Is there anyone else here that doesn't give a cat's behind if Obama

[JanMichael]

is a "Christian" or not? Or when, or how often (or to whom) he prays?

I mean, who the hell cares???

[dionysus]

1. yup.

[Demeter]

2. I don't care.

If anything, he's a hypocrite. Actions speak much louder than words.

[Sanity Claws]

3. I support the Constitution

No religious tests.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Those who can profit from it politically

I had one of the usual troglodytes pull that crap,

So I asked, should there be a religious test?

Of course.

Pulled out the Constitution, pointed to the proper section, asked him to read it, and then told him, "Good luck with the Amendment process."

But is that guy that these political opportunists are talking to.

[BootinUp]

5. I don't care, but it doesn't bother me in this case either

It does bother me, when a politician uses religion to distract from the real issues.

It doesn't bother me when a politican is essentially forced to defend himself and the issue is religion. By forced, I simply mean he could suffer a serious setback to his popularity if he doesn't respond to critics, propaganda etc.

[saltpoint]

It's the man's own call, and people should support

his right of choice in making it, whether they're a follower of one of the world's religious traditions or not.

In Gore Vidal's exciting novel CREATION there is a journey of many miles through the cultures of many different people, and the wayfarer and narrator approach each one with a kind of respectful analysis.

Seems like a pretty good model to me.

[nc4bo]

6. Honestly don't care and I'm not really sure why anyone else would care either. nt

[droidamus2]

7. Personally?

I would prefer that the POTUS not be religious at all but that's just me.

[SammyWinstonJack]

44. +1

:thumbsup:

[mzteris]

8. To be honest -

I wish he wasn't. Quite frankly I think that's what is impeding clear thinking on the gay marriage issue.

That, and I would dearly love to see an non-Christian in the White House - if only to watch fundy heads explode!

[uppityperson]

9. I hold the view that anyone's religion or spirituality is personal to them.

I don't care what President Obama calls himself, what his choice is or isn't.

[proteus_lives]

10. Don't care, it's none of my business.

[riderinthestorm]

11. I dunno, it seems kinda important whether leader of the free world relies upon

an invisible sky daddy for advice and input.

I don't care what version the mythological being takes, I just think it's alarming that this is something that's mandatory for our "leaders".

Honestly, it would be more comforting knowing he DIDN'T believe in any of that and relied upon other, more factual data. Based upon Obama's circumspection, discretion and lack of overall "born again" enthusiasm for the title of "chief religious nutjob" that seems to accompany the Presidency, I'm hoping he's feigning belief in order to pander to the masses. I'm actually okay with that. An atheist/agnostic will never get elected so he's got to profess something. But his obvious lack of diligence in demonstrating religious bat shit craziness is kinda reassuring.

YMMV.

[uppityperson]

13. That is a narrow definition for christians as there are a hell of a lot who don't believe in "invisb

"invisible sky daddy". I think it's alarming that people even here on DU stereotype all people of a faith by the radicals of that faith.

[riderinthestorm]

14. Uhm, isn't belief in God and Jesus Christ a principle of being a Christian?

Or belief in God and Muhammed? Or belief in God and (no other prophet)? Etc. etc.....

How is that a "narrow" definition? You have to believe in those entities to be a believer, of which something like 90% of the US population are believers.

I don't understand your comment about "stereotyping" all people of faith "by the radicals". I'm simply stating a truism of being a believer - its not a radical concept at all.

[uppityperson]

16. Um, no. It depends on "belief in". my father is a very strong christian and

does not believe in "an invisible sky daddy for advice and input" and tries to model his life as the life of Jesus is shown. (be like vs worship). No, you do NOT have to believe in "an invisible sky daddy for advice and input" or worship Jesus as The Son of that invisible sky daddy to be a christian.

Yes, some fundies say you must "give yourself to Jesus", must have Faith and not questions,worship some interpretation of Jesus etc etc etc and that is why I say stereotyping a group by the radicals.

[riderinthestorm]

20. I'm sorry but your father is not a Christian then. If he cannot profess his allegiance to Christ

not just model his life after Christ, but acknowledge the divinity of Christ, then he actually isn't a Christian.

I try to model my life after Christ too but that doesn't make me a Christian because I don't believe in his divinity. Furthermore, I would venture to say that anyone who professes themselves to be a Christian but doesn't believe in the divinity of Christ is more likely the "radical". It's not just fundies where acceptance of Jesus Christ as lord and savior are imperative to be named a Christian.....

[uppityperson]

25. Wow. I guess his minister isn't either. Have to write those damned UCCers and tell them all that

"I would venture to say that anyone who professes themselves to be a Christian but doesn't believe in the divinity of Christ is more likely the "radical". It's not just fundies where acceptance of Jesus Christ as lord and savior are imperative to be named a Christian....."

It is funny how fundies perceive others as being the "radicals" for not believing as they do. I would venture to say you are demonstrating that narrow view again, that of "believing" is more important that "being".

[riderinthestorm]

30. My mother is a staunch Unity attendee. I am very familiar with UCC

and I'm pretty sure UCC is quite open in accepting anyone into their church regardless of belief in Christ. That they attend a UCC church doesn't make them a Christian.

I've been to many, many Unity services with my mother (and I grew up a fundie so I know the difference). Your father is a "radical" to the mainstream Christian faiths.

[uppityperson]

33. It is a shame that you believe such a narrow definition of what a christian is

You seem so set in your belief and I have no need to try to convince you that your definition is narrow.

[riderinthestorm]

36. Not mine, but the mainstream religious Christian community.

Frankly, if someone identifies as a Christian, I take them at their word. But that means the "normal" definition of 'christian" imho - someone who believes in the divinity of Christ and accepts them as their lord and savior. By your definition, I am also a Christian even though I am not a believer in any way, shape or form. I may model my behavior on Christ's but I categorically reject him as some kind of divine god.

Your father is actually an agnostic (or an atheist, imho) if he doesn't believe in god, or Christ, or any other spiritual being but simply models behavior without belief.

[uppityperson]

55. You label my father abnormal and refuse to accept his for what he says he is. Goodbye.

[Marr]

38. They don't believe in god or the divinity of Jesus? n/t

[uppityperson]

54. Do not worship me but do as I do. eom

[mike_c]

58. you seem very confused about the nature of christianity....

Whether your father believes it or not, christian dogma holds that there is an unseen but omnipotent god who lives in "heaven"-- that's established early on in Genesis and is usually interpreted to mean an "invisible sky daddy" by those of us who dispute the existence of unseen omnipotent beings-- who sent his son as a sacrifice to somehow "redeem" humankind. Your father (and his minister) is free to believe whatever he wants, and to call himself anything he likes, but I think most christians would have trouble identifying with a version of their madness that doesn't include god and heaven.

[uppityperson]

63. Isn't it nice to know there are christians who are not mad?

Isn't it nice to know there are christians who do not feel they must worship Jesus but instead emulate him?

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Correction it is not 90%

of people in this country, but that is for starters.

How you carry out your faith (I lost my religion a while ago) at times requires you give yourself to that sky daddy, mommy or great spirit. But most religions actually require you live a moral life, not consult with that magical being.

Jeesus age... are people this damn ignorant?

And yes there are FUNDIES on all faiths (and among non believers) but that is another matter.

Oh and the lower attendance at churches et al is worrisome to some religious leaders by the way. That and the higher percentage of people who have indeed lost their religion, as it were.

[uppityperson]

27. sometimes I am taken aback here

don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. People are running with all kinds of ideas

but if they bothered to watch things like Religiously, he gave the stats there. I was pleasantly surprised.

Perhaps having been around many good Catholics, good Christians and good animistic religious people...

[riderinthestorm]

29. Can you post a link that disputes that 10% +/- of the US population

are atheists/agnostics? I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure the acknowledged #'s of "out" atheists/agnostics in the US is somewhere in the region of 10%. Please post a link if I'm wrong.

And I'd stipulate that if you call yourself a Christian, that means you acknowledge the divinity of Jesus Christ. Not just works but actual verbiage designating Jesus as your Lord and savior. That's pretty standard stuff - "most" Christian religions actually require the acknowledgment via baptism, catechism, born again proclamation, etc. etc. to be in the "club". I don't know of any that simply state you have to simply do "good works", and not believe in Christ, to be labeled a Christian (maybe Unitarians? never been there so I don't have a reference point. I know they are pretty open about their membership).

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. here you go

This chapter provides a demographic and social prole o three distinct groups: sel-identied Atheists, sel-identied Agnostics, and those who answered “none” to a survey question, “What is your religion, i any? ” The rst two groups are quite small, together amounting to about 1 percent o the U.S. adult population. The third group, called the no-religion group, is about 13 percent o the populationThis chapter provides a demographic and social prole o three distinct groups: sel-identied Atheists, sel-identied Agnostics, and those who answered “none” to a survey question, “What is your religion, i any? ” The rst two groups are quite small, together amounting to about 1 percent o the U.S. adult population. The third group, called the no-religion group, is about 13 percent o the population

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17374733/Who-Are-Americas-Atheists-and-Agnostics

There are more modern sources by the way.

But here is what is going on... I lost my religion... I just DO NOT go to a temple... but when I am asked about it I am nominally Jewish... and yes I am very much aware of the 10 principles of Judaism.

What you are missing are the people who keep withing a social group without a belief in something else beyond the nominal identification of well I am Jewish. Why? If, or rather a matter of when... it don't matter what I think I am... fanatics will tell me what I am and kill me for it. So for self preservation I do keep one foot in. When was the last time I went to a damn temple? Over three years ago. And that was after an aunt of mine died. You kind of do those things for your father, who also lost his religion during WW II.

[riderinthestorm]

34. 10%, 13% - both of those are within the statistical norms of +/- 3%

So I wasn't speaking out of my ass with my comments.

And I don't give a shit about those who aren't honest in their descriptors to pollsters. I can only go on what is reported, all anecdotes aside.

FWIW, my grandfather emigrated from Jamaica and transformed himself on the boat from a "jewish mulatto" to a "white Protestant". I am a true mutt and revel in historicity. Obama could transform the nation's obsession over designations by going beyond his tepid embrace of his bi-racialism, and actually speak about being religiously neutral - a far greater service to America's ridiculous religious litmus tests than his position (or lack thereof) over the Islamic cultural center in Manhattan.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Why we prefer to be ruide

you might want to Watch Religiously that goes higher, but whatever.

Rude you are. And also you have no fucking clue about history...

Oh and his litmus test is not about religion but the Establishment Clause. I'd rather see a President stand on the side of religious freedom (which includes freedom from religion by the way) but that is just me. It is just one of the core founding principles of the country, but I guess it is not that important to you, and that is ok.

What did I say about fanatics? There you have it.

[riderinthestorm]

37. Rude?

Can you point out how you think I'm being rude? I shared a similarly personal story with you reciprocating your own personal tale. Talk about rude! You are the one who isn't giving a damn about anything I may share.

And you don't know a thing about what I do or do not know about history....

I have NEVER disputed that the mosque has the right to be built, or that ANYONE should stand in it's way. EVER. Please show me one single post that indicates that.

And if I'm fanatic about trying to stem the flood of religious craziness infiltrating every aspect of US society from the military to the latest Terry Schiavo case, then call me fanatic.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Re-read what you wrote about

great father in the sky... then perhaps it might sink in.

As to the current age, I am sure historians will refer to it as the Third Great Revival...

Good bye.

I think we are done.

[Time for change]

67. I agree

Christian: A person who adheres to Christianity... a monotheistic religion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian

I think it's pretty hard to argue that you can be a Christian without adhering to Christianity or that Christianity isn't a monotheistic religion, or that monotheism doesn't imply a belief in God.

If someone who doesn't believe in God wants to consider himself a Christian, that's their business, but I find it confusing. And if a politician professes to be a Christian without a belief in God.... good luck in the next election :rofl:


But back to the original question: Whether or not Obama is a Christian holds virtually no interest for me. I would give a lot of points to any politician seeking high political office who had the guts to admit that s/he was NOT a Christian.

[LanternWaste]

53. Or any other imaginary construct which exists no where but out own imaginations...

"an invisible sky daddy for advice and input...."

...Or any other imaginary construct which exists no where but out own imaginations; i.e, ethics, philosophy, politics, economics, et. al.

"Invisible sky day." vs. "wholly imaginary man-made constructs." Six of one, half a dozen of the other.



But then again, I imagine many people believe that the wholly imaginary constructs they base their own lives on are much more valid than the imaginary constructs others base their lives on. Seems to me, that's where many of our problems begins. :shrug:

ed: sp

[John Q. Citizen]

12. I appreciate that Obama mentioned non-believers on the same level as the

"faithful" in his inauguration speech. That was new and refreshing.

[The Wielding Truth]

15. Hey,as long as he doesn't lie and deceive for money and power

I'm okay with whatever his creed, religious or not.

[Iterate]

17. Very uneasy.

I'll not sleep better knowing that, true or not, some adviser thought it necessary to mention.

[quinnox]

18. No, but it is amusing to see the

die-hard Obama defenders get all outraged over the questioning of this as if Obama has never told a lie or would be incapable of deception in pursuit of his political goals.

I repeat, politicians are mostly scumbags, liars, and con artists, it never pays to put them up on a pedestal or worship them.

[emilyg]

23. I like you.

:yourock:

[quinnox]

28. lol

I like you too. heh

[SammyWinstonJack]

45. Agree!

[LWolf]

21. I only care if he brings it to work. nt

[MadMaddie]

22. Those that want destroy this country that's who

The right wing hate the Constitution.....this we know.

[Scottybeamer70]

24. So many religions......

and so many variations of each religion, that I don't know how in hell they keep it
all straight as to what they should or should not believe.
I frankly couldn't care less about what or what not is his religion.

[Steely_Dan]

26. As an agnostic...

I don't give a damn if he is Christian or not.

-P

[Sapphocrat]

39. I wish he wasn't.

Then he wouldn't have his "faith" to hide behind when it comes to denying equality for all Americans.

I'll go a step further: I wish he were a Muslim -- and I wish he'd take lessons from Keith Ellison.

[eridani]

40. He's definitely not a Muslin

Could be a Satinist or a Linenist though.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheKentuckian]

43. I don't care what he practices and believes or if he does but it isn't right to make him something

he isn't as a fearmongering tool.

[uncommon]

46. I don't care at all. In fact, I think this requirement we have socially that a POTUS be a Christian

makes liars of many of them before they ever take the oath of office, and we should be ashamed of that.

[ceile]

47. couldn't care less.....

[Hell Hath No Fury]

48. Couldn't care less what he is --

so long as he didn't try to push it on the rest of us.

[stuntcat]

49. the only care I have is that I'd rather him be an atheist :)

I blame religion for all the most f'ed up stuff in the world now, especially the Actual Fycking Of The World. Look at the people arguing over it, LOOK at them :banghead: I am so ashamed of my species.

k and r :))))

[Dogtown]

50. I'd rather not know.

It shouldn't be an issue.

[MJW]

51. if I could care less about redligion

I would

[GeorgeGist]

52. As I recall ...

Hitler was a Christian.

[JNelson6563]

56. It is lunacy.

This country gets hysterical over the most ridiculous things.

[mike_c]

57. bingo!

There are very few things I could care less about, frankly.

[DirkGently]

59. Amen.

[VMI Dem]

60. Gay people probably care. I mean, its the root of his stance on their civil rights.

[LostinVA]

70. That is a good point

[Uzybone]

61. I don't, but billions of people care

not sure why they care, but its important to them.

[mike r]

62. Couldn't care less if he worships a doorknob

or whatever.

[Caliman73]

64. I certainly do not.

It is all about his behavior as the President for me. What he does on his own time, as long as it is legal and ethical, is his business.

Even though I have practiced the faith tradition I was raised in off and on throughout my life, I actually get more worried when someone feels they have to wear their religion on their sleeve.

I don't try to be a good person because of my faith although I have incorporated some of the precepts. I try to do good because I want to promote good for others.

[david13]

65. Hey hey. Let us watch our expressions here. There are some

creatures here who might take offense at some of these expressions, ok?
I already posted, I would be happier if he was a muslim. He would then have better relations with the arab world. Which we need now more than ever.
But he is what he says he is. Not, n o t what someone else says he is.
dc

[ThoughtCriminal]

66. Why worry about an un-hinged 20%?

They have always been kooks and always will. It's like wondering why the KKK is so racist and what we can do to reason with them.

Point of attack is a political party and media pundits that pander to these wacky nut-jobs like it was a legitimate point of view. Keep pointing out to them how humiliating it must be to have to associate with flat-Earthers as their "base".

[WillyT]

68. Since The Entire Human Race Is Being Dragged Down/Held Back By The Stupid And The Superstitious...

I suppose I should care... but not in the way that that message was intended to be received...

I would love for it NOT to matter...

As spelled out in our Constitution and court case after court case...

But like I said... we are being Dragged Down/Held Back By The Stupid And The Superstitious!

So I guess I gotta pay attention

:shrug:

[LostinVA]

69. I wouldn't care if he WAS a Muslim

[jesus_of_suburbia]

71. I care. I'd prefer him be atheist/agnostic.

.... but if he is Christian (which is what he said), I'm fine with that. I know many good Christians.

[JJ Walker]

72. Don't care

Only care about policies. On this front he is atrocious.

[Ramulux]

73. I do

A persons spiritual beliefs often influence their perspective on the world around them so why would I not be interested in what kind of beliefs the president has.