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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:37 PM
Original message
by what rationale are the remaining troops not 'combat' troops?
They are units that were most definitely "combat" troops until today at about 6:30 Eastern Time. Some of them are among the most decorated units in the military and have suffered the most casualties of any units involved in the Iraq debacle.

Do they still have guns and hummers and shit?
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Their orders have changed
n/t
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. how?
According to the White House's statement their mission still includes "disrupting al Qaeda," which is identical to the mission (as stated by the White House) in Afghanistan.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Your answer is in your reply
n/t
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. so there is no combat in Afghanistan?
Edited on Wed Aug-18-10 07:59 PM by Barack2theFuture
whitehouse.gov says, "Our forces will have three tasks: train, equip, and advise the Iraqi Security Forces; conduct targeted counterterrorism operations; and provide force protection for military and civilian personnel."

Aren't "targetted counterterrorism operations" exactly what they've supposedly been doing all along to the tune of a trillion bucks or so? Or was that just more semantics?
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Sigh
Okay. You win. Enjoy your victory.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. Training, MOS and orders
Edited on Wed Aug-18-10 07:39 PM by nadinbrzezinski
On edit, they will STILL get hazard pay.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. thank you for your service,
Edited on Wed Aug-18-10 07:53 PM by Barack2theFuture
I also feel we are being lied to.


and welcome.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Ok so tell me why are they lying to us?
and have their orders changed or not?

You probably know this but some SEALS are still in country... to SUPPORT Iraqi forces... so this is not surprising

Take care of your back.

And why are they lying? Please explain...

ANd I hate to break this to you, but we also have troops in Germany who are combat formations, but they are not in the streets kicking but or taking names, are they?

This is what a CHANGE IN ORDERS means.
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Surfsidesoldier Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. You said the last STRYKER
brigade had left.........I can link to it if you want.

I can't begin to say why the lying is happening, I'm just a dumb grunt. But my friends that I chat with all the time, tell me they are still going on combat patrols in Diyala province. And 2 of the last three killed were INFANTRYMEN killed while on Patrol. So if Combat Operations have ceased, why are combat patrols still ongoing? LMAO, my friends are in the streets of Diyala province kicking doors down and engaging hostile forces. Weird how MSNBC is ignoring the recent spike in COMBAT deaths. Do I have an axe to grind? Your damn right I do, I have three previous Iraq tours under my belt, this was to be my fourth and it galls me to see the public lap up this crap that no COMBAT UNITS remain. In fact, here in Hawaii, another brigade of the 25th the 3rd Brigade is going in the fall. The third is a standard INFANTRY Brigade, not a SUPPORT Unit
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. You know how operations go
I don't have to explain this to you on how orders change and your mission does in less than 10 minutes. Or perhaps I do.

Patrols were GOING TO GO ON until this happened... that is the big picture. If they did not, it would tell people hey... them murikans are up to something!

And no you are not a dumb grunt, but you KNOW this. And your friend, for OPSEC reasons did not know about this either I am willing to bet.

Now I get your anger. But now orders WILL have to change.

The CHALLENGE will be to keep the very low attention of Americans on Iraq... war's over, so people will forget this in a week... tops! SO that will be the challenge. And I hate to break this, because I hate to say it, but just because the last striker just crossed a border, don't mean nobody is gonna get killed no more. IN fact... I expect higher casualty rates in the coming three months, but that's just me.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #37
47. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. They will... in fact in the next three weeks
Edited on Wed Aug-18-10 08:21 PM by nadinbrzezinski
the risk is higher as we will see a lot of needling at US forces still in country.

But whatever. I get your anger. But I guess I also get the big picture.

The other big picture is that mostly the patrols should be over...

I feel for you and your friends, and fear Americans will now fully forget this little magnificent war, as a certain, very cynical WW I poet once put it.

It is not if but when the next trooper dies. That is the truth... Again I get the big picture.

But OFFICIALLY as of tonight, combat operations are over... and THIS IS an important milestone. I guess you anger is preventing you from seeing it.


Oh and we have a date for those 50K to LEAVE Iraq too.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Well I cannot help you if you don't get the big picture
that is the big picture. And in the big picture today is a good day. In the small picture for those staying it is not. But big picture it is...

You are locking at the tactical level, alas I'm looking at this strategically. And you know there is a difference.

As to the SOFA, the Iraqis already tried... and they were rebuffed in no uncertain terms. And like the sun comes up in the East I can count on them trying a few times more. So you and I have to hope that the momentum is such that come 2011 the rest of the troops will simply LEAVE.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Take that with MSNBC and the WH
as well as DOD.

Knowing exactly what units are in theater, as a civilian, and due to OPSEC is well above my pay grade.

So I will have to take your word on it.

But take that with the WH and the DOD.

And you are still dodging the strategic vision of this.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Deleted message
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. And I already told you... MORE TROOPS are going to die
in the next three to five weeks, as the tempo will only GO UP.

Again, if they are lying, take it with the WH, your CO... your Chaplain.

This IS news, I am sorry it don't include YOUR BUDDIES.

Like it or not, we have had a change in mission. I am sorry for your buddies, but again TAKE IT WITH YOUR CHAIN FOR LYING to the American people. That is what you are saying and you are still unable to answer why?

Could it be they are NOT?

By the way... last time I checked today is Wednesday... not Sunday...

Oh and i am not diminishing the sacrifice or the losses. Just asking you WHY? You can't answer that.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. Perhaps you should go here to express your displeasure
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. I'm just trying to help you out
That site has over 5 million views. Looks to me like a great venue for spreading your message.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. It is the role they are ordered to play.
Training, support, logistics, engineering...everything short of actual combat.
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. assuming 'al Qaeda' don't resist being 'disrupted'
doesn't it seem like little more than semantics to you?
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. No. They will not actively seek to engage them in combat.
If attacked, troops will defend themselves; they are not going to just sit there and let themselves become targets, but they are no longer the tip of the spear.

That role is now up to the Iraqis.
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. so 'combat' only includes offensive operations?
yeah, right.
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Security for Brittany Spears when she visits the troops?
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. I thought that's what all those mercenaries were for.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. because they will only be fighting "terrorists". I guess that's not combat.
Odd; you're just as dead if a "terrorist" or "insurgent" kills you as if a soldier kills you.
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. according to every press release and press briefing since 2003,
they have been fighting only terrorists (or "insurgents," which is a euphemism for "terrorist.")
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. "Do they still have guns and hummers and shit?"
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. That was funny...I laughed also.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. Defensive rather than aggressive..
at least thats my understanding.
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. never in history has 'combat' been defined to exclude defensive operations.
if that is the rationale, this "end of combat" is a lie.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. The aggresive part is ending.
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. So we have non-aggressive combat troops, still occupying a foreign country.
you agree that this PR campaign is willfully misleading.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Perhaps,, but this is still a significant milestone.
I hope all the troops are out as soon as possible.
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. you and me both, brother.
and sooner than that if possible . . .
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. Every soldier is a combat soldier
As I posted on another thread:

"Everyone keeps acting like there are special soldiers who don't have guns or combat training. Jessica Lynch was a 19-year-old female attached to a supply company. She was in combat. A REMF making coffee is a combat soldier. The 50-year-old clerk is a combat soldier. They may not be attached to combat BRIGADES, but they are combat soldiers.

We have 50K troops still there. It's good some are coming home, especially after so many dead Americans and Iraqis and a ruined country, but i REALLY don't like hearing "Mason Accomplished" BS again.

We aren't being "Debbie Downers," we are tired of this perpetual war and the perpetual Government doublespeak."
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. +1 I am overjoyed at the withdrawal of each soldier.
But this PR "end of combat" move is a load of crap.
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Hum with me! Not every soldier is a combat soldier, not every gun is for a kill....
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. Tell that to Shoshana Johnson
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. I'm on your side.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. Oh God, sorry
I am tweaked out on caffiene right now. Sincere mea culpa.
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. okay
let's all hum . . .
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. yes but their mission is now defensive rather than aggresive.
thats my understanding.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. So what? They are still armed soldiers in a hostile area
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
60. Its a bit like the difference between security guards and a SWAT team.
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. So the Union Army at Gettysburg was not engaged in combat,
according to DC Bob and the White House?

Those 300 Spartans at Thermopylae . . . that wasn't combat?

The 101st Airborne, surrounded at Bastogne, were not in combat?

I see . . .
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. Hate to break it to you, but
as a Captain, and a medic... I was not.

Hell I never ever got combat training either. Granted I turned my rank devices and ID when the civil war started, as we could not longer be part of the reserves, but I wasn't a combat soldier.

I got shot at plenty of times though... never mind I was on that damn well marked ambulance.
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
43. True, medics are not considered combat troops.
Thank you for your service, *especially* as a medic.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. It wasn't in the US Military
but hubby and i joke about... he went into a few shindigs with a 50 cal. I went into at least five with no weapon at all... ok technically the maglite could qualify.
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. the whole world shoudl thank a medic.
I'm not taking sides or waving flags.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #48
58. I wish more people took that attitude
the job would be that much easier and less exciting... I could use the less exciting.

Ok I was 18 young and dumb, and invincible when I first joined!

Five years later I had to tell the 18 year olds that they were not gonna live forever...

Thankfully most of the time our job was mostly civilian EMS... but when the army got involved, they got us involved and the heavy toys came out.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
53. I agree on all points
Also, a brigade is 3000-5000 wo/men. That is a relatively small number compared to the 50,000 that remain. How much different could their mission be with (at best) 5% loss of personnel?

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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
40. Obama says they aren't combat troops..
What more could you possibly ask for?
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Barack2theFuture Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-10 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. silly me!
I wonder if they have "health care"
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ipfilter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
61. We have always been at war with eurasia.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
62. k n r -- there will still be combat missions and to say otherwise is just a lie.
or rather...PR.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-10 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
63. "Defensive troops"
Would need to be stationed in the United States.

This is de-escalation. That's great!

But it isn't the end of combat operations. That's just playing with words.
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