Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Of Actions and Consequences, Torture and Troops

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 02:53 PM
Original message
Of Actions and Consequences, Torture and Troops
Link to original: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051507A.shtml

Of Actions and Consequences, Torture and Troops
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Columnist

Tuesday 15 May 2007

The most painful thing for the inmates there were the cries of the people being tortured. One day, they brought sheets to cover the cell in order for no one to see anything. They began torturing one of them, and we could hear what was happening. We listened as his soul cracked.

- Former inmate of Abu Ghraib


There was an ambush outside Baghdad a few days ago, yet another accent in Iraq's ceaseless symphony of carnage. Little about it was distinctive at first, until word got out that three American soldiers attached to the attacked convoy were missing. The Islamic State of Iraq, described in American media reports as an "al Qaeda front group," subsequently claimed to be holding these missing soldiers as hostages. Pentagon officials confirmed their claim, and some 4,000 troops have since fanned out to search for the abducted troops.

Recall, for context, our national debate over torture, renditions, and the rights of prisoners captured in the "War on Terror." Recall the secret memos, endorsed by then-White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales, that slapped aside Geneva Convention prohibitions against the torture of prisoners. Recall Abu Ghraib, and the shameful photos documenting the absence of those prohibitions in living, bleeding color.

It was theoretical at the time, that debate, an exercise in nationalist rhetoric and sound-bite showmanship. Those who voiced warnings, who tried to remind us that actions have consequences, hardly made a dent. Abu Ghraib was exposed, and we were outraged, and then we forgot. The mangled morality of state-sanctioned brutality continued as mere fodder for this theoretical argument, and the horrors within those faraway prison walls simply got folded into the main.

It isn't theoretical anymore. Three American soldiers are hostages today, and God help them if their captors decide to play by our rules.

Will these three soldiers be taken by their captors to another country, to some faraway facility filled with the infrastructure of applied agony? Will they be handed over to men who know precisely how to make a nerve ending shriek, who extract screams from flesh like miners of misery? There is precedent if this happens; our government has been doing it for years. Bush's people send prisoners to far-flung nations, where they are tortured without mercy, because that theoretical debate made this an acceptable practice.

Will these three soldiers be beaten, raped, electrocuted and murdered? Will their religious faith be used as a weapon of humiliation against them? There is precedent if this happens; our government cleared a path for the atrocities of Abu Ghraib, for the murder and rape and torture and humiliation which took place there, and it was that theoretical debate which made this an acceptable practice.

Those who tried to warn the Bush administration about the inherent dangers of mistreating prisoners used images just like these to make their point. If prisoners are allowed to be tortured, if their faith is humiliated and their bodies savaged, a terrible price will be paid. It won't be paid by comfortable politicians who blithely red-line the strictures of our common morality while sending troops off to war. It will be paid by those troops, American soldiers struggling to survive the application of wretched policy. To allow torture is to accept torture completely, especially torture as retaliation.

If the enshrinement of torture as a legitimate tactic had been inspired solely by fear, anger, desperation or a desire to defend the country at all costs, one might be able to understand. That wasn't the case here. The decision to make torture an acceptable policy was born, first and foremost, from the mercenary priorities of a few powerful Bush administration officials. Blowing up Geneva, ripping up rights, defying all the rules, all this was just another necessary step along the path towards the establishment of the Supreme Executive, the termination of oversight, and the wilting of any separation of powers.

Put more bluntly, three American soldiers may be suffering the torments of Hell because some of Bush's people made a power play. They pushed the limits, and then dismissed those limits out of hand, in order to show that they could, and because nobody stopped them. Now, three soldiers who played no part in crafting those decisions face the grim results of those decisions. Those three troops do not in any way whatsoever deserve this fate, nor even the mere possibility of this fate.

In exactly 616 days, the oath of office will be solemnly sworn by a new president, bringing a final conclusion to the gruesome phenomenon that is this administration. If we, as a nation, learn but one lesson from what we have seen and endured these last years, it must be this: actions have consequences. If the foundations of basic decency are allowed to be razed, if the rights and protections which define us are allowed to be erased, prepare to reap the whirlwind.

Light a candle, lift a prayer, make a vow, do whatever suits you best sometime today. Do so in the hope that this nation, this world, and those three soldiers, may survive the consequences of the inexcusable and deadly actions which have delivered us to this place.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
quispquake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. The problem is, Bush & his ilk DON'T CARE...
As long as the money is rolling in, and it's not THEIR kids being tortured (hello Mitt...five Iraq age boys hunh???), they really don't care...They're fucking sociopaths...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's the sad, cold truth of this matter
They don't care what happens to the troops, just look at Walter Reed.

But if - God forbid - our troops are tortured, they'll use it as justification they were right to torture them in the first place. The backwash long ago dehumanized every Iraqi, and they'll scream for even more torture chambers. Common sense concepts like cause and effect never enters the equation for them.

K & R.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. It was treason to disregard the Geneva Conventions.
Now, all of us are in danger. How much must we suffer before these people are stopped?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. Recommended n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. I find the word "hostages" an interesting one being used to
describe the capture of US soldiers. The media doesn't use the word "hostage" to describe the detainees in Gitmo, the many secret prisons in Iraq, etc. If this is, as described by the bush cabal and others, a war on terror should not the word "capture" be used to describe these situations instead of the, imo, misleading "kidnap" in reference only to US soldiers?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mediawatch Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. No we should not be in Iraq, we never should have gone there
and yes I weep for our men and women and all Iraqi people who just wanted to live peacefully, but their lives cut short.

However;
These "al Qaeda" types have been around and killing us for years. Unfortunately we have made it easier for them. How? just by being on their land.



April 1983: 17 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut.

October 1983: 241 dead at the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut.

December 1983: five dead at the U.S. embassy in Kuwait.

January 1984: the president of the American University of Beirut killed.

April 1984: 18 dead near a U.S. airbase in Spain.

September 1984: 16 dead at the U.S. embassy in Beirut (again).

December 1984: Two dead on a plane hijacked to Tehran.

June 1985: One dead on a plane hijacked to Beirut.

After a let-up, the attacks then restarted: Five and 19 dead in Saudi Arabia in 1995 and 1996, 224 dead at the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in August 1998 and 17 dead on the USS Cole in Yemen in October 2000.

Simultaneously, the murderous assault of militant Islam also took place on U.S. soil:

July 1980: an Iranian dissident killed in the Washington, D.C. area.

August 1983: a leader of the Ahmadiyya sect of Islam killed in Canton, Mich.

August 1984: three Indians killed in a suburb of Tacoma, Wash.

September 1986: a doctor killed in Augusta, Ga.

January 1990: an Egyptian freethinker killed in Tucson, Ariz.

November 1990: a Jewish leader killed in New York.

February 1991: an Egyptian Islamist killed in New York.

January 1993: two CIA staff killed outside agency headquarters in Langley, Va.

February 1993: Six people killed at the World Trade Center.

March 1994: an Orthodox Jewish boy killed on the Brooklyn Bridge.

February 1997: a Danish tourist killed on the Empire State building.

October 1999: 217 passengers killed on an EgyptAir flight near New York City.

In all, 800 persons lost their lives in the course of attacks by militant Islam on Americans before September 2001 - more than killed by any other enemy since the Vietnam War. (Further, this listing does not include the dozens more Americans in Israel killed by militant Islamic terrorists.)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Here you forgot one
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/3/newsid_4678000/4678707.stm

1988: US warship shoots down Iranian airliner

An American naval warship patrolling in the Persian Gulf has shot down an Iranian passenger jet after apparently mistaking it for an F-14 fighter.

All those on board the airliner - almost 300 people - are believed dead.

The plane, an Airbus A300, was making a routine flight from Bandar Abbas, in Iran, to Dubai in the United Arab Emirates.

The USS Vincennes had tracked the plane electronically and warned it to keep away. When it did not the ship fired two surface-to-air missiles, at least one of which hit the airliner.

Navy officials said the Vincennes' crew believed they were firing at an Iranian F14 jet fighter, although they had not confirmed this visually.

No survivors

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mediawatch Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. it sounded more like an accident to me
or I would have added it. Thanks for catching my mistake
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yea, Shock and Awe was an accident too n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mediawatch Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. no, that was planned
where have you been. Don't mean to sound rude but I thought we all knew that. Even so it was after 9/11. I thought I was specific in my post when I said that "al Qaeda" types killed and murdered us prior to 9/11 and abu Ghraib.
That was my only point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. If that is your real concern,
then why the fuck did the US attack Iraq? Ain't no AQ there. There is oil. Is that what you meant -- we kill people and take their shit and then they retaliate on occasion at our hypocrisy, lies and slaughter?

But I suppose Iraq does give Old Pitt an opportunity to discover torture and how 'people he knows and generally likes' might be "suffering the torments of Hell" all because of a really crappy President. :eyes:

The thing is...we've been torturing and training other people to torture for decades and funny, how it is, the 'hostages' they hold, like Eugene Hasenfuss, are usually very well treated in comparison to the way we treat them.

So the idea here is that torture is bad coz it might give the enemy license to torture us? Why not something simplier like GET THE FUCK OUT OF IRAQ AND AFGHIANSTAN!


This is what people in the US military who train torturers used to wear on their shoulders. I hope AQ doesn't find out about it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well, Will, you wrote what I've been thinking...unspeakable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. K&R n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. Abeer, Hadeel, Fakhriya and Qassim. Steven Green. Mrbush.
Heavy heart.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks to gonzales, bush, cheney and don't forget rumsfeld
and a collection of spineless Dems in the Congress, These three are now unlawful combatants and deserve no protection under law.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. Yes indeed, actions have consequences
But Bush, Cheney, Gonzalez, and their cohorts don't care one bit, because they see themselves as personally immune. I hope the whole lot of them are charged with war crimes as warranted by international law.

And I'm as concerned for the hundreds or thousands of innocent prisoners of ours whom we torture and/or murder as I am for our own American soldiers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-15-07 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. Kick for Falwell
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
18. morning kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
19. "In exactly 616 days, the oath of office will be solemnly sworn.." Sooner, we can hope.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
20. I just finished reading this on Truthout. Excellent, but I wonder if any of the 'true'
Americans will get the connection.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-16-07 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
21. .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC