I am very happy to see that a convoy of armed troops left Iraq today. No, actually, I'm thrilled.

[Stinky The Clown]

But can we PLEASE not kid ourselves? There remain 50,000 American troops there. And each and every one of them is trained to aim a rifle, pull a trigger, and kill another person. By definition, a member of a military is a "combat personnel". They may be assigned other duties. But they are, indeed, trained to operate in combat.

Again, I have praise for the president for doing this. I think it is a good thing. But let's do a reality check. Every military person in Iraq was issued a weapon, knows how to use it, and *will* use it if so ordered.

[monmouth]

1. My son (USMC) was stationed in Okinawa many years after WW2

was over and there are 50K troops in Germany today. It's just the way we roll....

[JonLP24]

3. You got to understand that is very different

(I'm not sure where Okinawa is so I won't comment about Okinawa)

Everyone, and I mean everyone, I ever knew that was stationed in Germany had a blast. Iraq is a different story but we had fun at times but overall it was very, very miserable.

[LostinVA]

6. Okinawa is the southernmost island of Japan

[JonLP24]

9. Thank you

I thought so. I also thought it might be Korea but I'm much more familiar with the bases at Korea than Japan.

[LostinVA]

14. No problem

[monmouth]

7. Okinawa is a huge US military base in Japan.....n/t

[cliffordu]

2. Just incapable

of not pissing on every single piece of news that comes along, aren't ya??.

I'm sorry that you don't know the difference between those who are combat troops and those that are not.

Pity, really.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[Stinky The Clown]

13. WHOA!

Don't go there, Cliffie. Don't EVEN fucking go there.

[cliffordu]

15. Why??

You are the one pissing, I just want to know who the players are.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[cliffordu]

27. I don't know what point you're trying to make.

Maybe if you try LEAVING THE CAPS OFF and clarifying WTF your issue is with me.

I just stated that Stinky didn't know what the fuck he was talking about in terms of combat units and those that are not.

Anyone can die in the war zone, which is why everyone in country when I was in the SE asian war games got combat pay......

That wasn't my point at all.

You didn't have to post a photo of YOURSELF, just one with enough information to show us that you're not another Chairborne Ranger.

But I don't think that's forthcoming.

Couple of million people who live in Hawaii have IP addresses over there. It proves nothing.

[Stinky The Clown]

31. Cliffie, don't drag my ass into your shitstorm, apllie. I want no fucking part of it.

[cliffordu]

34. Then stay out.

Post bullshit and here you are.

Just because you don't know the difference between combat brigades and those that are not isn't my fault.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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[cliffordu]

45. Have they received different orders??

HAS THEIR FUCKING MISSION CHANGED?

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

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[Stinky The Clown]

41. We're not talking about "combat brigades". We're talking about "combat troops"

I was an SK2. But I had to qualify on a target range. Aboard ship I had a "combat" station. I was a "warfighter" (today's term, not used back then). The only non combat "troops" I knew of were medics and corpsmen.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[Barack2theFuture]

40. one can really like alternative and progressive rock

but still be totally IGNORANT about the aesthetic contribution of TOOL to the genre.

[cliffordu]

47. Very slick. I like Tool, too.

:rofl:

[bigwillq]

18. Hello

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Truth = Pissing?

Interesting point of view, there, cliffie.

[cliffordu]

11. Your take on the truth is pissing.

Your insistence on finding the dark cloud in every single silver lining is pissing.

I kinda feel for ya.

Not really.

:hurts:

[Stinky The Clown]

19. cliffie, what I'm not is one who takes it at face value.

The last time I took shit like this at face value, I joined the Navy. Same time you served, I bet. Maybe ten years earlier. Doesn't matter. I won't do that, or support anything like that, again.

[dionysus]

60. "cliffie" has pwned you so hard on this thread i am laughing my ass off.

[cliffordu]

63. I really fucking did, didn't I?

:rofl:

[dionysus]

65. well, yeah.

;)

[Stinky The Clown]

78. Yeah, you really fucking did.

You were fighting a FUCKING CLOWN armed with a balloon tank. You REALLY need to crow about this one, cliffie. Itsa biggie.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

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[Stinky The Clown]

86. cliffie .....

.... don't laugh too hard. After that rage, you could get an aneurysm.

[Stinky The Clown]

67. Since its you saying that . . . . . .

. . . . .

[dionysus]

68. oh my, you've cut me to the quick!

[Stinky The Clown]

75. Yanno, its funny ......

.... ya win some and ya lose some.

I have no illusion that any of this means a damned thing. Its entertainment, a verbal game of whack-a-mole. I stand alone and get overrun with people wanting to make their internet bones at my expense. Ya take that many chances and you're bound to lose a few.

But here's the thing. I'm laughing too. Someone however, was beside himself with rage. And that's a shame. So you see, I disagree with your scoring, but hey, its a subjective thing, so if you see it differently, oh well.

We still pals, di?

:hi:

[NanceGreggs]

88. WTF???

"I stand alone and get overrun with people wanting to make their internet bones at my expense."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Stinky The Clown]

92. At least I have no pretense its serious

or that what I write matters.

I'm a clown, and I proudly admit it.

By the way, how'd you get the call?

[NanceGreggs]

106. How'd I get the call?

Meaning how did I know about this thread?

Easy - it was the topic of conversation over to the Young Bucks Who Want to Make Their Internetz Bones website.

Where else?

[Stinky The Clown]

107. What're you doing with the young bucks?

You hang there a lot, do you?

[NanceGreggs]

108. Snark, like spice ...

... should be used sparingly enough so as not to overwhelm the intent of the dish, and with enough imagination to surprise the pallet.

Every professional chef knows this.

You, sir, are an amateur.

[Stinky The Clown]

109. And you, dear, have been gotten to

Lift a skin flap. The bug will drop out. Then you'll feel better.

Then you're free to simply sleep it off. When you wake, all will again be well.

Yes, indeed, a mere amateur, I am, if that fits your simple little narrative. I'm happily acquiescent in your narrative. That narrative, I hope, helps you through the night.

The young bucks bar. Was that the inspiration for the famous scene in Star Wars? Do they prefer to wear the uniform that eschews shoes for *those* shoes?

[NanceGreggs]

110. Oh, I prithee tell ...

... what well-worn talking point, what cliche-ridden jibe, is left - scorned and unused - in your quiver of childish nonsense?

You should be well familiar with the Young Bucks Bar. It's where hopeful young upstarts discuss the importance of earning their internetz bones by taking on formidable opponents - or those claiming to be such.

[Stinky The Clown]

111. Sleep tight nance

[NanceGreggs]

112. You, too ...

And don't let those anxious to make their internetz bones get to ya.

[dionysus]

101. of course. i think what many people miss is that DU is an entertaiment vehicle. if anyone walks away

from a thread *truly* angry, i think they're taking it all waaaay too seriously.

:hi:

[DevonRex]

71. I am, too.

And I don't have much of one to laugh off, either, dammit.

[cliffordu]

72. Yeah, but we heard that it's most attractive

in it's diminutive stature......

[DevonRex]

73. *snort*

:rofl:

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[cliffordu]

42. I'm watched the last of the combat brigades drive

across the border just a little while ago.

The combat operations two days ago were two days ago. Right?

More American soldiers will die IN COMBAT in iraq. This is true and completely unacceptable but does not change the fact that there is a difference in tactics between active combat brigades and their work and the soldiers now in Iraq, and their operational parameters.

Again, what Stinky posted is patently false.....

[Name removed]

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[dionysus]

69. this thread is a gas!

:rofl:

[tallahasseedem]

22. Amazing isn't it?

Cheers! :toast:

[cliffordu]

28. Youp, amazing is the word....

:patriot:

[LostinVA]

8. Lots of US soldiers were killed in Germany after the war was "over"

[Barack2theFuture]

12. According to whitehouse.gov (if they haven't scrubbed the embarassingly clear language),

The remaining troops will have three missions. "Our forces will have three tasks: train, equip, and advise the Iraqi Security Forces; conduct targeted counterterrorism operations; and provide force protection for military and civilian personnel." Maybe it's just me, but "targeted counter-terrorist operations" sounds an awful lot like combat. Shooting back when "insurgents" fire on a convoy sounds like "combat."

[LostinVA]

16. Just like fucking Vietnam

[Barack2theFuture]

26. except there are almost no journalists,

and the play-by-play announcers are all "embedded."

[SeattleGirl]

30. Hmmm, so you just want them to stand still and get shot at?

[JonLP24]

39. Why even ask that?

That wasn't the posters point at all from reading it. He was questioning the meaning of combat and I believe he asks good questions. Counter-terrorism operations do sound like combat operations to me. Also when insurgents do fire on convoys you know who fires back? Gun trucks. The people driving the trucks stay in there trucks because they have very thick armor. The TCNs is another story--no armored vehicles. The gun truck units were always different units from the transportation unit and they were usually infantrymen driving the gun trucks. Then again I didn't ask the MOS of every gun truck unit we encountered but their units were always on the manifest and usually said infantry right on there. We often ran with the same gun truck units as well. However I don't doubt at all other MOS units provided convoy security for us.

[Murray_R]

83. No, I think most of us want them out

not in Iraq getting shot at, mortared, and targeted with IEDs.

[Barack2theFuture]

105. What?

I want the propaganda machine to tell the truth about remaining troops.

[bvar22]

74. WTF?

That is the SAME, exact MISSION that they had under Bush the Lesser since 2005.

1)Eliminate Al Qaeda (Terrorists).

2)Train Iraqi Military

3)Protect American Military & Civilian (Corporate) Interests

Maybe they just haven't changes the "Mission Statement" yet?

[DevonRex]

17. Spoken like a man who was never in the Army. I was a woman in the Army

so I can say that with certainty.

Sure, any bozo can use a weapon. But "operate in combat?" Don't make me laugh. Really.

[cliffordu]

21. Thank you.

I NEVER wanted the fucking clerks or the cooks in my unit on guard duty backing us up.

Nice people, good at their jobs, but really, they were NOT generally expert shots or asshole enough for the gig.

Gimme a fucking 11 bravo every time.

[DevonRex]

55. I have this vision of the Army dentist low crawling with an M240 strapped

to his back. :rofl: Or the unit barber. :rofl: :rofl:

[cliffordu]

57. WEll...

:rofl:

[dionysus]

23. were you in Charles' Regiment? I heard many stories about those days.

Wadsworth is quite the storyteller you know!
:hi:

[DevonRex]

54. I hope he didn't tell too many tales out of school. Some of them can

be quite embarrassing, you know. :hi:

[Stinky The Clown]

24. You're right. I was never in the Army.

I was in the Navy.

Honorable Discharge.

DD214 intact.

[DevonRex]

58. That explains it. My dad was a Marine Corps fighter pilot.

We are destined not to get along. Plus, unless you were a SEAL, you don't know much about what soldiers and Marines do.

:rofl:

[LostinVA]

25. But they are still soldiers in a hostile zone

I am rather shocked you posted that, to be honest. Many so-called "non-combat" troops have had to fight for their lives, were put in POW camps, and killed. Including nurses. I KNOW you know that is disrespectful. My BIL is a combat vet, a disabled vet, and he very much disagrees with what you said. I just called him and asked.

And, none of the following were combat troops:


SPC Shoshanna Johnson
SPC Edgar Hernandez
SPC Joseph Hudson
PFC Patrick Miller
SGT James Riley
PFC Jessica Lynch

And

SPC Lori Ann Piestewa

[jonnyblitz]

32. don't you get it? they are no longer CALLED combat troops

so there will be NO combat. the Iraqi insurgents were sent a memo so they won't be shooting at our NONCOMBAT troops! STOP RUINING TEH CELEBRATION!!111

[bvar22]

62. And some people say Obama doesn't have a Magic Wand.

***POOF***
50,000 Combat Troops changed into 50,000 NON-Combat Troops.

Now THATS a Magic Wand.

[cliffordu]

64. In reality it's about the mission given to whatever

unit they want to. I'll bet their orders are completely different than they were a week ago.

[Stinky The Clown]

93. And *that*, cliffie dear, is the POINT

Same people. Just changed orders.

Now, let's talk about that, shall we? The 50,000 that are there are combat troops with non combat orders. That's a good thing. But as the OP said, they are still troops capable of .... get ready for it ....... combat. They are combat troops.

And that's really all the OP said. But you had to get your panties all in a wad over your assumption of what I meant.

Not what I said.

Your interpretation of what I said.

And after all your histrionics in this thread, what became clear was you're predisposition to judge that whatever I say has to be anti Obama and then to race off in that direction. And in the process you got yourself all enraged (you can admit it openly, you clearly were) and acted ...... well, as the remains of this thread indicate, less than gentlemanly with a number of people.

And yet, here we are, cliffie, back at square one.

[dflprincess]

103. See post #12

we can hope the website hasn't been updated - otherwise the "new" mission sounds a lot like the old one.

[LostinVA]

95. People are acting like cooks an quartermasters are the only ones left

Sealed in some kind of sterile, Disneyland environment. This disconnected is mindblowing to me, as is the comparison to our current bases in Germany and Japan.

50K troops are alot.

[JonLP24]

96. +1

Like I said in another thread--whenever we leave transportation units as well as those units that do gun trucks and EOD units will be among the last ones to leave because the long haul units will have to pick up the last of the stuff and drop them off in a shipping yard or airport in Kuwait. All those units are among the most likely to be attacked because of how often IEDs are used as well as EFPs. I won't say they face the same dangers as front line units like infantry but driving down bomb filled roads is dangerous.

On edit-Yeah statements like "50K same as what we have in Germany" make my head spin.

[LostinVA]

97. I keep bringing up Jessica Lynch, but I'll do it again

A bunch of REMF maintenance and quartermaster soldiers, attacked, forced into combat, some killed, some horribly injured, and some taken as POWs. Non-combat support troops my ass.

[JonLP24]

98. Yep

I'll also point out the quartermaster soldiers in my unit where sent out on convoys though not as often as 88M whose job is to drive trucks. We also have someone from maintenance (which was a platoon of soldiers within a transportation unit) on every single mission in-case something happens. In fact the only person that died in my unit was the primary armorer--as you might know the person that issues, takes in, inventories all the units weapons. He directly replaced the secondary armorer that came back from the mission. He also did another tour as another MOS which one person called "a real job" where he did patrols all the time and made it through.

The 92G(cooks) in my unit all supervised TCNs at DFACs in Kuwait which is what I did when I broke my hand 8 months in and never left Kuwait or Camp Arifjan for that matter(unless to go on leave or a pass to Qatar) except for one. There was one convoy that was short on drivers so they trained him up real quick and got a Military drivers license for him and on his one and only mission his engine was hit by an EFP(which is the same type of device that killed my friend as I mentioned above). He got a combat action badge which is something I didn't get because my truck was never hit driving over 17,000 miles.

This is why I won't be happy til all are out of Iraq or Afghanistan for that matter.

[Statistical]

100. Exactly they were non-combat support.

Had they been hardened combat troops the outcome likely would have been different.
One soldier in that unit testified his weapon jammed on first shot. He never fired another shot at the enemy until capture.

Every job in the military is important but to pretend everyone in the Army is created/trained/equipped equal when it comes to "laying souls to rest" is lunacy.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[Barack2theFuture]

35. are you claiming that only cooks and clerks remain?

Now *THAT'S* a lie.

[Stinky The Clown]

36. Cliffie, if you insist on mentioning me, talk TO me. Not ABOUT me.

If you wish not to talk to me, kindly refrain from mentioning me.

And its StinkY, not StinkO.

Got it?

[cliffordu]

43. Ah, yes, the name game. I'll stop when you do.

:hi:

You really have no room to snivel.

[Stinky The Clown]

56. :chuckle:

How adult of you.

[grantcart]

91. making us laugh is all they have left.

[Warren Stupidity]

94. The remaining divisions are combat units relabeled as non combat

with a mission that obviously includes combat.

[Statistical]

99. +1. Exactly while they may be in the Army they lack training, equipment, and zeal of combat troops.

99% of soldier that aren't in a "combat ARMS MOS" fire their weapon maybe twice a year. A couple hours at the range every six months doesn't make a hardened combat troop.

[DevonRex]

102. Hell, the last 2 years I was in, I was "too valuable" to leave the vault

to go to the range. I had an expert badge and that's all they cared about.

[Steely_Dan]

44. I'm Happy To See This Too

I am a regular critic of the President...But I will praise his administration anytime they move towards ending the wars. Nice job!

-P

[seabeyond]

48. it is a step. and it is a step that closer to get the same in afghanistan. nt

[bigtree]

50. I'd be concerned if any contingent wasn't equipped for combat of some sort

But, I think you've overstated their offensive role there. Still dangerous and threatening, but you can't responsibly draw down without watching your forces' backs as they exit. We'll still have a diplomatic presence there, so I'm not sure why some folks assume Iraq could do without embassy protection that other U.S. friendly countries enjoy. It should also be realized that there won't be 50,000 troops engaged in continuing, offensive military operations there - just a fraction will be engaged in assisting Iraqi forces in advisory roles and logistics.

[Stinky The Clown]

51. What's overstated, is everyone's interpretation of what I said in the OP

It is wrong to say that uniformed military are not "combat troops". As I said upthread, I was an SK2. My job was ordering baloney and fresh fruit for the cooks and paper clips for the yeomen. But I was also trained to fire a weapon and I had a "combat station" on the ships I was on.

You would not want me next to you in foxhole, but I was, indeed, a "combat troop". Were I not, I would have been a civilian.

Please reread my OP, but without personal filtering or assuming meaning.

[bigtree]

53. ok

[cliffordu]

52. Excellent post, bigtree, and one I wish I had made....

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

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[cliffordu]

61. Well.....

:rofl:

:bounce:

[Cha]

76. Thanks bigtree. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

77. Hahahahaha

We gunna break out in a chorus of Auld Lang Syne?

:chuckle:

[Individualist]

66. K&R. 50,000 troops remain and how many mercenaries?

The talking heads aren't mentioning that little detail.

[cliffordu]

70. Actually they did - but I wasn't paying attention.

IIRC, Iraq is paying them now.

IF it takes them hiring a million mercs to get our troops out, fine with me.

[Phillip Walker]

80. Occupation

It's ongoing.

[readmoreoften]

85. Yes it is. This people can kid themselves all they want. Hang around an Army base.

You'll see what's going on.

[LWolf]

81. I'm glad. Are they coming home, or goint to Afghanistan?

Or coming home for a leave, and then being re-deployed?

I'm glad, even though it's 7 years late. I'll be even happier when they're all home.

I'll be thrilled when we aren't at war anywhere.

[cliffordu]

82. I sure the fuck hope they are all just coming home.

I am tired of the wars.

[LWolf]

87. More than tired.

I am ready to welcome them all home with open arms. I just want them to be DONE with war.

[JonLP24]

84. +1

but I want to point out "dwell time" at least when it comes to the Army which I'm familiar with. Dwell time is, if you serve 1 year, you get 1 year off of deployment. You could very well be transfered to a unit that is deploying much sooner than your previous unit that is within your dwell time. In those cases you sign something that basically allows you to deploy. You may even be pressured to sign from leadership but you can't go unless you sign that form. Many actually did in my unit while I was thinking, "there is no way I would sign that." I don't know if the rules have changed since July 2008 but that is the way it was when I was in.

Though I agree with everything else. I will be thrilled when we aren't at war anywhere.

On edit-Wow--dwell time increased. Soldiers in the Army now get 15-months for 12-month tours. It is planned to increase to 30 MONTHS in 2011. Wow. That is a VERY good thing.

[johnaries]

89. I was in the Army Band. Yes, we were trained to fire a weapon.

Because our standing orders were that if our barracks were attacked, we had to fight them off. After BCT the only time I touched a weapon was once a year at the firing range to re-qualify.

There's your reality check.

[laughingliberal]

90. K & R nt

[JuniperLea]

104. I got yer reality check right here, oh odiferous one...

The rest will be out by the end of next year... and I believe this to be true. He told the truth about the combat troops leaving before the end of this month, and I believe he is telling the truth now.