Life" where we all realize there are more of us then there are of them...

[DeSwiss]

151. Exactly. n/t

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

158. I'm not sure you and I agree

on all things based on your response, but yes, we are divided etc by design...............

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slay]

28. I say - post the truth

if it gets locked or deleted, that's not your fault. Ignore the name callers. I've posted stuff from commondreams.org and they are RIGHT to be harsh on Obama. DU needs to be harsh on Obama. We needed a 180 degree change from the way Bush did things but what we got was closer to a 2 or 3 degree change - it's fucked up and anyone on this board who can't admit that Obama is NOT a good leader is not seeing the same guy I am (we are) evidently. This can be a strange place, but it's pretty accepting if you back up your arguments with facts.

Like - Obama is NOT a progressive, which is extremely disappointing cause that's what we need. Is he better than a Republican - yes. Is he what the country needs right now? Not in my opinion. We need a strong leader with bold ideas, and Obama is just not that guy. You'll find many, many of us here who see that now. More and more every day.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

32. Thanks...

...at least there are some sane people here. I mean, I worked for and voted for the guy and will again most likely - better than a Republican - but as you say, not the bold leader we need. We need the 180...

[DeSwiss]

152. Agreed. Absolutely and completely. n/t

[flyarm]

31. Welcome beforeyoureyes !! Your Thread is 100% correct..and ignore the minority of bashers

they call everyone a troll who isn't pandering and is doing their civic duty of demanding more of our employees in our government!
After all, it is OUR GOVERNMENT. The politicans serve at OUR PLEASURE!

[Yavin4]

34. What About The Dems In Congress Who were in power TWO YEARS before Obama.

Why is it that on every fucking issue there are posters who always want to make it into a referendum on Obama and excuse other Dems?

Why is that?

[WinkyDink]

39. Perhaps you've heard of where the buck stops?

[Yavin4]

41. Last I checked, the congress gets a salary as well.

Why didn't they do their jobs? Why didn't they launch an investigation in 2007 and 2008?

Obama's critics on here are all Johnny One-Notes.

[dionysus]

71. it amazes me that these guys;

1) think they could get anything resembling public support to imprison or execute bush and cheney
2) think it wouldn't result in the TOTAL shutdown of government
3) don't realize it's political suicide of the highest order.

[liberation]

116. So we're not a nation under the rule of law

Ok, got it.

I don't think you fully grasp what you're implying though....

[Count Olaf]

73. Congress should be fired!

Why are we paying them a salary at all? They aren't doing their jobs, they are a drain on our national debt.

We need to cut their retirement. Sorry but it is all borrowed from and we can't pay it back. Should have put it in a lock box eh?

We need to cut their health care and make them pay $1500 per month, paying the first 10,000 then 50% after that.

They don't feel the heat because they haven't ever been in the kitchen.

Congress is just as, or more responsible for the mess this country is in than Bush.

There are over 400 of them, they clearly could have done more to stand up to one man.

They not only let one man make a mockery of our democracy, they stood and applauded it.

[bbgrunt]

123. k and r. great post.

[Jakes Progress]

129. So you are in favor of dumping Obama and Dems in Congress?

[Panaconda]

35. You are on

the mark with this post.

[Poboy]

36. k&r

[Ani Yun Wiya]

40. Justice on this point would be a good start.

But it does seem apparent that the current administration has some difficulty with the concept in general as well as in many matters of great signifigance to both this country and the rest of the world.

Failure to bring the previous administration to justice as regards the patently illegal wars it commenced was the first clear signal that not a damn thing would be a changin' and that "things in general" would continue apace into a wider deterioration than that which was present under the *.


I seriously suspect that there WILL be some penalty for this abject failure.

[jtrockville]

42. and justice for all

[leveymg]

43. The U.S. Gov't is a Limited Liability Corporation. There is no accountability by design.

It's called Executive Immunity from prosecution. The thinking behind this is that if every murder in government was prosecuted and hanged, nobody would be willing to run for office, and even the hangings would have to stop, as the hangman is himself paid by the state. So, nobody ever publicly investigates their predecessor, much less prosecutes them. Unless it's for a morals or sex crime.

Another institutional parallel is Absolution in the Mother Church. Go to confession, say your Hail-Mary's -- don't forget to buy your votary candles -- and your sins are wiped clean, like magic! All you have to do is believe and G-d forgives all, my son.

Now, go get elected or enlist, or convert, and go out there and start killing people for fun and profit, for King and Country. Remember: "Gott Mit Uns"! And, if you can't, just look at the belt buckle they issued you when you signed up.

[oldlib]

44. I agree.

The Bush administration took the USA into the Iraq war without justification and utilizing criminal actions. Obama's acceptance of the war is unacceptable and he too will be held accountable someday.

[Senator]

45. It Remains the ONLY Obama Legacy

It's bushcheney The Torturers and Obama as Driver of the Torture Getaway Car.

The rest is trivia. Even the actual combat.

You can't "look (away) forward" on war crimes.

---

[newtothegame]

46. Obama's historic election will look AWESOME in history books, so don't worry. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. The trouble is that a lot of Democrats were complicit in Bush's crimes.

See the IWR vote for evidence.

[alsame]

52. Yep, And the right wing was screaming that talking point

all day yesterday. "Hillary voted for the war, Biden voted for the war", etc.

[bvar22]

55. Good Point.

In fact, there is NOT a single member of the Obama Administration who voted AGAINST the IWR.
You would think that Obama would have sought out those who Got it Right
instead of populating his administration with those who Got it all WRONG.

The same holds true for his Economic Team.
They ALL genuflect before the Giant Invisible Hand.

[alsame]

61. Agreed. nt

[Count Olaf]

160. +1000

n/t

[hulka38]

164. This is an extremely important subthread imo.

The result of this was 100% predictable and it explains so much about how the party has behaved since.

[tilsammans]

49. Sadly, so true . . .

You said it so eloquently. :patriot:

[HughBeaumont]

51. This country ain't touching Bewsh OR Cheney.

The person who even attempts to spearhead such an investigation would be taking a bullet.

It would take the collective and ubiquitous effort from a team, not just 1 or 2 people. 1 or 2 people could come up missing. Lot harder to "accident" several dozen without suspicion. Sadly, we'll never find such a team because they're afraid of their power.

We'll get an alien president before we get a progressive one.

[Ganja Ninja]

53. I couldn't agree more.

Now instead of the nightly news covering the Bush cabal investigation and trial all we get is the non-stories like the ground zero mosque and whitestock. Way to control the agenda Democrats.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tnlurker]

56. k&r

That is all.

[bvar22]

57. Those who protect War Criminals...

..are committing a War Crime.

We are required to investigate possible War Crimes by several International Treaties.

[Chulanowa]

58. Which criminal administration?

Baby Bush, with his wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Clinton, with his destruction of financial regulations and shove-gays-in-the-closet measures?
Big Bush, with his peacetime massacre of Iraqi soldiers, his underhanded involvement i nth slaughter of Shia and Kurds in Iraq, and his invasion of Somalia?
Reagan, with... well, there's not enough space to talk about Reagan's crimes here.
Carter's clean, go Carter!
Ford's collusion with the crimes of Nixon?
Nixon, and everything he did?
Johnson, with his five-hundredfold escalation of Vietnam on false pretenses?
Kennedy, with his beginning involvement in Vietnam on false pretenses?

[greiner3]

62. It's a shame that so many DU'ers;

Accept a contrary position from someone who wants disruption. Think about it. Don't react, think.

[dionysus]

63. if you can't comprehend that the public has no interest in hanging bushco for treason, sorry.

would it be the right thing to do? sure.

would the public go for it? no
would it result in complete paralysis of our govt and dems tossed out of office? yes

[EFerrari]

106. Bulleria. We did fine after Watergate and we did fine after the bs Clinton impeachment.

Where do you get this stuff?

[dionysus]

117. this isn't impeaching a president. pretty sure punishment for treason

would be life inprisonment or execution.

i don't think the public has the stomach for it, honestly.

[EFerrari]

121. Aren't you jumping the gun altogether?

[dionysus]

125. i don't know, for the crimes they committed... is there a standard punishment for treason?

[earth mom]

66. Bravo-Extremely well put!

I would add that Bush & Co committed GENOCIDE-just as Hitler did.

And I would add that Obama & Congress are in VIOLATION of the Constitution by not prosecuting Bush & Co.

They won't do it because there is blood on their hands too-and they would be guilty of the same crimes themselves.

No one wants to send themselves to prison do they?



Also-Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Count Olaf]

70. whenever they get away with something, the become even more brazen

If the republicans get control again, if someone like Sarah Palin gets in there...there will be nothing stopping them from attacking syria, iran and the rest of their hit list.

[JNelson6563]

72. Ok, let's go over this again....

There will NEVER be such a prosecution for ANY President, EVER. No President will EVER set that precedent.

I marvel that there are still people hoping and wishing it would happen. Talk about an inability to deal with reality! This is unrivaled!

Julie

[Count Olaf]

75. learned helplessness is what got us in this situation

n/t

[JNelson6563]

98. lol Ok, you go ahead and keep fuming about this

Meanwhile I will get on with life. In the end we'll see who fared better, ok?

Julie--pointing and laughing at the naive among us

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

80. Yes, a lot of people don't want to "turn the page" on the rule of law.

What the hell is the matter with them!

[JNelson6563]

101. No surprise to see you here.

LOL Cling to this! Cling to it as though your life depends on it! Get on a rooftop and scream bloody murder about it!!

500 years from no President will have pushed to have any predecessor prosecuted for anything. Mark my words. But you go ahead and scream about it and try to deride those of us who have a clue about history and know it ain't gonna happen. Would it be great to see Bush & Cheney and friends behind bars? Sure it would. Will it ever happen? Is it even in the realm of remote possibility? No. No matter how much screaming and keyboard pounding ya'll partake in, THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN. Methinks you will fare better to find some other topic, which I suspect you've a long list of, to scream and cry over.

Julie

[EFerrari]

103. Speaking of history, I remember Watergate and the aftermath.

And while you try to reduce respect for the rule of law to emotionalism, you're wrong. :)

[OwnedByFerrets]

74. Yet, Washington has NO problem indicting a baseball player for

potentially lying to them. AS much as I cant stand Roger Clemens, the hypocrisy is deafening.

[Raster]

82. The hypocrisy is beyond deafening. He used steroids and lied about.

bush* and cheney* lied about everything and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people for vanity and greed.

[Count Olaf]

85. Forget politics, it's all about entertainment

Someone is driving this message. Even when Obama is interviewed on TV they asked him what he thinks about TV stars.

[matt819]

83. It is particularly galling

If a coalition of the extremists - Republicans, tea partiers, and the like - gain a majority in Congress, you know full well that their first move is to attack, attack, attack. You can expect hearings from the birthers. You know there will be efforts to overturn health care/health insurance reform. There will be investigations in to Obama's vacations and the redecoration of the White House. There will be legislation introduced to prevent the building of mosques anywhere in the US. You get the idea. And nothing, absolutely nothing will be accomplished, and we'll make a few more spirals down the drain in the process. The only way to put a stop to this nonsense and to put us back on track is to take firm action, action that clearly demonstrates who we are and who we must be as a nation.

[Raster]

87. I agree. And giving bush* a "heck-of-a-job, Brownie" is not that firm action.

[avaistheone1]

88. Proud to be the 99th poster to K&R

:kick:

[defendandprotect]

95. This is the way that the right wing rises ... violence, destruction, lies --

and by so corrupting government that it can avoid any accountability!

[Solly Mack]

100. ...

k/r

worse than the silence is the - oh well, it's just not that important but we're still just so fucking great - acceptance

[RoccoR5955]

104. I was waiting for him to roll out Dumbya, and pin a medal on his ass!

It really burns me that he didn't go after the traitors, and war criminals, but last night, he actually had the balls to call them freakin' patriots!!!!!!!!
I am getting dissatisfied with this one too. He just may end up being a better Republican president than Clinton was, talk about caving in to the opposition,
It gets me quite angry

[Count Olaf]

109. OMG

:rofl:

that would be a great saturday night live skit.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

120. The statue of Bush probably wasn't ready yet

You know, the one where he stands steely eyed in a cowboy hat, one hand pointing to the distance and the other on a machete, ready to clear brush.

Oh, God, what if that really comes to pass???

[Bluebear]

105. But the DOJ has time to take Roger Clemens to court. Heckuvajob.

[No Passaran]

110. Sure thing. Maybe in between those bombing raids of Afghani civilians

[democrank]

122. Many Democrats want to make excuses and look the other way.

I don`t. Bush and Cheney couldn`t have gotten away with their war crimes without enablers...then and now.

[russspeakeasy]

124. I am smarter than a Rice Krispy bar so I won't vote

for a republican, I am not sure I will vote...at all...yeah, I
know...but what the hell difference does it Really make?

[babsbunny]

127. and for him to call bush

then praise bush, that is it for me.

[HughMoran]

133. This time for sure?

:rofl:

[tomp]

131. Do you remember the obama/powell embrace just prior to the election?

THAT is when i knew what was coming. and how many criticized obama when he said powell could have a place in his administration any time he wanted?

i will never forgive obama for letting bush/cheney, inc off the hook. i believe he has made himself complicit in those crimes (and holder, too).

[Name removed]

138. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slay]

139. +1

it's sickening to me.

[mmonk]

140. Great cartoon.

[Senator]

155. +1

[Hekate]

141. Show of hands: How many of you think Obama is a war criminal now?

I'd love to know.

[EFerrari]

150. Isn't that baiting posters to break the rules?

[Hekate]

154. I would never do that. But you have to admit this is quite the mmm sad display.

[creon]

142. was not going to happen

Obama never had any intention of prosecuting Bush/Cheney.
There was no chance of getting an impartial jury. There was no chance of finding a venue for a trial.
There was little chance of finding a Justice Department prosecutor. There was little chance of getting a grand jury to indict.

Those are some of the legal impediments.

The political constraints were enormous.

A trial would have inflamed the country. Too many Democrats had 'guilty knowledge'

A drumhead court martial would have been less incendiary than a civil trial.

A civil proceeding would have been combustible. And, a trial jury could have nullified. Which is their right.


What would happen if the jury came back with: not guilty?

[DeSwiss]

145. K&R

Booze, rage and justice in the participation age

It is now clear to me that the people's rage is a tool in the hands of the new electronic and digital corporate state. Its various channels, eddies and pools, regardless of type, can be directed toward all sorts of mischief and profit. Left or right, the angry throngs on both sides can be managed and directed. They can be sent chasing various injustices, denouncing evil characters on Wall Street, Times Square bombers, BP executives, or whatever, worked up into slobbering outrage over Sarah Palin, and thus kept divided and working against each other for the benefit of last gasp capitalism.

~ http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/07/waltzing.html">Joe Bageant, "Blogging toward the Kingdom"

[ShamelessHussy]

147. We fought and died to make Islam the law of the land in Iraq - once a secular nation

how often do you hear that on your telly?

:shakes-head:

However, I am sure it will make it much easier to oppress the people, and exploit their resources.

[MissDeeds]

161. Your post is spot on

That any administration, let alone a Democratic administration, would permit these crimes and atrocities to go unpunished is indefensible. There is no way this can be spun to make it right, although some will try their best to do just that. I hope you will post more often and not be shouted down and silenced by a vocal few.

Sorry I am too late to add my recommendation.

[liquid diamond]

163. Where have you been? For almost two years Obama

has said he would NOT go after Bush. He has repeatedly said we will move forward. It seems like this topic will flare up every now and then like Obama's decision is something new. Yell, scream, beat your heads against a wall. Nothing is changing. Sheesh.

[Radical Activist]

165. The Justice Department investigation is ongoing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daphne-eviatar/latest-cia-interrogation_b_684845.html

[ToppleTheTeaParty]

166. Well we can put Cheney in shackles. If...

and only IF we hold onto both the House & Senate on November 2nd.

Vote!
Donate!
Organize!
Canvas!
Phone bank!

Not in that order, quite obvious of course.

Details to follow!!!

[Zhade]

167. What you said will resonate throughout history, in many variations.

And Obama's name will NOT be mentioned in a good way in connection with it.

For current political expediency, the man destroyed his future legacy.

I wonder how he sleeps at night, knowing all those orphaned children understand that this country is a joke when it comes to justice.