Falwell...To Everyone Ashamed of our Celebration

[Madspirit]

To all the insipid who are oh so offended by our celebrating Falwell's death, I think you should be required, by law, to visit an AIDS hospice. I truly do. THAT is what he said WE gays deserve because of who we love. Go NOW. Run like the wind. Go look and see the death, the dying, the tortured, the pain, the misery, the concentration camp looking bodies. Then you should have to go visit some 9/11 widows/widowers. He said we deserve that. Then come back and tell me again how ashamed you are of us. Go now.

Let me know when you get back.
Lee

[WindRavenX]

1. I should've known some people would be tsk tsking

To hell with that. I've got a big bottle on ice, and my fellow gays are comin' over for a party.

[Cronus Protagonist]

148. The tsk tskers should listen to him blaming US for 9/11 (n/t)

[bjobotts]

157. Appreciation doesn't necessarily mean celebration

Saying "That is so cool" is what?

[ejbr]

236. "That is so cool" that I have one less thorn in my ass is what.n/t

[LisaM]

2. As I see it, Jerry Falwell hated me and what I stood for

I'm not sure why I'm now supposed to have sympathy for him or his minions. He was against feminism, against many of my friends (who are gay), was indirectly responsible for three of my friends' brothers dying from AIDS, poisoned the political arena in this country, and was responsible for getting Reagan elected, which undermined the infrastructure of this country, its manufacturing base, its environmental movement, and public education.

[partylessinOhio]

3. Then watch LKL tonight and see Tammy Faye Bakker Messner.

Take a close look at how Falwell destroyed that family and PTL.

[Feron]

34. Thanks for mentioning that.

I love Tammy Faye and will definitely watch. :D

[Ghost in the Machine]

62. Falwell made Jim Bakker sleep with Jessica Hahn? And fleece millions of

poor and elderly? His powers of influence must be amazing.

"In March 1987, it was revealed that Jim Bakker had a sordid love affair with Jessica Hahn, a former church secretary. Jim had given her US$265,000 of the ministry's money to keep her silent.

Homosexuality was also rampant in his PTL studios. A leading evangelist in PTL, John Wesley Fletcher, was once caught giving oral sex to a man in a room in the Bakker's mansion. Jim Bakker too may have been involved in this rampant homosexuality. Austin Miles reported seeing Bakker with three of his male staff naked in the steam room of his mansion, they were, according to Miles "playing with and massaging each other."

Whatever the case maybe, the revelation of his affair with Jessica Hahn started to crumble his empire. His excessive spending and lavish lifestyle was finally brought to the forefront by the media. It was discovered that Jim Bakker had defrauded his supporters of US$158 million by overselling the shares for lodging at his religious theme park, Heritage USA.

In addition he diverted some US$3.7 million of money from his ministry to buy some luxury items for himself. Eventually, in 1989, Jim was convicted of fifteen counts of wire fraud, eight counts of mail fraud and one count of conspiracy.

http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/sexevangelist.html

[bullwinkle428]

195. So Bakker NOT AT ALL like Falwell, who NEVER used the pulpit for personal gain...

:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

[Ghost in the Machine]

298. Doing my best Bullwinkle impersonation: Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a rabbit

...outta my ass! Seriously. WTF are you yammering about? Falwell never used the pulpit for personal gain?? What planet are you from?? OMG, PLEASE tell me you didn't send him money. Please?

If he never used the pulpit for personal gain, please explain his mansion and private jet to me...

[bullwinkle428]

308. Dude, I was being sarcastic!! I got the impression that you were

saying Bakker was SO MUCH WORSE than Falwell because he had "fleeced the flock" of barrels of cash, and were somehow suggesting that Falwell had never done such a thing; ergo, Falwell should not be judged as harshly as Bakker - at least I though that was what you were saying. It sounds like I just misinterpreted your post.

As the cartoon Bullwinkle might have said, "Maybe I should have used a different emoticon!"

[Ghost in the Machine]

309. miscommunications happen.... all too often sometimes. I thought you

were saying that Falwell never used his pulpit for profit.

The original post I responded to stated:

partylessinOhio (1000+ posts) Tue May-15-07 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. Then watch LKL tonight and see Tammy Faye Bakker Messner.
Take a close look at how Falwell destroyed that family and PTL. {emphasis mine}

I just wondered how Falwell was responsible for destroying that family and PTL (Praise The Lord & Pass The Loot!).

It couldn't have had anything to do with Jim Bakker's actions, right?

Peace,

Ghost

P.S.... You wanted the :sarcasm: , not the :eyes: ... makes a world of difference in a format where tone and inflection aren't heard.

***Note to Self***: Send Sarcasm Meter in for much needed tune-up

[bullwinkle428]

311. I was hoping it was just a case of miscommunication! I know we have

a "smorgasbord" of emoticons to choose from here at DU and I'm sure there are some different interpretations of some of them depending on the user. I participate at another board rather regularly and there are only like 5 emoticons available, one of them being the :eyes: so I guess that becomes a "go to" option when it sometimes might not be the best choice. Hell, if I could have a dollar for every time I've witnessed a misinterpretation of a post here, I could retire!

Peace to you too...have a nice evening! :toast:

[xultar]

4. I don't want to hear any shit from you or anyone else bitchin @ freepers for celebrating

when a Liberal or Democrat dies.

[ourbluenation]

6. thank you. look - call the man out on all his evilness, but name calling is juvenile.

fuckwell and fatwell? come on.

[gatorboy]

9. You forgot Fartwell!

[ScreamingMeemie]

19. This poster did not do that.

This poster merely asked those who question to go and see for themselves.

[Maven]

15. Oh c'mon now

You say that as though:

A) The death of an average politician in any way compares to the death of a political figure who espoused a hateful ideology and who deliberately attacked others;

or

B) You could stop freepers from celebrating, or they'd feel the slightest bit of compunction for doing so.

BTW, there is a difference between "celebrating" somone's death and simply acknowledging that he was a person who caused many people much suffering and the world will be better without him. I'm not about to become a revisionist historian or a hypocrite simply because we, in this sappy, dramatic, superstitous culture have determined that death earns you a big, bright, shining halo, literally and figuratively. I'll leave the holier-than-thou karma game to others and keep my integrity intact.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. We're talking about a guy...

who wanted the people of Orlando to be killed because Disneyworld let gay people into their theme park.

Let me know when a liberal says something like that, and then maybe I'll say your comparison is valid.

[Madspirit]

26. Once again...thanking Bornagin...n/t

[MistressOverdone]

40. Oh, I've heard plenty of liberal

death wishes on rednecks, Jeebus lovers, you name it.

Stupidity is bipartisan.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. Link it.

[MistressOverdone]

79. Sorry, I haven't wasted my time hoarding up examples

but you know it happens.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

85. Ah, so you can't support you point.

That supports my point, I think.

[meatloaf]

216. We've all heard plenty of liberal hatred bandied about, but I have yet to see a liberal make the

spreading of that hatred and intolerance their life's work, or get righ while doing so. The very nature of liberals all but makes it impossible for such an animal to exist. We may revel in our anger and hatred of those who oppose us, but I do believe context makes all the difference. At our core we are tolerant and would lay our anger, distrust, and yes our hatred down with a simple agreement to live and let live. I have never met an equivalent conservative.






*edited for spelling.

[MistressOverdone]

282. Fidel Castro?

But truthfully that's the only one I can come up with. You make a good point. They are quite savvy at making money.

[hfojvt]

149. have you got a link for that

because I am finding it was Robertson, who warned Orlando

http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/patrob3.htm

and here's an example of liberal hate speech

http://www.tedrall.com/2005_02_01_archive.html

And warning is not the same thing as wanting. If I warn you that playing raquetball without goggles could lead to sirius eye injuries that does not mean I want you to get hit in the eye even if you ignore my advice.

[Fud]

177. He said he loved Larry Flynt

It was on Larry ninewives King. Jerry kept saying i love you larry as a brother but not your sins, referring to Flynt who he tried to sue and lost. It was for making a cartoon hin huslter mag of Jerry fucking his mother. So he is there smiling saying i still love you and all that crap. What a load of shit he hated his guts. I think it's perfectly ok to hate the hater.

[Hobarticus]

192. BINGO! We have a winner!

To compare the sense of relief and yes, perhaps pleasure, at the death of a truly despicable human being to ANYONE else is absurd.

[Mad_Dem_X]

211. YES

And that is just one of the many, many offensive things he said.

[TankLV]

24. A liberal or Democrat is GOOD - this pigfucker was totally USELESS EVIL!

So you would mourn Hitler's passing?

Go get a fucking CLUE!

I am so sick of the apologists here...

[Warpy]

54. Gee, aren't we better than that?

HELL NO.

Why the hell should we be? The man was a blasphemer who twisted religion to his own greed and power and enabled what may well be the destruction of this country as any sort of democratic power.

I'm no hypocrite. I'm glad he's gone. It's just too bad his evil will live on after him.

[whopis01]

78. It is possible to both not mourn and not celebrate death.

I am not going to shed a tear or claim to be upset by the death of Falwell. However, I am not going to say that I am pleased by it either.

Is the world a better place because he is gone? Frankly, I doubt it. The damage that he did is already done and his death won't remove it. Sure, he won't be around to do any more damage, but I doubt that he really could have anyway. By this point I am pretty certain that people either agreed with his views or they didn't agree with his views. I doubt he was gaining many converts at this point.

Celebrating other's losses is rarely productive. It is better to take joy in one's own successes rather than in other's failures.

[Pacifist Patriot]

102. Well said.

[wtmusic]

146. Celebrating other's losses comes uncomfortably close to

celebrating one's own superiority, which is uncomfortably close to everything Falwell stood for.

Don't want any piece of it (thank you for your reasoned logic). :thumbsup:

[bluescribbler]

190. Amen

Don't celebrate, don't mourn. Just mark his passing, and hope we never see his like again.

[qanda]

200. Great post

I gain nothing by celebrating anyone's death. It only makes one look small and juvenile. I've had three family members and a couple of friends die from AIDS. How does it help them or their memory for me to reduce my humanity? If someone really wants to do something productive, don't just go and look-- go and help, go and volunteer, go and contribute money.

[Madspirit]

25. Doesn't even make fucking sense

What did any liberal or Democrat do that is Evil? huh? They celebrated Molly Ivins death. What did Molly EVER do that came close to comparing her to Falwell. What a crock of crap.
Lee

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enthusiast]

158. Madspirit, you are exactly right! n/t

[NoSheep]

201. Excellent point.

[LostinVA]

205. Bingo -- you go, Lee!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. i dont. this is why i dont go to freeper website.

[libnnc]

32. Not a valid comparison.

Liberals and Democrats don't say things about minorities that Falwell has said.

Liberals and Democrats don't con little old ladies into turning over their savings accounts to build temples for Jeebus.

Wrong comparison.

[RetroLounge]

37. Then close your ears (eyes) and go away...

and then you won't...

:hi:

RL

[Dukkha]

55. i'm sure you'll give condolences to Bin Laden when he dies too.

This smug self righteousness doesn't impress anyone. It is an insult to every gay, lesbian, feminist, and muslim who endured the onslaught of violence and hatred from the army of intolerance he assembled in God's name. He rose above all others in his field to be a singular voice of hate. No true liberal would have anything but contempt for one of our greatest enemies. His death is nothing less than a victory.

[opiate69]

69. Well...

be sure to let me know when a liberal or democrat who was as inhuman, hateful and divisive as Falwell was kicks and I'll be sure to be quiet about it.

[donco6]

71. When it's an evil Dem, no problem.

And who have those been? I could send a belated . . .

[WildEyedLiberal]

99. How many famous liberals say that conservatives are going to hell and are evil satanspawn?

Falwell was a professional bigot. If there were any famous liberals who constructed an entire life around hating, demonizing, and vilifying conservatives to the extent that Falwell has vilified homosexuals, women, and liberals, I'd expect the same treatment of their death on FR.

[mudesi]

105. If a liberal or Democrat says the things Falwell said, I'll join them (nm)

[Der Blaue Engel]

109. THANK YOU. This is not about liberals vs. conservatives

This is about a hateful, evil human being who profited from (and advocated!) the suffering of others. It is purely human to be glad at the riddance of such garbage.

May he rot in the hell he so dearly loved to wish upon others.

[Patchuli]

108. Agree with that

but you know even if we showed total class, freepoids won't anyway. They will always get their digs in.

[purduejake]

111. Then don't read the posts.

And who cares what the freepers say anyway? I don't give them much time... it's time to celebrate OUR GAIN with his passing. With each powerful bigot that passes, the cause for equality and tolerance progresses.

[Forkboy]

119. You can visit Falwell's grave in your Hummer.

Make a weekend of it even!

[hlthe2b]

199. chuckle.....

"do as I say, not as I do" comes to mind....

[d_b]

124. ..

[hlthe2b]

191. Ohhh, the poor kitty

Love the pic and the break from the discussion--LOL

Hugs to the little kitty.

[Balbus]

139. But that's different. Our hate is the good kind of hate.

I don't know how but it just is. Because... well just because!

[grace0418]

202. LOL! It doesn't count when WE'RE hating. Then it's a good thing. Right?

Exactly!

[Marr]

153. Point to me to a liberal who said the sort of openly hateful things that

Falwell openly espoused, and I'll celebrate their deaths, too. Until then, I'm going to say it's ludicrous to compare decent people to Jerry Falwell.

[truebrit71]

196. Yeah because Liberals and Democrats CONSTANTLY demonize and hate other humans..

...with the same relish that Falwell did...

Not even close...

Apples and oranges...

[Beelzebud]

210. You won't hear it from me becaue I don't give a fuck what freepers think about anything!

Fuck the Freepers and Fuck Jerry Falwell..

[jesus_of_suburbia]

262. They don't have to celebrate.. they are smug with their knowledge that we are "burning in hell!"

Don't doubt for a minute that most of them think you are gonna burn in hell too (even if you have accepted Christ as your Lord and Saviour).

[Sequoia]

5. Let's not forget what he said about Katrina either.

All those children washed out to sea.

[Red Zelda]

7. Fuck Falwell.

I hope he suffered ... a lot. I hope Pat Robertson suffers more.
And when I find out where Falwell's buried, I'll piss a gallon on his rancid grave.
It's a day to celebrate!!!!!!!!

[LittleClarkie]

165. Nah, sounds like he had a heart attack

went like that (snap)

Sorry, maybe next time.

[The Wizard]

171. I'd join you at the grave

but I promised myself when I got out of the army I wouldn't be standing in long lines again.

[unpossibles]

8. there's also this:

Jimmy Carter's "message of peace and reconciliation under almost all circumstances is simply incompatible with Christian teachings as I interpret them. This 'turn the other cheek' business is all well and good but it's not what Jesus fought and died for. What we need to do is take the battle to the Muslim heathens and do unto them before they do unto us."

is it too much to want people of faith to at least know what their Holy Leaders actually (supposedly) said?

Fuck this guy. I do not wish death on anyone, but we all die, he's dead, and I won't miss him. He was an asshole and a hateful man.

[robertpaulsen]

38. He actually said that? My head is exploding!

I hope he's standing before God right now explaining what he thinks his son foughtfor. Maybe God will forgive him. I don't.

[orleans]

82. apparently jimmy carter also said falwell could go to hell. n/t

[never cry wolf]

74. Very well put

I concur wholeheartedly.

[MsMagnificent]

278. Sounds like Anton Szandor LaVey

Founder of The Church of Satan:

"And if a man smite you on one cheek, smash him on the other!"

Falwell was no Christian.

[Wiley50]

10. I get it

Another Fascist bites the dust. Did people grave dance when Hitler died?

I wasn't real comfortable, initially, when the grave dancing started

But I've been listening to Randi play Falwell clips all afternoon

And, yeah, if anyone deserves it............

[Catamount]

11. I'm with you--all the way

K&R

[gatorboy]

12. I remember a report on AIDS Life magazine had done in the 80's

And the one image that has always stuck with me was a shot of a boy standing around the ashes of his former home. The boy had AIDS and his fellow neighbors decided it was high time he and his family leave the neighborhood. THAT is Falwell's legacy.

[jonnyblitz]

17. I remember the boy's story as well as the picture.

he and his brothers all contracted AIDS from blood transfusions.

[gatorboy]

22. That's the one.

I remember he had these huge, sad eyes. And I couln't help thinking, even when I was a junior high smart ass, how could anyone be that cruel?

[uppityperson]

13. I have. I still am ashamed. Be glad that a hate mongering person is gone, yes.

But posting such nastiness that parallels how nasty he was? Don't sink to that level. Be glad he is dead and can no longer hurt people. Yes, be very glad. But dance? Post nasty stuff? No.

Use that for doing positive things for the world. Not sinking to the level he was.

[Madspirit]

39. Uppity Friend of Mine....

It's just healthy venting according to my shrink...<g> You know we will have other things to talk about tomorrow. We deserve this day. It's hurting no one, unlike HIM who hurt lots of folks. You know this too will pass. It really is just some venting and is psychologically, morally, ethically OK. THEY do this kind of stuff every day. Let us have our day.
Lee

[uppityperson]

41. fuck fallwell damn him to the deepest depths of hell- I'd say is fine.

I am pissing on his grave is pushing it. I am glad he is dead and can no longer spew his nasty crap. Now, off to fight for human rights for all. Peace to you too Lee.

[Gregorian]

14. This is god! I'm interrupting this thread! RARRRRR.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_tca6zlnRk

[donco6]

72. BWA-Ha-Ha!

OK. So I've had two martinis now, but that is some funny shit . . .

[Gregorian]

76. I think god needs a shave.

Haha.

Falwell was no Gene Scott. It's all a laugh.

[donco6]

87. Or his beard need some glue or somthin'

You can't even see his mouth when he turns his head. Can't God grow a real beard?

[EFerrari]

16. You bet, Lee.

That POS can't burn in the hell I don't believe in soon enough for me.

[BlooInBloo]

18. And to those concerned under-the-bridge-dwellers worried about what "they" will say:

THEY'LL BITCH ABOUT US **ANYWAY**!!

Sheesh. The world was made a better place today. Take a moment to be pleased by that fact, and move on with the usual unresolved issues of the day.

[guitar man]

20. I remember

the right wingers doing the "happy dance" at Wellstone's demise, so fuck what they think first off.

As far as the "we're supposed to be better than that" attitude, I can see where that comes from. When it came out about Tony Snow's cancer a while back, I don't remember a whole lot of negative response from DU that day.

But, Foulwell is a different matter, he was a first rate racist, homophobe and a judgemental hypocrite who made a career of trying to force us into rendering to Caesar what belongs to God.

fuck him. fuck him in the neck.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

23. Sean Hannity said terrible things about DU today...

...because we're celebrating the death of this hateful, evil man. Which just means DU is doing something right!

[saracat]

49. And for once we made him right. I am so ashamed.

[Lord Balto]

75. Well I'm Not

This was obviously "God's will," so we are on the side of the angels and you are on the side of the pathological loonies. Falwell and his fellows reveled in the deaths of anyone they disagreed with. Now we're supposed to be goody two shoes and pretend he was a human being? Not!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

77. Thank you, Lord Balto...

And welcome to DU.
Duckie

[Mad_Dem_X]

212. So true, Lord Balto

I'm not celebrating, but I'm not going to pretend he was a good person. Fuck that shit.

[Forkboy]

120. Write him a letter to tell him how horrified you are to be among us!

Then tivo it so I can watch it.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

125. Oh get the hell out of here.

I know I'm late to this party, but I have been monitoring all these threads and you people who are "tsk tsking" really need to get the fuck over yourselves. The GLBT community has put up with so much crap from people like Falwell, if they want to gather to vent and dance on his grave let them! Who the fuck are you to deny them this moment? This man represented a great deal of evil to people who did not deserve such scorn. So take your self righteousness and stick it where the fuckin' sun don't shine.

Let me guess the people who are lecturing others don't belong to a group that Falwell's venom was directed at? Sick and fucking tired of people telling others how to feel.

I'm starting to ramble so I will end this.

If you don't like what other members of this message board have to say ignore them. Oh but that might deprive you of an opportunity to act all high and fucking mighty.

[lolly]

128. Oh, yeah.

Getting Hannity's approval for my opinions is always my first priority.

If he's happy with me, then I'm happy.

We should just sit back and nod quietly as the MSM heaps praise on this man.

Don't dare let anyone contradict the view that he was a pious, deeply moral leader.

That would be uncivil. And the next Falwell might think twice about his life if he thinks people will denigrate him after his death instead of praising his righteousness . . .

OH, wait. That would be a GOOD thing . . .

[philosophie_en_rose]

131. does anyone smell something?

[LostinVA]

240. Yes

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

283. Just for you, I changed my sig line. Take a look.

[otohara]

98. Wow, I Didn't Know He Was A Lurker

Hi Sean, :hi: we'll celebrate when you :kick: the old bucket too!

[PVnRT]

180. Oh no! Sean Hannity doesn't like us?

Oh, Lord, whatever shall we do? :sarcasm:

Seems the only people here fretting and harumphing about all this are those who care oh so deeply what right-wing pundits think of the forum.

[EnviroBat]

219. I know! He was gonna call our mommies and taddle on us.

What a peice of garbage. He want's Nancy Pelosi to have us shut down!

:rofl:

[Breeze54]

27. Falwell blamed pagans, abortionists, feminists & gays and lesbians!! Not just gays!

http://www.actupny.org/YELL/falwell.html

Rev. Jerry Falwell (with Rev. Pat Robertson) blames pagans, abortionists, feminists
& gays and lesbians for bringing on the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington


Partial transcript of comments from the September 13, 2001 telecast of the 700 Club

JERRY FALWELL: And I agree totally with you that the Lord has protected us so wonderfully these 225 years. And since 1812, this is the first time that we've been attacked on our soil and by far the worst results. And I fear, as Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense, said yesterday, that this is only the beginning. And with biological warfare available to these monsters -- the Husseins, the Bin Ladens, the Arafats -- what we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact -- if, in fact -- God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.

PAT ROBERTSON: Jerry, that's my feeling. I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the major population.

JERRY FALWELL: The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this.

PAT ROBERTSON: Well yes.

JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system..

JERRY FALWELL: Pat, did you notice yesterday the ACLU and all the Christ-haters, People For the American Way, NOW, etc. were totally disregarded by the Democrats and the Republicans in both houses of Congress as they went out on the steps and called out on to God in prayer and sang "God Bless America" and said "let the ACLU be hanged". In other words, when the nation is on its knees, the only normal and natural and spiritual thing to do is what we ought to be doing all the time - calling upon God. ~~~

PAT ROBERTSON: > Amen

---------------------

He wasn't just a shithead and a poor excuse for a human being but he was also a DUMB, Uneducated bumpkis!!

Hope he rots in hell!

[MelissaB]

88. I wish I could nominate your post. n/t

[grace0418]

29. I choose to be a better person than that hate-filled toad. I am sad that others have

allowed his hatred to infect them. I'm not sad that he's gone, and I will never forgive him for what he did in life. Nor will I mourn or eulogize him in any way.

Please try not to assume that reluctance to stoop to Falwell's level is a sign that people don't care for the victims of his abuse. I have visited an AIDS hospice, thank you very much. And I have lost people I care about for no good reason. People Falwell would hate.

I know that Falwell would not have anything good to say about me because of my beliefs. But an eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind.

[Madspirit]

42. You are missing something here

WE aren't hurting anyone. There is no blind here. It's just healthy venting according to my shrink. We deserve this day. HE hurt lots of folks. It really is just some venting and is psychologically, morally, ethically OK. THEY do this kind of stuff every day. Let us have our day.
Lee

[grace0418]

50. Okay, if you say so. I can't stop you from having your day.

But I do ask that you not suggest that I haven't seen (or don't care about) what Falwell's brand of hate has done just because I find it distasteful to stoop to his level of vitriol.

[Enthusiast]

159. Exactly!

He said people chose to be gay. Who in the FUCK would chose to grow up in a world of hate and abuse? He was a hate monger!

[whopis01]

80. good for you.

I agree with your thoughts exactly. It is disheartening and even a little scary to see so much hatred come out of people that you feel a connection with.

[grace0418]

133. Thanks.

People will hopefully vent and then move on. Otherwise they'll become consumed with the same kind of hate they condemned in people like Falwell.

[motocicleta]

107. Oh come on.

You called him a hate-filled toad, and you claim some moral superiority over those of us who can admit we are fucking psyched that he will no longer breathe the same air as our loved ones? Give me a goddamned break. You're happy he's dead, you're just too much of a prude or a coward to admit it.

Newsflash: liberals let people live their lives, conservatives try to dictate standards of behavior. Please consult your rulebook.

[grace0418]

132. Okay.

However, I never said I was sad about his death. In fact, I believe I mentioned that I would not mourn him. But if wishing to avoid stooping to his level makes me a prude, then a prude I am. And I don't believe that bullshit about liberals not having standards of behavior. My "rulebook" includes an expectation that we should all treat one another with respect, which implies certain standards of behavior. That's why I loathe everything that Jerry Falwell was about. And that is also why I try not to play in the mud with people of his ilk.

[spoony]

121. Thank you.

It's so utterly dishonest to say that not participating in this celebration of death means that we somehow are approving his stupidity. Thank you for your post.

[grace0418]

135. I sure feel like a minority today.

Thanks for the shout out.

[philosophie_en_rose]

138. Thank you for declaring your superiority.

How could anyone's spirits not be lifted by your generous proclamation?

Because people hurt by the words and deeds of a vicious, racist, sexist, bigot are clearly not only not as good as you; they have also caught cooties.

You are right. People should never, never, never be angry or allow themselves to express through words the relief they feel that Falwell can no longer continue his crusade against them. That's not very healthy, but then people who don't process things like you are clearly morally deficient.


:sarcasm:

[grace0418]

142. I'm sorry, was I supposed to agree with this behavior to be part of the cool club?

I'm so bad at figuring out what's cool on DU these days.

People have every right to loathe everything about him and his hateful deeds. I know I do. And I know I have had (and will continue to have) many choice words to vent about him and others like him. But there's a huge difference between venting one's anger and stooping to the level of someone like Falwell. Lots of DUers seem to know the difference, some don't.

But please, continue to make me out to be the jackass. It's all good.

[tomreedtoon]

175. It's the Westboro Baptist Church, Gay Division.

It's the same behavior as Reverend Phelps participated in, but hey, it's OUR side doing it. That makes it all right. doesn't it?

There is a difference between critiquing the behavior of a living person, and cursing a DEAD GUY. The dead guy can't reform. The living one might.

But maybe that's the reason so many DU'ers would rather pick on a corpse. They don't have to prepare for any snappy comebacks...at least from the target. I'm sure that the other right-wing evangelists will be able to quote these disrespectful remarks and do Falwell's work for him.

Thank you, grace0418, for being one of the few voices of compassion and sanity in this carnival of childish get-even behavior.

[grace0418]

204. Thanks tomreedtoon. It's a sad day on DU when *I'm* a voice of sanity.

;)

[LostinVA]

227. You already had this post deleted in one thread today

And, by your logic, no one should criticize Hitler, Stalin, Ted Bundy, etc.

Oh brother.

[JackBeck]

229. It's NOT the same behavior as Phelps.

And for what it's worth, I've stood face to face with these men, in real life and told them they are wrong. The next time I recruit for a counter-demonstration, I'll be sure to PM you an invitation.

The amount of damage these men have done to communities in this country is insufferable. Our wounds are open and weeping. We'll sit down and shut-up once the healing is complete.

[swimboy]

239. Everybody seemed happy when the house fell on the Wicked Witch

Was that wrong for the Munchkins to express that emotion? How do I explain this to the children?

[Maven]

252. Go shed your tears for Falwell elsewhere, please.

We're all stocked up on crazy, here.

[LostinVA]

228. Victims of an oppressor have a right to be glad that oppressor is dead

I am such a victim, and I'm glad that evil monster is dead.

[grace0418]

281. I can agree with that. I just can't agree with everyone engaging in the same kind

of hate-talk that made him the object of our scorn in the first place. And I really have a problem with being told that I must not care about or know anyone who is a victim of his hate-speech (really ridiculous considering he directed his hate at nearly everyone) because I don't want to stoop to his level of hatefulness.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on what is appropriate here.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. And yet another K&R

[Mutley]

33. I'm not usually one to celebrate the death of anyone

but I gotta admit that this time I felt some kind of weight lift from my shoulders when I heard the news. That man was truly a bastard.

[a la izquierda]

117. Ditto...I actually smirked a bit. N/t

This was a man who wished my mother and uncle didn't exist and wanted them to rot in hell. Fuck him right in the ear. Satan probably groaned a bit when Falwell walked through the gates of hell...

[philosophie_en_rose]

127. It's not a celebration of his death; it's a consequence of his life.

Did I wish for unfortunate things to happen to Jerry Falwell? Not really. I didn't care enough for that. However, I am glad that he no longer has the opportunity to inflict his brand of stupidity and hatred upon the world.

I agree with your assessment, though I find the smug self-appointed superiors to be far more tiresome than anyone doing a jig on Falwell's grave. At least they're entertaining.

[tandot]

35. My father would have turned 70 today, 5/15. He died of AIDS in '92

Falwell and ANYONE as hateful as him do NOT deserve our respect.

[momster]

184. My Father Too Had AIDS

He died in '95, his partner 2 years later. Dad's passing added considerably to his mother's dementia because she'd taken what Falwell and Reagan (and others) literally. That my father was a sinner and a criminal and deserved what he got. Which is why I'm delighted beyond words that Falwell is gone. I'm betting his 'university' won't last very long now and I'll rejoice when every institution Falwell ever touched is one with the Medes and the Persians.

[leftwingnut]

36. The only thing I would have enjoyed more...

...would have been death by gun shot wound.

I think the funniest thing that could happen would be for Charlton Heston (or similar conservative) to die from gun shot wounds. Accidental would be better but I'll take an intentional shooting as well.

[jazzjunkysue]

44. Falwell: "If I misrepresent God's will, let God strike me dea-"

Oh. Damn.

[Feron]

45. I hate what my friend calls "Uncle Oscar Syndrome".

Uncle Oscar Syndrome is when an SOB dies and people fall over each other to say nice things about him simply because he is dead. Death doesn't whitewash a person.

I'm not one to celebrate deaths per se, but good riddance to Jerry Falwell. That man used his pulpit to spread hatred and is a toned down version of Fred Phelps. Falwell only cared about his own personal power and wealth and not about following the tenets of his religion.

People should remember how vile he was so that he won't be replaced by anyone else. There should be no room for bigots and racists.

[firefox_fan]

46. Fireworks!

[Swamp Rat]

47. from the RudePundit: A Favorite Jerry Falwell Quote:

"5/15/2007
A Favorite Jerry Falwell Quote:

(snip)

Here's Falwell preaching in 1958, quoted in a Washington Post profile in 1988 by Walt Harrington:

"'In this message,' Falwell intoned pompously, 'I want to use the Bible alone as our guide. It is never worthwhile to give man's opinion...The answer to the whole subject can be found in Genesis 9:18-27.' Falwell went on to explain that Ham, the son of Noah, had seen Noah naked one day. When Noah discovered this, he cursed Ham's son, Canaan: 'A servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.' Falwell explained that Ham later became the progenitor of the African race.

"He rambled on, still using 'the Bible alone' as his guide: 'The true Negro does not want integration...He realizes his potential is far better among his own race...We see the hand of Moscow in the background...We see the Devil himself behind it...It will destroy our race eventually...In one northern city, a pastor friend of mine tells me that a couple of opposite race live next door to his church as man and wife ...It boils down to whether we are going to take God's Word as final.'

"Oblivious to the hatefulness of his sermon, Falwell concluded: '...If we live in constant fellowship with the Lord, He can enable us to live Christ-like before others.'""

(snip)

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/

[saracat]

48. I am sorry This disgusts me and my best friend in the world died of Aids.

And I have visited the hospice to vosit other friends. I am still ashamed.

[grace0418]

51. I'm sorry about your friend saracat.

And I agree with you. :hug:

[Duncan Grant]

53. Same here but I'm not disgusted or ashamed. (nt)

[Bluerthanblue]

63. Saracat

:hug:

peace,comfort,hope
blu

[Kajsa]

232. Same here,

One of my best friends and work buddies
died of Aids.

I don't mourn Falwell's death.
Nor do I celebrate it.

What's next?
Dragging Falwell's corpse through the streets?

I'm sorry for your loss, Saracat.
I've been there.

:hug:

[Bjornsdotter]

52. Falwell was an asshole

....and dead, he's still an asshole. At least now he can't spew any more of his hatred at the rest of us.

Cheers

[seabeyond]

56. falwell didnt just hate gays. he equally hated women, liberals,

other relgions and the non religous equally. yes he said the ugliest about gays, but we are all equally going to hell in falwells opinion.

[jazzjunkysue]

59. Look at this link of his Liberty pres. calling calvinists worse than muslims

http://www.founders.org/blog/2007/04/jerry-falwells-friday-13th-declaration.html

Saturday, April 14, 2007
Jerry Falwell's Friday the 13th declaration: Limited atonement is heresy

"We are not into partcular love or limited atonement. As a matter of fact we consider it heresy."


Dr. Falwell's comments shed some light on the atrocious comment made last year by the president of his Liberty Seminary. Those of you who have read this blog in February of 2006 probably recall when Dr. Ergun Caner declared that "Calvinists are worse than Muslims."

http://www.erguncaner.com/site/?p=138

QUESTIONS ON NEO-CALVINISM, (Part 1)
Into the Lion’s Den with Dr. Ergun Mehmet Caner
President, Liberty Theological Seminary
Liberty University (Lynchburg, Virginia)
© 2006 erguncaner.com • liberty.edu/lts



-------------------------------------
From Me: These guys fight amongst themselves. It's scary. All they know how to do is fight. It's not just the free thinkers they're after. It's any thinkers.

If you try to mollify them, by giving in to their controlling declarations, they'll never be satisfied.

[seabeyond]

61. we are all going to hell. we are all in the same group. the man

isnt respected anyway, no one here buys his crap, yet we are going to divide our large whole into groups on who is hated the ost by this man? fight over who is suppose to go to hell the hardest, fastest, worst?

falwell hated....

[juno jones]

106. OMG!

What rock have I been under? I thought THEY were the calvinists! Took a wrong turn at the Reformation I see. Anymore, I can't keep the sects straight without a scorecard.

[hfojvt]

57. ain't talking about love

A guy sorta propositioned me once in Lincoln, Nebraska. I am pretty sure that what he had in mind had nothing to do with love.

Except for whatever impact he had on the level of funding, Falwell's hateful words did not cause the misery I would see at an AIDS hospice.

His hateful words only demonstrate his lack of class, compassion, and thoughtfulness. Our hateful words demonstrate ... What? Our revulsion at his wickedness? Wasn't that his motivation? The idea that God, herself, hates some people and so we can hate them with God on our side.

'We stand at Rossa's grave not in sadness, but in exultation of spirit... This is a place of peace sacred to the dead, where men should speak with all charity and all restraint; but I hold it a Christian thing... to hate evil, to hate untruth, to hate oppression, and hating them to strive to overthrow them... while Ireland holds these graves, Ireland unfree, shall never be at peace.' Patrick Pearse 1915

But there is good and bad in everyone. Don't give carte blanche to your own dark side.

[Madspirit]

60. Venting Not Action

Some of you guys have a hard time telling the difference between "venting" and "action". We are hurting NO ONE.
Lee

[Matsubara]

58. I'm not ashamed of it but I'm sure as hell not joining in.

If I thought that Falwell celebrated the deaths of AIDS patients (the way people like Phelps do), then I might be celebrating his death. But as stupid and hypocritical as he was, he was representative of the typical viewpoints of the 20th century American evangelical, and "Hate the sin, love the sinner" was a part of that. I don't agree with it and I do think it tends to give license to gay-bashers to do violence, but a lot of people do sincerely believe in that crap. My birth mother is one of them, and as strongly as I disagree with her, I won't be dancing on her grave either.


If you think doing a jig, sticking out your tongue and celebrating the death of one fat old man will do ANYTHING to alleviate the suffering of AIDS patients, or bring back the dead, then go right ahead, but from here it just makes you look kinda childish.

[Madspirit]

64. Bully for you

I gather you are not gay/lesbian. ...and my shrink says it's healthy. It's called "venting". We have done nothing to even compare to the evil that man spread.
Lee

[spoony]

155. Your shrink should read the things you post here.

That might alter their view of how "healthy" this all is.

[momster]

185. In What Way Did He Show Love

to 'sinners'? Did he help anyone, anywhere, except those who already believed what he did -- charging them also for the privilege? Is there some great charity that Falwell founded? Some halfway house, drug treatment center, homeless shelter? If so, please enlighten me. I've been reading his obits and I'm not seeing anything about what a great humanitarian Falwell was so far. He and the other Christo-types may mouth 'hate the sin, love the sinner' but it seems they were much more heavily weighted into the first part rather than the second.

[Pied Piper]

65. As my dearly departed grandmother used to say

when she learned that some scum had met his eternal reward,

"And may he fart in the sand."

See 'ya, Jerry,
Wouldn't wanna be 'ya!

Say Hi to Dick N., Ronnie, Adolf, and Saddam, oh, and don't forget Strom, Yassar and Idi! Make a space for Pat and James; if the world is lucky, they'll be joining you soon.

I bet he was surprised at how quickly the Express Train to Hell moves.

No, I won't dance or piss on his grave - the line will be too long, and it's really not my style.

Lighten up, nannies; life is too short to worry about what others are doing or saying - leave that to the freepers.

Hugs and kisses,
Pied Piper

[lies and propaganda]

66. I am with you. He was a shitty person

I weep no tears.

[slackmaster]

67. Madspirit, don't give in to hate

That leads to the Dark Side.

[Madspirit]

73. Ahh but Slackmaster

This is just venting. What he did was "hate". I'm sure things will be back to normal...whatever that means around here...<g>...tomorrow.
Lee

[Frank Cannon]

83. Obi-Wan Kenobi made his friend and student a triple amputee...

with third-degree burns over most of his body.

Even the fair-minded Obi-Wan Kenobi knew when someone was a complete a**hole.

ON EDIT: Darth Vader was actually a quadruple amputee. I forgot that he'd already lost one arm.

[EnviroBat]

222. Oh man, there's some GOLD here today!!!

:rofl: I'm glad I tuned in!

[Raksha]

68. I always THINK I'm going to dance on the grave of my enemies,

and threaten to do it quite often when a freeper or a fundie gets me angry enough, and yet now that it comes to it I can't bring myself to join in all the Schadenfreude. I guess what I really feel is relief that this particular enemy can't hurt us any more. No matter what other enemies still exist or may arise in the future, the evil influence of THIS particular enemy is over and done with, and for that all I can feel is relief.

Also he wrote his own memorial: The words he spoke on September 13, 2001 will be remembered as long as Jerry Falwell's name is remembered, a testament not to his so-called "faith" but to his hatred.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

70. K&R you tell um friend

[Rex]

81. They lack the ability to understand scalability.

One sentence you or I type is exactly equivalent to ALL the years of evil Jerry did in his lifetime. Pity them and Jerry.

[baldguy]

84. I celebrated when Reagan died. I celebrated when Nixon died.

I celebrated when Wm Casey died. I celebrated when Lee Atwater died.
I celebrated when Tim McVeigh died.

I will celebrate when Karl Rove dies. I will celebrate when Donald Rumsfeld dies.
I will celebrate when Bush Sr dies. I will celebrate when John Negroponte dies.
I will celebrate when Pat Robertson dies. I will celebrate when Fred Phelps dies.
I will celebrate when Dick Cheney dies. I will celebrate when Bush Jr dies.

When a person who seeks to destroy my life and my country dies, I celebrate.

[Enthusiast]

162. Hey, Falwell celebrated the deaths of terrorists

What is the difference? These creeps are no less terrorists than the suicide bombers in Iraq.

[orleans]

86. nice post. (seriously.)

falwell helped to spread a cancer on this country. he was a piece of shit. my reaction, upon hearing, was "good riddance."

vent away! malloy vented, randi vented. i'm venting. we have every right to vent.

[BrklynLiberal]

89. My only regret is that his death was not more painful and drawn out.

If anyone ever did not deserve a swift, peaceful and painless demise, it was Jerry Falwell.

[spoony]

156. Can any of you say this isn't hatred? You think this is just

some "healthy anger"?

[iverglas]

218. so the fuck what??

What is accomplished by saying something is "hatred"?

Just using the same word doesn't make the things the same.

People -- me included -- HATE Falwell because of the vicious, evil things he did.

Falwell INCITED OTHER PEOPLE TO HATE complete strangers because of what they were, and to act on that hatred by imposing public policies that HURT those complete strangers.

Same four letters, completely different things.

Am I to be chided for saying I hate brussels sprouts next?

What the hell is wrong with hating people for the vicious, evil things they do? What kind of people would we be if we didn't?

[spoony]

242. I now understand your other position

of reducing guns as much as possible, for if you think everyone has your demeanor it would obviously be a bad thing for them to also have access to weapons.

[iverglas]

245. I've never had any doubts myself

about what drives people to post nasty drivel like

I now understand your other position
of reducing guns as much as possible, for if you think everyone has your demeanor it would obviously be a bad thing for them to also have access to weapons.

Isn't it funny how it isn't people who have my "demeanour" who go around killing other people?

And how often it is people whose "demeanour" is more closely modeled on Jerry Falwell's who do that?

Huh.

[Forkboy]

275. Funny how the people who bemoan all the hate don't hesistate to insult others.

[SiobhanClancy]

90. I am one of the "insipid"...

at least if by "insipid" you mean someone who considers it unseemly to celebrate anyone's death,however much I may have disliked them and everything they stood for.I'll tell you one thing that pisses me off,though...someone in their arrogance saying that if you don't celebrate the death of this foolish human you should be required to visit an AIDS hospice. I spent my share of time doing that when my dearly missed brother Tom was dying. He wouldn't celebrate Falwell's death if he were here,because Tom was a very humane man with no room for hatred in his very large heart. I don't mourn Falwell,other than the mourning I feel for a misspent life that could have been put to much better purpose had he truly followed the teachings of Christ. I just find celebrations of death repellent and appalling..if that makes me "insipid",I guess I can live with that.

[lolly]

136. No,

Nobody's calling you insipid for not "celebrating."

Do whatever want with his death--it makes no difference to him or to anyone else.

But if you don't like hearing people say they're justifiably glad the world is rid of him, then don't listen.

Don't go to a heavy metal concert and then whine because there's too much noise. Just don't go. Don't click on these threads. Don't lecture people who don't fit into your moral standards.

Letting the rosy eulogies go unchallenged is like leaving the Swifliars unchallenged. If nobody hears any differently, and nobody hears any sense of passion or belief on the other side, they'll go on thinking he was a pious, moral man. He wasn't. That opinion should NOT be left unchallenged.

[SiobhanClancy]

213. Sorry,I wasn't the one "lecturing"..

I wasn't the one indicating that people should be required to visit an AIDS hospice if they object to the celebrations. If it wasn't for that,I wouldn't have bothered commenting. Many of us have lost family members to AIDS and that remark was just a bit much to take.

[Bread and Circus]

91. So you've become as hateful as him?

Not sure that fixes much. Being Gay or being prejudiced against isn't a license to hate.

[StarryNite]

122. Since when do we need a license

to feel a perfectly human emotion? We feel what we feel. Would you rather we all pretend to be saddened by the death of this vial man? That would make us hypocrites.

[philosophie_en_rose]

129. yes, because being against something means you're actually for it.

If Falwell advocated for political and social policies against gays, lesbians, abortionists, democrats, and non-fundies, then surely those people should celebrate his life.

Because it is hatred to stand up to hatred.

It's racist to stand up to racists.

It's mean to recognize meaness.

It's homophobic to stand up to homophobes.


:sarcasm:

[ecstatic]

92. I guess I just wasn't raised that way. Even if a Grand KKK wizard died

I would not be gleeful or sad. I'd just be neutral. I can't let hate consume me. But that's just me.

[Bucky]

96. That's a good way to live.

Anger is healthy; Hate is self destructive in the long run.
.

[grace0418]

203. Watch out THAL, soon you'll be attacked for being high and mighty.

But I for one am glad you were raised right! :hug:

[Forkboy]

276. Insinuating that you guys were raised right and others weren't IS being high and mighty.

Deal and get off the cross.The other martyrs need it.

[grace0418]

280. Insinuating that those of us who find all this extremely distasteful must not care

about gays or people with AIDS (or that we're right-wing trolls, and all manner of awful things) is being just plain nutty, yet many on this thread and elsewhere on DU have done it.

All this talk about who's all "high and mighty" sounds awfully defensive to me.

And what does martyrdom have to do with ANYTHING? I'm not sacrificing anything in an attempt to do the right thing.

[malmapus]

93. I have to admit, I blurted out the first thing that came to my mind when I heard the news

in the cafeteria at work:

“I wonder which direction he went?”

To which my buddy responded:

“In the ground I imagine.”

I think the “new guy” with us might have been offended, he’s a proclaimed Faux News junkie and just on that side of the tracks on all things it seems and didn't have any input to our conversation at all.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MODemocrat]

95. Falwell blamed Gays and Feminists, etc. for 911

I feel absolutely no pain to hear of his leaving this world. Bush and Cheney are the ones he should have blamed. He had his priorities all screwed up. He bilked people out of millions of dollars, and
did it with a smile on his face.

I would miss my extracted ulcerated tooth more than I will miss Falwell.;( :evilgrin: :freak:

[Roland99]

97. Didn't he also blame the world's social ills on the homeless??

A truly sick piece of shit is now dead.

I, for one, am glad one less bigoted prick fake Christian is breathing no more.

[Danger Mouse]

100. Meh. He was scum, a hate-mongering sleaze of the lowest order.

But I'm not going to dance on his grave.
It just feels...wrong...to take joy in the death of another, no matter how much I despise them. That's just me, however.
I feel no pity for him.

[Pacifist Patriot]

101. And I'm weary of people assuming I've never been to an AIDS hospice.

It is perfectly possible to have your heart broken by the tragedy of AIDS and not find the celebratory attitude particularly charming.

[grace0418]

137. Thank you very much.

I agree. You're not alone here. It just feels like it.

[MODemocrat]

103. Madspirit, you're so right , and I heartily agree

Falwell dished it out all the while he was alive, with his huge audiences believing and loving all that he said. He was not what I'd consider a man of God for condeming those who happen to be different than him. It was very hurtful to hear his condemnation of others. He despised Democrats; and news station NBC to him meant NO BILL CLINTON, which was mean spirited.

It's about time all of us, whom he so-disliked, are able to celebrate his demise. I'm glad he's gone!
He's made this world a better place by leaving it. :nopity: :grr:

[Solly Mack]

104. I'm just mourning in my own special way

[greyghost]

110. Exactly...

Fuck those assholes.

At tmes like this I find myself hoping there is a just God. Because, if there is, his fat ass will be burning in hell for eternity.

:bounce: This is me, dancing on the fuckers grave!:evilgrin:

[greyghost]

112. I only hope...

that Pat Robertson joins him in hell VERY soon!:evilgrin:

[monobrau]

113. these people play for keeps, folks

If you don't have the stomach to fight the good fight, then go have some herbal tea and shut the fuck up.
Scum like Falwell and his pig followers will oppress you and they will kill you. Do you understand? They will kill you and people like you if you can't stand up and fight.
Their deaths are a cause for celebration and I dance on their graves.

[greyghost]

114. Exactly

The only thing they understand is a punch in the face and a kick in the ass!

They play for keeps, and the tree hugging Dem's better learn that pronto.

I only hope that Pat Robertson joins Falwell in hell post haste.

[Madspirit]

115. Yes...Robertson!...

Another man who is absolute in his Evil.
Lee

[Enthusiast]

161. This is what I am saying.........

These creeps would send you to the gas chambers for being non-belivers. Just give them enough time and power. These fucks are fascists, make no mistake.

[Riverman]

116. Bless you my Sister!

[spoony]

118. Hiding your contemptible ghoulishness

beneath the bodies of dying people does not excuse it, it makes it worse. Your hate doesn't help them. Your hate doesn't improve their lot. It doesn't comfort them. It doesn't avenge them. It just uses them to make you feel okay about cheering for certain people's deaths.

[philosophie_en_rose]

141. Define Hate.

I think it's unfortunate that Falwell died suddenly and alone, though I certainly don't feel any sorrow for him.

However, I don't understand how anyone that is glad Falwell is gone - for whatever reasons - is as bad as Falwell himself.

How is it hate to recognize hate? How is it hate to be glad that Falwell no longer has the opportunity to hurt anyone?

If you criticize America, do you hate it? If you recognize that Falwell's legacy is hateful, are you hateful?

Falwell's death is not the end of bigotry, but failing to recognize Falwell's true legacy is a slap to the face of the people he targeted. Because it apparently better to appear superior, than process emotions.

:shrug:

[spoony]

147. Are you and I on the same website?

The one you're on where people are merely pointing out that his legacy is a bad one is not loading on my browser. The one I'm seeing has people utterly shitting themselves in glee at the demise of a pathetic man. People wishing for him to suffer in hell. People merrily describing his decaying corpse. On and on. If you cannot identify what hatred is versus objective criticism I surely cannot help you do so in the confines of a message board.

[Occulus]

251. So sayeth he who was never Falwell's direct target n/t

[Madspirit]

272. Right On!

It's so easy for those who have never been a victim of anyone to go around spewing their right wing bile blaming the victims rather than the persecutors.
Lee

[Madspirit]

271. *SNORT*

Actually I volunteer at a hospice and they were celebrating last night. They do not need the likes of YOU. They wuv me, just btw...as do the 92 recommenders of this thread.

Lee

[spoony]

297. Bullshit

I don't believe a word you say. Why would I, since you've already shown yourself to be a liar by being able to see my posts.

[Forkboy]

277. Which you then use to make yourself feel good.

[Quixote1818]

123. Ding Dong the Witch is Dead!

:party: :toast: :bounce: :kick: :woohoo: :applause:

[deadmessengers]

126. I've done both, and I'm still ashamed.

Celebrating the death of another human being reduces us to the level of the Repugnicans. It disgusts me to see it. And yes, I've been to an AIDS hospice - I've volunteered for AIDS groups, bringing meals to the dying, back when AIDS really was a death sentence. And I've also attended at least one 9/11 funeral, and comforted the mother of one of my childhood best friends, a NYC firefighter who died trying to save the lives of others at the WTC.

And I'm still ashamed. I've never been more ashamed, in fact.

[grace0418]

144. ...

:hug:

[provis99]

130. well, I'm not gay, and only know one gay person, and I'm glad Falwell croaked

He didn't personally attack me over his anti-gay diatribe; yet I still hated the bastard. After all, you don't have to be Jewish to hate Hitler. Good riddance to the rotten turd.

[sanskritwarrior]

134. Yes because hatred answered with more hatred

is definitely the way to go......How disgusting all you gloaters are.......

[grace0418]

143. Now why do you say that?

Could it be that's how everything escalates into all out war and misery? Hmm.

Just wait until you start getting attacked for daring to be "morally superior" as if that's a bad thing.

Thanks for your post, my friend.

[Moochy]

145. Being "morally superior" and claiming moral superiority

are different things. Moral Majority anyone?

[Kurovski]

151. Thank you for noticing my disgust

as well as my disgusting-ness. It is beautiful to be acknowledged. Blessings be yours. :hug:

As a general question for DU: is it true that Satan will give it to you up the poop-shoot upon arrival in hell? Or is that a rumor?

[underseasurveyor]

167. Oh now, come come

Our behaviour may not be up to par and perhaps disgusting is your way to describe it however, we, ourselves are not disgusting people:P

For instance, I may think your opinion is stupid but I don't believe you to be a stupid person. See the difference?
So no more name calling:spank:

And for the record I don't 'hate' jerry falwell but I am glad he is dead. Now he can't spread more of his hate-filled twisted crap that did and does hurt real people, good people. One doesn't have to hate a person to feel good about their dying.


heh:evilgrin:

[LostinVA]

230. Victims of this oppressor are not "gloating"

No one has a right to tell victims how to react to the demise of their oppressor. Falwell was evil.

[JackBeck]

246. Would you tell the same thing to the Jews who rejoiced over Hitler's death?

Jerry Falwell was an American Hitler. He is responsible for thousands of deaths and hate crimes against the GLBT community.

[Name removed]

254. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JackBeck]

258. Would you like to answer my question?

And it's against DU rules to insult posters.

:hi:

[sanskritwarrior]

260. Calling people who have this much hatred in their hearts

is not insulting, it's telling the truth.

And no I'm not going to answer your laughably absurd question. A question that compares Jerry Falwell to Hitler can't be answered as there is no comparison.

I don't doubt Falwell was a bad guy, but the hysterical hate flowing from this site is embarrassing. The next time someone on our side dies and the freepers act this way, I'm sure the hypocrisy will be everywhere as well call them every name under the sun, as we call them heartless bastards, as we chastise them for being uncaring and evil..........

Man won't that irony be rich............

[JackBeck]

264. Both men were responsible for the deaths of countless numbers of people.

So for me, who was once on the receiving end of a gay bashing and had his life spared, the comparison is appropriate.

My question was: "Would you tell the same thing to the Jews who rejoiced over Hitler's death?" How is that laughable? Both men oppressed specific groups of people.

It's not hypocritical. Think about Wellstone. Did he make a career out of race-baiting, homophobia, and anti-semitism? No. He lived his life as a progressive. Or what about Cindy Sheehan? She's still alive and they've called her every name under the sun. Jeebus only knows what their reaction is going to be when she passes. But she lives her life fighting for peace. Not spreading hate like Falwell did.

[sanskritwarrior]

288. According to us she is spreading peace

according to the other side she is spreading hate.....there are two sides to every tale, that's why the level of hatred here is so appalling. They denigrate our heroes when they die and we accuse them of hate speech towards our heroes and tell each other we would act better if the role was reversed, and when the chance to prove it comes, we act as bad if not worse than they do..........

Hitler was the leader of a country and used that country's military, legal, and police system to brutalize people.

Exactly which branch did Falwell control again?

[JackBeck]

293. Falwell had Reagan's ear during the burgeoning AIDS crisis.

But since the homosexuals were the only ones (yet they were not) being infected with HIV, he convinced Reagan to ignore HIV/AIDS. There are now at least 40 million infected with HIV worldwide, if not more since some nations refuse to release their numbers. We have almost One Million HIV infected individuals in the United States. I blame Falwell and the Moral Majority for those numbers. And in the same breathe I blame Falwell and his minions for the deaths at the hands of hate crimes.

Our country just saw 6 years of one party government which was a result of Jerry Falwell and his crusade to further his agenda. He bragged about having our government's attention during that period. And his compatriots continue to do so. The theocrats are in control of this country and his death only empowers his associates.

Like I've said before, would you be so hard on the Jews who were celebrating the death of Hitler?

[LostinVA]

307. "hysterical hate" -- oh boy

The oppressed get to decide how to react to the oppressor's death. Not the unoppressed.

[LeftyMom]

294. In intent, if obviously not in effectiveness.

How could somebody who repeatedly said that AIDS was his god's punishment for homosexuality not be seen as in favor of the death of gay people? After all, he saw it as god's will and believed that himself and his followers were agents of that divine will.

To put it another way, he blamed feminists, gays, "abortionists" (it's hard to hate them when we call them "doctors" I guess) and whoever else had pissed him off for 9-11. What are the penalties for terrorism, mass murder and treason? He wanted a whole hell of a lot of people dead. That he couldn't make it happen doesn't make him any less of a slimy sack of maggot-ridden shit.

[JackBeck]

295. Falwell helped facilitate the death of multiple Americans,

And I'm being kind.

You've got a great grasp, LeftyMom, of his intense and evil power.

[LostinVA]

306. Of course Falwell=Hitler and his architects

Anyone denying that is wearing blinders.

The GOAL of Falwell, Bush, etc. is to totally take over the country. Do you think for one second that they wouldn't have "re-education centers" and concentration camps if they could get away with it? You know they would.

As I've said on DU posts the last 48 hours: Falwell was as bad as anyone would sat in the box at Nuremberg, and worse than some, such as Speer.

[underseasurveyor]

140. {{{{Hugs}}}}

For you Madspirit:hug:

:yourock:

[Bluebear]

150. Say it loud, my sister.

:hug: to Lee

[underseasurveyor]

152. {{{Hugs}}}

To you too Bluebear :hug:
:yourock: Oh YEA, Oh Yea:headbang:

[Swamp Rat]

164. abraços

to YOU temperancedissent! :hug:

:hi:

[underseasurveyor]

169. You know

That I adore you:hug:

Marry me :loveya:

[LittleClarkie]

154. A difference of opinion on a discussion board

who'da thunk it.

[Enthusiast]

160. It's like this................

Democrats can continue to be wennies if they want. I will attack the bastards every chance I get, just like they do me. Yeah, I know, "Like people like you want to be liked." LMAO!

[LittleClarkie]

163. It's a dead dude. How does attacking a dead dude advance the cause

and make one less of a weenie.

Perhaps a living bastard would be more worthy of your ire.

Meanwhile if you hate a hater, you do nothing to him. You only diminish yourself.

What the hell does "Like people like you want to be liked" supposed to mean? Were you trying for a version of treat people as you would want to be treated?

How does acting like a lefty freeper do any of us any good?

[Enthusiast]

166. It is a Bush quote............

It is a Bush quote or an approximation of one. My point is this, these scum don't represent Jesus, they only claim to.

[LibertyorDeath]

168. Bravo !!

The amount of hyper sensitive Kumbya lovers on this site makes me

physically ill.

The man was a fucking monster......

[MichaelHarris]

170. seen it

watched my little brother die. Fuck the pork-rind face bastard.

[OneBlueSky]

172. two wrongs don't make a right . . . never have, never will . . . n/t

.

[nadine_mn]

173. Lee - I have visited and worked with AIDS patients in hospice

"Let me know when you get back"

so I am back.... and surprisingly being around people who are dying from AIDS (which includes hetero, bi, and homosexual people) doesn't make me cheer sbout the death of someone else - no matter how hateful he was. Do I think the world is better off without his hatred, yes - but cheering and celebrating death? I can't.

And if not being filled with hatred towards another human being makes me a "freeper" well then I guess nothing else I stand for matters

[Bluebear]

174. Nadine, Falwell said Lee deserved AIDS

He said I do, too. And that I caused 9/11

Nobody called you a freeper, but please understand why we do not mourn this walking horror show of a man.

[nadine_mn]

194. I am not asking that anyone mourn his death

I understand that Falwall said so many hateful things and promoted his hate to future generations, and I am not sorry that he has died....what I am commenting on is this idea of celebrating his death - that I struggle with.
I don't like seeing people stoop to that level of saying someone deserves to die and to rot in hell, and lets dance on his grave.
He said and did horrible things, and I strongly believe in karma....my goal is do everything I can to dispel his message of hate.

He will not be missed by any means, and no matter how horrible a person is, I personally cannot cheer that they die - I felt sorry for Saddam, and again not sad he is dead but not happy either.

[GrimReefa]

176. Green Day said it best

Ha ha you're dead
And I'm so happy
In loving memory
Of your demise
When your ship is going down
I'll go out and raid the town
Ha ha you're dead
Ha ha you're dead
Ha ha you're dead

Ha ha you're dead
The joke is over
You were an asshole
And now you're gone
As your ship is going down
I'll stop by to watch you drown
Ha ha you're dead
Ha ha you're dead
Ha ha you're dead



Keep a spot in Hell warm for me, Jerry!

[Hobarticus]

193. With a little Elvis Costello, for good measure...

Well I hope I don’t die too soon
I pray the lord my soul to save
Oh I’ll be a good boy, I’m trying so hard to behave
Because there’s one thing I know, I’d like to live
Long enough to savour
That’s when they finally put you in the ground
I’ll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down

[Cronopio]

223. Yeah, I can imagine that's how it all started for Jerry, too.

Sitting with his family back in 1940s Lynchburg, hearing his dad say, "Man, am I glad that nigger is finally dead."

Then sharing a good, brotherly laugh about it while getting addicted to that warm, superior, powerful feeling.

[Forkboy]

279. LMAO

I hope all your future posts are that funny!

Welcome to DU!

[Jawja]

178. I for one am not ashamed that

I celebrate that he is dead for my country - it is so much better for my country that this hypocritical asshole is dead.

[malaise]

179. I suggest they read Hitchens comments

on Anderson Cooper last night.

COOPER: Author and outspoken atheist Christopher Hitchens is about as far from Jerry Falwell in his beliefs as one could get. Christian fundamentalists are a major target of his new book, "God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything." He joins me now from Raleigh, North Carolina.

Christopher, I'm not sure if you believe in heaven, but, if you do, do you think Jerry Falwell is in it?

CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "VANITY FAIR": No. And I think it's a pity there isn't a hell for him to go to.

COOPER: What is it about him that brings up such vitriol?

HITCHENS: The empty life of this ugly little charlatan proves only one thing, that you can get away with the most extraordinary offenses to morality and to truth in this country if you will just get yourself called reverend. Who would, even at your network, have invited on such a little toad to tell us that the attacks of September the 11th were the result of our sinfulness and were God's punishment if they hadn't got some kind of clerical qualification?

People like that should be out in the street, shouting and hollering with a cardboard sign and selling pencils from a cup. The whole consideration of this -- of this horrible little person is offensive to very, very many of us who have some regard for truth and for morality, and who think that ethics do not require that lies be told to children by evil old men, that we're -- we're not told that people who believe like Falwell will be snatched up into heaven, where I'm glad to see he skipped the rapture, just found on the floor of his office, while the rest of us go to hell.

How dare they talk to children like this? How dare they raise money from credulous people on their huckster-like (INAUDIBLE) radio stations, and fly around in private jets, as he did, giggling and sniggering all the time at what he was getting away with?

Transcript here
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0705/15/acd.01.html

[Cronopio]

220. I suggest you not use Two-Faced Hitchens as a spokesman for the cause.

Seeing as he supports certain lies (Operation Iraqi Freedom, Clinton as rapist) while attacking other liars, namely anyone in the clergy.

Like many people on this thread, he appears to think that he can invest in The Hate Game while remaining above and outside of it.

[Cobalt Violet]

181. I wish I could recommend this thread another 31 times.

I'm very upset that the top thread on the greatest pay is the one that blows sunshine up farwell's ass.

[krkaufman]

182. I'm sure there was rejoicing when the world learned of Hitler's death, as well.

:) Godwin's Law, you know.

[Stuckinthebush]

183. Thank you, Lee!

The hand wringers are maddening. I guess there is a lot of societally instilled guilt in telling the truth about a person after he or she has died.

There is no other way to say it...Falwell was evil and his death is a good thing for our society.

[RoccoR5955]

186. I don't have to visit an AIDS hospice.

I witnessed it first hand when my brother died.
He died from being infected with a bad transfusion.

When Falwell and Reagan, and the rest said that AIDS was a 'gay cancer,' and that 'gays deserve this,' I was, and still am livid. MY BROTHER WAS NOT GAY, he just got a bad transfusion, and these bastards had no compassion for them. I saw his body dwindle to nothingness. It was awful. Not as awful as how I wish for the people who stopped funding for research into AIDS for WHATEVER reason. I have no compassion for them, because in my book, they are not people, not Christians, but lower than paramecium on the evolutionary scale.

[L0oniX]

187. Pat Robertson (ass carrot) is far worse than Fartwell

I hope he dies a painful death.

:mad:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

286. See my sigline (built just for the concern trolls!) -nt

[progressoid]

188. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

Just checking.

[Buzz Clik]

189. Just fucking great.

You justify people acting like assholes because someone is dying from AIDS. And you insult those who don't support your point of view.

:puke:

[kegler14]

197. No need to run..

I've already seen people dying of AIDS (and other cruel diseases as well). I can't stand Jerry Falwell but I still think some of the infantile reactions here and elsewhere are simply despicable.

This could even end up being a bad thing. Jerry's power had been on the wane for quite a while, but now his younger sons come in and take over a new church building and a growing Christian university. Some of the folks who just dimissed Jerry's nutty ramblings might actually listen to the sons.

[brg5001]

198. Benito Mussolini's death was CELEBRATED and applauded

The people dragged his corpse through the streets! Get it? Ding, dong, the wicked witch is DEAD.

Jerry Falwell did tremendous harm and we MUST NOT HOLD BACK about how he regularly scapegoated progressives for our nation's most serious problems. By advocating a wholesale rollback to some ideal antebellum place in time that never existed, he undermined the most cherished rights and advances, whipping up a general religiously-based hatred toward minorities, women, gays and lesbians, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, atheists and even fellow Christians who did not share his twisted radical worldview. God was perfectly happy with slavery, environmental degradation, lynching and Jim Crow, ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, the military-industrial complex, and a Boss Hogg approach to worker's rights, but if GAY PEOPLE AREN'T BEING HUNTED DOWN AND BURNED AT THE STAKE, then God is angry at the United States and that's why our nation has problems.

You don't like that I'm absolutely thrilled at this man's demise and can't wait to tell the world why? TOO BAD! You think it makes me seem uncharitable or unkind? TOO BAD! We are ANGRY and we have every right to stop the current effort to santize and glofiy Falwell's record.

Last night, Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee called Falwell "a great man and a great influence for America and for Christ."

Oh, no he wasn't! And Mike Huckabee is a giant INSECT for saying that.

The man was a monster and his followers would love nothing more than to whitewash his vile comments and treat him as some sort of great holy messenger of God. HE WAS NOT! And we who oppose Falwell's hateful and un-Christian rhetoric should have no reserve about expressing why we are thrilled that at least one booming voice of hatred and bigotry is gone FOREVER. This man claimed to speak for God, yet as Randi Rhodes pointed out yesterday, his quotes mirror Osama bin Laden's in content and temperament.

Is this unplanned eruption of glee and utter delight to be disdained? NO! We are not going to be silent and we are not going to accept any shame from the political movement inspired by this slug and others of his mindset. FUCK FALWELL AND THE HORSE HE RODE IN ON. Have a blessed day.

:rant:

[TriMetFan]

206. "Who's going to help America.......

find its moral center now that there's no
longer a lying, crooked, blackmailing, anti-intellectual, censorious,
fake-doctorate-holding, libelous, gay-bashing, tax-cheating, fraudulent,
debt-ridden,
doomsaying, anti-Semitic, self-aggrandizing, racist, theocratic son of a
bootlegger to do it for us?" --Ludickid on the death of Jerry Falwell.

[TriMetFan]

207. Who's going to help America

find its moral center now that there's no
longer a lying, crooked, blackmailing, anti-intellectual, censorious,
fake-doctorate-holding, libelous, gay-bashing, tax-cheating, fraudulent,
debt-ridden,
doomsaying, anti-Semitic, self-aggrandizing, racist, theocratic son of a
bootlegger to do it for us?" --Ludickid on the death of Jerry Falwell.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

208. what I love about Jerry:

This POS coddled criminals, frauds and crimes within the moral majority to such a degree, that they were scaring people off. At the same time creditors, suppliers and even several of their lawfirms filed huge liens and were preparing lawsuits against them.

Jerry's response? Our job is finished, society is changed, and I don't wish to be a lightning rod for others in our movement.

yeah. Membership was 1/100 of its numbers just a few years before. Even the most braindead religious idiot saw that the moral majority was a scam, a way to enrich Jerry and his favorites, while screwing the members.

Rev. Moon saved Liberty U. from horrific mismangement and fraud.
And some billionaire paid off $70 millions in bad debt that Jerry had run up.

THAT IS THE LEGACY of one of the most evil people in US politics. A liar, a cheat, a scum, with a smile.

[Mad_Dem_X]

209. Thank you

Just because the man is dead, I for one am not going to pretend he was a good person. He was evil and vile and said some despicable things while he was alive. I'm not going to throw a party now that he's gone, but I'm not sorry.

[Dave From Canada]

214. K, I'm back. Most people aren't offended by the celebrating, however, it is definitely unseemly.

[kid a]

215. please recommend this honest post...truth hurts sometimes nt

[iverglas]

217. congratulations, Madspirit, on the better world you now have

Not all that much better, but every little bit helps.

Have a glass of bubbly on me.

Hating someone for whatever they are is despicable.

Hating someone for the evil they do is the duty of all decent people.

[LostinVA]

233. Your last two sentences say it all

[Name removed]

221. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hlthe2b]

224. 'Feeling the love in your post....

Yes, I definitely do.....











:sarcasm: How about we all move on to other things....? Just a thought.

[DrunkenMaster]

225. no kidding, talk about selfrighteous bullshite

What a pathetic use of thinly hidden hypocrisy.

Of course, MadSpirit's rage and anger, while I have taken issue with it from time to time, is obviously the result of her direct experience with Falwell's type: hate-filled, hideous Xtian goons who hurt people terribly. Falwell deserves all of Madspirit's scorn and more.

[LostinVA]

231. Good post

[Name removed]

234. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrunkenMaster]

238. "revels as a victim"?

Nice use of the rightwing buzzphrase propaganda. Yup, all those people out there who have been mistreated and abused by Xtian fascists like Falwell are just "reveling in their victim" status.

Way to go, you freedom fighter, you. You truly are a voice for the oppressed.

[Madspirit]

267. Blaming the Victim

It is indeed Right Wing bile spewing. ...and shrinks call it a pathology of it's own.

http://www.ibiblio.org/rcip/invuln.html

"Secondary wounding occurs because people who have never been hurt sometimes have difficulty understanding and being patient with people who have been hurt. It also occurs because people who have never confronted human tragedy are sometimes unable to comprehend the lives of those in occupations that involve dealing with human suffering or mass casualties on a daily basis.

Some people simply are not strong enough to accept the negatives in life. When such individuals confront a trauma survivor, they may reject or disparage the survivor because that individual represents the parts of life they have chosen to deny.

[iverglas]

237. Falwell polluted the public discourse

and I can't say that

You madspirit
are one of the most hateful people on this board

does much better.

[DrunkenMaster]

241. if "polluting the public discourse" is the worst

thing you blame Falwell for it's no wonder you don't get it -- you're freaking clueless.

A great case of blaming the victim.

[iverglas]

243. you may need to read that again

and my other posts in this thread, and in mondo joe's thread on the topic. I think you have misunderstood.

To dispel any doubts that might remain, I'll try to clarify.

Falwell polluted the public discourse. The person who said what I quoted, to Madspirit, polluted the public discourse. With vile, gratuitous invective. (I quoted it because it may not be visible for long, and I didn't want people who came after to be wondering what the fuss was about.)

I think your comment:

Way to go, you freedom fighter, you. You truly are a voice for the oppressed.

Was right on the money.

[DrunkenMaster]

244. if you can't judge the difference we are lost

to equate the two is moral idiocy of the highest caliber. How shameful. Here is a little more on that "discourse" that Falwell helped create:

http://www.outproud.org/article_suicide.html

Suicides among Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, & Transgender Youth

In 1989, the United States Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) issued its "Report on the Secretary's Task Force on Youth Suicide," which found that "A majority of suicide attempts by homosexuals occur during their youth, and gay youth are 2 to 3 times more likely to attempt suicide than other young people. They may comprise up to 30 percent of (the estimated 5,000) completed youth suicides annually. (5) The report recommended that "mental health and youth service agencies can provide acceptance and support for young homosexuals, train their personnel on gay issues, and provide appropriate gay adult role models; schools can protect gay youth from abuse from their peers and provide accurate information about homosexuality in health curricula; families should accept their child and work toward educating themselves about the development and nature of homosexuality"

According to Kevin Berrill, Director of the Anti-Violence Project of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force at the time of the report,s release stated, "The increased risk of suicide facing these youth is linked to growing up in a society that teaches them to hide and to hate themselves. We welcome this report and hope it will lead to action that will save lives."

Initially, however, the report was suppressed by the Bush administration under pressure from right-wing groups and by conservatives in Congress. After the findings, William Dannemeyer, who was at the time a conservative Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives from California, called for then-president Bush to "dismiss from public service all persons still employed who concocted this homosexual pledge of allegiance and sealed the lid on these misjudgments for good." HHS Secretary Louis Sullivan wrote in a letter to Dannemeyer that the study "undermined the institution of the family." (6)

The findings of the report were leaked to the press and finally released. Other studies confirm these findings. Gary Remafedi, Assistant Professor of Pediatrics, University of Minnesota, and author of Death by Denial: Studies of Attempted and Completed Suicide in Gay and Lesbian and Bisexual Youth, found in a 1991 study of 150 gay and lesbian youths in Minneapolis, more than 30% said they had attempted suicide at least once as a teenager.

The youths who are at the greatest risk for suicide are the ones who are least likely to reveal their sexual orientation to anyone. Suicide may be a way of making sure that no one ever knows. It's homophobia that's killing these kids. (7)

[iverglas]

247. what on earth are you on about?

The equivalency posited was between Jerry Falwell and Madspirit, by someone calling her "hateful".

I found that shameful. Forgive me if I understated the case.

Have you managed to read my other posts yet? Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=899211&mesg_id=899353

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=899211&mesg_id=899613

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=899211&mesg_id=900263

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=899122&mesg_id=900682

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=892742&mesg_id=900930

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=892742&mesg_id=901056

I suspect that we have managed not to cross paths before, and you therefore know nothing about me. Should you care to do a little research, you'll find that Madspirit and I do know, and like and respect, each other, and there's not much we disagree on. And that I have not a shred of tolerance for hatemongers, or their apologists, or the bashers or belittlers of their victims, and I support prohibitions on hate speech for reasons that I have articulated at length and quite competently at DU on many occasions.

I really just don't know what the problem is here, but oh well.

[DrunkenMaster]

249. I apologize for the misunderstanding

I believed you to be attacking Madspirit -- like others in this thread -- for her anger toward Falwell. It seemed as you were equivocating them: again, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Hence, my poster-name, eh?

[iverglas]

250. I'm not infrequently too dry

-- to some, cryptic. Comes of being Canadian. Hey, hence my username. ;) (And no, I won't explain it!)

Righteous hatred is a force of great good in the world.

And yup, I get to say what's righteous.

[DrunkenMaster]

253. thanks!

My bad, totally. My post below pretty much lays it all out too.

[Madspirit]

248. He's the freak

He's the one who called me a "man hating idiot" because I posted about choice. He's a total pig. I know who has more friends on this board.
Lee

[InvisibleTouch]

226. Who's ashamed?

I've never seen anything wrong with being pleased when those who deserve it, get what's coming to them. It's no more (and probably quite a lot less) than they would do to us. We're not required to be saints/doormats.

[DrunkenMaster]

235. I agree 100%

and am disgusted by DU posters who respond with idiocies like "Well, don't be angry when the freepers mock Paul Wellstone's death." What a f**king load of horseshite: Paul Wellstone was a fine individual who sought always to improve the lives of American citizens regardless of their race, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Do these idiots truly believe that we can't exercise our capacity for critical thought and condemn those who do harm? That ALL people, regradless of their actions -- crimes or heroisms -- deserve banal, sanctimonious tautologies to memorialize them?

It is this f**king simple: mocking the death of Paul Wellstone was a hideous thing to do because Wellstone was fine human being who, as far as I now, never tried to ostracize, condemn, mock or abuse any person because of who they were born to be. Falwell, on the other hand, was a rotten pigf**king piece of excrement who helped destroy the lives of arguably millions of people because of who they were born to be.

Those of you who disagree with Madspirit should take her advice and visit a hospice, or better yet, go speak with the parent of a young gay or lesbian teenager who committed suicide because of the way they were treated by people influenced by Falwell and his sycophantic toadies. There are millions of those parents in this nation -- gay and lesbian teens commit suicide for those very same reasons more frequently than any other demographic -- and I will bet you could even find them on your street. Look in their eyes and then try to blame MadSpirit and the rest of us for this thread.

Your "compassion" is the idiocy that allows these monsters to enchain us. Wake the f**k up: they are killing us and we not only help them do it but attack those who speak of it. If we cannot separate good from evil and speak the truth about both we are lost.

[iverglas]

256. and here's a bit that slays me

When there is talk about suppressing speech -- like Imus, and Opie & Anthony, and anybody else who says things with the intent to incite hatred or, at the very least (and least believable), complete disregard for whether what they say will incite hatred -- it's always met with "the best way to deal with bad speech is more speech".

Well, here ya go. Speech. Speech that conveys the message that inciting hatred against people because of who they are is intolerable. Speech uttered by *people*, who have emotions. Emotions, not just facts and logic, are what cause people to actually do things, and I don't want to live in a world where people don't have an emotional response to evil.

[ItNerd4life]

255. Where do you draw the line?

How about people who believe abortion is evil? They believe every abortion is murder? Are you then inspid if you support abortion?

How about you go to an abortion clinic and watch the babies being torn out of the womb (arms, head, legs, and all). It isn't just a mass of cells, at 3.5 months there is a shape to the body. (I still feel the pain after seeing the pictures of my child who was dead and had to be aborted.)

I'm not ashamed of people who support abortion after 3 months and I would not celebrate their deaths. I just wish people were a little more open minded and caring and didn't hate other people just because they disagree with them.

Side note: I do believe in abortion up to 3 months for the mothers sake, after that I think the baby should be born. But I don't hate people for believing differently, even though I think it borders on murder.

[iverglas]

257. how about: with your post?

A seething mass of ugly nonsense it is. Line drawn.

[Bluebear]

261. Indeed. nt

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

259. You Should Be Required To Visit The Hospice And Ask The Patient If They Respect Your Grave Dancing.

How bout that.

[Madspirit]

263. Actually I volunteer at one.

They appreciate me just fine. What do YOU do to make mankind better?
Lee

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

265. Didn't Ask If They Appreciate You. I Asked If The Condone And Support The Grave Dancing.

Since you work at one, would you mind asking a few if they consider it appropriate or not?

[Madspirit]

268. Last Night

They were celebrating.

Once again, what do you do to improve the world. Just curious.

This thread has 92 recommendations, just btw. So bother someone else.
Lee

[Moochy]

273. Maybe he should tend to his own OP that is getting slammed as bullshit

Oh but theres just abandoned sub-threads over there.. too much truth.

[Madspirit]

274. He just makes

He makes me sleepy sometimes. Pedants do that...<g>

I saw his thread. :rofl:

...and thank-you, just btw.
Lee

[iverglas]

290. hey, let's not be taking gratuitous swipes

at pedants.

;)

[enough already]

266. His death is a good start

The world needs to be rid of all fundie fascists.

[greyghost]

269. I'm looking forward...

to Pat Robertson joining him post haste!

[L. Coyote]

270. HELP list the BUSH/CHENEY scandals, PLEASE ... list just toooo long

This is just too much work for less than a group.

Yesterday was a GREAT DAY for Falwell TO DIE. Or, the Buffalo Jump to Hell.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x899312

"You have to give America's most-hated Christian a lot of credit. Even in taking his final fall (while alive), to the floor in his office at oxymoronic "Liberty University" in solitude, he pulled off a thorough going coup like noone else could have mustered. Like the lead buffalo of a large herd, he caused a massive shift in direction as he went down. Except, in this case, the herd that followed him in his descent wasn't his own--he took the opposition herd down with him, over the buffalo jump to hell. .... "

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

284. Drats! Can't recommend anymore. But sure can kick.

[Madspirit]

289. Kicking is Good...thank...n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

291. You're welcome. Ooops.. did that kick it again?

[JuniperLea]

285. Far better than you or I have slammed a man upon his death...

"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it."
Mark Twain

"His mother should have thrown him away and kept the stork."
Mae West

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go."
Oscar Wilde

"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."
Clarence Darrow

[Truthseeker013]

287. Falwell...To Everyone Ashamed of our Celebration

Madspirit, I have been to several AIDS hospices, back when I was healthy enough to volunteer. I've seen too many people suffer, and I know the suffering that man rained upon gays. I also know that there were words in the book he so fervently believed that he spoke to when he preached.

"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

[Herman74]

292. How Many People Here Celebrated When Saddam was Executed?

WELL?

I for one did not.

And if you didn't celebrate then, why do some of you celebrate now? After all, Saddam caused far more damage than Falwell ever did, his invasions of Iran and Kuwait leading to the deaths of at least a million people, his use of poison gas being cruel wickedness beyond compare.

And who are some of the people you Democrats admire? Martin Luther King? Could you see him celebrating Falwell's death? How about Gandhi? Or Albert Schweitzer? Or Mother Theresa? And if you can't quite envision these people celebrating Falwell's death, then why do you?

Don't allow yourselves to sink to the Republican (Freeper) level. Hold yourselves to a higher standard.

[murloc]

296. You are free to celebrate anyones death

Its still pretty much a free country afterall.

However, please understand if I think a little less of anyone who stoops to that level.

Its just the way I was brought up.

I've never celebrated anyones death, and I sure as hell won't compromise my morals over someone like Falwell.

But if celebrating death makes you feel good, its not my place to stand in your way.

[Madspirit]

301. Yup

Me and the 92 people who voted for this thread and the others up-thread who said they tried to vote for it but were too late....we're EVIL I tell you...EVIL. When I pick up a bibles my hands burn. I wish I could brush my hair but the no reflection thing makes it kinda hard....

On the other hand I've never beaten a young gay man to a bloody pulp, strung him up to a barbed wire fence and left him to bleed out over several hours. There are over 1000 hate crimes a year against MY kind. Jerry Falwell thought we should be dead. DEAD. ...and in Nazi Germany, they did stick us in ovens too...just an aside. Jerry Falwell claimed WE die from AIDS because of who we love. Jerry Falwell thought 9/11 was Okey Dokey because America harbors gays. Jerry Falwell not only would have been perfectly happy with MY death those who believe the way he does often make it happen. No actual Falwells were hurt in the making of these threads.

"The opportunity to be threatened, humiliated and to live in fear of being beaten to death is the only 'special right' our culture bestows on homosexuals."
- Diane Carman, Denver Post

Do you want to ask me now exactly HOW important your opinion of me is? I'm not the one here who should be ashamed. You are not MY ally.


Lee
___________________________________
If the apocalypse comes, beep me.
Buffy
___________________________________

[murloc]

305. Your response puzzles me.

If someone has called you evil, please direct me to that thread and I'll come to your defense.



You wrote alot of words to describe what you call as "your kind". I think "a year against MY kind" was your exact words.

Let me tell you friend..we are ALL the same kind. The HUMAN kind.

Thats what the Falwells, the haters, the racist, the nazis, the gay bashers all fail to realize. We are all the same kind. These people seek to divide us and sadly they've been quite successful over the eons and today.

These people, these terrible people that we are all aware of, DO seek and entertain joy in the death and suffering of people like yourself.

People like Falwell, like Phelps, take joy and pleasure when a Gay man dies from Aids. They smile and dance when Aids claims another victim. When a gay man is beaten and killed for sport, these bastards smile. I find that despicable.

I only feel that when we emulate their behavior, and take joy in the deaths of those that bind us, those that hate us, that we only lower ourselves.

If we are going to emulate people, lets not emulate those that hate us.

Let me address your final sentence.
"Do you want to ask me now exactly HOW important your opinion of me is? I'm not the one here who should be ashamed. You are not MY ally."

I won't ask because it is irrelevant, and because your lengthy response answers the question.

I am not sure why you did respond if you care not one whit of what another thinks. Perhaps you do care more than you realize...even if only a tiny amount. Its a natural human emotion.

While I do find taking joy in another's death distasteful and beneath us, and you may not want me as your ally, nonetheless I AM your ally. None of us are perfect and one flaw does not make one a bad person.

[NaturalHigh]

299. I think I'll pass on your offer.

You're entitled to your opinion and to celebrate Falwell's death all you want. I'm entitled to say that you are no better than freepers who celebrate the death of liberals.

[Madspirit]

302. Yup

Me and the 92 people who voted for this thread and the others up-thread who said they tried to vote for it but were too late....we're EVIL I tell you...EVIL. When I pick up a bible my hands burn. I wish I could brush my hair but the no reflection thing makes it kinda hard....

On the other hand I've never beaten a young gay man to a bloody pulp, strung him up to a barbed wire fence and left him to bleed out over several hours. There are over 1000 hate crimes a year against MY kind. Jerry Falwell thought we should be dead. DEAD. ...and in Nazi Germany, they did stick us in ovens too...just an aside. Jerry Falwell claimed WE die from AIDS because of who we love. Jerry Falwell thought 9/11 was Okey Dokey because America harbors gays. Jerry Falwell not only would have been perfectly happy with MY death those who believe the way he does often make it happen. No actual Falwells were hurt in the making of these threads.

"The opportunity to be threatened, humiliated and to live in fear of being beaten to death is the only 'special right' our culture bestows on homosexuals."
- Diane Carman, Denver Post

Do you want to ask me now exactly HOW important your opinion of me is? I'm not the one here who should be ashamed. You are not MY ally.


Lee
___________________________________
If the apocalypse comes, beep me.
Buffy
___________________________________

[NaturalHigh]

312. You're right about one thing...

I'm not your ally. I don't hate. That's the difference between you and me. Since I'm a Baptist (and I think I recall a comment from you about Baptists), I guess you hate me too. That's your business, of course.

By the way, I'm willing to bet that nobody here has beaten or tortured anyone because of their sexual orientation. Not that that subject has anything to do with my original post, of course. I merely stated that people who are celebrating Falwell's death are no better than freepers celebrating the death of liberals, which is equally repulsive. However, I recognize your right to espouse all the hate you want. I just refuse to congratulate you for it or agree with you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

300. Been there done that

and Lee... I do not celebrate Hitler's death either, and my dad ended up in Mexico due to the Hitler travel plan.

Fifty of my relatives died at the hands of the SS, directly died that is

I cannot bring myself to hate good ol' Adolph, or celebrate the fact that he blew his brain out

You know why?

Hate is corrosive

Hate the message, but not the man, if you wish...

It is healthier in the long run,

After all Jerry Falwell will not be the last one.

Also you should celebrate that in spite of all his corrosive efforts, yuo can post here, and tell me you are gay. 20, even 10 years ago that was not posible

I'd say Jerry has in many ways failed

That is what you should celebrate

:-)

[Madspirit]

303. I thought

I thought Hitler poisoned himself. He shot himself?

It's the people "correcting" our behavior who have made this go on so long and made it go so far. If we had just gotten venting out...no "tsk tsk"...there wouldn't be 422 thousand threads about it now.

My shrink said it's not at all unhealthy...a little venting about this. It only got obsessive because there is an unfeeling Pollyanna at every turn trying to shame us...pretending to be the feeling ones. Kind of like the Republicans pretending to be the "Values" people when what they really represent is a total lack of depth and compassion and empathy.

I absolutely am not talking about you. I can tell by your message you really are at the place you claim rather than just being a finger-wagging pedant trying to shame true victims of this horrible man because they don't think our struggle for LIFE is as important as the shit on their shoes.

If it wasn't against the rules here to call certain people out... MOST of the very people who have followed us from thread to thread with their nasty little fingers in our faces are the very people who are the ugliest most of time. They are the ones who really don't give a shit about anyone's struggle and they do most of the victim blaming and shaming that goes on here. So I promise, you I don't consider that way. I also promise that if we had not been put in a position of having to defend ourselves, this would have been over yesterday, early on.

Thanks for being a True caring person.
Lee

[nadinbrzezinski]

304. Yes he shot himself

he also took poison, but he was such a coward he shot himself

By the way talk to your shrink about levels of hate

And yes, I have taken care of AIDs patients... some with quite persistent and antibiotic resistnat TB... hell I have gone to bat to get those patients into an ER, over the head of the local resident who is afraid of getting infected

But seriously, hating the man is not healthy, and try to celebrate just how much he failed... im spite of his best efforts... and we both know they have tried HARD

Here you go from Wiki

Some witnesses later reported hearing a loud gunshot at around 15:30 (the Goebbels' young son is said to have declared, "A direct hit!" thinking it was a bomb overhead). After waiting a few minutes, Hitler's valet, Heinz Linge, with Bormann at his side, opened the door to the study. Linge later stated he immediately noted a scent of burned almonds in the small study, a common observation made in the presence of prussic acid, a form of cyanide. The Hitlers were both sitting on a small sofa, Eva on the left, Adolf to the right. Eva's body slumped away from Adolf's. Hitler appeared to have shot himself at right temple, with an exit wound towards the top, left side of his head, with a 7.65 mm pistol which lay at his feet. Blood was dripping from Adolf's temple/chin and had made a large stain on the right arm of the sofa and pool on the floor/carpet. Eva had no visible physical wounds and Linge assumed she had poisoned herself.

Forgot link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Adolf_Hitler

[Initech]

310. I'm not ashamed of the celebration, I think the guy was an uber-douchebag.

But however, I think that by celebrating his death, we are drawing more attention to him. We should have just said "oh" and then gone about our business. We shouldn't be paying any more attention to the asshole than is necessary. I'll probably have the same reaction when god smites Pat Robertson and David Duke. Now Bush Sr. on the other hand, I will be celebrating his eminent demise.

[wtmusic]

313. If you want to sink to Falwell's level that's certainly your choice

Celebrating Falwell's death implies:

1) You're glad he's dead
2) Unless your opinion magically changed the moment he died, that you wished he was dead -- that he deserved to die -- beforehand
3) Unless you're a completely hypocritical wuss you would kill him if you were alone in a room with him, with a gun

Kind of highlights the hypocrisy of your statement if you're given the choice to decide, doesn't it?

The fact that he was a truly despicable human being, that his opinions were abhorrent, does not sentence him to death. Let's pretend for a moment we're above that. :eyes: